Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen
Discussion
Thanks for the race report Mark.
I 'watched' a little of the race via TSL and noticed Rich getting quicker also noticed that you had 5 pit stops and all others had 3 or 4 so all in all I'd say 6th is a good result.
WRT understeer - softer front spring are the best option, It's a bit off of the club to change the spring they supply and not offer a refund/replacement on the ones you bought.
I 'watched' a little of the race via TSL and noticed Rich getting quicker also noticed that you had 5 pit stops and all others had 3 or 4 so all in all I'd say 6th is a good result.
WRT understeer - softer front spring are the best option, It's a bit off of the club to change the spring they supply and not offer a refund/replacement on the ones you bought.
skeggysteve said:
Thanks for the race report Mark.
I 'watched' a little of the race via TSL and noticed Rich getting quicker also noticed that you had 5 pit stops and all others had 3 or 4 so all in all I'd say 6th is a good result.
WRT understeer - softer front spring are the best option, It's a bit off of the club to change the spring they supply and not offer a refund/replacement on the ones you bought.
Ah, we'll work it out Steve. It's clear the car is quick in the fast corners (Coram was great) so hard springs work for us as well as against.I 'watched' a little of the race via TSL and noticed Rich getting quicker also noticed that you had 5 pit stops and all others had 3 or 4 so all in all I'd say 6th is a good result.
WRT understeer - softer front spring are the best option, It's a bit off of the club to change the spring they supply and not offer a refund/replacement on the ones you bought.
We'll take some toe off and play with rear camber (we can use shims) and see what we end up with. I don't want to spend any more on suspension so a track day and a bit of playing will see us right I'm sure.
Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 11th May 08:23
Mark Benson said:
Mention too to Duncan and his friend who sought us out having read this thread - do it chaps, you won't find a more rewarding way into racing in terms of cost or satisfaction.
It was great to be able to get a look of the car close up, it's clear a lot of time and thought has gone into it, easily one of my favourite on the grid! James and I are now on the look out for a C1, so it was an expensive visit to Snetterton! Glad to hear the race went well!Munter said:
I thought you could run the standard road springs or optionally the ones from the club. I'm assuming the standards are softer.
As we understand it, you have to run the springs and dampers as a package - ie. if you go with Gaz, you need to run the corresponding springs.Regs said:
12.1.4 If Gaz dampers are being used, they must be fitted with coil-over springs supplied by the C1 Series Organisers
So if we want softer springs, we need to bin the £600 worth of kit we bought in October.Mark Benson said:
Munter said:
I thought you could run the standard road springs or optionally the ones from the club. I'm assuming the standards are softer.
As we understand it, you have to run the springs and dampers as a package - ie. if you go with Gaz, you need to run the corresponding springs.Regs said:
12.1.4 If Gaz dampers are being used, they must be fitted with coil-over springs supplied by the C1 Series Organisers
So if we want softer springs, we need to bin the £600 worth of kit we bought in October.Just to echo Mark's comments, we had a fantastic weekend, albeit with the understeer.
The car flew through scrutineering with no issues whatsoever.
After qualifying we were both a little disappointed, we had expected to be far further up the field than we were. Half way through the qualifying session we were sat nicely mid pack, but the last 20 minutes just saw us tumble to the bottom. One thing that was noticeable though was the the teams with four drivers really struggled to get their mandatory three laps each in. At about nine minutes per driver, there was no time for people to make changes if they needed to in a forty minute session. With two drivers we simply split the session into two twenty minute sessions and stayed out.
The race itself was just fantastic, even with the understeer. The racing was very close and I had several battles in both my stints. In the last stint everything just 'clicked' and I just seemed to get quicker and quicker. A lesson I learnt at Spa last year was to glance at the clock in the car as you start your stint, so that you have an idea of the time elapsed. With ten minutes to go I was sure I wasn't going to catch the car ahead of me. After going slightly wide at Palmer and getting a driving standards flag (I knew I was far too wide and had surely triggered a sensor), I reigned it in and brought the car home safe and sound.
We did have two unnecessary pit stops. One to undo a geo change, and then a safety car pit stop mix up, they probably cost us 60 seconds or so all told.
We'll do some work on the alignment and go testing at Donington a couple of times before the next round at Pembrey to ensure we've got the handling where we want it to be.
The car flew through scrutineering with no issues whatsoever.
After qualifying we were both a little disappointed, we had expected to be far further up the field than we were. Half way through the qualifying session we were sat nicely mid pack, but the last 20 minutes just saw us tumble to the bottom. One thing that was noticeable though was the the teams with four drivers really struggled to get their mandatory three laps each in. At about nine minutes per driver, there was no time for people to make changes if they needed to in a forty minute session. With two drivers we simply split the session into two twenty minute sessions and stayed out.
The race itself was just fantastic, even with the understeer. The racing was very close and I had several battles in both my stints. In the last stint everything just 'clicked' and I just seemed to get quicker and quicker. A lesson I learnt at Spa last year was to glance at the clock in the car as you start your stint, so that you have an idea of the time elapsed. With ten minutes to go I was sure I wasn't going to catch the car ahead of me. After going slightly wide at Palmer and getting a driving standards flag (I knew I was far too wide and had surely triggered a sensor), I reigned it in and brought the car home safe and sound.
We did have two unnecessary pit stops. One to undo a geo change, and then a safety car pit stop mix up, they probably cost us 60 seconds or so all told.
We'll do some work on the alignment and go testing at Donington a couple of times before the next round at Pembrey to ensure we've got the handling where we want it to be.
We took the car to PT Sportscars who did a full geometry setup and then on to Cadwell for testing (and to let Rich have a bit of a test as he's never been). I love Cadwell and the car went very well round there - catching up with a 911 in Charlies that flew past me on the bottom straight was a particular highlight - we may not have power but when you simply don't brake from Barn to Park you can make up a lot of distance on more powerful machinery.
On the whole the car is a lot better than it was a Snett after the trip to PT, but I feel that the springs are still not ideal - they're a bit short at the back (there's a danger that if we go off a particularly high kerb they could drop off the mountings - they have zip-ties holding them on now but....) and the front springs are still a little stiff, but the setup is a lot better and we've lost most of the understeer.
Rich has emailed the club asking of we can change the springs out for something more suitable but keep the (very expensive) dampers that the club recommended then told us we couldn't use after the end of this season which seems a bit rum to me.
Rich is racing at Pembrey later this month, unfortunately I'm on holiday and will miss that weekend then it's Cadwell in September, Spa in October and Race of Remembrance in November. Think we might have a seat at Pembrey (though Rich might have filled it).
On the whole the car is a lot better than it was a Snett after the trip to PT, but I feel that the springs are still not ideal - they're a bit short at the back (there's a danger that if we go off a particularly high kerb they could drop off the mountings - they have zip-ties holding them on now but....) and the front springs are still a little stiff, but the setup is a lot better and we've lost most of the understeer.
Rich has emailed the club asking of we can change the springs out for something more suitable but keep the (very expensive) dampers that the club recommended then told us we couldn't use after the end of this season which seems a bit rum to me.
Rich is racing at Pembrey later this month, unfortunately I'm on holiday and will miss that weekend then it's Cadwell in September, Spa in October and Race of Remembrance in November. Think we might have a seat at Pembrey (though Rich might have filled it).
We bought the Bilstein kit as soon as we were given the nod. Could you not get a set of neutral helper springs for the rear to stop that shifting? Gaz do sell them if you are allowed to use them! (appreciate you aren't at present owing to the regs, but given as they are not yet a championship and thus don't need approval from the MSA to make reg changes it couldnt hurt!)
geeks said:
We bought the Bilstein kit as soon as we were given the nod. Could you not get a set of neutral helper springs for the rear to stop that shifting? Gaz do sell them if you are allowed to use them! (appreciate you aren't at present owing to the regs, but given as they are not yet a championship and thus don't need approval from the MSA to make reg changes it couldnt hurt!)
Ideally we'd just put the Bilstein springs over the Gaz dampers and be done. Neither of us is keen to go full Bilstein as we spent a large proportion of the budget on the Gaz stuff, only to be told they were only of use for a year however we'd go with OEM if we had to - at present though to change the springs we'd have to ditch the dampers which doesn't seem fair.I don't know what the current state of affairs is as Rich has the car at the moment and will be doing Pembrey so he's been speaking to Caryl & co. - it may have been resolved by now.
Mark Benson said:
geeks said:
We bought the Bilstein kit as soon as we were given the nod. Could you not get a set of neutral helper springs for the rear to stop that shifting? Gaz do sell them if you are allowed to use them! (appreciate you aren't at present owing to the regs, but given as they are not yet a championship and thus don't need approval from the MSA to make reg changes it couldnt hurt!)
Ideally we'd just put the Bilstein springs over the Gaz dampers and be done. Neither of us is keen to go full Bilstein as we spent a large proportion of the budget on the Gaz stuff, only to be told they were only of use for a year however we'd go with OEM if we had to - at present though to change the springs we'd have to ditch the dampers which doesn't seem fair.I don't know what the current state of affairs is as Rich has the car at the moment and will be doing Pembrey so he's been speaking to Caryl & co. - it may have been resolved by now.
geeks said:
Mark Benson said:
geeks said:
We bought the Bilstein kit as soon as we were given the nod. Could you not get a set of neutral helper springs for the rear to stop that shifting? Gaz do sell them if you are allowed to use them! (appreciate you aren't at present owing to the regs, but given as they are not yet a championship and thus don't need approval from the MSA to make reg changes it couldnt hurt!)
Ideally we'd just put the Bilstein springs over the Gaz dampers and be done. Neither of us is keen to go full Bilstein as we spent a large proportion of the budget on the Gaz stuff, only to be told they were only of use for a year however we'd go with OEM if we had to - at present though to change the springs we'd have to ditch the dampers which doesn't seem fair.I don't know what the current state of affairs is as Rich has the car at the moment and will be doing Pembrey so he's been speaking to Caryl & co. - it may have been resolved by now.
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