Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super
Discussion
Finally, I have a straight braking car, and a working handbrake!
The new calipers I had refurbished at Bigg Red returned, in good working order. Unfortunately still some speck of rust and nastiness that needed to be chased out. Not entirely impressed:
2017-08-06_03-47-19 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
However, time was pressing so these had to go on at Alfacraft. All went well, the new handbrake cable previously fitted was adjusted and the new discs and pads from earlier are more settled bedfellows with these carriers.
2017-08-06_03-43-08 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
The old calipers look salvageable:
2017-08-06_03-43-53 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
The troublesome clutch line was the main leak, as suspected - it has become porous and recent jostling has exacerbated the leak:
2017-08-06_03-44-10 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
I new braided hose was made up at Alfacraft's Hounslow contacts, and (so far) it is leak free.
2017-08-06_03-42-47 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Unfortunately this hasn't cured the clutch 100% - it has free play at the top and likely needs the clevis pin redrilled. Oh and did I mention the other leak at the master cylinder? No? Right. Well, back to it.
The new calipers I had refurbished at Bigg Red returned, in good working order. Unfortunately still some speck of rust and nastiness that needed to be chased out. Not entirely impressed:
2017-08-06_03-47-19 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrHowever, time was pressing so these had to go on at Alfacraft. All went well, the new handbrake cable previously fitted was adjusted and the new discs and pads from earlier are more settled bedfellows with these carriers.
2017-08-06_03-43-08 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThe old calipers look salvageable:
2017-08-06_03-43-53 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThe troublesome clutch line was the main leak, as suspected - it has become porous and recent jostling has exacerbated the leak:
2017-08-06_03-44-10 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrI new braided hose was made up at Alfacraft's Hounslow contacts, and (so far) it is leak free.
2017-08-06_03-42-47 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrUnfortunately this hasn't cured the clutch 100% - it has free play at the top and likely needs the clevis pin redrilled. Oh and did I mention the other leak at the master cylinder? No? Right. Well, back to it.
To bring this thread up to date, the clutch saga was finally resolved with the replacement of the master cylinder and comprehensive bleeding.
Following the slave, plate and various hose upgrades the master cylinder completed the tontine and expired gently, letting the pedal go completely limp. It is relatively easy to purchase part number 60511530, but this is the LHD unit. For RHD, Alfa gave up trying to rearrange the area and just rooted around the parts bin for something that would fit.
A quick survey of my cross reference spreadsheet provided part number 60809183, which was predictably used on the Lancia Thema (RHD) but also, strangely, the Delta Integrale (82451850), which of course was only supplied in LHD...
Luckily Phil at Alfacraft was determined to resolve the issue and took on this fiddly job, so I don't have picture apart from the dead unit:
2017-09-30_09-28-15 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
The clevis pin hole was also redrilled to reset the pedal, a standard mod at the time and, my goodness, for the first time in my ownership I had a firm, accurate, silent clutch with no play.
Of course, I immediately purchased another car (see my Triumph GT6 thread) and have not used the car since, but this weekend Somerset beckons so it's time to fire up the twinspark.
Following the slave, plate and various hose upgrades the master cylinder completed the tontine and expired gently, letting the pedal go completely limp. It is relatively easy to purchase part number 60511530, but this is the LHD unit. For RHD, Alfa gave up trying to rearrange the area and just rooted around the parts bin for something that would fit.
A quick survey of my cross reference spreadsheet provided part number 60809183, which was predictably used on the Lancia Thema (RHD) but also, strangely, the Delta Integrale (82451850), which of course was only supplied in LHD...
Luckily Phil at Alfacraft was determined to resolve the issue and took on this fiddly job, so I don't have picture apart from the dead unit:
2017-09-30_09-28-15 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThe clevis pin hole was also redrilled to reset the pedal, a standard mod at the time and, my goodness, for the first time in my ownership I had a firm, accurate, silent clutch with no play.
Of course, I immediately purchased another car (see my Triumph GT6 thread) and have not used the car since, but this weekend Somerset beckons so it's time to fire up the twinspark.
HI EVERYONE,
just bought a 1996 164 twin spark 2.0
and after the car sat 2 weeks now it is very difficult to start from cold,
takes about 5 minutes most of the time.
Once warm starts immediately.
and very occassionally starts as normal first time from cold.
Does any 2.0 twin spark driver any experience with this problem???
just bought a 1996 164 twin spark 2.0
and after the car sat 2 weeks now it is very difficult to start from cold,
takes about 5 minutes most of the time.
Once warm starts immediately.
and very occassionally starts as normal first time from cold.
Does any 2.0 twin spark driver any experience with this problem???
This is seriously cool, can't remember when I last saw one.
Here's why, only 9 left (in your spec) in the country!
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/alfa_romeo_1...
Here's why, only 9 left (in your spec) in the country!
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/alfa_romeo_1...
Konrad1963 said:
HI EVERYONE,
just bought a 1996 164 twin spark 2.0
and after the car sat 2 weeks now it is very difficult to start from cold,
takes about 5 minutes most of the time.
Once warm starts immediately.
and very occassionally starts as normal first time from cold.
Does any 2.0 twin spark driver any experience with this problem???
Lots to check here - blocked/disintegrated fuel filter on the offside rear, starter motor slightly off or even the MAF being dud - whle load of stuff, but check the battery first!just bought a 1996 164 twin spark 2.0
and after the car sat 2 weeks now it is very difficult to start from cold,
takes about 5 minutes most of the time.
Once warm starts immediately.
and very occassionally starts as normal first time from cold.
Does any 2.0 twin spark driver any experience with this problem???
You know how it is with cars - they are working perfectly, you want to treat them to a Christmas present and they throw a tantrum.
I decided to get the very well behaved 164 a new battery, as the recent cold weather made starting slightly sluggish and the battery was 6 years old.
It's in the boot under some trim:
2017-12-26_03-06-26 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Loosen the 10mm terminals, 13mm for the bracket (which also holds a load of random fuses, see earlier in the thread, and it's out.
I have always used Varta batteries. No problems thus far.
Same size, more amps:
2017-12-26_03-06-49 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Bolted in, with fresh electrical compound:
2017-12-26_03-07-05 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
A hundred miles down to Somerset in the grey weather laden with festive supplies, no problem.
2017-12-26_03-08-32 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Of course, today in the pouring rain there was no sign of life. A dim boot light is always a bad sign...
2017-12-26_05-22-09 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
A quick jump from a nearby Micra yielded turnover, but also a plethora of flickering lights and strange behavior.
2017-12-26_05-22-27 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Something is awry - it will likely be something I disturbed when replacing the battery, so my Dad (as always) was on hand to dig out the battery charger and begin investigations. Pouring rain always helps the mood. Note the 80s GP4 battery charger from the archives.
2017-12-26_05-23-08 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Some of the wires on the terminals were loose, but it looks like the main terminal bolts are past their best, so we have added some washers in an attempt to get a tighter fit.
2017-12-26_05-23-33 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Battery charging, I'm drying out with tea. Another mince pie beckons. Blast.
I decided to get the very well behaved 164 a new battery, as the recent cold weather made starting slightly sluggish and the battery was 6 years old.
It's in the boot under some trim:
2017-12-26_03-06-26 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrLoosen the 10mm terminals, 13mm for the bracket (which also holds a load of random fuses, see earlier in the thread, and it's out.
I have always used Varta batteries. No problems thus far.
Same size, more amps:
2017-12-26_03-06-49 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrBolted in, with fresh electrical compound:
2017-12-26_03-07-05 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrA hundred miles down to Somerset in the grey weather laden with festive supplies, no problem.
2017-12-26_03-08-32 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrOf course, today in the pouring rain there was no sign of life. A dim boot light is always a bad sign...
2017-12-26_05-22-09 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrA quick jump from a nearby Micra yielded turnover, but also a plethora of flickering lights and strange behavior.
2017-12-26_05-22-27 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrSomething is awry - it will likely be something I disturbed when replacing the battery, so my Dad (as always) was on hand to dig out the battery charger and begin investigations. Pouring rain always helps the mood. Note the 80s GP4 battery charger from the archives.
2017-12-26_05-23-08 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrSome of the wires on the terminals were loose, but it looks like the main terminal bolts are past their best, so we have added some washers in an attempt to get a tighter fit.
2017-12-26_05-23-33 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrBattery charging, I'm drying out with tea. Another mince pie beckons. Blast.
Excellent progress. Alfas have a love hate relationship with their batteries, those jump leads look a bit skinny. I’ve learned (through bitter experience) that the only jump leads worth having are ones approved for use by lorry drivers or farmers.
On brake caliper refurbs, I’ve had excellent results from Brake Caliper Specialists - they’ve done the Alfetta, GT, GTA and diesel estate with no problems at all.
On brake caliper refurbs, I’ve had excellent results from Brake Caliper Specialists - they’ve done the Alfetta, GT, GTA and diesel estate with no problems at all.
Thanks for your messages - I made it back in one piece, in fact the alternator seems to have perked up and was charging normally, though it has a number of intermittent squeaks, rattles and unsettling noises so I'm going to replace it. Definitely a job for a lift and a warm workshop, so I'll tackle it in the new year.
It's not shared with the V6 as it's rated at 80A, for reference Bosch number 0120485025, or 0123310026. There's all sorts of used ones available over Europe but it seems difficult to get hold of a good new (or trusted refurbed) one here in the UK. Anyone know of a good source of Bosch refurbed alternators below 100 pounds?
It's not shared with the V6 as it's rated at 80A, for reference Bosch number 0120485025, or 0123310026. There's all sorts of used ones available over Europe but it seems difficult to get hold of a good new (or trusted refurbed) one here in the UK. Anyone know of a good source of Bosch refurbed alternators below 100 pounds?
rxe said:
Excellent progress. Alfas have a love hate relationship with their batteries, those jump leads look a bit skinny. I’ve learned (through bitter experience) that the only jump leads worth having are ones approved for use by lorry drivers or farmers.
On brake caliper refurbs, I’ve had excellent results from Brake Caliper Specialists - they’ve done the Alfetta, GT, GTA and diesel estate with no problems at all.
Yes that jumping experiment didn't last long, and don't worry they weren't my leads! The calipers are all working, I'm just surprised when these placed let items go back to customers with such obvious cosmetic issues. If they can't even get a bath and a spray right, what else hasn't been done to standard? Annoying.On brake caliper refurbs, I’ve had excellent results from Brake Caliper Specialists - they’ve done the Alfetta, GT, GTA and diesel estate with no problems at all.
It's been a while since I posted in Alfa-land, mainly because I haven't been using the Alfa too much over the winter and hadn't had the motivation to chase the battery parasite that has taken up residence. I did pass it every day, an unblinking Pininfarina stare reminding me of its presence...
20180228_070932 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
20180228_070946 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
As I shirked my responsibilities for winter maintenance and the weather worsened, it was with a grim sense of foreboding that I gave it a cursory once over, replaced the wiper blades and took it for an MOT. After changing the battery (random parasite cackling audibly from the bowels of the car) it begrudgingly started, and as a winter bonus the heated wing mirrors had responded to my fiddling:
20180217_082401 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
MOT pass with no advisories, through I was reminded that most of the bottom was getting crusty and will need refurbishment. Also, the seatbelt holder plastic disintegrated as he reversed it out. Thankfully this was after I had the certificate.
20180217_092508 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
So, onto spring and after a good hose down of the winter salt:
20180325_123616 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
I have been driving it more, tasks taking me further afield and this weekend a 250 mile round trip to Somerset in a day was covered with aplomb. Suitably rustic photos:
20180414_105517 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
20180414_105503 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
I'm still flummoxed by the battery parasite. Nothing for two weeks, then if I leave it any longer it's dead a doornail, with a number of chargers whinging 'BATTERY NEEDS REPLACEMENT' and I must resort to the 80s trickle versions. With a multimeter nothing over 2 milliamps it active. I checked the alarm is off, the glovebox light and boot switches were working but no luck. Bah.
It could be the alternator, which grumbles and squeaks anyway, leaking through and draining the battery when parked a certain way.
Any suggestions welcome!
20180228_070932 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr20180228_070946 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrAs I shirked my responsibilities for winter maintenance and the weather worsened, it was with a grim sense of foreboding that I gave it a cursory once over, replaced the wiper blades and took it for an MOT. After changing the battery (random parasite cackling audibly from the bowels of the car) it begrudgingly started, and as a winter bonus the heated wing mirrors had responded to my fiddling:
20180217_082401 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrMOT pass with no advisories, through I was reminded that most of the bottom was getting crusty and will need refurbishment. Also, the seatbelt holder plastic disintegrated as he reversed it out. Thankfully this was after I had the certificate.
20180217_092508 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrSo, onto spring and after a good hose down of the winter salt:
20180325_123616 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrI have been driving it more, tasks taking me further afield and this weekend a 250 mile round trip to Somerset in a day was covered with aplomb. Suitably rustic photos:
20180414_105517 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr20180414_105503 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrI'm still flummoxed by the battery parasite. Nothing for two weeks, then if I leave it any longer it's dead a doornail, with a number of chargers whinging 'BATTERY NEEDS REPLACEMENT' and I must resort to the 80s trickle versions. With a multimeter nothing over 2 milliamps it active. I checked the alarm is off, the glovebox light and boot switches were working but no luck. Bah.
It could be the alternator, which grumbles and squeaks anyway, leaking through and draining the battery when parked a certain way.
Any suggestions welcome!
RicksAlfas said:
I had a 145 which suffered from a sticking boot lid light sensor, so even if the bootlid was closed properly, the light would stay on.
I ended up taking the bulb out...
Thanks - this is an infuriating quirk, but I do think it's the alternator leaking out as everything else seems to be off completely when checked with a multimeter. I ended up taking the bulb out...
Long term readers (eh?) may recall my attempted to humpty-dumpty my seatbelt holder as it disintegrated over the years. Well, the fact that the sharp edges were marking my new seats, and a glare from my MOT man prompted me to track down another in the Alfa graveyards. Skeletonised unit as it had existed:
RicksAlfas said:
I had a 145 which suffered from a sticking boot lid light sensor, so even if the bootlid was closed properly, the light would stay on.
I ended up taking the bulb out...
It's a 17mm bolt but actually getting it out require unscrewing the centre console:I ended up taking the bulb out...
20180422_191529 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrAshtray is removed with a gentle pull, and two screws give enough movement to get the bolt out. I'm doing my best Renaissance hand here, with a screwdriver:
20180422_191904 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThat's easier.
20180422_192313 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrEt voila! Another annoyance of the list.
20180422_193314 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThe 164 has been gathering leaves and sap under a particularly awful tree the past month, and when it's fan stopped I feared the dreaded 'dash out' scenario to replace the motor. Still, best to check the basics first.
Fuse in the cabin looks good, so time to check the underbonnet fuse and relay. Oh...
20180617_171141 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
20180617_171209 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
The springtime has been cruel to the Alfa. Aside from a lot of leaves and moisture there is a surprising amount of actual soil, so I 'mucked it out' and mentally attempted to construct a suitable cover from my spare parts for the future. The relay was dangling free, submerged in muck but the fuse (40a orange) was all ok:
20180617_171222 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
20180617_171716 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
I borrowed a A727 50A from the boot (rear window demist cycler I think) and the fans blew triumphantly. Phew! AN easy fix to averse evaporation in traffic this summer.
20180617_173111 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
A quick scrummage with a torch revealed the correct wall hanging appratus where it should be clipped:
20180617_173544 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr
Hopefully that keeps it happy for the moment.
Fuse in the cabin looks good, so time to check the underbonnet fuse and relay. Oh...
20180617_171141 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr20180617_171209 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrThe springtime has been cruel to the Alfa. Aside from a lot of leaves and moisture there is a surprising amount of actual soil, so I 'mucked it out' and mentally attempted to construct a suitable cover from my spare parts for the future. The relay was dangling free, submerged in muck but the fuse (40a orange) was all ok:
20180617_171222 by Clifton Tausberger, on Flickr20180617_171716 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrI borrowed a A727 50A from the boot (rear window demist cycler I think) and the fans blew triumphantly. Phew! AN easy fix to averse evaporation in traffic this summer.
20180617_173111 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrA quick scrummage with a torch revealed the correct wall hanging appratus where it should be clipped:
20180617_173544 by Clifton Tausberger, on FlickrHopefully that keeps it happy for the moment.
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 17th June 22:53
MOT time for the 164.
The Alfa had been SORNed for 6 months as my wife's Saab, the Rover 75, weddings, house development all the other life excuses got in the way. Last weekend it started up and blew a good load of nonsense out of the exhaust. It hates not being driven. Heaters on, doors open, I carefully dried the inside of the windows and pulls the leaves out of the scuttle. I was ashamed - it's done nothing but be an Alfa and due to a smirking battery parasite I have ignored it for long enough - time to get it back into regular use!
Some fresh Premum non-Pb helped, and as a few miles of local pottering passed everything eased up nicely. I went through my MOT list, pumped up the tyres and wiped off the worst of any winter sludge...no more delays...
Passed. Phew.
The electrical gremlin (or perhaps 'foletto') has revealed itself in the MOT bay - flickering headlights. In the zero position on the stalk, the sidelights come on, flickering and/or very dimly, about 8 seconds after the car is locked. With the key in, they are on dipped at 0, nothing on 'sidelights' and dipped/full as normal on 'lights on'. Hmm!
Luckily, Phil over at Alfacraft is nearby and I went to catch up with him. We pulled relays, cleaned contacts and even had a friendly electrician help with some prodding. No joy.
Given my experience with the fan relay and other truculent items on the car, I'm going to pull every relay and fuse, sand the contacts, check and reinstall with electrical grease. First port of call - the driver's side smart fuse box, with a professional hinge, cable, excellent labelling and little light (that also now flickers):
Sleeves up, work to be done...
The Alfa had been SORNed for 6 months as my wife's Saab, the Rover 75, weddings, house development all the other life excuses got in the way. Last weekend it started up and blew a good load of nonsense out of the exhaust. It hates not being driven. Heaters on, doors open, I carefully dried the inside of the windows and pulls the leaves out of the scuttle. I was ashamed - it's done nothing but be an Alfa and due to a smirking battery parasite I have ignored it for long enough - time to get it back into regular use!
Some fresh Premum non-Pb helped, and as a few miles of local pottering passed everything eased up nicely. I went through my MOT list, pumped up the tyres and wiped off the worst of any winter sludge...no more delays...
Passed. Phew.
The electrical gremlin (or perhaps 'foletto') has revealed itself in the MOT bay - flickering headlights. In the zero position on the stalk, the sidelights come on, flickering and/or very dimly, about 8 seconds after the car is locked. With the key in, they are on dipped at 0, nothing on 'sidelights' and dipped/full as normal on 'lights on'. Hmm!
Luckily, Phil over at Alfacraft is nearby and I went to catch up with him. We pulled relays, cleaned contacts and even had a friendly electrician help with some prodding. No joy.
Given my experience with the fan relay and other truculent items on the car, I'm going to pull every relay and fuse, sand the contacts, check and reinstall with electrical grease. First port of call - the driver's side smart fuse box, with a professional hinge, cable, excellent labelling and little light (that also now flickers):
Sleeves up, work to be done...
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