Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super
Discussion
rxe said:
That radiator is letting the side down now! :-)
On the rubber things - probably worth stripping them out and seeing if they are actually cracked - they might be folded over, or have the sort of cracks that can be botched togeher with a dab of silicone or similar.
I don't think it's the right radiator - some of the fitting and angles just don't look right. It might be a phase 1 item on a phase 2 car.On the rubber things - probably worth stripping them out and seeing if they are actually cracked - they might be folded over, or have the sort of cracks that can be botched togeher with a dab of silicone or similar.
I'm determined to find the rubber sleeves! Sooner or later this planet must yield a quadron of manicottos from a dusty corner or Europe...
MarkwG said:
I recall mine had a rubber cover over the radiator, clipped to that panel - that covered up the rad so you couldn't see the top tank, hence cosmetic rattyness didn't matter so much.
Yes! I knew I had seen something in the house move amongst the piles of 'unknown but likely useful' - here it is!
IMAG3816_zps1gh2ldyp by James Vincent, on FlickrB&W shot with the wrong colour balance/contrast:
IMAG3815_zpsskofmqsm by James Vincent, on FlickrEdited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:47
Spinakerr said:
Yes! I knew I had seen something in the house move amongst the piles of 'unknown but likely useful' - here it is!
- & you're right about the rad, looks like a get-you-home fix. I changed mine, easy job back then even for a clot like me, & the old girl still got us home from Southport before I changed it - most of the fins fell out as I removed it...!Thank you for this thread.
Regarding the rubbers - its a long shot but the Vectra V6 used a very similar item on the inlet manifold. Its well worth googling/buying. In fact, here is an ebay ad - http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vectra-B-2-5v6-X25XE-4-Pie...
Regarding the rubbers - its a long shot but the Vectra V6 used a very similar item on the inlet manifold. Its well worth googling/buying. In fact, here is an ebay ad - http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vectra-B-2-5v6-X25XE-4-Pie...
LarJammer said:
Regarding the rubbers - its a long shot but the Vectra V6 used a very similar item on the inlet manifold. Its well worth googling/buying.
Yes there are various possibilities from other models, but most have the same inlet and outlt dimensions, like the Vectra. 45mm inlet diameter, 55mm outlet, 45mm tall - that's the target. All contributions welcome!Hever Castle today was great fun - Southern Alfa Day with a castle, grounds and garden for my girlfriend - I am now only attending car shows that has a setting that can ameliorate any raised eyebrows from an early start at a weekend.
I think I would be happy with the gatehouse, let along the actual castle:
IMAG3828_zpsqwqjtbwr by James Vincent, on Flickr
Parking was by colour, so we ended up in the sinister section:
IMAG3855_zpszp2nbp96 by James Vincent, on Flickr
At the moat a 'tricolor' had been organised, with the only other 164 (24V, no less) in a rather fetching shade of green:
IMAG3834_zpskhcra0ow by James Vincent, on Flickr
Definitely a show of Alfas of all ages, with the overiding theme seeming to be that each one had been buffed and coiffured for the day:
IMAG3857_zpsavtlj9si by James Vincent, on Flickr
IMAG3859_zpsafmyyj83 by James Vincent, on Flickr
IMAG3856_zpshuyj8sqw by James Vincent, on Flickr
We also tried some archery in the grounds - recommended as a mid-morning wake up, then left before the afternoon rains.
I now have some other leads on various parts for the car. Hopefully some positive news to follow next week.
I think I would be happy with the gatehouse, let along the actual castle:
IMAG3828_zpsqwqjtbwr by James Vincent, on FlickrParking was by colour, so we ended up in the sinister section:
IMAG3855_zpszp2nbp96 by James Vincent, on FlickrAt the moat a 'tricolor' had been organised, with the only other 164 (24V, no less) in a rather fetching shade of green:
IMAG3834_zpskhcra0ow by James Vincent, on FlickrDefinitely a show of Alfas of all ages, with the overiding theme seeming to be that each one had been buffed and coiffured for the day:
IMAG3857_zpsavtlj9si by James Vincent, on FlickrIMAG3859_zpsafmyyj83 by James Vincent, on FlickrIMAG3856_zpshuyj8sqw by James Vincent, on FlickrWe also tried some archery in the grounds - recommended as a mid-morning wake up, then left before the afternoon rains.
I now have some other leads on various parts for the car. Hopefully some positive news to follow next week.
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:50
Re. Your erratic idle:
It looks like your Alfa has a 'barn door' style air flow meter (afm). This works by the airflow moving a swinging door as the throttle is opened which then governs the flow of fuel to give something similar to the correct air fuel mixture.
This is very similar to the AFM on the Peugeot 205 GTI, one of my old cars and a car also plagued by erratic idle issues!
During cold start the ECU is probably using a preset rich mixture to aid starting, and once the engine is warm it switches over to the AFM to control fuelling. This is clearly where your issues start (and also those of the 205)
The AFM sensor works by dragging some contacts over a resistive material, hence the calibrated resistance allows the ECU to work out how far open the 'barn door' is, and hence the airflow.
However these tracks can wear, especially where the sensor spends most of it's time - more than likely during the warm idle phase of engine operation. This leads to funny readings, meaning that the idle can be erratic. However, there is a fix, detailed here:
http://pscuk.net/threads/75084-AFM-Re-Track-Method...
May be worth acquiring an alternative part to ensure you don't wreck your existing part!
Also may be of no use whatsoever!
It looks like your Alfa has a 'barn door' style air flow meter (afm). This works by the airflow moving a swinging door as the throttle is opened which then governs the flow of fuel to give something similar to the correct air fuel mixture.
This is very similar to the AFM on the Peugeot 205 GTI, one of my old cars and a car also plagued by erratic idle issues!
During cold start the ECU is probably using a preset rich mixture to aid starting, and once the engine is warm it switches over to the AFM to control fuelling. This is clearly where your issues start (and also those of the 205)
The AFM sensor works by dragging some contacts over a resistive material, hence the calibrated resistance allows the ECU to work out how far open the 'barn door' is, and hence the airflow.
However these tracks can wear, especially where the sensor spends most of it's time - more than likely during the warm idle phase of engine operation. This leads to funny readings, meaning that the idle can be erratic. However, there is a fix, detailed here:
http://pscuk.net/threads/75084-AFM-Re-Track-Method...
May be worth acquiring an alternative part to ensure you don't wreck your existing part!
Also may be of no use whatsoever!
AlanV6 said:
Wow, loving this topic!
From who did you buy that manifold in Slovenia? I have some alfisti friends here and few of them are 164 owners, do you maybe have FB and i can connect you with some of them for parts?
Thanks! It was from a seller named 'kuzminbruno', who packed, posted and described it all to a good standard, it's just a shame it's for the phase 1 164s. From who did you buy that manifold in Slovenia? I have some alfisti friends here and few of them are 164 owners, do you maybe have FB and i can connect you with some of them for parts?
Happy to pass on at cost to someone who can make use of it.
shalmaneser said:
Re. Your erratic idle:
Much appreciated - all thoughts are welcome on this point - when I finally sort it I'll hold a barbecue for all those that helped out!In the early days of investigation I unplugged the AFM and ran it, to no noticeable improvement so I had discounted it as the fault. However this fix likely needs to be completed in any case. I have recently acquired some dental tools that should allow me to prise off the flimsy black rectangular without swearing.
The car is currently parked on the new driveway glaring at me each night. I just need this rubber sleeves (60593553 is scored in my memory) to commence the rebuild. Oh, and the correct alternator, if anyone knows where to get a rebuilt/brand new one!
With winter drawing in and the garage being used for non-vehicle storage, I took the only logical course of action for the 164 in autumn: purchase a new interior.
The car came with a smart black interior in great condition, but it never felt quite right - seatbelts occasionally snagged, the sides rubbed against the transmission tunnel at extremes and it sat too high, with my hair brushing the ceiling. This was particularly irksome for my girlfriend, who loves driving the car but couldn't comfortably reach the pedals.
I was looking to make modifications and treat the leather to ensure it aged gracefully, but when a 164 interior in great condition came up I contacted the fellow owner and a deal was struck.
Here was the previous interior, note the manual controls:
IMAG4107_zps0szpbijz by James Vincent, on Flickr
One small issue was the location - Yorkshire is quite a stretch and as the Alfa hadn't turned a wheel in three weeks I was worried it might not make it without an issue. The first frost of the year and the car being caked in sand from a neighbour's inconsiderate (and non-notified) sandblasting added to my trepidation.
IMAG4106_zps9knsing1 by James Vincent, on Flickr
Seaside effect in central London. Thanks next door, much appreciated!
IMAG4108_zps81afwhin by James Vincent, on Flickr
I gritted my teeth, cleaned the glass and wipers to prevent scratches and turned the key at 9am. Clearly the 164 wanted to get going, and we were in Yorkshire 3.5 hours later. Fantastic variety of scenery:
IMAG4115_zpsiy3m6nck by James Vincent, on Flickr
IMAG4117_zpssmtp5hmc by James Vincent, on Flickr
The seller was a great chap and true Alfa fanatic, with two 164s. Luckily, he had agreed to help me fit the seats on the driveway. Perforated leather, fully electric, with lumbar support and the all-important Alfa logo on the seat backs:
IMAG4120_zpsw7zu56vq by James Vincent, on Flickr
There are even heated seat controls - a challenge for a another day.
IMAG4121_zpsxclbcllm by James Vincent, on Flickr
The seller identified my existing set as a 166 set, hence a similar design and the matching bolt patterns. Mystery solved, but my previous 'disposable' notion had just flipped to 'irreplaceable Alfa part awaiting another fanatic'.
Four 6mm allen bolts for the front seats, though one required some persuasion:
IMAG4125_zpsblzp7ir3 by James Vincent, on Flickr
The rears were similarly easy - two 10mm bolts, three screws and two pairs of hands made it easy work. The seller had also done this many times, so this was but a few minutes:
IMAG4126_zps0yhf1sx8 by James Vincent, on Flickr
Twenty years of junk underneath the seats. Hopefully the weight saving here will offset the motors in the new seats.
IMAG4127_zpsokefsgsy by James Vincent, on Flickr
You can see at the bottom of this picture the existing connectors for the electric motors. Unfortunately, no plugs for the heater elements could be found so we'll have to pick that up later.
IMAG4128_zps7fwc0dpi by James Vincent, on Flickr
Getting the seats in, we found the passenger recline button was only working one way, but fortunately disassembling the controls and removing some sand (coincidentally in the new set) freed up the contacts and we soon had full functionality.
IMAG4129_zpsxs6svspu by James Vincent, on Flickr
IMAG4130_zpsgllokjrg by James Vincent, on Flickr
Bolts in, perfect fit. With the light fading, a decision had to be made about the 166 set. It transpires you can actually fit two sets in a single 164 (apologies for blurry photo):
IMAG4134_zpsjkje9iw1 by James Vincent, on Flickr
Lumbar support and the electric adjustments finally got the comfort level correct for the 4 hour return trip.
Almost 400 miles in one day, and the 164 didn't miss a beat. Surely some further rewards are in order for such reliability!
IMAG4137_zps7fbo9tb0 by James Vincent, on Flickr
Hopefully I can find a good home for the old set in short order, as space is at premium.
The car came with a smart black interior in great condition, but it never felt quite right - seatbelts occasionally snagged, the sides rubbed against the transmission tunnel at extremes and it sat too high, with my hair brushing the ceiling. This was particularly irksome for my girlfriend, who loves driving the car but couldn't comfortably reach the pedals.
I was looking to make modifications and treat the leather to ensure it aged gracefully, but when a 164 interior in great condition came up I contacted the fellow owner and a deal was struck.
Here was the previous interior, note the manual controls:
IMAG4107_zps0szpbijz by James Vincent, on FlickrOne small issue was the location - Yorkshire is quite a stretch and as the Alfa hadn't turned a wheel in three weeks I was worried it might not make it without an issue. The first frost of the year and the car being caked in sand from a neighbour's inconsiderate (and non-notified) sandblasting added to my trepidation.
IMAG4106_zps9knsing1 by James Vincent, on FlickrSeaside effect in central London. Thanks next door, much appreciated!
IMAG4108_zps81afwhin by James Vincent, on FlickrI gritted my teeth, cleaned the glass and wipers to prevent scratches and turned the key at 9am. Clearly the 164 wanted to get going, and we were in Yorkshire 3.5 hours later. Fantastic variety of scenery:
IMAG4115_zpsiy3m6nck by James Vincent, on FlickrIMAG4117_zpssmtp5hmc by James Vincent, on FlickrThe seller was a great chap and true Alfa fanatic, with two 164s. Luckily, he had agreed to help me fit the seats on the driveway. Perforated leather, fully electric, with lumbar support and the all-important Alfa logo on the seat backs:
IMAG4120_zpsw7zu56vq by James Vincent, on FlickrThere are even heated seat controls - a challenge for a another day.
IMAG4121_zpsxclbcllm by James Vincent, on FlickrThe seller identified my existing set as a 166 set, hence a similar design and the matching bolt patterns. Mystery solved, but my previous 'disposable' notion had just flipped to 'irreplaceable Alfa part awaiting another fanatic'.
Four 6mm allen bolts for the front seats, though one required some persuasion:
IMAG4125_zpsblzp7ir3 by James Vincent, on FlickrThe rears were similarly easy - two 10mm bolts, three screws and two pairs of hands made it easy work. The seller had also done this many times, so this was but a few minutes:
IMAG4126_zps0yhf1sx8 by James Vincent, on FlickrTwenty years of junk underneath the seats. Hopefully the weight saving here will offset the motors in the new seats.
IMAG4127_zpsokefsgsy by James Vincent, on FlickrYou can see at the bottom of this picture the existing connectors for the electric motors. Unfortunately, no plugs for the heater elements could be found so we'll have to pick that up later.
IMAG4128_zps7fwc0dpi by James Vincent, on FlickrGetting the seats in, we found the passenger recline button was only working one way, but fortunately disassembling the controls and removing some sand (coincidentally in the new set) freed up the contacts and we soon had full functionality.
IMAG4129_zpsxs6svspu by James Vincent, on FlickrIMAG4130_zpsgllokjrg by James Vincent, on FlickrBolts in, perfect fit. With the light fading, a decision had to be made about the 166 set. It transpires you can actually fit two sets in a single 164 (apologies for blurry photo):
IMAG4134_zpsjkje9iw1 by James Vincent, on FlickrLumbar support and the electric adjustments finally got the comfort level correct for the 4 hour return trip.
Almost 400 miles in one day, and the 164 didn't miss a beat. Surely some further rewards are in order for such reliability!
IMAG4137_zps7fbo9tb0 by James Vincent, on FlickrHopefully I can find a good home for the old set in short order, as space is at premium.
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 6th November 22:25
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:56
)As the first owners were an Alfa dealer and then the dealer's son, I suspect it was swapped for a 166 set early on - certainly the main owner, who had it for 12 years, had no idea they were incorrect.
Had the day off today for DIY so took the 164 out and about in the daylight - here's some proper photos of the new set, with just enough patina to ensure they fit the car.
Right, best get back to the plans for proper rust proofing and mechanical work. Idle is still irregular, for those that are following it; the seats unfortunately had no effect.
Had the day off today for DIY so took the 164 out and about in the daylight - here's some proper photos of the new set, with just enough patina to ensure they fit the car.
Right, best get back to the plans for proper rust proofing and mechanical work. Idle is still irregular, for those that are following it; the seats unfortunately had no effect.
Minor update today - I found some spare fuses for the (handily illuminated) fusebox, and checked all the others for good measure:
IMAG4247_zpsj3sbiz4d by James Vincent, on Flickr
I then cleaned a number of contacts and wiggled a few connectors, rewarded by an amber beacon of joy:
IMAG4248_zps31danmfu by James Vincent, on Flickr
Working heated seats! They're not cycling perfectly, but a revelation for the posterior nonetheless.
Also experienced a 'high idle' for 5 minutes, which might be a further symptom of the erratic idle culprit - the throttle position sensor, as the idle control valve is working correctly.
IMAG4247_zpsj3sbiz4d by James Vincent, on FlickrI then cleaned a number of contacts and wiggled a few connectors, rewarded by an amber beacon of joy:
IMAG4248_zps31danmfu by James Vincent, on FlickrWorking heated seats! They're not cycling perfectly, but a revelation for the posterior nonetheless.
Also experienced a 'high idle' for 5 minutes, which might be a further symptom of the erratic idle culprit - the throttle position sensor, as the idle control valve is working correctly.
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 16th July 15:57
Spinakerr said:
I then cleaned a number of contacts and wiggled a few connectors, rewarded by an amber beacon of joy:
Working heated seats! They're not cycling perfectly, but a revelation for the posterior nonetheless.
Delighted for you, must be so satisfying. Rewards like that make it all worthwhile.Working heated seats! They're not cycling perfectly, but a revelation for the posterior nonetheless.
GrantB5 said:
If you do need anything give me a message and I can have a word with one of the guys if its of any use.
Thanks! Currently trying to track down cam cover gaskets and the correct Bosch alternator.164s in Madiera? Sounds like an excuse to visit a warmer climate! I'm glad they survived the 2010 floods.
This is the first car I've had with heated seats that actually work, so it's definitely my preferred winter transport. All this city driving it showing on the elderly clutch though, so that's the next item to be changed. It never ends...
For your alternator, there is a shop on hanger Lane roundabout. I think they are called sahib...in any case, they took my old alternator off my alfa 75, rebuilt it with a more powerful core and put it back in for £90 + VAT + 1 hour labour, which I think was pretty good...mind you, the 8V ts I have in my 75 is in the correct orientation so the pas pump and alternator are a 10 minute job to replace rather than a full day, subframe out job like my 145
Spinakerr said:
Thanks! Currently trying to track down cam cover gaskets and the correct Bosch alternator.
164s in Madiera? Sounds like an excuse to visit a warmer climate! I'm glad they survived the 2010 floods.
This is the first car I've had with heated seats that actually work, so it's definitely my preferred winter transport. All this city driving it showing on the elderly clutch though, so that's the next item to be changed. It never ends...
Inbox me what you are after as I am off for a few days and may end up losing track or forgetting.164s in Madiera? Sounds like an excuse to visit a warmer climate! I'm glad they survived the 2010 floods.
This is the first car I've had with heated seats that actually work, so it's definitely my preferred winter transport. All this city driving it showing on the elderly clutch though, so that's the next item to be changed. It never ends...
I will pass it on for you and see what I can do.
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