Lotus Elise 111R
Discussion
Sold my Subaru (2005 STI) back in December, and made the decision to opt for a dedicate road car and a dedicated track car for 2016.
This thread is for the track car, a 2006 Lotus Elise 111R!
I had four options I think when the Subaru moved on, A Lotus/Caterham 7 style car, a VX220, an Elise or an Exige. I excluded stuff like Evos, E46 M3s and hot hatches because I wanted something "purpose built" that could do track days out of the box, with little concern for consumables or reliability. The RWD/Mid Engine formula also appeals to me.
7: A bit too focussed for me now, I'd like to do a Europe roadtrip in this car and maybe I should learn the world of RWD with something a little less bonkers. Self build kit is defo on the cards in the future though.
VX220: Was in the running, I just didn't see one I REALLY liked. They're typically much cheaper than Elises (specifically the spec I went for) and have good tuning potential, no real down sides. I did prefer the aesthetics of the S2 Elise though and the S2 elise is available "newer".
Exige: After really learning the differences between an S2 Elise and Exige, they suddenly looked REALLY expensive for not a lot extra. Same/similar engine choices, better wheel fitment, better suspension and a hardtop. That's about it!
Elise: Lots of specs/models to chose from. S1 have great charm, and harder to get really tidy ones now. S2 choices are split roughly down the middle by K-Series or Toyota engines. K-Series plagued with HG issues and getting on a bit now, so decided on Toyota.
The 111R is the 190bhp Toyota engine, I believe was in the Corolla T-Sport cars and the Celica? It's about as much power as you can get out of a factory Elise without going supercharged or turbo. This car cost significantly more than a VX would have done, but still cheaper than the cheapest Exiges by 5 or 6 grand.
Honda K20 ones popped up from time to time, but never at the right time and place for me. I can only imagine they're mental.
As for my specific car, the 111R cars were coming through the usual classifieds locations very slowly - only 3 or 4 cars of note since I started half-looking back in October. I further narrowed down my options by deciding it had to be either red, or blue (specifically Laser Blue). This particular car was up for sale by a specialist dealer late last year, but upon the ad expiring it was taken down over winter (I assumed at the time it was sold); it got relisted last week - so off I went to see it!
One of the shots from the ad:
The car was way down in Essex, a 6 hour round trip for me but like I said - these things don't come up too often. I went down with a friend last weekend quite nervous that it would be a nail.
As it turned out, I didn't have much to worry about - it's in seemingly fine condition and looked really tidy. Drove well on the test drive, and the dealer was a nice guy to boot. (really nice classic car collection, plus a Lotus franchised dealer). As a 2006 car, it has LED rear lights and projectors up front... these cars changed almost every six months due to their parts-bin nature I guess, the later the better generally but I wouldn't have turned down a 2004 one! This was built with the optional extra carpets AND sun visors, but no air conditioning or cup holder!
I'd identified from online history that the car hadn't really moved since at least May 2015, the date of its last MOT expiration and had been SORN since. Not completely uncommon on these cars I guess, they go into hiding over winter and sometimes don't come out the next spring - like my fishing gear I suppose! Car is on 43k miles, so clearly been a weekend car its whole life.
It's had a service at a dealer every year until it went SORN, but I can't find any evidence of the big "C" service. I'm not exactly sure of the deal here, it's a cam chain but are they still routinely swapped? I'll look into that.
Upon viewing the car, it had no MOT and was due a service - so the dealer was going to take care of that inclusive of asking price. After identifying a few more niggles (identified either by it's MOT midweek or myself during the viewing), he sorted those too:
Excessive corrosion on rear brake lines (pipes changed)
One of the rear clusters had 4 LEDs out (cluster replaced)
Front tyres cracked (MOT advisory) (negotiated bit of discount)
Alloys lightly curbed (negotiated bit of discount)
Indicator cracked (replaced)
Weather was decent, traffic was kind to us - today was a good day. Pics on collection:
The Gent even brimmed the tank for me, rare behaviour for a dealer as it was on fumes during the test drive!!
The drive home was pretty epic, not as uncomfortable as I expected but a little bit intimidating on the motorway... being able to see directly under an L200 as it pulled alongside me was a little odd... I never drive cars confidently on test drives, so the performance of the 111R was a nice surprise after I got comfortable with it. The VTEC-esque kick is the strongest I've ever felt in a car, and it gets through the revs very nicely indeed. After the torque and power of the Subaru (400bhp/370torques), I've been bracing myself for a bit of a comedown but it's really not that bad, slower of course - but the feel of the car makes it very enjoyable.
Service station pictures...
Car did almost 39mpg on the drive home, so clear win over the Subaru there... :|
Handling wise, I've hardly thrown it round yet - but the steering feel I know is a cliched comment about these cars, but it's really something else. It's not a chore, but it's very rewarding. The car currently hints towards understeer the way I've driven it, so I don't fear it (yet). Apparently with wider front wheels and altered geo you can make it understeer-proof, which in turn will make it scary
Before spending any money, I want to spend a few weeks with it to make sure no gremlins appear. How I resist temptation we'll have to wait and see though, my preliminary plans are:
Short Term:
Sunstrip off (tomorrow :wave: )
Exige fitment wheels (wider fronts) and track tyres
New Exhaust, go back to the 111S (K-Series equiv of my car) styling of having a tailpipe come out each side of the numberplate rather than under the diffuser on the 111R.
Some side-pods (aesthetics) and maybe a front diffuser
Medium Term:
Suspension refresh, remove/clean/paint all wishbones and links - new bushes all round. Common job on these, as the gubbins aren't treated very well - and so look like they're from the deck of the titanic.
Brake refresh, remove/clean/paint calipers, braided hoses, etc.
Geo setup, but only after I've done a trackday or two to see how it feels
Long Term:
Supercharger
"Will see how it goes...":
Uprated Radiator
Baffled Sump
The community has so far been excellent, cheap trackdays with Lotus on Track and I've found a classic car/sports car specialist insurer that has done me a policy for £450ish - which INCLUDES 6 trackdays per year. That alone saves me 480quid from the Subaru trackday bolt-on insurance. It's a 4000 limited mileage policy mind, but sufficient for this.
The Subaru was the first car I properly modified, and I made a lot of mistakes which in turn cost a lot of money. This car should be good for me out of the box so I need to resist the urge to spend on shiny bits until I've at least experienced it properly and know which direction to take it. Hopefully I'll get it cleaned tomorrow morning and I can get some proper pictures up.
This thread is for the track car, a 2006 Lotus Elise 111R!
I had four options I think when the Subaru moved on, A Lotus/Caterham 7 style car, a VX220, an Elise or an Exige. I excluded stuff like Evos, E46 M3s and hot hatches because I wanted something "purpose built" that could do track days out of the box, with little concern for consumables or reliability. The RWD/Mid Engine formula also appeals to me.
7: A bit too focussed for me now, I'd like to do a Europe roadtrip in this car and maybe I should learn the world of RWD with something a little less bonkers. Self build kit is defo on the cards in the future though.
VX220: Was in the running, I just didn't see one I REALLY liked. They're typically much cheaper than Elises (specifically the spec I went for) and have good tuning potential, no real down sides. I did prefer the aesthetics of the S2 Elise though and the S2 elise is available "newer".
Exige: After really learning the differences between an S2 Elise and Exige, they suddenly looked REALLY expensive for not a lot extra. Same/similar engine choices, better wheel fitment, better suspension and a hardtop. That's about it!
Elise: Lots of specs/models to chose from. S1 have great charm, and harder to get really tidy ones now. S2 choices are split roughly down the middle by K-Series or Toyota engines. K-Series plagued with HG issues and getting on a bit now, so decided on Toyota.
The 111R is the 190bhp Toyota engine, I believe was in the Corolla T-Sport cars and the Celica? It's about as much power as you can get out of a factory Elise without going supercharged or turbo. This car cost significantly more than a VX would have done, but still cheaper than the cheapest Exiges by 5 or 6 grand.
Honda K20 ones popped up from time to time, but never at the right time and place for me. I can only imagine they're mental.
As for my specific car, the 111R cars were coming through the usual classifieds locations very slowly - only 3 or 4 cars of note since I started half-looking back in October. I further narrowed down my options by deciding it had to be either red, or blue (specifically Laser Blue). This particular car was up for sale by a specialist dealer late last year, but upon the ad expiring it was taken down over winter (I assumed at the time it was sold); it got relisted last week - so off I went to see it!
One of the shots from the ad:
The car was way down in Essex, a 6 hour round trip for me but like I said - these things don't come up too often. I went down with a friend last weekend quite nervous that it would be a nail.
As it turned out, I didn't have much to worry about - it's in seemingly fine condition and looked really tidy. Drove well on the test drive, and the dealer was a nice guy to boot. (really nice classic car collection, plus a Lotus franchised dealer). As a 2006 car, it has LED rear lights and projectors up front... these cars changed almost every six months due to their parts-bin nature I guess, the later the better generally but I wouldn't have turned down a 2004 one! This was built with the optional extra carpets AND sun visors, but no air conditioning or cup holder!
I'd identified from online history that the car hadn't really moved since at least May 2015, the date of its last MOT expiration and had been SORN since. Not completely uncommon on these cars I guess, they go into hiding over winter and sometimes don't come out the next spring - like my fishing gear I suppose! Car is on 43k miles, so clearly been a weekend car its whole life.
It's had a service at a dealer every year until it went SORN, but I can't find any evidence of the big "C" service. I'm not exactly sure of the deal here, it's a cam chain but are they still routinely swapped? I'll look into that.
Upon viewing the car, it had no MOT and was due a service - so the dealer was going to take care of that inclusive of asking price. After identifying a few more niggles (identified either by it's MOT midweek or myself during the viewing), he sorted those too:
Excessive corrosion on rear brake lines (pipes changed)
One of the rear clusters had 4 LEDs out (cluster replaced)
Front tyres cracked (MOT advisory) (negotiated bit of discount)
Alloys lightly curbed (negotiated bit of discount)
Indicator cracked (replaced)
Weather was decent, traffic was kind to us - today was a good day. Pics on collection:
The Gent even brimmed the tank for me, rare behaviour for a dealer as it was on fumes during the test drive!!
The drive home was pretty epic, not as uncomfortable as I expected but a little bit intimidating on the motorway... being able to see directly under an L200 as it pulled alongside me was a little odd... I never drive cars confidently on test drives, so the performance of the 111R was a nice surprise after I got comfortable with it. The VTEC-esque kick is the strongest I've ever felt in a car, and it gets through the revs very nicely indeed. After the torque and power of the Subaru (400bhp/370torques), I've been bracing myself for a bit of a comedown but it's really not that bad, slower of course - but the feel of the car makes it very enjoyable.
Service station pictures...
Car did almost 39mpg on the drive home, so clear win over the Subaru there... :|
Handling wise, I've hardly thrown it round yet - but the steering feel I know is a cliched comment about these cars, but it's really something else. It's not a chore, but it's very rewarding. The car currently hints towards understeer the way I've driven it, so I don't fear it (yet). Apparently with wider front wheels and altered geo you can make it understeer-proof, which in turn will make it scary
Before spending any money, I want to spend a few weeks with it to make sure no gremlins appear. How I resist temptation we'll have to wait and see though, my preliminary plans are:
Short Term:
Sunstrip off (tomorrow :wave: )
Exige fitment wheels (wider fronts) and track tyres
New Exhaust, go back to the 111S (K-Series equiv of my car) styling of having a tailpipe come out each side of the numberplate rather than under the diffuser on the 111R.
Some side-pods (aesthetics) and maybe a front diffuser
Medium Term:
Suspension refresh, remove/clean/paint all wishbones and links - new bushes all round. Common job on these, as the gubbins aren't treated very well - and so look like they're from the deck of the titanic.
Brake refresh, remove/clean/paint calipers, braided hoses, etc.
Geo setup, but only after I've done a trackday or two to see how it feels
Long Term:
Supercharger
"Will see how it goes...":
Uprated Radiator
Baffled Sump
The community has so far been excellent, cheap trackdays with Lotus on Track and I've found a classic car/sports car specialist insurer that has done me a policy for £450ish - which INCLUDES 6 trackdays per year. That alone saves me 480quid from the Subaru trackday bolt-on insurance. It's a 4000 limited mileage policy mind, but sufficient for this.
The Subaru was the first car I properly modified, and I made a lot of mistakes which in turn cost a lot of money. This car should be good for me out of the box so I need to resist the urge to spend on shiny bits until I've at least experienced it properly and know which direction to take it. Hopefully I'll get it cleaned tomorrow morning and I can get some proper pictures up.
Said hello previously on NYLOC. Not the busiest forum but a brilliant club with a lot of members and lots of events/drives.
Can't make it Tue, but will no doubt see you another time.
Get yourself on the Abbeville trip, it's a cracking weekend and great value.
C service is for K series. One of the benefits of the Yota lump is that it just needs a more standard minor/major/minor servicing. I think it's plugs after 6 years but only £40, so worth doing if you don't know when last done.
Cheers
Rick
p.s You really need to drive the R in the top end of the rev range. Keep your oil topped up to the max line or even a fraction over.
Can't make it Tue, but will no doubt see you another time.
Get yourself on the Abbeville trip, it's a cracking weekend and great value.
C service is for K series. One of the benefits of the Yota lump is that it just needs a more standard minor/major/minor servicing. I think it's plugs after 6 years but only £40, so worth doing if you don't know when last done.
Cheers
Rick
p.s You really need to drive the R in the top end of the rev range. Keep your oil topped up to the max line or even a fraction over.
Edited by Rick101 on Sunday 24th January 07:21
Thanks all for the comments.
To respond to some comments:
Fantastic showroom, thoroughly enjoyed the visit.
I've driven "on cam" cars before, Civic Type R being the main one. This Elise has a lift-kick like nothing I've felt before, it's a significant change in the character of the engine and it's not particularly lazy when sub 6k RPM either to be fair! I think I'll have plenty of fun in this car, I can see why a lower cam shift change would make the car more driveable though, even if it mitigated the feeling of the kick somewhat. One to consider.
I would have loved to have spent all today fussing over the car, but the Grandparents were coming round for dinner...
That didn't stop me washing the car at 8am though! Got it all nice and clean, nothing serious but a wipe down with AG SRP. I then planned to drive it just round the corner for a few photos, so off I pootled very slowly to prevent splashing the car. Oncoming traffic sprayed a massive muddy puddle all up my side, so stuff it - I went out for a drive!
30mins later, back on the drive washing it again!
I bought one of those Gliptone leather kits for my steering wheel when selling the Subaru, so went to work on the seats and wheel in the Lotus.
This is a before picture of the passenger seat, leather was just a little dry looking and not as black as it should be:
Wheel a bit grubby:
Afterwards:
It got wheeled into the garage whilst we entertained the Grandparents, then I got back into the garage for a quick going over with my leftover Werkstatt (Carlack) sealant.
Couple more pics for the "I need to address pile":
Window Seals on both sides have gone manky, seem dead easy to swap over though.
Some water ingress at somepoint I guess into the light lense. Replacements are stupid expensive, may need to either tolerate it or dismantle and see if I can fix. That's not a massive gash in the wing btw, it's the reflection of my striplight!
To respond to some comments:
Tiger Tim said:
Lovely car... I'm biased though as its the same colour as my k series s2.
Two things:
Book a walshy day and get on seloc. In a years time you'll be saying the same to someone else!
Definitely eyeing up some proper tuition time. I need to take the car on a cheap Blyton day or something as a "shakedown" to make sure nothing crops up, it would be daft to shell out for expensive tuition at a faraway racetrack if my radiator popped after 2 laps!Two things:
Book a walshy day and get on seloc. In a years time you'll be saying the same to someone else!
Diesel Meister said:
Lovely :-)
If it was Castle Lotus, was it Loon that sold it to you? I think he's a member on here still. Excellent taste in cars if I recall. I need to pay him a visit, see if I can get any PH points that translate into a test drive.
It was Castle Lotus yes, not sure if the gent I dealt with had an online presence so it may well be this Loon you speak of If it was Castle Lotus, was it Loon that sold it to you? I think he's a member on here still. Excellent taste in cars if I recall. I need to pay him a visit, see if I can get any PH points that translate into a test drive.
Fantastic showroom, thoroughly enjoyed the visit.Rick101 said:
Said hello previously on NYLOC. Not the busiest forum but a brilliant club with a lot of members and lots of events/drives.
Can't make it Tue, but will no doubt see you another time.
Get yourself on the Abbeville trip, it's a cracking weekend and great value.
C service is for K series. One of the benefits of the Yota lump is that it just needs a more standard minor/major/minor servicing. I think it's plugs after 6 years but only £40, so worth doing if you don't know when last done.
Cheers
Rick
p.s You really need to drive the R in the top end of the rev range. Keep your oil topped up to the max line or even a fraction over.
Thanks for the service info. I'll swap plugs as I've got no evidence of them being done.Can't make it Tue, but will no doubt see you another time.
Get yourself on the Abbeville trip, it's a cracking weekend and great value.
C service is for K series. One of the benefits of the Yota lump is that it just needs a more standard minor/major/minor servicing. I think it's plugs after 6 years but only £40, so worth doing if you don't know when last done.
Cheers
Rick
p.s You really need to drive the R in the top end of the rev range. Keep your oil topped up to the max line or even a fraction over.
Edited by Rick101 on Sunday 24th January 07:21
I've driven "on cam" cars before, Civic Type R being the main one. This Elise has a lift-kick like nothing I've felt before, it's a significant change in the character of the engine and it's not particularly lazy when sub 6k RPM either to be fair! I think I'll have plenty of fun in this car, I can see why a lower cam shift change would make the car more driveable though, even if it mitigated the feeling of the kick somewhat. One to consider.
I would have loved to have spent all today fussing over the car, but the Grandparents were coming round for dinner...
That didn't stop me washing the car at 8am though! Got it all nice and clean, nothing serious but a wipe down with AG SRP. I then planned to drive it just round the corner for a few photos, so off I pootled very slowly to prevent splashing the car. Oncoming traffic sprayed a massive muddy puddle all up my side, so stuff it - I went out for a drive!
30mins later, back on the drive washing it again!
I bought one of those Gliptone leather kits for my steering wheel when selling the Subaru, so went to work on the seats and wheel in the Lotus.
This is a before picture of the passenger seat, leather was just a little dry looking and not as black as it should be:
Wheel a bit grubby:
Afterwards:
It got wheeled into the garage whilst we entertained the Grandparents, then I got back into the garage for a quick going over with my leftover Werkstatt (Carlack) sealant.
Couple more pics for the "I need to address pile":
Window Seals on both sides have gone manky, seem dead easy to swap over though.
Some water ingress at somepoint I guess into the light lense. Replacements are stupid expensive, may need to either tolerate it or dismantle and see if I can fix. That's not a massive gash in the wing btw, it's the reflection of my striplight!
I've been thinking tyres all day.
Dilemma:
All tyres are fine on tread, but front ones are cracking. Nothing too scary, but I doubt I'll take them round a racetrack.
Rear tyres are Bridgestone S001's and fronts are Bridgestone RE040s (OEM fitment for my car I believe). I'm therefore concluding that front tyres are the original ones and the rears have been swapped at somepoint.
Option A: Get new alloy wheels in Exige fitment, with brand new tyres all round. Probably of track spec.
Option B: Replace just the fronts. Get Bridgestones again, probably S001's to match the rears.
Option C: Replace tyres all round with AD07s. These were OEM fitment for pretty much every other Elise of the era, think the bridgestones were a one-off?
Option C Part-2: Replace tyres all round, AD07 on the front and AD08R round the back. Reason for this is that the AD08R is NOT available in my front size, but it IS available in the Exige front size. Therefor, if I change to Exige wheels later I can at least recycle the rears and get matching fronts. It means running mixed compound front to back, which it seems a few people do and I'm not aware of any deaths as a result. AD08R rears are also within a quid of the price of AD07 rears.
My reason for veering away from A, is that it's contradicting my game-plan of seeing what the car is capable of out of the box. If I go wider sticky tyres, I'm then in baffled sump and uprated toe-link territory.
My reason for veering away from B is availability of tyres it seems, both S001 and RE040 seem hard to come by in the relevant sizes.
So that leaves me with C and C Part-2. Needs a day or so of thought to see if I want to mix compound or not.
It's probably also worth noting that the Yoko tyres for lotus were produced as a "LTS" model, I'm aware of that but I'm sceptical of them being significantly different and they're silly expensive.
I welcome any thoughts on this!
Dilemma:
All tyres are fine on tread, but front ones are cracking. Nothing too scary, but I doubt I'll take them round a racetrack.
Rear tyres are Bridgestone S001's and fronts are Bridgestone RE040s (OEM fitment for my car I believe). I'm therefore concluding that front tyres are the original ones and the rears have been swapped at somepoint.
Option A: Get new alloy wheels in Exige fitment, with brand new tyres all round. Probably of track spec.
Option B: Replace just the fronts. Get Bridgestones again, probably S001's to match the rears.
Option C: Replace tyres all round with AD07s. These were OEM fitment for pretty much every other Elise of the era, think the bridgestones were a one-off?
Option C Part-2: Replace tyres all round, AD07 on the front and AD08R round the back. Reason for this is that the AD08R is NOT available in my front size, but it IS available in the Exige front size. Therefor, if I change to Exige wheels later I can at least recycle the rears and get matching fronts. It means running mixed compound front to back, which it seems a few people do and I'm not aware of any deaths as a result. AD08R rears are also within a quid of the price of AD07 rears.
My reason for veering away from A, is that it's contradicting my game-plan of seeing what the car is capable of out of the box. If I go wider sticky tyres, I'm then in baffled sump and uprated toe-link territory.
My reason for veering away from B is availability of tyres it seems, both S001 and RE040 seem hard to come by in the relevant sizes.
So that leaves me with C and C Part-2. Needs a day or so of thought to see if I want to mix compound or not.
It's probably also worth noting that the Yoko tyres for lotus were produced as a "LTS" model, I'm aware of that but I'm sceptical of them being significantly different and they're silly expensive.
I welcome any thoughts on this!
Get some Exige wheels, re-geo, sell yours and have AD08-Rs all round?
AD07 were selling well from here too: http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/
AD07 were selling well from here too: http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/
Thanks Tickle, the AD08R all round is probably the end goal - but I was determined with this car to only bolt on upgrades after I experienced it a few times properly.
With the Subaru, I decided in September of that year to do some trackdays, in October I had new wheels, R888's and coilovers, then did my first track day. How much improvement did the R888's and coilovers add? I've got no idea.
Years later I come to sell it and it's back on standard rubber and suspension, it actually handled really well.
Yep I discovered that site with a bit of googling. AD07's all round come in at an attractive £330.
With the Subaru, I decided in September of that year to do some trackdays, in October I had new wheels, R888's and coilovers, then did my first track day. How much improvement did the R888's and coilovers add? I've got no idea.
Years later I come to sell it and it's back on standard rubber and suspension, it actually handled really well.
Yep I discovered that site with a bit of googling. AD07's all round come in at an attractive £330.
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