Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super

Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super

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Discussion

Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Monday 16th May 2022
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So you think this car is a keeper?
That's another load of commitment. Your updates are always great, but the amount of love this alfa is getting is amazing. Once your done will there be any original suspension or drivetrain components left to replace?

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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I don't think there's many scenarios where I would be parted from this car.

Even thr ULEZ discussions led to both mt wife and I discussion where it would live or how many times a year we would use it, whereas replacements for the other members of the fleet were examined and shortlisted.

I never thought I would own a car for 9 years, let alone an Alfa, but its part of my mental fabric now - my reference point for sharp and unfussy all purpose driving. It is both the absolute average and utterly unique driving proposition concurrently.

I am more excited than ever to complete the underside rebuild I started a spreadsheet for in 2016, and finally take it on an alpine tour this year.

This is, hopefully, just the beginning.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
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Midpoint update:

The rear cross member and various rear important bits are being powder coated, the front calipers are back from Bigg Red in sparkling condition and a date with Phil at Alfacraft set for tackling all the remaining jobs to get the 164 back on the road.

With the battery disconnected and the car unlikely to move until then, I decided to instigate a long overdue item on the 'to do' list - the speakers. These had long since perished, and although the exhaust note has been the most perfect companion to driving since fitting, I was keen to actually have the car ready for long distance Miami Vice - themed 80s night drives to the correct array of tunes.



Front door cards were overdue a general clean and spruce up - goal is to refresh the speaker grilles, remove problematic crumbling foam that gets (as Anakin would put it) everywhere, and renew all speakers themselves.

The front air duct twists off, the window switches pop out with a screwdriver and then there is the usual exciting puzzle of hidden screws, bolts, interior poper fittings, wires and clips that we all love to break when enacting anything door card related.





Oh yes the light at the bottom of the door. Very executive.



Tweeters...



A quick wrestle with the door release mechanism and it was off. Original speakers have long since degenerated. This will become a theme.





"I hate foam. Its so course and rough and irritating. And it gets everywhere."



6.5in fronts in the Series 2 164 rather than the 5.25in in the Series 1. Verified.



Reason for grille rust - damp foam.



Passenger door in simialr state. Less clips were lost in this process.



On to the rears - this was much easier as the parcel shelf covers just popped off, and there were 4 7mm bolts for each 6x9 unit.



The foam though... my goodness. This was a disster. Imagine a bad toffee pudding from a busy pub, left in the sun for a few years for the wiring to sink in to. There was also some foam sound deadening mat that had likewise trasmorgrified into some Geiger-esque goo. All of this was expunged with wild abandon, and the splash damage to seats and boot hastily removed before it could do any mroe harm. Awful job.









Done. Pioneer units ordered, and I need some 'dark grey' rather than black paint for these grilles.

More to follow.

Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
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Great work, as always!
Have you thought about any additional sound deadening? I stuck a load in my clio and it's amazing how much better the speakers sound with it.

Captain_Morgan

1,225 posts

58 months

Monday 20th June 2022
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Yep you’d be surprised how much difference some sound deadening makes,

Also looks like someone’s been in there before and added those tweeters.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Thursday 23rd June 2022
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Good point - I do have some sticky mats somewhere and the boot is the primary target for deadening. The cabin of the car is very well lined and I don't want to pull up the carpet at the mo, but will see what can be added in doors and parcel shelf.

The tweeters were a factory option - I had to rellace the driver's side a few years ago. Will see how if sounds one the new units are in...

Speakers have arrived and look correct, plus the grilles are resplendent after some treatment and new paint coats this week.


Captain_Morgan

1,225 posts

58 months

Thursday 23rd June 2022
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That’s interesting that they are factory, assuming the door speakers were also factory as it’s running co-axial speakers so depending what’s happening with the crossovers it’s 2 tweeters per door.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Thursday 23rd June 2022
quotequote all
I believe I have solved this mystery - there is a bill in 1999 for 'fitting new passenger door trim'. The passenger side has the 1-way round paper cone, the driver's side the coaxial with central tweeter.

I believe the car came with matching coaxials, as it was the last half of Series 2 production, but when the new trim was fitted they replaced it with a paper cone on that side.

WHen I bought the car the missing tweeters bothered me, so I fitted a pair, not noticing the coaxial mismatch.

Will likely leave the tweeters unplugged given the new Pioneers have all that tweeterage embedded.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
quotequote all
THis is goign ratehr too well for a 164 update - the new units from Pioneer are a perfect match, and having dispensed with all their additional brackets and grilles they slot in perfectly with the original cleaned-up gaskets and fittings.





The grilles were gently de-bent and de-kinked, wire brushed, Bilt Hambered and then sprayed with a few coats of relatively tough paint. This makes a significant difference for me!



For the connectors - I toyed with soldering/splicing the supplied terminals onto the original Alfa connectors, but resorted to disassembling the original Alfa connectors from their plugs and gently bending them to be snug fits for the new Pioneer units.







The little 'click' when the tiny spring mounted item caught was very reassuring.

Rears in...







Fronts in...



A quick test with a reconnected battery and a few favourites.. Gosh. Its not hi-fi, but it is a huge improvement! I'm glad I selected Pioneer speakers of ~40W to match the Pioneer bluetooth head unit I fitted a few years ago. Nothing untoward, just straightforward sound!

I tightened everything up and refitted the rear grilles having reattached them to the plastic box covers.



Question for all those with car audio experience - shall I reconnect the standalone door handle tweeters? My initial reaction is to not - there's no additional amp, the fronts are now both coaxial and the tweeters may overlap a little, even if the small stereo amp is up for 6 speakers vs 4.

Any thoguhts?

As for the front - I am in no rush, so have decided to fix a few bits of cracked trim. Clear Gorilla glue is working on the smaller items, but for a large central crack I am going to experiment with one of these 'hot staplers'.





I also want to replace some of the old or missing trim clips - I definitely have a box of 7894 assorted interior trims frm eBay somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.

I also realised this was the perfect time to repair the folding action on the driver's mirror that has not worked since purchase - the motor whizzes away but likely a cog dislodged or broken. I dimly recall purchasing a spare mirror some time in history, so need to delve into the caves for that one too.



Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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I've always wanted to have a go with a hot stapler. They look great in the adverts.

StescoG66

2,108 posts

142 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Disconnect the additional tweeters otherwise the impedance to the head unit will be wrong and could cause damage.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Saturday 23rd July 2022
quotequote all
Cambs_Stuart said:
I've always wanted to have a go with a hot stapler. They look great in the adverts.
Exactly - let's see what happens...

StescoG66 said:
Disconnect the additional tweeters otherwise the impedance to the head unit will be wrong and could cause damage.
Thank you - will do.



The Rear

Day 0 - Prep Work

Ok, 164 fanciers, get ready for The Big One - a full week of work ending with The Festival Of The Unexceptional on the 30th July.

For full manufactured TV peril voiceover - is it possible to rebuild the rear end, dial in the new coilovers, replace the brake calipers, repair the splurting rusting brake lines, complete rust remedial work, refit some interior, complete a full valet, fit new tyres and alloys in time for a road trip to Grimsthorpe?

Well, probably.

Current situation - we left the poor 164 with brake fluid oozing from the front calipers after the rebuild of the Front. A near-death fretful 20mph limp was not how I imagined the first drive on front coiovers would go, but such is Alfa life. The car has languished outside, and is now 2.7% spiders and cobwebs by weight.





Front door cards, interior trim and wing mirrors are in various states of segregated progress around the house.

1. A donor subframe sourced in The Haul (see Eyes passim) has been collected from powder coaters along with a bevy of rear suspension components.



2. Front caliper donors were sourced some years ago and have returned from Bigg Redd, along with new pads.

3. New bushes await all circular apertures.

4. New belts for the trusty finger sander ready to deal with rust as it crops up.

With two days booked at Alfacraft, the weather thankfully less akin to an outtake from the film Sunshine and a full week off work, I am very excited to tidy, repair and renew as much as possible.

First challenge - how to limp the car back for all this work? I decided to crimp the front left as best I could, and encapsulate the offending end in a rubber hose, running it to a 'catch can' under the car, as I want to avoid Dot 4 getting anywhere near all the shiny new front components.







I hope you are all admiring the engine mount, wishbone, strut and subframe in that picture with barely concealed admiration.

Next up - prep the rear rustiness as much as possible with PlusGas. Note the amount of spiderthread. That is currently structural.









Finally - given my abortive attempts at wing mirror painting (a story for another time...) I just bolted on a blue metallic NOS item that I had purchased about 8 years ago.



Ok. All set.






Edited by Spinakerr on Saturday 23 July 22:18

Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Sunday 24th July 2022
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Looking forward to this. The last trip to alfacraft unfolded with the drama of a slow burning episode of Better Call Saul.

MJK 24

5,648 posts

235 months

Monday 25th July 2022
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More!

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Wednesday 27th July 2022
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The Rear

Day 1 - A New Hope

I giddily prepped morning coffee, dog treats and donned overalls for the first day at the workshop, bounded downstairs and joined the hilariously trudging traffic to Alfacraft. Fortunately the sheer volume of grumpy morning cars meant I rarely left first gear and the handbrake was seldom used; only a few heart stopping moments as fools swerved across lanes, desperate to make up a car length or two at 8am. My jerry-rigged catch can prevented any unwanted DOT4 circulation.

The dusty, cobwebbed Alfa limped onto the lift and would not be leaving until properly roadworthy. Phil made me a cup of tea. I gave a treat to Senna.



We got stuck in.



The plan for the first day was rear strut removal and subframe replacement, then assess what parts of the rear suspension required further adjustment. Every 30 minutes I would annoy Phil by breaking out the finger sander, chemicals and treat as much rust as possible while it was accessible. First up - wheels off, 17mm long bolts that secure the bottom of the struts out.





Amazingly, with breaker bars and two of us they came out without too much bother. There is an array of washers and spacers that I had to document to ensure nothing interferes at full travel. The hubs, like the front, are a bit cruddy but without defects.

The trim in the boot covers the two strut tops, but gently prying it back revealed the three 13mm nuts on both sides, and remarkbly the strusts were out before the 34th cup of tea of the morning.





New and... fossilised. Amazingly, the struts and springs still function within reasonableness. But there would defenitely need to be completely rebuilt and decrustified to be salvageable. I will tuck them away.



If the Munsters needed garage props...



Naturally, I spent a good few hours derusting the turrets with the sander, sorting out any worrying items, treating and stonechipping what I could.













Blue stuff from Bilt Hamber...





That's better...



New struts in without drama, no annoying alloy blocks to salavage from the originals, and with those in a lot fo the assembly was supported so we could tackle the subframe without too many bits falling on our precious skulls.



Various other bolts securing the handbrake cable, brackets and fripperies were loosened or removed according to Phil's knowledge.

This time I was determined not to spend hours at the end figuring out what went where, so enlisted some cardboard as a punctured inventory.




Next up - the subframe. I had treated the potentially-irreplaceable bolts securing it for a few weeks and even Phil was surprised when they loosened without too much effort. That was a big 'phew!' moment. The brake lines for the rear run througha central block attached to the subframe by 13mm bolts. This is hinged to react to suspension travel, and must be carefully removed. The lower adjustable control arms (at rear) also loosened their hold without drama, and the front (non adjustable) supports yielded soon after.







With the two of us handling it the subframe came out without drama, and a LOT of crud. Similar state to the struts then.








Phil said 'I've seen worse. At least this one is still in one piece.'!

We compared the replacements with powder coating to the old, and I broke out the packs of new bushes I had ready for pressing.

Herein we met our first snag - the 8 control arm bushes I had been sold were, in fact, stub axle bushes (of which there only two on the 164, for the longitudinally mounted transverse arms). Blast. After a fair bit of bush prodding with implements, we elected to tidy up the (not dreadful) existing arms, and I would attempt to track down new bushes to install in the new powder coated items for a supplemental visit.



Not the end of the Alfa world, but frustrating nonetheless.

The brake block cradle went in with copper slip and careful adjustment while the derusting paint dried elsewhere.



You know everything is going to plan when shiny things go on the car...





That took us to 5pm, so I still had an hour or two sanding and removing rust spots underneath, nipping up exhaust manifold bolts I hd forgotten last time and generally treating it all to a freshen up. By this time my camera was on life support so no photos, but a lot has been improved. Sadly brake disc dust covers are rarer than rare for this car, so the old ones had to go back on.

Phil consistently calls me names for taking pictures, but when reassembling he grudgingly accepted that after cleaning up all bolts, spaces and arms they were useful in getting the ordering right. Wonders will never cease.

With the rear all bolted up, Phil gave me the keys to another 100HP Panda and we called it a night.














Edited by Spinakerr on Wednesday 27th July 15:20

Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Wednesday 27th July 2022
quotequote all
Great and throughly entertaining update, despite the lack of drama. Looking forward to Part 2.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Wednesday 27th July 2022
quotequote all
Thanks, as always - getting there...!

The Rear

Day 2 - The Calipers Strike Back

A 7am start is never welcome - unless you're going to be working on your Alfa Romeo! The 100HP Panda, complete with fake Abarth stickers, Ragazzon exhaust and crashy suspension spirited me to Alfacraft without a ULEZ charge, and I ensured we were fully stocked with scotch eggs and milk.

With the rear setup inexplicably finished ahead of schedule, we turned out attention to the front braking system.



...after saying good morning to Senna, naturally:



With the split brake line eliciting a litany of expletives from Phil, I busied myself on the other side removing the ABS sensor, loosening the caliper carrier and taking a note of everything on the hub.



The new calipers looked expecially fetching:



The small caliper to union pipes were very, very seized and even after a decidedly hot interrogation Phil decided to make up new ones.



I had in the stores spare flexi hoses and various clips and unions, but while Phil tackled the pipes I resumed some de-crudding and spot sanding of suspect patches along the underside.

15mm bolts for the calipers came out easily, fortunately so did the 13mm for the pad carriers. Phil remember he had changed the pads ~6 year ago, so took credit for loosenign things for me.



Offside went on relative easily, and I started to faff about with pipes, clips and hoses while Phil looked into the actual broken line.



As luck would have it, the sheared pipe had a union under the airbox, so turned out to be @18 inches rather than the ridiculous full item to the ABS unit as feared.

Airbox and MAF out...







Troublesome leak areas was cleaned and de-DOT4ed to prevent further paint loss.



Et voila! One emergent pipe, latterly fettled into the correct arrangement.



It was around midday - I thought we had this in the bag... but after lunch on a pressure tester, several leaks in the system made themselves known.



There followed an afternoon of brake fluid-slicked fingers and curses as we chased drips, tightened things, clipped stuff, repositioned lines...you name it... painful but (we think) successful. At 4pm Phil rightly went off to meet customers and deal with other problems.

I adjusted the fronts down by 20cm from my reference point... the rears I completely guessed. My first hint they were off significantly was when the ramp wouldn't disengage on the floor!



I have raised the rear up a fair amount time was short and I reasoned I could adjust at home or when I get to Micheldever for the wheels and tyres...

Late in the day, many more bits tidied and a few other minor items checked - done!

I reversed the car out carefully...the brakes were holding fluid but the drive home was very careful. There's defintiely still work to do ont he ride height - rear needs to go up ~15mm and front maybe down 5mm to get to an even amount of factor spec all round. The brakes are a little spongey but as I haven't got above 30 yet I'mm drive it tomorrow, bed things in correctly and drop by Phil for a final bleed if not properly firm.

Tomorrow - refitting interior after the new speakers, some wing mirror and cosmetic work... and ride height. Phew.

shalmaneser

5,930 posts

194 months

Wednesday 27th July 2022
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Great work! I always find it's worthwhile rebleeding the brakes after I've done some part swapping. Let's things settle down a bit.

carinaman

21,214 posts

171 months

Thursday 28th July 2022
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Good work. Nice to see Senna supervising.

Spinakerr

Original Poster:

1,164 posts

144 months

Thursday 28th July 2022
quotequote all

The Rear

Day 3 - Return Of The Buckets

A day not at Alfacraft with Phil and Senna was a little strange, but I quickly shook off any nostalgia by emptying the car of all the rusty nonsense, tools, chemicals and paraphenalia for the jobs, That took a while, and everything that came off the car was sent to the secretive Alfa 164 collective for scrutinisation and salvaging. If you want to see grown Alfisti go ga-ga, show them an original front strut assembly and rear crossmember for a 164.

The drive home had been ... ok... a bit crashy at the back and vague at the front, so plenty of work to do on the setup of the car. I therefore decided to give it a proper clean. You name it - snow foam, clay bar, twelve bucket method and so on.





150g of bilt hamber's finest - 98% pure...



Polish and wax will go on later with a friend assisting, but as you will all appreciate the purging of dust, grit, cobwebs, tar and associated detritus from my precious 164 was truly theraupeutic moment.

Having spent a few cups of coffee consulting the Alfa forums, I was aiming to adjust ride height to ~25 1/2 inches at the front and ~26 inches at the back. Leaving Alfacraft on Tuesday in furtive Mafia-inspired sinister hurry, I had 25 3/8 at the front and below 25 at the rear (!).

I spent a good few hours adjusting the strusts - it got easier each time and I started wiht raising the rears equally. Oh for 2 post lift and a rattle gun for taking wheels off! Everything was done by hand, so each corner involved the jack, wheel bolts, socket set... but the coilovers themselves are a doddle to set. Simply loosent he bottom collar with a supplied tool and the rotate the entire strut - keep measuring and lock the collar down when done.



The rear's had me confused until I discover the top spring section was different fromt he supplier by 5mm - finally done, and the fronts lowered down.

There's also a hole in the tool for a 1/2in drive bar to tighten down at the end.



Aha! Correct lines achieved. For now.



A few test drives followed to check everything - still a little crashy at the rear. It transpires the rear was set to 'max soft', 1 out of 33 stops, so I moved it up to 8 per some Alfa knowledge, and checked the fronts were at 12 clicks, which seems the starting point.

Top tip - ensure the long allen-ended adjuster is in strut before you install it - I think it might be impossible to add afterward!



In between washing, adjustment and drying times I faffed about making a mockery of spray painting for the driver's wing mirror aluminium mount. The first round of this two weeks ago ended with me muttering off in a huff at crazed/cracked paint.

This time round, after careful sanding and carefuller (?) spraying in a windproof cardboard booth, it appears to be going better:



None too shabby:





Oh wait what are these packages from 2017? Ah.....




Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 31st July 09:56