Honda Civic FN2 2007
Discussion
Continuing on from yesterday.
Around the same time as my brakes turned into a baked potato, Rick's Clio was falling on its face at 6000rpm and occasionally under that. So dinner was spent dodging wasps of death - genuinely never seen so many, it was like a freaking horror movie! - who wanted our food and trying to diagnose a dying car under situations we couldn't simulate off track.
First idea was to get the plugs out and check them, which on a Clio sport involves removing half the intake manifold
I had soon put a stop to that when I noticed the main battery ground was hanging on with but a few strands of copper. Simple things first we went for that. Rick chopped the rest off it off, stripped back the cable and stuffed it inside the battery clamp for an amazing trackside repair.
The long and short of it was, after going on and off track for an hour or so, we decided while it was running under its own power to drive it back onto the trailer. Lacking a winch right now, you have to drive onto it. Shame but he had managed 22 fast laps, and so was pleased as being unroadworthy, this was the 'first' drive of it ever. So a success in our eyes.
Only after getting it apart a few days later did he find three of the plugs missing the electrode completely. A wonder it ran at all, though explains it's reluctance to start, when the immobiliser worked properly. I suspect to do with the fact the keys battery is dead flat.
Plugs alone didn't fix the car. As suspected needed a new coil pack and plug leads. Running sweet again.
So of the three vehicles two have broken themselves in some way. Only later when the Land Rover was having its rear shocks replaced was it noticed a bolt in the tow bar assembly had sheered a head off!
I noticed that I've not commented about the cars good points. The engine was sweet and faultless all day. Used half a litre of oil in the morning, yet used none all afternoon. A quirk of the K series. The tyres were brilliant, not grip machines but progressive and forgiving. The general balance of the car was as neutral as you could get for a front drive setup. Naturally there is understeer, though can easily be tamed for the rear to move around if needed. Interestingly the rear never stepped out, only communicated with your bum giving nice confidence. That's my opinion, I'm sure when I get around to having a proper setup there will be more to get out of it.
So lastly the Honda had ruined its discs, pads and calipers. Might be down to the driver, not sure yet
This being on a Sunday I was due to be working away all the next week. So the car sat until Friday.
First idea was to replace all the brakes and the two front calipers. A Honda quote of £280 a caliper. Once I'd gotten over a mild stroke, immediately priced up big brake kits. At this point my wallet was wimpering.
Next idea, get some rebuild kits. These only £35 per pair! Honda ones don't come with replacement pistons, so bought pattern parts that did. A bonus being some garage tinkering time and learning to do something new. Helpfully also had a week off work too!
Sandblasting the previous owners effort at red brakes. In fairness what paint was there well protected the casting underneath. I wasn't bothered about going red again it just seems right to as they always have been. Blasted with all old seals and pistons in place, they were going straight in the bin anyway.
This explains why this caliper was always sticking. New vs Old
Old piston slid back in for spraying and ear plugs in the caliper slider holes. Masked off other relevant areas too.
You'll notice that the rear calipers are not painted too, nor even dismantled. As it turns out, rear calipers with handbrake mechanisms are a pain in the arse. There is a small internal circlip holding a mechanism, deep inside the bore. Now I had many tools long enough to reach but non slimline enough to miss the mechanism in the middle. This really held things up while the right tool arrived. Being a bank holiday, it took much longer than wanted.
So everything that could be painted was painted.
Decided to do as the previous owner tried and black the lettering. In which they only managed to do one side
The assembly of the front calipers was hugely satisfying. One tip for anyone else is that there is no such thing as too much lube. If in doubt, lubricate! The easiest way I found to put the fronts back together, was to lubricate everything and insert the inner seal into the cylinder first. The tricky part is to get the outer seal to seat inside the cylinder, seat on the piston and get the piston in. My tip is to hang the seal off the back of the piston so the part that seats in the cylinder is off the back and loose. The piston end of the seal should be on the piston. Gently bring the piston to the cylinder and try to ease the seal into the seat as best you can. If done well enough you can ease the piston into the cylinder, which should seat the seal the rest of the way. If it doesn't push smoothly and evenly all the way in, there is something wrong.
No pictures of the action, the hydraulic grease gets all over.
Here's one on the car with the old discs, as even yet I've not got any new ones yet (I'll explain later)
Oh what's that? A braided line I see?
Yes, Maxing out the standard setup. Should be just fine for an annual track day.
One with the wheel thrown on
The car is done right now. i just need to write it up. The biggest pain in the arse is next to come...
Around the same time as my brakes turned into a baked potato, Rick's Clio was falling on its face at 6000rpm and occasionally under that. So dinner was spent dodging wasps of death - genuinely never seen so many, it was like a freaking horror movie! - who wanted our food and trying to diagnose a dying car under situations we couldn't simulate off track.
First idea was to get the plugs out and check them, which on a Clio sport involves removing half the intake manifold
I had soon put a stop to that when I noticed the main battery ground was hanging on with but a few strands of copper. Simple things first we went for that. Rick chopped the rest off it off, stripped back the cable and stuffed it inside the battery clamp for an amazing trackside repair.The long and short of it was, after going on and off track for an hour or so, we decided while it was running under its own power to drive it back onto the trailer. Lacking a winch right now, you have to drive onto it. Shame but he had managed 22 fast laps, and so was pleased as being unroadworthy, this was the 'first' drive of it ever. So a success in our eyes.
Only after getting it apart a few days later did he find three of the plugs missing the electrode completely. A wonder it ran at all, though explains it's reluctance to start, when the immobiliser worked properly. I suspect to do with the fact the keys battery is dead flat.
Plugs alone didn't fix the car. As suspected needed a new coil pack and plug leads. Running sweet again.
So of the three vehicles two have broken themselves in some way. Only later when the Land Rover was having its rear shocks replaced was it noticed a bolt in the tow bar assembly had sheered a head off!
I noticed that I've not commented about the cars good points. The engine was sweet and faultless all day. Used half a litre of oil in the morning, yet used none all afternoon. A quirk of the K series. The tyres were brilliant, not grip machines but progressive and forgiving. The general balance of the car was as neutral as you could get for a front drive setup. Naturally there is understeer, though can easily be tamed for the rear to move around if needed. Interestingly the rear never stepped out, only communicated with your bum giving nice confidence. That's my opinion, I'm sure when I get around to having a proper setup there will be more to get out of it.
So lastly the Honda had ruined its discs, pads and calipers. Might be down to the driver, not sure yet
This being on a Sunday I was due to be working away all the next week. So the car sat until Friday.First idea was to replace all the brakes and the two front calipers. A Honda quote of £280 a caliper. Once I'd gotten over a mild stroke, immediately priced up big brake kits. At this point my wallet was wimpering.
Next idea, get some rebuild kits. These only £35 per pair! Honda ones don't come with replacement pistons, so bought pattern parts that did. A bonus being some garage tinkering time and learning to do something new. Helpfully also had a week off work too!
Sandblasting the previous owners effort at red brakes. In fairness what paint was there well protected the casting underneath. I wasn't bothered about going red again it just seems right to as they always have been. Blasted with all old seals and pistons in place, they were going straight in the bin anyway.
This explains why this caliper was always sticking. New vs Old
Old piston slid back in for spraying and ear plugs in the caliper slider holes. Masked off other relevant areas too.
You'll notice that the rear calipers are not painted too, nor even dismantled. As it turns out, rear calipers with handbrake mechanisms are a pain in the arse. There is a small internal circlip holding a mechanism, deep inside the bore. Now I had many tools long enough to reach but non slimline enough to miss the mechanism in the middle. This really held things up while the right tool arrived. Being a bank holiday, it took much longer than wanted.
So everything that could be painted was painted.
Decided to do as the previous owner tried and black the lettering. In which they only managed to do one side
The assembly of the front calipers was hugely satisfying. One tip for anyone else is that there is no such thing as too much lube. If in doubt, lubricate! The easiest way I found to put the fronts back together, was to lubricate everything and insert the inner seal into the cylinder first. The tricky part is to get the outer seal to seat inside the cylinder, seat on the piston and get the piston in. My tip is to hang the seal off the back of the piston so the part that seats in the cylinder is off the back and loose. The piston end of the seal should be on the piston. Gently bring the piston to the cylinder and try to ease the seal into the seat as best you can. If done well enough you can ease the piston into the cylinder, which should seat the seal the rest of the way. If it doesn't push smoothly and evenly all the way in, there is something wrong.
No pictures of the action, the hydraulic grease gets all over.
Here's one on the car with the old discs, as even yet I've not got any new ones yet (I'll explain later)
Oh what's that? A braided line I see?
Yes, Maxing out the standard setup. Should be just fine for an annual track day.
One with the wheel thrown on
The car is done right now. i just need to write it up. The biggest pain in the arse is next to come...
Edited by Sillyhatday on Monday 3rd September 21:42
Edited by Sillyhatday on Tuesday 4th September 07:32
Thanks for continuing interest. I've not been on PH for a while. I'm here for the cars and nothing else TBH. Been having a great time, with great people doing car stuff. Struggle with the grumpy armchair warriors, but there is the few that make it worthwhile. So I'll carry on.
The first Cadwell track day was an exciting plan. The brakes repaired after Blyton park adventures, I was feeling unnerved about their abilities ahead.
The morning was a great start as I was running late, even with enough time to get ready. Was supposed to be meeting Rick at his house for 6am. Got there at 6:15am. Not that it would matter as at this hour, traffic would be extinct. The first 20 minutes of driving was in darkness following Rick. His Clio 172 gently bobbing on its puggyback. I watched the sun rise listening to K series thrum. The skyline simmering with the whole colour spectrum.
We were first to arrive. It was 7:10am. The dew in the air still languishing. Clio Sport under its ice blanket.
I did my track preps while waiting for Andy. At Blyton I’d jettisoned a wheel centre cap, they come off as track prep now. Tyre pressures lowered, tools and equipment out the car into the tow rig. The duo attended to the Clio. We let it defrost itself. It was a pig to start again, not a good beginning.
I checked my oil to keep nervous at bay and fiddled with the camera mounts. The other two were murmuring in the background. We were waiting for Andy to show up. Should have been there by now. Predictable. Time was pressing on and we needed to eat. Andy would have to catch up in his own time.
8:30am safety briefing began. They try to make it as entertaining as they can. A few jeers and giggles from the participants. Shows were are listening to a degree.
Andy wasn't far behind. I owed him a coffee to go with his breakfast. Passengers don’t have to attend the safety brief, but he was there.
Wrist bands, straight out for sighting laps. 3 laps to gauge the track conditions and learn which way it goes. I already knew the track layout. The conditions were a different matter. The apex on entry to Charlies was an ice disaster.
I was second out behind the safety car. Seat Ibiza, a Caterham, then me. Nip through woods, hairpin then barn corner, the Caterham pirouettes into the Armco. Red flag. Annoying to say the least. We all qued back up once more.
Sighting laps done once more without note, I did some final checks before the real hot laps. Oil, tyre pressures, cameras and my bladder.
I knew the track conditions were poor, so I wasn't going to learn anything that I didn't already know from driving the track on various games. So I thought; you don't get the feel for bumps and camber changes in virtual reality. Nothing eventful about my first real bunch of hot laps. The greasy surface and frost in the shade kept everyone in a fairly sensible head.
In the 'pits', Andy has brought a stove and is making us fresh tea. Selfless as usual. I sat on the back of the trailer thinking about the whole situation. I love tea; it was still frosty out. The sun had started to poke through.
I'd been running the same tyres since I bought these wheels for the car. The Bridgestone Potenza RE050A. Good enough tyres, I'd never thought the dry performance to be bad, but the wet abilities are totally none progressive. Particularly as I'd swapped the cracking rears with the new fronts. Logic being that this would get rid of them for fresh rubber. They are an old design now.
I gauged them not lasting all day, maybe not even while dinner.
James was walking back from spectating and Rick was pulling in from his first laps. We shared tips on track conditions. Clio running well this morning. Rick doesn't like tea.
A dry line had already started appearing. Speed was building with experience, confidence and conditions. The new brakes were finally getting some action. They were cooking again. The days laps were going to be easy on the stopping.
The morning went without note. Andy was in and out with me. James and Rick alternating the driving. The Clio not getting much of a break.
It pulls in choking on itself again. I felt bad, but rick took it well. It was nearly dinner time and not to drive the car anymore would be a waste. It was missing in a particular RPM band. So carry on we must.
I went out for one more session before dinner with Andy aboard. The car feeling good and the driving line properly dry by now. Aside from the brakes everything was going well. Towards the end of the session the front tyres went off like a switch. I'd never experienced that before. They were done. I pushed on for more laps anyway. They weren't going to get any better, so make the best of them.
By dinner time the Clio was really running bad. Would not spin past 4000 RPM. My tyres needing swapping to the rear to make it to the end of the day. We went for dinner and decided to let everything cool before doing any work.
The guys next to us were on their first track day. The car was fast on a straight and could have been even quicker in the bends. We offered our tools and supplies to them through the day. It was an early twenties lad with his dad. We suggested the car was too low for track work, but they didn't seem to think so. I was already rubbing under heavy loading (something I learnt how bad it was on the day). By dinner time the two of them had serious rubbing issues. So much so they had pulled in with a fairly major knocking sound from the front of the car. A simple diagnosis, the offside front wheel was falling off. I offered our torque wrench and anything they may need. They said they were alright.
At dinner time we made small talk. Polite stuff, wondering if they wanted to join us over dinner. We all politely suggested, while you eat and the car is cooling, you could raise the ride height up some. Deaf ears.
Early afternoon they limped it back in with a broken bottom wishbone.
Shame, they were quite good out there. Great track etiquette and friendly folk.
Now whether it was caused by low ride height, probably not. I can't help think if the tyres weren't 'tucking', then it wouldn't have happened.
After a really nice but over priced dinner, the trouble shooting on the Clio began. We cleaned every sensor we could remove and pulled the plugs. Everything looked in order and the car once more was running in fine fettle. Well for one lap. As the car wasn't stalling, they kept lapping, keeping the car under 4000 RPM. The rest of the day never having a stoppage.
I'd finally got some quality rubber on the front and immediately found that knackered rubber on your arse makes for some wild oversteer. The car back on form I kept lapping. The brake pads really holding me back from letting loose. The whole day was more of a learning experience than hot lapping. The Civic being faultless all day. The thicker 5w-40 oil not being converted to smoke and running crisp for the whole day. At Blyton park the thing used half it's oil on the stick in the morning. This time not moving a micron. I love this car. Not the best, but plucky underdog. I like that character.
We drove home about 3pm. All feeling tiered yet had a total blast. Only felt like we had been there 5 minutes. The best fun I've had with my trousers on. Saying that, I'll take trousers on fun any day.
That was my birthday trackday over. Brilliant. Little did we predict that we would be back in 3 weeks. It's Ricks birthday then. So another day out it was...
I'm sure I've missed some details here but the day wasn't about how well we hit each apex. The whole thing was to laugh with mate, drive fast, laugh some more, work on cars, talk to everyone, drive, learn, gain experience and most importantly have fun.
No, it's not as fun as my MR2 and it's not as capable as the Boxster, but yet the attitude of the car is what matters. It's like a Jack Russel. It will not be as fast as a Greyhound, but quite happy being mental.
The diagnosis in the end for the Clio was a crank angle sensor! Only figured out once back in the shed and got a scanner tool on it. Simple fix. The ECU had a code in it and yet not put a light on in the dash. Something I mentioned at the time I had seen before. I mean, I mentioned crank angle sensor on the day too, amongst four dozen other things. Hindsight and that. She was running well once fixed!
Few pictures from the day.
Bits of rubber everywhere
Diagnosing the Clio without much success over dinner. We a bunch of outcasts
All took by James on his phone. Next update it's back to Cadwell. A spoiler to the present day. The bug has bit, we are planning a trip to Spa Francorchamps and a dash over for some Touristfahren while in its vicinity.
The first Cadwell track day was an exciting plan. The brakes repaired after Blyton park adventures, I was feeling unnerved about their abilities ahead.
The morning was a great start as I was running late, even with enough time to get ready. Was supposed to be meeting Rick at his house for 6am. Got there at 6:15am. Not that it would matter as at this hour, traffic would be extinct. The first 20 minutes of driving was in darkness following Rick. His Clio 172 gently bobbing on its puggyback. I watched the sun rise listening to K series thrum. The skyline simmering with the whole colour spectrum.
We were first to arrive. It was 7:10am. The dew in the air still languishing. Clio Sport under its ice blanket.
I did my track preps while waiting for Andy. At Blyton I’d jettisoned a wheel centre cap, they come off as track prep now. Tyre pressures lowered, tools and equipment out the car into the tow rig. The duo attended to the Clio. We let it defrost itself. It was a pig to start again, not a good beginning.
I checked my oil to keep nervous at bay and fiddled with the camera mounts. The other two were murmuring in the background. We were waiting for Andy to show up. Should have been there by now. Predictable. Time was pressing on and we needed to eat. Andy would have to catch up in his own time.
8:30am safety briefing began. They try to make it as entertaining as they can. A few jeers and giggles from the participants. Shows were are listening to a degree.
Andy wasn't far behind. I owed him a coffee to go with his breakfast. Passengers don’t have to attend the safety brief, but he was there.
Wrist bands, straight out for sighting laps. 3 laps to gauge the track conditions and learn which way it goes. I already knew the track layout. The conditions were a different matter. The apex on entry to Charlies was an ice disaster.
I was second out behind the safety car. Seat Ibiza, a Caterham, then me. Nip through woods, hairpin then barn corner, the Caterham pirouettes into the Armco. Red flag. Annoying to say the least. We all qued back up once more.
Sighting laps done once more without note, I did some final checks before the real hot laps. Oil, tyre pressures, cameras and my bladder.
I knew the track conditions were poor, so I wasn't going to learn anything that I didn't already know from driving the track on various games. So I thought; you don't get the feel for bumps and camber changes in virtual reality. Nothing eventful about my first real bunch of hot laps. The greasy surface and frost in the shade kept everyone in a fairly sensible head.
In the 'pits', Andy has brought a stove and is making us fresh tea. Selfless as usual. I sat on the back of the trailer thinking about the whole situation. I love tea; it was still frosty out. The sun had started to poke through.
I'd been running the same tyres since I bought these wheels for the car. The Bridgestone Potenza RE050A. Good enough tyres, I'd never thought the dry performance to be bad, but the wet abilities are totally none progressive. Particularly as I'd swapped the cracking rears with the new fronts. Logic being that this would get rid of them for fresh rubber. They are an old design now.
I gauged them not lasting all day, maybe not even while dinner.
James was walking back from spectating and Rick was pulling in from his first laps. We shared tips on track conditions. Clio running well this morning. Rick doesn't like tea.
A dry line had already started appearing. Speed was building with experience, confidence and conditions. The new brakes were finally getting some action. They were cooking again. The days laps were going to be easy on the stopping.
The morning went without note. Andy was in and out with me. James and Rick alternating the driving. The Clio not getting much of a break.
It pulls in choking on itself again. I felt bad, but rick took it well. It was nearly dinner time and not to drive the car anymore would be a waste. It was missing in a particular RPM band. So carry on we must.
I went out for one more session before dinner with Andy aboard. The car feeling good and the driving line properly dry by now. Aside from the brakes everything was going well. Towards the end of the session the front tyres went off like a switch. I'd never experienced that before. They were done. I pushed on for more laps anyway. They weren't going to get any better, so make the best of them.
By dinner time the Clio was really running bad. Would not spin past 4000 RPM. My tyres needing swapping to the rear to make it to the end of the day. We went for dinner and decided to let everything cool before doing any work.
The guys next to us were on their first track day. The car was fast on a straight and could have been even quicker in the bends. We offered our tools and supplies to them through the day. It was an early twenties lad with his dad. We suggested the car was too low for track work, but they didn't seem to think so. I was already rubbing under heavy loading (something I learnt how bad it was on the day). By dinner time the two of them had serious rubbing issues. So much so they had pulled in with a fairly major knocking sound from the front of the car. A simple diagnosis, the offside front wheel was falling off. I offered our torque wrench and anything they may need. They said they were alright.
At dinner time we made small talk. Polite stuff, wondering if they wanted to join us over dinner. We all politely suggested, while you eat and the car is cooling, you could raise the ride height up some. Deaf ears.
Early afternoon they limped it back in with a broken bottom wishbone.
Shame, they were quite good out there. Great track etiquette and friendly folk.Now whether it was caused by low ride height, probably not. I can't help think if the tyres weren't 'tucking', then it wouldn't have happened.
After a really nice but over priced dinner, the trouble shooting on the Clio began. We cleaned every sensor we could remove and pulled the plugs. Everything looked in order and the car once more was running in fine fettle. Well for one lap. As the car wasn't stalling, they kept lapping, keeping the car under 4000 RPM. The rest of the day never having a stoppage.
I'd finally got some quality rubber on the front and immediately found that knackered rubber on your arse makes for some wild oversteer. The car back on form I kept lapping. The brake pads really holding me back from letting loose. The whole day was more of a learning experience than hot lapping. The Civic being faultless all day. The thicker 5w-40 oil not being converted to smoke and running crisp for the whole day. At Blyton park the thing used half it's oil on the stick in the morning. This time not moving a micron. I love this car. Not the best, but plucky underdog. I like that character.
We drove home about 3pm. All feeling tiered yet had a total blast. Only felt like we had been there 5 minutes. The best fun I've had with my trousers on. Saying that, I'll take trousers on fun any day.
That was my birthday trackday over. Brilliant. Little did we predict that we would be back in 3 weeks. It's Ricks birthday then. So another day out it was...
I'm sure I've missed some details here but the day wasn't about how well we hit each apex. The whole thing was to laugh with mate, drive fast, laugh some more, work on cars, talk to everyone, drive, learn, gain experience and most importantly have fun.
No, it's not as fun as my MR2 and it's not as capable as the Boxster, but yet the attitude of the car is what matters. It's like a Jack Russel. It will not be as fast as a Greyhound, but quite happy being mental.
The diagnosis in the end for the Clio was a crank angle sensor! Only figured out once back in the shed and got a scanner tool on it. Simple fix. The ECU had a code in it and yet not put a light on in the dash. Something I mentioned at the time I had seen before. I mean, I mentioned crank angle sensor on the day too, amongst four dozen other things. Hindsight and that. She was running well once fixed!
Few pictures from the day.
Bits of rubber everywhere
Diagnosing the Clio without much success over dinner. We a bunch of outcasts
All took by James on his phone. Next update it's back to Cadwell. A spoiler to the present day. The bug has bit, we are planning a trip to Spa Francorchamps and a dash over for some Touristfahren while in its vicinity.
Edited by Sillyhatday on Monday 24th December 23:00
Edited by Sillyhatday on Monday 24th December 23:19
chrismc1977 said:
Standard Honda brake cooling is generally a weak point.
A bit of attention to extra cooling along with some decent fluid & track pads should help...
Thanks. I've have since sorted it out. Changed all the fluid for ATE Typ 200 DOT4, slotted dimpled discs and Ferodo 2500 pads. Everyone uses them for a reason. They just work. When I write the next track day I'll go into a little more detail. It certainly solved the issue. I've looked at Mugen brake ducts to replace the fog lights. I feel that will be the next upgrade. I can't justify a big brake kit I'm afraid.A bit of attention to extra cooling along with some decent fluid & track pads should help...
I might write it tonight. Nothing else going on after work!
Cheers mate. I keep meaning to write some more stuff. The whole other trackday in November I did for one
I agree on the Brembos mate. Look great and will certainly work much better. I got two other cars to look after also, so can't justify £1000+ on front brakes. I've been looking at cheaper options though believe me. Such as fitting Megane brakes, yet still comes out to the same figure
The spoiler on the other hand, isn't for me. That's not a fact, just personal preference. Nice motor though mate!
I agree on the Brembos mate. Look great and will certainly work much better. I got two other cars to look after also, so can't justify £1000+ on front brakes. I've been looking at cheaper options though believe me. Such as fitting Megane brakes, yet still comes out to the same figure
The spoiler on the other hand, isn't for me. That's not a fact, just personal preference. Nice motor though mate!
Cadwell track session number two. A happy new year people.
Starting to feel like home after attending various rallies, races and firework shows. Familiarity of home, causes relaxed nervous. As in non. Something I was conscious of coming into it this time around.
I was running late.
A pattern is emerging here. Which is strange as I’m never late for anything, I’m the one who’s there before everyone else.
The spicy burritos I made last night were slowing me down. Parp. Kettle flicked on, tea bag thrown in the Thermos mug and out to throw the supplies in from the garage. A nicefold out plastic crate this time for all the things. Engine warming nicely. The poor girl doesn’t like being driven stone cold.
Tea bag squeezed out, milk in, lid on.
Piano black outside still, its only 6am on Sunday.
Fog. I’m not far from the river, this fog follows it. I’m going to the bridge to cross the river. Good job I told Rick I wasn’t going to make it to him by 6.15am.
Going to meet him does take me out the way of the route somewhat, but I like to follow him to roll up together and keep an eye on the trailer straps. Not today.
No body else is around at this time on this day. Should still make solid progress to arrive at gate opening time. I am always before everyone else. So not late actually, just not on my time. The Kseries yawn breaks the air.
This time I’d packed more cameras. DSLR just in case, another new go pro and another eBay special cam. I needed the pre sign on time to do my car checks and prep, along with camera mounting in everyone's cars. This time Andy would be joining in with his Jetta 2.0 Diesel. A trackday in anything is better than no track day I say.
The roads out of town towards Cadwell were empty. The small elevation increase put me above the fog. Me, tea, top gear and my dull morning ache. Bliss. 6.15am.
So what has happened to the car since last time? Well the wheel rub had to go, it was ruining tyres. The tyres were already ruined. Now, the Rota GR6’s are a 10mm wider offset. So the car has a 20mm wider track. The Coilovers had a longer bracket to fasten to the hubs. This pushed to wheels camber upright! I had pulled it back to what I thought was factory just through visual. (on the top mounts) I think it was close, but the car had even wider front track now. Flush with the wheel arch edge. Looks good but not doing much for going fast.
I whacked the hub slots right over and set the top mount adjustment back to centre. The camber looked much better without being extreme. Hoping that would clear the arches enough. It was!
Issue now being that I need a proper alignment. Well I did before, but just go with it.
Now when the wheel hub gets tilted back, the steering arms don’t change length. Meaning that the hub gained much needed camber, yet bags of toe in at the same time! The steering was completely numb.
In the end I got a tracking board to use to set my toe angles. This of course will not be as good as a proper laser alignment. This way though, I’m learning and that’s what matters. I also got a camber gauge. You stick it onto your wheel centre, or even better, on the brake disc. Being a spirit level based system, you need flat ground. I’ve not had the time.
The toe was desperate, so that has been set to dead straight. It was 2deg toe in each side before. So at this point I thought I had 0deg toe and more camber of an unknown amount though even on each side.
After the last time, there were new tyres fitted. A full set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4’s. More expensive than the Potenza’s I have had many sets of. I fancied a change to something more modern. The Potenza’s have been around for an age now.
I knew I couldn’t be far behind the guys. Their trip is slightly longer due to the stupid narrow roads from Ricks place. I worked out to be about 10 minutes behind. Could I make that time up?
The roads that are always full of Sundays drivers and Peugeot’s are totally barren. You wonder if the world has ended in your sleep. I don’t remember seeing another car all the way there.
The B roads as I drew close were bumpy. The ride feels firmer than stock, yet better damping. The bumps are still harsh, but the car doesn’t skip across bumps any more. Nice.
Rick pulled into Cadwell as I did. As he was parking up, so was I to his supprise. 7.10am.
We unloaded the car off his trailer. Precarious at best with home made ramps. They are plenty strong just a bit too short. The Clio just about catches its nose on the end.
Andy was only five minutes behind. Just before, I emptied my car of tools and camera equipment. I setup the go pro mounts in the cars while the other two wrangled our tent canopy thing into submission. First thing in the morning we looked stupid getting that thing setup. Until about an hour into the session when it just rained on and off the whole day. We felt pretty smug, not rushing around to sit in cars or heard into the club house! Our own kettle, boxes of sausage rolls.
The briefing was as boring as ever.
Think I was first one out on track. Wasn’t even rushing around that much.
Rather uneventful start to the day. The first hour and a half was mostly just getting familiar with everything once again. The car feeling better than it ever has done. Nothing in particular to note, just well balanced. Found I can keep up with other more powerful cars, mostly tuned ones. I guess the concentration put into the cars handling has been worthwhile. Not arsed about speed anyway. I can still hit 105mph on both straights at Cadwell. Fast enough for me. I suppose it could use a diff for the tighter corners. Not all that bothered though.
The track was wet from the off and wasn’t drying out. Confirmed when about 10am it started raining, hard. The spray was somewhat terrifying down the straights. Cars a few meters in front would vanish into the mist and even ones you were overtaking. You just rely on seeing brake lights in front to know where they are and where the corner is. That’s when on the other side of the track to me someone blew up their Civic. Yellow race car I think. Red flag for an hour and a half. Gutted wasn’t the word.
I spend some of the time moving go pro’s and topping the batteries up. The rest of it the rain started again. We all dove under our canopy and waited it out with fresh tea and sausage rolls. Managed to find out the Civic had dumped all its engine oil on the track. We never found out exactly where. Safe to say that after this, people were ready to get on track.
We had already had quite a few short red flags before this. People over driving the conditions of the track. Followed by people forgetting their car is cooler than it was before the red flag and causing another red flag. Red was the colour of the day.
This time Andy had joined in on track with his daily VW Jetta. The 2.0tdi no less. It has some exhaust mods and a tune on it, but dyno reports 170 – 180hp. Which falls in line with what you should be getting with those mods.
The car was running budget eco tyres as it is a daily drive. Now, the wet grip was laughable. The difference between gripping and sliding was immediate. There was no warning of its happening. Yet once broken away, the whole car was so forgiving. It would slide around so predictably and controllable, I had more fun in this later in the day than my own car! A nice change from frantic to fun.
I have a nice video of the Jetta spinning out on the goose neck from in the car and from my view. Hilariously slow spin. Great fun car, very surprising.
Most of my thoughts on track were about the new tyres. For such a high grip performance tyre, its wet grip was outstanding. The confidence in the tyres never wavered all day. I certainly couldn’t have said the same for the Bridgestones in the wet. The Pilot sports still feeling progressive in the wet. Even as I type this I haven't had the chance to push them in the dry. Really this is why I didn’t go for a more dry grip bias tyre, I have to drive the car on the road, so there is compromise.
I had a few twitchy moments which was down to myself. Both of them right after overtaking a car. I learnt its much easier to follow someone then to lead. Even though I was faster than them, you have to reconfigure yourself to make your own corner judgements. You only learn through mistakes.
The Clio had been running great all day. We were very happy. I was happy for Rick. The first time the car has been reliable for him. Both him and James were finally able to concentrate on driving and learn where they can improve along with the car.
The first car improvement we all agreed was the suspension. The budget for that was not like what I spent on a set of coilovers. The Clio has done nearly 100k miles, so I said simply replace everything for new, that alone will improve things a whole bunch.
We spent dinner in the canopy (genius idea of Andy’s) and the afternoon went without much to say.
The time hit 3pm and I was following James on track. He knows I’m faster and would eventually let me through. We took the hairpin together, James clipped the inside curb and I followed without trying to smash the kerb. He had slowed off on the exit. I thought he was letting me past but I don’t like overtaking on this short stretch. He was going slow around barn corner too, I figured I’d let him be weird and make nothing of it. Once on to the main straight his hazards came on and he was slowing down. I was gutted as I flew past him. Eased off early for coppice as I knew there would be a red flag and I’ll use the time to cool down the car.
Once I got back to our group, I felt bad but let them know what happened. We theorised as you always do. The car was recovered back into the paddock area. James looked gutted through his helmet. The car had been a pain every time but it always drive back onto the trailer. This time it wasn’t.
Strange symptoms. All the gears are there and the clutch felt fine. The car wouldn’t move and yet there were no grinding noises. At the time we didn’t know of the issue, but anyone who knows these Clios, knows the diff likes to fall apart. There was enough people to help push back onto the trailer and I went for one more session to run out the fuel in the car.
About 3:30pm and we were all done. Kettle boiling while packing everything away. Really it was a good result. Nobody got hurt and nobody had a prang.
To sum up. Well this was the first Sunday at Cadwell. I’m not sure that matters but since the other two days I’ve done, the track etiquette was poor. It’s not everybody, yet it’s the same few cars that endlessly get in the way or are dangerous. Now let me say, I know these days are for people of all skill levels. Slower cars are not an issue, so long as within half a lap they let you past. This requires you to be aware of things around you, if other drivers are, you don’t consider them a hazard. Exactly the same as driving on the road. We aren’t all perfect and I’m not easily annoyed. The track is for everyone to enjoy.
What gets me is people who don’t move for two or more laps. I still now don’t know if: they do not want to be overtaken, or do not know you are there! It’s the same few, that 2%. There were also a group of MX-5 owners there, who were of the latter. The driving erratic and nervous. No problem, can’t say I could do better on a wet day in a rear drive car. Use your head and give them space until one of the two long straights. They certainly knew how to go fast in a straight line. Ready to hold you up again for the next corners. This went on for a few hours. The final straw was after one of there MANY spins and crashes, I watched one pull off the grass with no regard to who was on the track. The car in front had to dive half onto the grass, as he was not expecting an MX-5 to pull across right in front of him. I had to let the marshals know as someone could get really hurt.
To not end on a downer, here’s some favourites from the day.
In the morning I had a good play with another FN2, a rare blue coloured one too! It took me by surprise popping flames and being really loud when it did. I guessed it was supercharged due to it being a bit faster than me in the straights. I was correct. He couldn’t shake me in the corners and made ground on me in the straights. We finally met in the paddock on a cool down and had a nice chat. His face when he asked what engine mods I had done was brilliant. The response of “Nothing” was not what he expected. Non the less a really nice guy and one of the better drivers of the day. He didn’t have as good a suspension setup as me but had some big brakes, I was much jelous.
I also had a play with a Skoda Fabia VRS. 1.4 turbo I think it was. Really nice car and really nice guy. After pulling in I found out the guy had only one arm. My opinion went from; this guy is a bit erratic, to, this guy is much better than me. Top bloke. Got some balls.
So, the Clio. The famous diff problem was the issue. There is a circlip in the diff somewhere, it is accessible by just removing the nearside drive shaft from the box. The clip over use just buggers off. Now this lets the gear it holds in place move free along the shaft it sits on. Then obviously this gear disengages and can get damaged when it happens. That’s how I see it anyway.
Now once it’s happened its more likely to happen again. So it’s best to replace the gear and the circlip. Now Renault don’t make that gear any more. So if, you find a good one, the price is sky high. Now you could get a second hand box, but it could already have been robbed of parts, some people are honest, some aren’t. In the end after machinist advice the gear was cleaned up as best as possible and put back in. The fix then is to bolt a plate in the box to the housing, stopping it from moving ever again.
Im sure it’s not 100% right but what I remember anyway.
It also got a new wheel hub and bottom ball joints. The top mount on the strut tower was bent on one side. Somehow we never noticed this. The car had a shunt before Rick bought it so it was no supprise. With it bashed into shape and a re-enforcement plate welded on, the rubber top mount was totally misshapen. So they were replaced with solid pillowball top mount adapters. To me, how they should always have been. Now obviously the old suspension was binned at that point too and replaced with some lowering springs and cup rated dampers. I assume from the Clio cup cars. Just going with what I was told. Car sits lower now and also firmer.
So I finally got myself up to date. Nearly. I went for a Jolly to Blyton park on December 30th just to help shakedown the car since Cadwell. Mostly as we have booked a Trackday at Spa Circuit in April!
Photos:
The Jetta after its offroad excursion
Cars cooling down
Waiting the the worlds longest red flag to be over.
Hiding from the weather in our badly excited shelter. Dry though!
Jetta doing its favourite thing. The rear can brake away under power, it’s hilarious FWD fun.
A good lesson in car control and being smooth. I could learn a thing or two.
Clio rolling a fair bit on the corners. The tiered suspension not helping. It’s much better now.
Trying to cock its leg. Cant do it in the wet
Our misfits group.
The Clio got a quality send off.
Number plates going back on.
Loaded up and having our last cup of tea.
Videos on Youtube. My channel link. I’m trying to get better at it. I’m hoping to have a good film of our Spa trip when we are back.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ubanoob
or just search for sillyhatday.
Starting to feel like home after attending various rallies, races and firework shows. Familiarity of home, causes relaxed nervous. As in non. Something I was conscious of coming into it this time around.
I was running late.
A pattern is emerging here. Which is strange as I’m never late for anything, I’m the one who’s there before everyone else.
The spicy burritos I made last night were slowing me down. Parp. Kettle flicked on, tea bag thrown in the Thermos mug and out to throw the supplies in from the garage. A nicefold out plastic crate this time for all the things. Engine warming nicely. The poor girl doesn’t like being driven stone cold.
Tea bag squeezed out, milk in, lid on.
Piano black outside still, its only 6am on Sunday.
Fog. I’m not far from the river, this fog follows it. I’m going to the bridge to cross the river. Good job I told Rick I wasn’t going to make it to him by 6.15am.
Going to meet him does take me out the way of the route somewhat, but I like to follow him to roll up together and keep an eye on the trailer straps. Not today.
No body else is around at this time on this day. Should still make solid progress to arrive at gate opening time. I am always before everyone else. So not late actually, just not on my time. The Kseries yawn breaks the air.
This time I’d packed more cameras. DSLR just in case, another new go pro and another eBay special cam. I needed the pre sign on time to do my car checks and prep, along with camera mounting in everyone's cars. This time Andy would be joining in with his Jetta 2.0 Diesel. A trackday in anything is better than no track day I say.
The roads out of town towards Cadwell were empty. The small elevation increase put me above the fog. Me, tea, top gear and my dull morning ache. Bliss. 6.15am.
So what has happened to the car since last time? Well the wheel rub had to go, it was ruining tyres. The tyres were already ruined. Now, the Rota GR6’s are a 10mm wider offset. So the car has a 20mm wider track. The Coilovers had a longer bracket to fasten to the hubs. This pushed to wheels camber upright! I had pulled it back to what I thought was factory just through visual. (on the top mounts) I think it was close, but the car had even wider front track now. Flush with the wheel arch edge. Looks good but not doing much for going fast.
I whacked the hub slots right over and set the top mount adjustment back to centre. The camber looked much better without being extreme. Hoping that would clear the arches enough. It was!
Issue now being that I need a proper alignment. Well I did before, but just go with it.
Now when the wheel hub gets tilted back, the steering arms don’t change length. Meaning that the hub gained much needed camber, yet bags of toe in at the same time! The steering was completely numb.
In the end I got a tracking board to use to set my toe angles. This of course will not be as good as a proper laser alignment. This way though, I’m learning and that’s what matters. I also got a camber gauge. You stick it onto your wheel centre, or even better, on the brake disc. Being a spirit level based system, you need flat ground. I’ve not had the time.
The toe was desperate, so that has been set to dead straight. It was 2deg toe in each side before. So at this point I thought I had 0deg toe and more camber of an unknown amount though even on each side.
After the last time, there were new tyres fitted. A full set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4’s. More expensive than the Potenza’s I have had many sets of. I fancied a change to something more modern. The Potenza’s have been around for an age now.
I knew I couldn’t be far behind the guys. Their trip is slightly longer due to the stupid narrow roads from Ricks place. I worked out to be about 10 minutes behind. Could I make that time up?
The roads that are always full of Sundays drivers and Peugeot’s are totally barren. You wonder if the world has ended in your sleep. I don’t remember seeing another car all the way there.
The B roads as I drew close were bumpy. The ride feels firmer than stock, yet better damping. The bumps are still harsh, but the car doesn’t skip across bumps any more. Nice.
Rick pulled into Cadwell as I did. As he was parking up, so was I to his supprise. 7.10am.
We unloaded the car off his trailer. Precarious at best with home made ramps. They are plenty strong just a bit too short. The Clio just about catches its nose on the end.
Andy was only five minutes behind. Just before, I emptied my car of tools and camera equipment. I setup the go pro mounts in the cars while the other two wrangled our tent canopy thing into submission. First thing in the morning we looked stupid getting that thing setup. Until about an hour into the session when it just rained on and off the whole day. We felt pretty smug, not rushing around to sit in cars or heard into the club house! Our own kettle, boxes of sausage rolls.
The briefing was as boring as ever.
Think I was first one out on track. Wasn’t even rushing around that much.
Rather uneventful start to the day. The first hour and a half was mostly just getting familiar with everything once again. The car feeling better than it ever has done. Nothing in particular to note, just well balanced. Found I can keep up with other more powerful cars, mostly tuned ones. I guess the concentration put into the cars handling has been worthwhile. Not arsed about speed anyway. I can still hit 105mph on both straights at Cadwell. Fast enough for me. I suppose it could use a diff for the tighter corners. Not all that bothered though.
The track was wet from the off and wasn’t drying out. Confirmed when about 10am it started raining, hard. The spray was somewhat terrifying down the straights. Cars a few meters in front would vanish into the mist and even ones you were overtaking. You just rely on seeing brake lights in front to know where they are and where the corner is. That’s when on the other side of the track to me someone blew up their Civic. Yellow race car I think. Red flag for an hour and a half. Gutted wasn’t the word.
I spend some of the time moving go pro’s and topping the batteries up. The rest of it the rain started again. We all dove under our canopy and waited it out with fresh tea and sausage rolls. Managed to find out the Civic had dumped all its engine oil on the track. We never found out exactly where. Safe to say that after this, people were ready to get on track.
We had already had quite a few short red flags before this. People over driving the conditions of the track. Followed by people forgetting their car is cooler than it was before the red flag and causing another red flag. Red was the colour of the day.
This time Andy had joined in on track with his daily VW Jetta. The 2.0tdi no less. It has some exhaust mods and a tune on it, but dyno reports 170 – 180hp. Which falls in line with what you should be getting with those mods.
The car was running budget eco tyres as it is a daily drive. Now, the wet grip was laughable. The difference between gripping and sliding was immediate. There was no warning of its happening. Yet once broken away, the whole car was so forgiving. It would slide around so predictably and controllable, I had more fun in this later in the day than my own car! A nice change from frantic to fun.
I have a nice video of the Jetta spinning out on the goose neck from in the car and from my view. Hilariously slow spin. Great fun car, very surprising.
Most of my thoughts on track were about the new tyres. For such a high grip performance tyre, its wet grip was outstanding. The confidence in the tyres never wavered all day. I certainly couldn’t have said the same for the Bridgestones in the wet. The Pilot sports still feeling progressive in the wet. Even as I type this I haven't had the chance to push them in the dry. Really this is why I didn’t go for a more dry grip bias tyre, I have to drive the car on the road, so there is compromise.
I had a few twitchy moments which was down to myself. Both of them right after overtaking a car. I learnt its much easier to follow someone then to lead. Even though I was faster than them, you have to reconfigure yourself to make your own corner judgements. You only learn through mistakes.
The Clio had been running great all day. We were very happy. I was happy for Rick. The first time the car has been reliable for him. Both him and James were finally able to concentrate on driving and learn where they can improve along with the car.
The first car improvement we all agreed was the suspension. The budget for that was not like what I spent on a set of coilovers. The Clio has done nearly 100k miles, so I said simply replace everything for new, that alone will improve things a whole bunch.
We spent dinner in the canopy (genius idea of Andy’s) and the afternoon went without much to say.
The time hit 3pm and I was following James on track. He knows I’m faster and would eventually let me through. We took the hairpin together, James clipped the inside curb and I followed without trying to smash the kerb. He had slowed off on the exit. I thought he was letting me past but I don’t like overtaking on this short stretch. He was going slow around barn corner too, I figured I’d let him be weird and make nothing of it. Once on to the main straight his hazards came on and he was slowing down. I was gutted as I flew past him. Eased off early for coppice as I knew there would be a red flag and I’ll use the time to cool down the car.
Once I got back to our group, I felt bad but let them know what happened. We theorised as you always do. The car was recovered back into the paddock area. James looked gutted through his helmet. The car had been a pain every time but it always drive back onto the trailer. This time it wasn’t.
Strange symptoms. All the gears are there and the clutch felt fine. The car wouldn’t move and yet there were no grinding noises. At the time we didn’t know of the issue, but anyone who knows these Clios, knows the diff likes to fall apart. There was enough people to help push back onto the trailer and I went for one more session to run out the fuel in the car.
About 3:30pm and we were all done. Kettle boiling while packing everything away. Really it was a good result. Nobody got hurt and nobody had a prang.
To sum up. Well this was the first Sunday at Cadwell. I’m not sure that matters but since the other two days I’ve done, the track etiquette was poor. It’s not everybody, yet it’s the same few cars that endlessly get in the way or are dangerous. Now let me say, I know these days are for people of all skill levels. Slower cars are not an issue, so long as within half a lap they let you past. This requires you to be aware of things around you, if other drivers are, you don’t consider them a hazard. Exactly the same as driving on the road. We aren’t all perfect and I’m not easily annoyed. The track is for everyone to enjoy.
What gets me is people who don’t move for two or more laps. I still now don’t know if: they do not want to be overtaken, or do not know you are there! It’s the same few, that 2%. There were also a group of MX-5 owners there, who were of the latter. The driving erratic and nervous. No problem, can’t say I could do better on a wet day in a rear drive car. Use your head and give them space until one of the two long straights. They certainly knew how to go fast in a straight line. Ready to hold you up again for the next corners. This went on for a few hours. The final straw was after one of there MANY spins and crashes, I watched one pull off the grass with no regard to who was on the track. The car in front had to dive half onto the grass, as he was not expecting an MX-5 to pull across right in front of him. I had to let the marshals know as someone could get really hurt.
To not end on a downer, here’s some favourites from the day.
In the morning I had a good play with another FN2, a rare blue coloured one too! It took me by surprise popping flames and being really loud when it did. I guessed it was supercharged due to it being a bit faster than me in the straights. I was correct. He couldn’t shake me in the corners and made ground on me in the straights. We finally met in the paddock on a cool down and had a nice chat. His face when he asked what engine mods I had done was brilliant. The response of “Nothing” was not what he expected. Non the less a really nice guy and one of the better drivers of the day. He didn’t have as good a suspension setup as me but had some big brakes, I was much jelous.
I also had a play with a Skoda Fabia VRS. 1.4 turbo I think it was. Really nice car and really nice guy. After pulling in I found out the guy had only one arm. My opinion went from; this guy is a bit erratic, to, this guy is much better than me. Top bloke. Got some balls.
So, the Clio. The famous diff problem was the issue. There is a circlip in the diff somewhere, it is accessible by just removing the nearside drive shaft from the box. The clip over use just buggers off. Now this lets the gear it holds in place move free along the shaft it sits on. Then obviously this gear disengages and can get damaged when it happens. That’s how I see it anyway.
Now once it’s happened its more likely to happen again. So it’s best to replace the gear and the circlip. Now Renault don’t make that gear any more. So if, you find a good one, the price is sky high. Now you could get a second hand box, but it could already have been robbed of parts, some people are honest, some aren’t. In the end after machinist advice the gear was cleaned up as best as possible and put back in. The fix then is to bolt a plate in the box to the housing, stopping it from moving ever again.
Im sure it’s not 100% right but what I remember anyway.
It also got a new wheel hub and bottom ball joints. The top mount on the strut tower was bent on one side. Somehow we never noticed this. The car had a shunt before Rick bought it so it was no supprise. With it bashed into shape and a re-enforcement plate welded on, the rubber top mount was totally misshapen. So they were replaced with solid pillowball top mount adapters. To me, how they should always have been. Now obviously the old suspension was binned at that point too and replaced with some lowering springs and cup rated dampers. I assume from the Clio cup cars. Just going with what I was told. Car sits lower now and also firmer.
So I finally got myself up to date. Nearly. I went for a Jolly to Blyton park on December 30th just to help shakedown the car since Cadwell. Mostly as we have booked a Trackday at Spa Circuit in April!
Photos:
The Jetta after its offroad excursion
Cars cooling down
Waiting the the worlds longest red flag to be over.
Hiding from the weather in our badly excited shelter. Dry though!
Jetta doing its favourite thing. The rear can brake away under power, it’s hilarious FWD fun.
A good lesson in car control and being smooth. I could learn a thing or two.
Clio rolling a fair bit on the corners. The tiered suspension not helping. It’s much better now.
Trying to cock its leg. Cant do it in the wet
Our misfits group.
The Clio got a quality send off.
Number plates going back on.
Loaded up and having our last cup of tea.
Videos on Youtube. My channel link. I’m trying to get better at it. I’m hoping to have a good film of our Spa trip when we are back.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ubanoob
or just search for sillyhatday.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff