Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6
Discussion
davebem said:
Sounds interesting, they are as rare as hens teeth now. Id like to see a pic of yours, that factory seem to always cock up on something, even right up to the last alfas made there (159?)..they put the wrong PS fluid in on 2/3rds of the production run!
Afraid I don’t think I have any pics of the mighty Europe, it was 25 years ago when I owned it! I don’t want to de rail your thread with Arna though, however there is lots of the web about them, apparently none are left on the road in the UK. Only the Nissan version survives, mine looked identical to this one:
As you can see it’s natural habitat was hanging out at the marina with women in swim suits sitting on the bonnet:
davebem said:
On a few really great runs in the warmer weather the coolant temp issues I had earlier returned, where it sits at just over 90 (up to 99) whilst on move but with hard driving. Maybe its an OCD of mine, but Im refusing to believe the general Alfisti view this is normal.
I put on hold the 3.0/3.2 air-oil cooler conversion idea mentioned in an earlier update, Ive made a note of what needs to be done:
- Relocation of the power steering cooler to left hand side - easy
- Removing branch from near the thermostat housing to heat exchanger - easy
- Blank return hole from heat exchanger to block - easy
- Fitting of pipes from rear engine to front right hand side and mounting of oil cooler - easy
- and crucially replacing the take off plate at the back of the engine behind the oil filter. Ive had a good look at this and think the engine will need to come out, some of the bolts are not reachable, and the take off plate doubles up as the mid-driveshaft mounting!
did you get the Mocal oil cooler adaptor? if so which model number? am interested in doing this myself; also did you make your own blanking plate for the block from the (removed) heat exchanger or did you buy a blanking plate?I put on hold the 3.0/3.2 air-oil cooler conversion idea mentioned in an earlier update, Ive made a note of what needs to be done:
- Relocation of the power steering cooler to left hand side - easy
- Removing branch from near the thermostat housing to heat exchanger - easy
- Blank return hole from heat exchanger to block - easy
- Fitting of pipes from rear engine to front right hand side and mounting of oil cooler - easy
- and crucially replacing the take off plate at the back of the engine behind the oil filter. Ive had a good look at this and think the engine will need to come out, some of the bolts are not reachable, and the take off plate doubles up as the mid-driveshaft mounting!
Edited by davebem on Tuesday 5th July 20:58
SydneySE said:
did you get the Mocal oil cooler adaptor? if so which model number? am interested in doing this myself; also did you make your own blanking plate for the block from the (removed) heat exchanger or did you buy a blanking plate?
Hi, I got the standard mocal thermostatic oil take off SP-1, with matching mocal spacer SPA1, and fitted this where the heat exchanger originally was, it just fits inside the exchanger mount and with the spacer it locates the filter in the same place, although I did trim the mount at the bottom a little to keep the pipes away from the manifold heat shield. I also bought a centre extender bolt (m20 from memory), the extender is not needed but I cut this in half and screwed the end peice over the existing long thread to ensure it all sits centrally. To block off the exchangers old coolant feed you will need a lower rear block blanking plug from a 3.0 or 3.2 and also blank off/remove the metal pipe that runs from the back of the thermostat along the back of the plenum. The 3.0/3.2 one wont do because the coolant tank is on the other side on those and it feeds that instead. However for now on mine ive just run a straight through 15mm ID coolant pipe. I couldnt source the parts and at the time wasnt sure if the 2.5 is plumbed internally any different (im now sure it is not).I sold the Twinny engine without even trying to a well known Alfa specialist, there is a lot of demand for them. Ive made the money back now from purchasing the 2nd car.
Unfortunately after more poking around and scraping off loose underseal I found the drivers side rear footwell was shot on both ends. As per previous post the rear vents had turned into holes (I suspected this when I bought it), but also most of the section under the front seat near where its joined to the front floor panel had rotted through too. I cant figure out how this has happened, I can only assume the car has or had a water leak and the water has sat here for a long time.
At one point we were contemplating replacing the whole floor section, but the sills were fine apart from a tiny hole near the seat strengthening plate that we just plated over. So we sanded off all the loose underseal, moved the fuel line out the way and my (new) welder mate replaced any rotten sections by cutting out sections from the floor that I cut from the 2001 car. We even managed to drill and spot weld the front seat strengthening section.
Doner panels, so lucky I had the forsight to cut the whole sections out of the original car (my original intent was to sell them).
I went through this by stabbing it with a screwdriver. The metal here did seem thinner than the donor panel above.
Vent section replaced, those pesky vents will be welded up next week. I shielded the fuel tank as was paranoid of explosion
Replaced section under the front seat.
Nearly done. All original contours have been maintained, onces its smoothed off and undersealed I dont think it will notice.
This was what we left of the rust free panel from the first pic.
The front, sills and rear passenger side is all fine, so all thats left is welding up the vents, some finishing/smoothing to make it more perfect, then it will be treated to a full belly rust proof and re-applicaiton of underseal.
Unfortunately after more poking around and scraping off loose underseal I found the drivers side rear footwell was shot on both ends. As per previous post the rear vents had turned into holes (I suspected this when I bought it), but also most of the section under the front seat near where its joined to the front floor panel had rotted through too. I cant figure out how this has happened, I can only assume the car has or had a water leak and the water has sat here for a long time.
At one point we were contemplating replacing the whole floor section, but the sills were fine apart from a tiny hole near the seat strengthening plate that we just plated over. So we sanded off all the loose underseal, moved the fuel line out the way and my (new) welder mate replaced any rotten sections by cutting out sections from the floor that I cut from the 2001 car. We even managed to drill and spot weld the front seat strengthening section.
Doner panels, so lucky I had the forsight to cut the whole sections out of the original car (my original intent was to sell them).
I went through this by stabbing it with a screwdriver. The metal here did seem thinner than the donor panel above.
Vent section replaced, those pesky vents will be welded up next week. I shielded the fuel tank as was paranoid of explosion
Replaced section under the front seat.
Nearly done. All original contours have been maintained, onces its smoothed off and undersealed I dont think it will notice.
This was what we left of the rust free panel from the first pic.
The front, sills and rear passenger side is all fine, so all thats left is welding up the vents, some finishing/smoothing to make it more perfect, then it will be treated to a full belly rust proof and re-applicaiton of underseal.
Edited by davebem on Sunday 31st December 16:56
The passenger side rear floor has had some minor future proof welding done, all the rust is cut out re-welded and gone now. The inside of the body was then rust proofed, which compromised removing sound deadening, rubbing down the areas with loose paint and surface rust then criss-cross coating with bilthamber rust converter. Then it was painted further with rust proof paint. On the rear floor pans new sound deadending was re-applied making sure it was pushed into the corrugated floor channels. The inside box sections in the sills and the box sections under the front seats were sprayed with spare can of waxoil where I couldn’t get to it with the bilthamber. All that’s left is to do is the outer rust protection underneath, its been too cold and damp to do that this weekend! The plan is to linish off all any loose underseal to bare metal, coat with bilthamber, paint then Dinotrol 447.
It may not be to everyones taste but I refitted the Tan interior rather than the red interior as it is pretty much concours condition and looked nice. The Tan seats were a tad lighter than the later red ones because it looks like the early seats have magnesium base and frames. The tan ones don’t have the connector for the seat belt light but light on the dash is still going out! I also fitted the wooden steering wheel and a new-old stock wooden gear knob rather than the leather ones. I like how the steering wheel feels, I love the Italian-ness of the early interior, theres no cup holders...but you get 3 ash trays ;-) and no steering wheel buttons, driver aids or phone connectivity to distract from the driving experience. The cassette deck is connected up to the cd changer in the boot.
It may not be to everyones taste but I refitted the Tan interior rather than the red interior as it is pretty much concours condition and looked nice. The Tan seats were a tad lighter than the later red ones because it looks like the early seats have magnesium base and frames. The tan ones don’t have the connector for the seat belt light but light on the dash is still going out! I also fitted the wooden steering wheel and a new-old stock wooden gear knob rather than the leather ones. I like how the steering wheel feels, I love the Italian-ness of the early interior, theres no cup holders...but you get 3 ash trays ;-) and no steering wheel buttons, driver aids or phone connectivity to distract from the driving experience. The cassette deck is connected up to the cd changer in the boot.
Nice to see she's still running in some form, Dave. 156's get rarer by the day, particularly the V6. I just got mine back after a clutch change and new anti roll bar links (damn things are made of chocolate and get killed by the speed bumps round where I live) and I'm still enjoying driving her. She does need some rust proofing very soon, in the same areas yours has suffered, but it'll get done because I'm not letting her go. I looked on Auto trader the other day and there are only 5 156's on there - one of them a V6, up for very strong money.
Been toying with a Wizard backbox for mine - I'm not expecting GTV6 levels of epic exhaust note from just a backbox and no change to the unequal pipes, but some of the YouTube videos of cars with wizard bits do sound very tasty...
Been toying with a Wizard backbox for mine - I'm not expecting GTV6 levels of epic exhaust note from just a backbox and no change to the unequal pipes, but some of the YouTube videos of cars with wizard bits do sound very tasty...
Thanks Im really pleased with the interior, its a nice relaxing place to be.
I submitted engine number and CC change to DVLA with letter explaining Ive done it myself and included images from this thread of the work. I was slightly nervous it would need an inspection or something, but took the gamble thinking they would appreciate my honesty and attention to detail. Sure enough 2 weeks later I got the amended V5 back no questions asked. Im not sure what man maths they used to calculate my V6 Tax, its is now £60 cheaper (£245 Per year). On the V5 the model vs engine CC might confuse a new owner, but Im never gonna sell it!
I submitted engine number and CC change to DVLA with letter explaining Ive done it myself and included images from this thread of the work. I was slightly nervous it would need an inspection or something, but took the gamble thinking they would appreciate my honesty and attention to detail. Sure enough 2 weeks later I got the amended V5 back no questions asked. Im not sure what man maths they used to calculate my V6 Tax, its is now £60 cheaper (£245 Per year). On the V5 the model vs engine CC might confuse a new owner, but Im never gonna sell it!
davebem said:
^Nice colour, how did you get on tracking it? I cant help but think if I didnt remove my rear wing for the Donnigton ,it would not have spun!!
Sorry I took months to answer this Dave! Well, I got on fine at Castle Combe except that as soon as I arrived the car started misfiring and carried on all day.....grrr. Handling and brakes - wise it was great, as I had fitted 4-pot Brembos and 305mm discs and uprated rear anti-roll bar. It also has Koni adjustables fitted which make a big difference. Your car looks really superb and well done for all that time and effort. I'm also in the process of restoring, respraying and fitting a tan interior too. What great taste you have. ;0)
unclejam said:
Sorry I took months to answer this Dave! Well, I got on fine at Castle Combe except that as soon as I arrived the car started misfiring and carried on all day.....grrr. Handling and brakes - wise it was great, as I had fitted 4-pot Brembos and 305mm discs and uprated rear anti-roll bar. It also has Koni adjustables fitted which make a big difference.
Your car looks really superb and well done for all that time and effort. I'm also in the process of restoring, respraying and fitting a tan interior too. What great taste you have. ;0)
Thanks, Im still waiting for warmer drier weather do do the underneath rust proofiing and Dinotrol underseal as its still a lot of bare/linished metal under there, then its finished! Did you fit GTA hubs with the Brembos of use adapters?Your car looks really superb and well done for all that time and effort. I'm also in the process of restoring, respraying and fitting a tan interior too. What great taste you have. ;0)
Hi Dave, I didn't do either - I bought new Mito 4-pot Brembos off Dan at Autolusso, they bolt right on with no mods except for GTV 305mm discs.
They are far better than the standard setup, even with the "cooking" Alfa pads supplied with the calipers. My car is currently in the garage getting a few problem areas welded such as this below. Also the pan is being stripped, Dinitrol'd & undersealed, as well as MOT'd, cam belt, water pump, pulleys etc. etc. I've done quite a lot of the mechanicals myself but wish I had the facilities to do the derusting stuff too - my wallet is trembling!
When I get it back I'll post a couple of pictures. Next step is a full body resto and respray although that might have to wait until the Summer as it's not a cheap process is it? ;0)
They are far better than the standard setup, even with the "cooking" Alfa pads supplied with the calipers. My car is currently in the garage getting a few problem areas welded such as this below. Also the pan is being stripped, Dinitrol'd & undersealed, as well as MOT'd, cam belt, water pump, pulleys etc. etc. I've done quite a lot of the mechanicals myself but wish I had the facilities to do the derusting stuff too - my wallet is trembling!
When I get it back I'll post a couple of pictures. Next step is a full body resto and respray although that might have to wait until the Summer as it's not a cheap process is it? ;0)
Ive linished the floorpans lightly again, including going all along the sills, surface rust all along the drivers side. I then criss cross coated 2 layers of bilthamber hydrate80 rust proofer, then after 24 hrs using a spray gun put a layer of Dinotrol underseal on. Unfortunately I must have set my compressor too high because it was going everywhere and on too thick so started to drip off, finally got the regulator set quite low and it coated the rest nicely. Im a bit ashamed to take some pics yet because when it was going on heavily there was overspray on the fuel tank and subframe, but I did mask the centre section and brake/fuel pipes. Theres some tidying up to do underneath, and Ill redo the spare wheel well underseal at some point.
With the car complete, I decided to test everything once more and carry out my own preflight checks. The aim is to get everything working as it should:
- Airbag light on and passenger airbag disabled light on – In MES every single possible airbag error was present in a big scrolling list, cleared them all and they havnt come back *touches steering wheel wood*! I did cable tie the connections under the front seats to make sure they don’t get disturbed when sliding the seat.
- On the engine management side the diagnostics was complaining the throttle pedal had gone over its max threshold, cleared this, I think it was due to the pedal stop being removed when it had no interior.
- When the lights are on the alarm LED on the dash glows brightly. I found the connections for the alarm system are the same as some of the lighting circuit, I swapped the LED light and ash tray light connections round and now ok.
- Driver door stereo speaker wasn’t working, I gave it a heavy thump and now it is.
- Central locking works but no hazard flash or bleep. The alarm ecu is built into the siren hidden in the passenger side wing and I forgot to swap this over. Ill do this next time I need to remove the front wheels for something.
- ABS light on, I bled the brakes again but this time carrying out ABS pump drain and fill sequences. Wasn’t getting any air in the lines via the gunson until I got to the last front right where it was constant bubbles until the fluid hit the min mark.. Cleared ABS fault light.
- Mileage was wrong (50k), so I swapped the circuit board from the original V6 speedo, so now the mileage matches the engine, ecu and running gear (89k).
- Windscreen washer pump is leaking everywhere over the oil cooler, swapped it for spare one with rubber bung.
- The headlight washers spray all over the car except for the headlights, I can live with that.
- To my suprise all the electric windows work!
The car is outside today seeing sunshine for the 1st time in over a year. Ive put a new pair of number plates on and got MOT booked. Insurance is a Classic car policy with Lancaster, with the mods all declared for a reasonable price.
Quite possibly the trickiest bit of the whole conversion
With the car complete, I decided to test everything once more and carry out my own preflight checks. The aim is to get everything working as it should:
- Airbag light on and passenger airbag disabled light on – In MES every single possible airbag error was present in a big scrolling list, cleared them all and they havnt come back *touches steering wheel wood*! I did cable tie the connections under the front seats to make sure they don’t get disturbed when sliding the seat.
- On the engine management side the diagnostics was complaining the throttle pedal had gone over its max threshold, cleared this, I think it was due to the pedal stop being removed when it had no interior.
- When the lights are on the alarm LED on the dash glows brightly. I found the connections for the alarm system are the same as some of the lighting circuit, I swapped the LED light and ash tray light connections round and now ok.
- Driver door stereo speaker wasn’t working, I gave it a heavy thump and now it is.
- Central locking works but no hazard flash or bleep. The alarm ecu is built into the siren hidden in the passenger side wing and I forgot to swap this over. Ill do this next time I need to remove the front wheels for something.
- ABS light on, I bled the brakes again but this time carrying out ABS pump drain and fill sequences. Wasn’t getting any air in the lines via the gunson until I got to the last front right where it was constant bubbles until the fluid hit the min mark.. Cleared ABS fault light.
- Mileage was wrong (50k), so I swapped the circuit board from the original V6 speedo, so now the mileage matches the engine, ecu and running gear (89k).
- Windscreen washer pump is leaking everywhere over the oil cooler, swapped it for spare one with rubber bung.
- The headlight washers spray all over the car except for the headlights, I can live with that.
- To my suprise all the electric windows work!
The car is outside today seeing sunshine for the 1st time in over a year. Ive put a new pair of number plates on and got MOT booked. Insurance is a Classic car policy with Lancaster, with the mods all declared for a reasonable price.
Quite possibly the trickiest bit of the whole conversion
Sailed through MOT with no advisorys. Still a few tidyup jobs to do underneath to make it perfect, but on an initial run I did make the 170 mile round trip to the AROC Spring Alfa day with no hiccups. The long run appears to have done the car some good blowing the cobwebs away, the brakes are biting so much better and engine so much more responsive than before, the eibach springs have settled now to an ideal ride height, the car seems to turn in better when cornering hard. Ive forgotten how great the Busso V6 sounds and how eventful journeys are in this car, it was comfortable motorway crusing although the leather seats cause a lot of backsweat, but in the sun it smells like one of those leather wallet/handbag tourist shops you get in Spain.
Alfa car meets are different to the norm which adds to the ownership experience, so many diverse owners with diverse cars from Alfas ups and downs through the years, some good, some maybe not so good, but all interesting, driver focussed, full of character, and historically significant in one way or another.
More pics (external link to auto italia magazine facebook page).
https://www.facebook.com/pg/autoitaliamagazine/pho...
Alfa car meets are different to the norm which adds to the ownership experience, so many diverse owners with diverse cars from Alfas ups and downs through the years, some good, some maybe not so good, but all interesting, driver focussed, full of character, and historically significant in one way or another.
More pics (external link to auto italia magazine facebook page).
https://www.facebook.com/pg/autoitaliamagazine/pho...
Edited by davebem on Tuesday 24th April 20:07
Lovely to see one of these getting so much love, many years ago (so many I can't remember the number plate) I inherited a 2.5V6 as a short term company car... It had been ordered new by one of our directors with a really odd spec - green corduroy style seats and no rear spoiler which was a shame (I always prefer leather and the rear spoiler makes the 156 shape I think) but despite this I enjoyed running around in it for a few months until my Impreza arrived.
Nice work on the do-over OP, hope you enjoy your car.
Nice work on the do-over OP, hope you enjoy your car.
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