Mercedes w210 E430 (no titivating allowed)
Discussion
r129sl said:
Hahaha, I made an arse of getting out of that parking space! Thank you. The driving round there can be thoughtless.
Edit: I have sussed out the fans. Either there is too much gas in there or the pressure sensor is bust. The fans switch on at 14bar. The pressure is never less than 14bar. Makes sense? I think I'll just let a bit out (screwdriver pressed onto valve) and see what happens.
To be the cockwomble, I'll advise you that it is illegal to release R134a or R12 (refrigerant gas) to atmosphere and IIRC it's quite a big fine IF you get caught doing it. That's not to say I haven't seen it done before...Edit: I have sussed out the fans. Either there is too much gas in there or the pressure sensor is bust. The fans switch on at 14bar. The pressure is never less than 14bar. Makes sense? I think I'll just let a bit out (screwdriver pressed onto valve) and see what happens.
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 7th June 23:00
RiccardoG said:
r129sl said:
Running my r129 (which has 266,000+ miles on it) and my s124 (now up past 357,000) is quite expensive and neither of them is the last word in refinement.
I'm interested in your views on refinement of the W210 vs the W124. Granted its been nearly 10 years since I last drove a W124 (our old 200TE), but from memory at the time I didn't notice that much difference between a W124 and slightly newer cars, in this case my E39 (same period as the W210), in terms of refinement.
Edited by RiccardoG on Wednesday 7th June 20:07
RiccardoG said:
RiccardoG said:
r129sl said:
Running my r129 (which has 266,000+ miles on it) and my s124 (now up past 357,000) is quite expensive and neither of them is the last word in refinement.
I'm interested in your views on refinement of the W210 vs the W124. Granted its been nearly 10 years since I last drove a W124 (our old 200TE), but from memory at the time I didn't notice that much difference between a W124 and slightly newer cars, in this case my E39 (same period as the W210), in terms of refinement.
Noise apart, I am not convinced the V8/5spd auto driveline is any smoother than the I6/4spd auto in the 124. But a petrol V8 is always going to be nicer than a diesel, even an I6 diesel.
The w210's ride is not as good as the 124's. It is stiffer and roll-rock is greater in the 210 than in the 124. And yet, curiously, the 124 handles a bit better. I think this may be down to the size of the 124 and directness of the 124's driving controls.
Where the 210 really falls down is in simplicity and ease of operation. Its controls are not as transparent or mechanically simple as the 124's. It is also bigger, with less visible extremities. Finally, there is a whole extra level of gadgets which are actually a distraction. Maybe that will wear off in time. However, sometimes you don't want choice: rather you a single solution that is perfect. I think of a restaurant I go to. There is no menu. You get what you are given and it is spot on. It is far more "luxurious" than the tyranny of choice. Thus with the 124. No steering wheel buttons. No fancy climate control. No COMAND. It just works as it is.
Finally, finally, quality to me is a component of refinement and you can tell the 210 has had quality taken out of it. I'm not sure how and I cannot be specific but it is definitely perceptible.
Edited by r129sl on Friday 9th June 18:53
Air con. I had Terry evacuate and re-gas it today. This was the right thing to do. He told me that the system was low on refrigerant but had far too much gas in it. I knew there was oil in there but I thought the gas was the refrigerant. So you learn something everyday. It now works beautifully. The fans do not come on. They system cools very rapidly (much quicker than the 124's). A good result. £40.
r129sl said:
The w210 is quieter by far; road or tyre noise is much better suppressed (I note there is barrier material in the wheel arches and much thicker sound deadening everywhere) but also body and suspension noises are far less than in the 124. The body shell is notably stiffer (but I'm comparing a 210 saloon with a 124 estate).
Noise apart, I am not convinced the V8/5spd auto driveline is any smoother than the I6/4spd auto in the 124. But a petrol V8 is always going to be nicer than a diesel, even an I6 diesel.
The w210's ride is not as good as the 124's. It is stiffer and roll-rock is greater in the 210 than in the 124. And yet, curiously, the 124 handles a bit better. I think this may be down to the size of the 124 and directness of the 124's driving controls.
Where the 210 really falls down is in simplicity and ease of operation. Its controls are not as transparent or mechanically simple as the 124's. It is also bigger, with less visible extremities. Finally, there is a whole extra level of gadgets which are actually a distraction. Maybe that will wear off in time. However, sometimes you don't want choice: rather you a single solution that is perfect. I think of a restaurant I go to. There is no menu. You get what you are given and it is spot on. It is far more "luxurious" than the tyranny of choice. Thus with the 124. No steering wheel buttons. No fancy climate control. No COMAND. It just works as it is.
Finally, finally, quality to me is a component of refinement and you can tell the 210 has had quality taken out of it. I'm not sure how and I cannot be specific but it is definitely perceptible.
Thanks for the insights. This is something that always interests me, whether cars are actually improving in refinement through their generations or not. Obviously something like a Golf or Mini has improved, but I feel that on the larger German saloons there hasn't been much change since the 2000's, or at least not enough alone to warrant "wanting" a newer car on this aspect alone. Noise apart, I am not convinced the V8/5spd auto driveline is any smoother than the I6/4spd auto in the 124. But a petrol V8 is always going to be nicer than a diesel, even an I6 diesel.
The w210's ride is not as good as the 124's. It is stiffer and roll-rock is greater in the 210 than in the 124. And yet, curiously, the 124 handles a bit better. I think this may be down to the size of the 124 and directness of the 124's driving controls.
Where the 210 really falls down is in simplicity and ease of operation. Its controls are not as transparent or mechanically simple as the 124's. It is also bigger, with less visible extremities. Finally, there is a whole extra level of gadgets which are actually a distraction. Maybe that will wear off in time. However, sometimes you don't want choice: rather you a single solution that is perfect. I think of a restaurant I go to. There is no menu. You get what you are given and it is spot on. It is far more "luxurious" than the tyranny of choice. Thus with the 124. No steering wheel buttons. No fancy climate control. No COMAND. It just works as it is.
Finally, finally, quality to me is a component of refinement and you can tell the 210 has had quality taken out of it. I'm not sure how and I cannot be specific but it is definitely perceptible.
Edited by r129sl on Friday 9th June 18:53
Weren't you tempted to use a turkey baster to replace as much PAS fluid as you could ?
r129sl said:
Finally, the steering is a bit squeaky. This is probably just the rubber boot at the foot of the steering column being a bit dry. However, just in case, and in order to spend £7, I ordered some Lubrizol additive from the main dealer. Into the reservoir, run the engine, jerk the steering around at each lock.
RiccardoG said:
Thanks for the insights. This is something that always interests me, whether cars are actually improving in refinement through their generations or not. Obviously something like a Golf or Mini has improved, but I feel that on the larger German saloons there hasn't been much change since the 2000's, or at least not enough alone to warrant "wanting" a newer car on this aspect alone.
Elimination or insulation of noise and vibration together with body shell rigidity have advanced by leaps and bounds over the last two or three decades. Those changes are good for refinement. There is no doubt in my mind that the m113 V8 in my E430 is vastly smoother than the m117 V8 that was in my old SEC, for example; likewise the current V6 turbo diesels are much smoother than the OM606 in my 124. But against that have to be set massive increases in size, weight and complexity, together with a cheapening of construction (especially trim) and (I suspect) a shortening of design life. Obviously those things are all bad for refinement.
On the PS fluid, I just fancied tipping the little bottle in. It was a new discovery for me. Sooner or later I'll service the PS system, it's fairly easy (or it was on the other cars I own).
r129sl said:
Air con. I had Terry evacuate and re-gas it today. This was the right thing to do. He told me that the system was low on refrigerant but had far too much gas in it. I knew there was oil in there but I thought the gas was the refrigerant. So you learn something everyday. It now works beautifully. The fans do not come on. They system cools very rapidly (much quicker than the 124's). A good result. £40.
I think there is some confusion of terminology with Terry. You are correct that the gas acts as the refrigerant and the oil is added purely as a lubricant. Sounds like the system was overpressured as you suspected. You add oil at a certain ratio to gas.I had a nice run down to a client in Teesside yesterday. After commuting into Newcastle in heavy-ish traffic, then driving down to Yarm and back at a steady 80 to 85mph, this was the result. I'm quite pleased with this.
Then on the way back from a big dinner last night at midnight I found myself on a private test track. It will run "off the clock", not so much slamming into the speed limiter as gently butting up against it. It is very quiet and stable at very high speed, although nothing I have ever driven has had the high speed stability of my 500 SEC.
Then on the way back from a big dinner last night at midnight I found myself on a private test track. It will run "off the clock", not so much slamming into the speed limiter as gently butting up against it. It is very quiet and stable at very high speed, although nothing I have ever driven has had the high speed stability of my 500 SEC.
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