Saab 9-5 Aero - Hybrid Turbo and 9000 Bottom End - 350 bhp
Discussion
AntiLagGC8 said:
Hi bud,
My car is a 99' RB5 Prodrive. The engine is fully forged with upgraded everything, fuel pump, injectors, front mount, Alcatek ECU (with launch control/anti-lag). Converting it to twin scroll really made the car for me, its now so responsive from just over 3k right up to over 7k. The twin scroll turbo just gives it a huge amount of flexibility and the lag is very little over 3.5k although below that it is still responsive in low gears but its pretty lazy until over 3.5k in 4th/5th.
When driven hard its very fast (for me!) and with the twin scroll its so exploitable although now slightly pointless because it goes so well that you really can't use it. I actually think it was more fun to drive hard at 247bhp with the much smaller TD04 turbo since you could work it hard for longer and more often. Still it sounds wonderful now (although no burble because its twin scroll) and punches hard when you get chance to use it.
It's mad that the 9-3 can nearly out drag a Gallardo. Your car is going to catch out some seriously quick cars!
This is where I'm going with mine; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww91Q9nVoY
I always wonder if there is a PH track-day? That could be a lot of fun!
Keep the posts coming!
Can see what you mean about not being able to use all the power, my mate's 97 Impreza Type-R was only running 300ish bhp but due to weighing under 1200kg (maybe same as yours) it was pretty mental, with the short ratio gearbox and all.My car is a 99' RB5 Prodrive. The engine is fully forged with upgraded everything, fuel pump, injectors, front mount, Alcatek ECU (with launch control/anti-lag). Converting it to twin scroll really made the car for me, its now so responsive from just over 3k right up to over 7k. The twin scroll turbo just gives it a huge amount of flexibility and the lag is very little over 3.5k although below that it is still responsive in low gears but its pretty lazy until over 3.5k in 4th/5th.
When driven hard its very fast (for me!) and with the twin scroll its so exploitable although now slightly pointless because it goes so well that you really can't use it. I actually think it was more fun to drive hard at 247bhp with the much smaller TD04 turbo since you could work it hard for longer and more often. Still it sounds wonderful now (although no burble because its twin scroll) and punches hard when you get chance to use it.
It's mad that the 9-3 can nearly out drag a Gallardo. Your car is going to catch out some seriously quick cars!
This is where I'm going with mine; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww91Q9nVoY
I always wonder if there is a PH track-day? That could be a lot of fun!
Keep the posts coming!
Edited by AeroBlack on Saturday 2nd January 20:47
Shadow R1 said:
Real shame e85 isn't available in the UK. Here's a vid of a 19t turbo'd 9-5 Aero running on e85, pushing nearly 400 bhp at the crank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt2WoCLzaS0
Bigphatcgar said:
It's great seeing what a Saab can do , my old 9-5 aero was nicknamed the dirty dog , was standard but did like upsetting other cars .
Many moons ago I had a 9000 Carlsson 2.3 plus a bleed valve , which gave it a little more go.
Haven't had chance to upset any cars yet, but Noobtune has a similar spec to what I'm tuning to and it keeps a c63 or v8 r8 honest from a rolling start.Many moons ago I had a 9000 Carlsson 2.3 plus a bleed valve , which gave it a little more go.
Carlssons are awesome pretty rare as well!
griffin dai said:
Tbh mate it was so long ago I can't remember the exact pump & sensor i fitted! Pretty sure it was a Wlabro 255 pump but there's a cheaper one availabe that's just as good, I think it's HTC or HNC? Probably more info on UKS about it.
I think I got my 3 bar map sensor from Neo Bros, could be a maptun one? There's others available though, id ask Karl though what he recommends using (same as the pump) as he'll be sorting the map.
I'd try and get it live mapped aswel, i did mine mainly by post so wasn't ideal and could never get it 100% bang on this way, but was lucky to have a quick live map sesh with Faero on a Saab meet to give it a little extra sparkle. (60-100 dropped from 4.3 to 3.8s then with some thinners in the mix, so was well worth it)
Have a chat to Karl about thinners too, I haven't touched them on my v6 but used to add 8-10% mix into a tank of vpower and it made a big difference
I like the idea of thinners but I don't think the gearbox would!I think I got my 3 bar map sensor from Neo Bros, could be a maptun one? There's others available though, id ask Karl though what he recommends using (same as the pump) as he'll be sorting the map.
I'd try and get it live mapped aswel, i did mine mainly by post so wasn't ideal and could never get it 100% bang on this way, but was lucky to have a quick live map sesh with Faero on a Saab meet to give it a little extra sparkle. (60-100 dropped from 4.3 to 3.8s then with some thinners in the mix, so was well worth it)
Have a chat to Karl about thinners too, I haven't touched them on my v6 but used to add 8-10% mix into a tank of vpower and it made a big difference
Turns out, according to Noobtune that I don't need a Walbro fuel pump or new filter, however I do need some
Fuel Rail Washers for the Green Giant 465 cc Injectors. Do you have any idea where I could source these as Maptun are out of stock. Thanks
griffin dai said:
That's them, but $95 postage! Will drop Neos an email, thanks.Try Tim here mate, he might be able to get them?
http://www.sasautocustoms.co.uk/injectors/27-bosch...
^^^some tubular headers on there aswel
http://www.sasautocustoms.co.uk/injectors/27-bosch...
^^^some tubular headers on there aswel
griffin dai said:
Try Tim here mate, he might be able to get them?
http://www.sasautocustoms.co.uk/injectors/27-bosch...
^^^some tubular headers on there aswel
Thanks will give him a try, Noobtune said they should be available as cap head bolts, or hex head.http://www.sasautocustoms.co.uk/injectors/27-bosch...
^^^some tubular headers on there aswel
Tempted by tubular manifolds, but they're only needed when going for more than 350 bhp, to combine with a gt3071 type turbo.
Do you know whether a tubular would help the engine run more efficiently, and more importantly would it give the engine more of a raspy engine note? I remember fitting a tubular 4-2-1 manifold to my 1.8 Zetec Focus back in the day and it transformed the engine note.
Since first oil change from mineral running-in oil back to 'Genuine Dexos2 GM 5W-30', the engine is running much more efficiently. Just went for a big motorway run and averaged 34 mpg with a few WOT runs. It isn't even mapped yet so hoping it will be even better. I heard from various sources that the b234/235r hybrid is less efficient due to lower compression ratio, but this doesn't seem to be the case
.Edited by HybridAero on Sunday 3rd January 18:50
Standard manifolds are good for up to 500 mate so not really needed but they do look nice fitted! I was probably around 480 when I scrapped mine, had a tubular from Tim ready to fit but sacked it in the end and just changed cars, would have been a fair bit over 500 then though
I'm sure a couple 9-3's on UKS have fitted the tubular with their 19t's but not sure how much extra oomph you'll get here, seem to make decent gains with the GT30/Holsets though. Probably in the project forums. A mate had a Maptun tubular on his 9000 and that sounded different to mine, more of a nice burble to it. Needed a few changes though like a thinner fan etc
I want a couple for my v6 but will have to go custom again
just nothing available in the UK for mine. Albert on UKS is also making a few up (his work looks awesome btw!!)
I'm sure a couple 9-3's on UKS have fitted the tubular with their 19t's but not sure how much extra oomph you'll get here, seem to make decent gains with the GT30/Holsets though. Probably in the project forums. A mate had a Maptun tubular on his 9000 and that sounded different to mine, more of a nice burble to it. Needed a few changes though like a thinner fan etc
I want a couple for my v6 but will have to go custom again
just nothing available in the UK for mine. Albert on UKS is also making a few up (his work looks awesome btw!!)griffin dai said:
Standard manifolds are good for up to 500 mate so not really needed but they do look nice fitted! I was probably around 480 when I scrapped mine, had a tubular from Tim ready to fit but sacked it in the end and just changed cars, would have been a fair bit over 500 then though
I'm sure a couple 9-3's on UKS have fitted the tubular with their 19t's but not sure how much extra oomph you'll get here, seem to make decent gains with the GT30/Holsets though. Probably in the project forums. A mate had a Maptun tubular on his 9000 and that sounded different to mine, more of a nice burble to it. Needed a few changes though like a thinner fan etc
I want a couple for my v6 but will have to go custom again just nothing available in the UK for mine. Albert on UKS is also making a few up (his work looks awesome btw!!)
How much are Holsets/GT30s? Do you need a custom manifold or downpipe for them?I'm sure a couple 9-3's on UKS have fitted the tubular with their 19t's but not sure how much extra oomph you'll get here, seem to make decent gains with the GT30/Holsets though. Probably in the project forums. A mate had a Maptun tubular on his 9000 and that sounded different to mine, more of a nice burble to it. Needed a few changes though like a thinner fan etc
I want a couple for my v6 but will have to go custom again
just nothing available in the UK for mine. Albert on UKS is also making a few up (his work looks awesome btw!!)If it wasn't for the gearbox I'd tune the hell out of it, like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lFwNRl4mno
There's a fair bit of hardware changes mate, I went from the td04 to gt28rs on mine, came in around £2,500 just to go from stage 4 to 5 which was a lot really for an extra 40-50bhp 
(but then everything was in place to go for to the gt3076r as its almost a straight swap) just needed a 4" silicone adapter for the intake & oil return pipe had to be modded slightly (will be a different intake set up on your 9-5 though)
Check out Meatfeast, Edmaster & Soulfirers threads on UKS as they've all gone for the gt30 here.
It was a while back now but off the top of my head you'll need:
GT30 £800ish new £500ish used
May need a spacer to stop the turbo fouling the block?
A/C might have to be ditched?
May need a thinner rad fan?
New turbo lines (braided around £100-150)
Forge or similar adjustable actuator (£100ish)
Maybe a new downpipe, I had a new one built for mine with a 3" vband then a 3" vband - 5 bolt adapter to connect the to the turbo. So £300+
Vband - 5 bolt adapter £90
GTBB fitting kit (around £200 from the states but he's stopped selling them) that was a few things like actuator bracket & other small stuff to fit the turbo)
Map to suit (Karl)
Probably a new clutch as you'll be around 400-450ft/lbs on the gt30.
Fuel injectors will need upgrading so most go for 630 Dekas.
Fuel pump defo needs upgrading
3 bar map sensor
Then turbo choices!! 0.64ar gt3071r seems a nice choice on the 2.3 a bit laggy but not too bad, meant to behave like a bigger gt28rs. 0.86ar gt3071r has a fair bit more lag but more power higher up. Gt3076r....wouldn't bother as it turns the car into more 90mph+ fun car and day to day slower. I'd have my foot welded to the carpet at 60 in 3rd and it didn't really get going until 70-75. Much more fun with the old gt28rs.
Most also upgrade the cams here, I had Abbott 243 cams on mine which were pretty tame really, if I was going again it would be the Maptun 268's
Holset- speak to Froggy on UKS, he's tried a few now but the hx35 seems a popular choice (that'll need different fittment parts to the garret though)
(but then everything was in place to go for to the gt3076r as its almost a straight swap) just needed a 4" silicone adapter for the intake & oil return pipe had to be modded slightly (will be a different intake set up on your 9-5 though) Check out Meatfeast, Edmaster & Soulfirers threads on UKS as they've all gone for the gt30 here.
It was a while back now but off the top of my head you'll need:
GT30 £800ish new £500ish used
May need a spacer to stop the turbo fouling the block?
A/C might have to be ditched?
May need a thinner rad fan?
New turbo lines (braided around £100-150)
Forge or similar adjustable actuator (£100ish)
Maybe a new downpipe, I had a new one built for mine with a 3" vband then a 3" vband - 5 bolt adapter to connect the to the turbo. So £300+
Vband - 5 bolt adapter £90
GTBB fitting kit (around £200 from the states but he's stopped selling them) that was a few things like actuator bracket & other small stuff to fit the turbo)
Map to suit (Karl)
Probably a new clutch as you'll be around 400-450ft/lbs on the gt30.
Fuel injectors will need upgrading so most go for 630 Dekas.
Fuel pump defo needs upgrading
3 bar map sensor
Then turbo choices!! 0.64ar gt3071r seems a nice choice on the 2.3 a bit laggy but not too bad, meant to behave like a bigger gt28rs. 0.86ar gt3071r has a fair bit more lag but more power higher up. Gt3076r....wouldn't bother as it turns the car into more 90mph+ fun car and day to day slower. I'd have my foot welded to the carpet at 60 in 3rd and it didn't really get going until 70-75. Much more fun with the old gt28rs.
Most also upgrade the cams here, I had Abbott 243 cams on mine which were pretty tame really, if I was going again it would be the Maptun 268's
Holset- speak to Froggy on UKS, he's tried a few now but the hx35 seems a popular choice (that'll need different fittment parts to the garret though)
griffin dai said:
There's a fair bit of hardware changes mate, I went from the td04 to gt28rs on mine, came in around £2,500 just to go from stage 4 to 5 which was a lot really for an extra 40-50bhp (but then everything was in place to go for to the gt3076r as its almost a straight swap) just needed a 4" silicone adapter for the intake & oil return pipe had to be modded slightly (will be a different intake set up on your 9-5 though)
Check out Meatfeast, Edmaster & Soulfirers threads on UKS as they've all gone for the gt30 here.
It was a while back now but off the top of my head you'll need:
GT30 £800ish new £500ish used
May need a spacer to stop the turbo fouling the block?
A/C might have to be ditched?
May need a thinner rad fan?
New turbo lines (braided around £100-150)
Forge or similar adjustable actuator (£100ish)
Maybe a new downpipe, I had a new one built for mine with a 3" vband then a 3" vband - 5 bolt adapter to connect the to the turbo. So £300+
Vband - 5 bolt adapter £90
GTBB fitting kit (around £200 from the states but he's stopped selling them) that was a few things like actuator bracket & other small stuff to fit the turbo)
Map to suit (Karl)
Probably a new clutch as you'll be around 400-450ft/lbs on the gt30.
Fuel injectors will need upgrading so most go for 630 Dekas.
Fuel pump defo needs upgrading
3 bar map sensor
Then turbo choices!! 0.64ar gt3071r seems a nice choice on the 2.3 a bit laggy but not too bad, meant to behave like a bigger gt28rs. 0.86ar gt3071r has a fair bit more lag but more power higher up. Gt3076r....wouldn't bother as it turns the car into more 90mph+ fun car and day to day slower. I'd have my foot welded to the carpet at 60 in 3rd and it didn't really get going until 70-75. Much more fun with the old gt28rs.
Most also upgrade the cams here, I had Abbott 243 cams on mine which were pretty tame really, if I was going again it would be the Maptun 268's
Holset- speak to Froggy on UKS, he's tried a few now but the hx35 seems a popular choice (that'll need different fittment parts to the garret though)
That doesn't seem too bad really for the cost! I'm used to other cars that cost a lot more for that type of increase. (but then everything was in place to go for to the gt3076r as its almost a straight swap) just needed a 4" silicone adapter for the intake & oil return pipe had to be modded slightly (will be a different intake set up on your 9-5 though) Check out Meatfeast, Edmaster & Soulfirers threads on UKS as they've all gone for the gt30 here.
It was a while back now but off the top of my head you'll need:
GT30 £800ish new £500ish used
May need a spacer to stop the turbo fouling the block?
A/C might have to be ditched?
May need a thinner rad fan?
New turbo lines (braided around £100-150)
Forge or similar adjustable actuator (£100ish)
Maybe a new downpipe, I had a new one built for mine with a 3" vband then a 3" vband - 5 bolt adapter to connect the to the turbo. So £300+
Vband - 5 bolt adapter £90
GTBB fitting kit (around £200 from the states but he's stopped selling them) that was a few things like actuator bracket & other small stuff to fit the turbo)
Map to suit (Karl)
Probably a new clutch as you'll be around 400-450ft/lbs on the gt30.
Fuel injectors will need upgrading so most go for 630 Dekas.
Fuel pump defo needs upgrading
3 bar map sensor
Then turbo choices!! 0.64ar gt3071r seems a nice choice on the 2.3 a bit laggy but not too bad, meant to behave like a bigger gt28rs. 0.86ar gt3071r has a fair bit more lag but more power higher up. Gt3076r....wouldn't bother as it turns the car into more 90mph+ fun car and day to day slower. I'd have my foot welded to the carpet at 60 in 3rd and it didn't really get going until 70-75. Much more fun with the old gt28rs.
Most also upgrade the cams here, I had Abbott 243 cams on mine which were pretty tame really, if I was going again it would be the Maptun 268's
Holset- speak to Froggy on UKS, he's tried a few now but the hx35 seems a popular choice (that'll need different fittment parts to the garret though)
What sort of power/torque would the GT3071r give you?
Good effort from the OP.
I have an 05 9-5 Auto Estate and I quite like it. Mine is completely standard and currently on 206k
Should see 220k before I sell it at the end of next year.
When I bought it in March last year, I did contemplate remapping it to 275, but having now lived with it for 9 months I probably won't bother unless I was going to re-fresh the suspension and some of the steering components to sharpen up the handling. I know mine is carrying quite a bit of wear and tear, but it still doesn't feel that sharp. I wanted the auto for waftyness, but in hindsight I think the manual would have been a bit more engaging. Also mine understeers a lot if you try to push it. My guess is that it's just down to worn suspension and the Event tyres on the front.
I have an 05 9-5 Auto Estate and I quite like it. Mine is completely standard and currently on 206k
Should see 220k before I sell it at the end of next year. When I bought it in March last year, I did contemplate remapping it to 275, but having now lived with it for 9 months I probably won't bother unless I was going to re-fresh the suspension and some of the steering components to sharpen up the handling. I know mine is carrying quite a bit of wear and tear, but it still doesn't feel that sharp. I wanted the auto for waftyness, but in hindsight I think the manual would have been a bit more engaging. Also mine understeers a lot if you try to push it. My guess is that it's just down to worn suspension and the Event tyres on the front.
AntiLagGC8 said:
That doesn't seem too bad really for the cost! I'm used to other cars that cost a lot more for that type of increase.
What sort of power/torque would the GT3071r give you?
Yeah you can get the b2x4 cars flying for not a lot, because I did mine in stages it ended up a little expensive trying a couple different turbos & injectors out plus the various maps, much cheaper to go straight to stage 6 What sort of power/torque would the GT3071r give you?
And gearboxes! I killed 3 trying different ratio's out before I called down a bit Power/Torque- Depends really mate on what size exhaust housing & cams you fit, 0.86ar seems to get the most power but I know of one 0.64 that's over 500, I think around 400-430 is the norm on the 0.64 though. Plus most of the GT30/Holset Saab lot go for a tubular so end up around or just over 500bhp.
I dyno'd my 0.86 GT3076R and had 450bhp & 425ft/lbs (torque kept low to keep the clutch happy, apparently the uprated Sachs clutch I had fitted doesn't like going much above 440ft/lbs) was probably closer to 480 when I scrapped it though, should have been a fair bit over 500 of id gone for the tubular
Nice to have the power but day to day it was quicker with the GT28RS 0.64 it was just too laggy with the gt30.
I went out in a friends gt3071r 0.86 but with a tubular & Quaife and that thing could really shift, he drove mine and could feel the extra lag of the 76, probably once a few hundred rpm difference but you can really feel it. Didn't really get going until 70-75....unless I was canning it everywhere in 2nd!
bakerstreet said:
Good effort from the OP.
I have an 05 9-5 Auto Estate and I quite like it. Mine is completely standard and currently on 206k Should see 220k before I sell it at the end of next year.
When I bought it in March last year, I did contemplate remapping it to 275, but having now lived with it for 9 months I probably won't bother unless I was going to re-fresh the suspension and some of the steering components to sharpen up the handling. I know mine is carrying quite a bit of wear and tear, but it still doesn't feel that sharp. I wanted the auto for waftyness, but in hindsight I think the manual would have been a bit more engaging. Also mine understeers a lot if you try to push it. My guess is that it's just down to worn suspension and the Event tyres on the front.
I think you should experience stage 1 at least at some point, best 80 quid I ever spent! Noobtune totally transforms the power delivery. I guess though if your suspension is knackered then might not be worth doing, but for smiles-per-pound it's great value.I have an 05 9-5 Auto Estate and I quite like it. Mine is completely standard and currently on 206k
Should see 220k before I sell it at the end of next year. When I bought it in March last year, I did contemplate remapping it to 275, but having now lived with it for 9 months I probably won't bother unless I was going to re-fresh the suspension and some of the steering components to sharpen up the handling. I know mine is carrying quite a bit of wear and tear, but it still doesn't feel that sharp. I wanted the auto for waftyness, but in hindsight I think the manual would have been a bit more engaging. Also mine understeers a lot if you try to push it. My guess is that it's just down to worn suspension and the Event tyres on the front.
griffin dai said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
That doesn't seem too bad really for the cost! I'm used to other cars that cost a lot more for that type of increase.
What sort of power/torque would the GT3071r give you?
Yeah you can get the b2x4 cars flying for not a lot, because I did mine in stages it ended up a little expensive trying a couple different turbos & injectors out plus the various maps, much cheaper to go straight to stage 6 What sort of power/torque would the GT3071r give you?
And gearboxes! I killed 3 trying different ratio's out before I called down a bit Power/Torque- Depends really mate on what size exhaust housing & cams you fit, 0.86ar seems to get the most power but I know of one 0.64 that's over 500, I think around 400-430 is the norm on the 0.64 though. Plus most of the GT30/Holset Saab lot go for a tubular so end up around or just over 500bhp.
I dyno'd my 0.86 GT3076R and had 450bhp & 425ft/lbs (torque kept low to keep the clutch happy, apparently the uprated Sachs clutch I had fitted doesn't like going much above 440ft/lbs) was probably closer to 480 when I scrapped it though, should have been a fair bit over 500 of id gone for the tubular
Nice to have the power but day to day it was quicker with the GT28RS 0.64 it was just too laggy with the gt30.
I went out in a friends gt3071r 0.86 but with a tubular & Quaife and that thing could really shift, he drove mine and could feel the extra lag of the 76, probably once a few hundred rpm difference but you can really feel it. Didn't really get going until 70-75....unless I was canning it everywhere in 2nd!
I know what you mean about lag, I've been in a 620bhp Impreza P1 and whilst it was insane on boost, it was difficult to make any use of day to day.
One of the reasons I was encouraged to go twin scroll is the improved response although in a classic like mine it was considerable more expensive as the turbos cost more and there are various other items that have to be changed like the manifold, sump etc.
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