Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
Joey Deacon said:
I suspect that none of the results you get from companies that track your car are "perfect". They are probably good enough and because there is no point of reference nobody ever knows.
I suspect when your investigation has done is prove this fact, and if you are anything like me you want it to be absolutely perfect and spot on which is just not possible in reality due to variances in the equipment, floor etc.
I struggle to believe that some axle stands and a bit of string are more accurate than the machines you currently own.
"Perfect is the enemy of good"
I'm agree with you, small differences to adjustments make a big difference to the numbers. For example it's really hard to tighten my toe arms or track rods up without changing the values on the screen. If I'm measuring on a string kit it'll be to the nearest mm, definately not more accurate than the systems I've got but as you aren't seeing the values it's a case of ignorance is bliss. I suspect when your investigation has done is prove this fact, and if you are anything like me you want it to be absolutely perfect and spot on which is just not possible in reality due to variances in the equipment, floor etc.
I struggle to believe that some axle stands and a bit of string are more accurate than the machines you currently own.
"Perfect is the enemy of good"
If the car is driving straight and handles fine, that's all the matters. The issue is, I want to know it's right. If I could find someone to calibrate either of these systems I've got I'd be a lot more happy to use them. I can imagine it's expensive to the point of not being worth it. Both of these systems I've got were being used by garages for wheel alignments within the last few years so I'd assume they are in the ballpark.
Laser is good for speed and additional info, string is cheap, accurate and slow.
It is of course also down to the user and the quality of laser equipment, anyone can make a mess of either.
The first time you use string it will take hours to set up and get your head around it. One thing which makes it difficult is that the front and rear tyres/wheels, but mainly track width are often different.
Once you've worked it out it gets quicker.
One thing which makes laser inaccurate is the width of the laser beam itself. If it's poor and it's gone the length of the car it could be 5mm wide....
You can't make much money using string on other peoples cars.
Mikeeb said:
There’s not many high level race teams that don’t use string and a ruler.
I've won two championships using tape measures, tracking plates and a good inclinometer.. so I wouldn't hesitate using that method for a road car to have the odd blat in. Don't let your OCD get the better of you!! There is no such thing as perfect. If the car drives well and the tyres aren't wearing unevenly, put it to the back of your mind.
The systems I have are CCD rather than laser.
I put the cambelt on with all the covers left off so I could spot any leaks, I ran the engine for about an hour, as it warmed up, oil seeped from various places, cleaned it up and it didn't return. Other than the leak on the bank 1 cam cover which I knew was definately leaking before hand. It looks like what's been happening is the oil leaks on the cam cover seals, then either drips down onto various hoses and runs down them or runs across the back of the cam belt covers and ends up all over the place. This is pretty much what I thought was happening but when there is oil all over the place it's hard to be sure.
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My temporary engine mount while I ran it. You can see a drop of oil on the fitting for the oil cooler line, this was leaking and just needed pinching up.
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Leak from the cam cover seal I knew about.
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That's all I can do now, I've put it back together, just need to take it for a run and cry when it's covered in oil when I get back.
I put the cambelt on with all the covers left off so I could spot any leaks, I ran the engine for about an hour, as it warmed up, oil seeped from various places, cleaned it up and it didn't return. Other than the leak on the bank 1 cam cover which I knew was definately leaking before hand. It looks like what's been happening is the oil leaks on the cam cover seals, then either drips down onto various hoses and runs down them or runs across the back of the cam belt covers and ends up all over the place. This is pretty much what I thought was happening but when there is oil all over the place it's hard to be sure.
P5271353My temporary engine mount while I ran it. You can see a drop of oil on the fitting for the oil cooler line, this was leaking and just needed pinching up.
P5271354Leak from the cam cover seal I knew about.
P5271355That's all I can do now, I've put it back together, just need to take it for a run and cry when it's covered in oil when I get back.
I've driven it for the first time. Come back and there is a small spot of oil on the sump, not clear where that has come from. Also looks like the cam cover is leaking on bank 1 yet again, oil dripping off and running down the coolant hose. Neither look terrible but it was only a short drive, it'll probably end up a huge mess after some decent use.
The first time I drove it I had a boost pipe pop off when it came onto boost, there were no leaks then. After fixing it and a few pulls, it's leaking. That explains why I could have it idle for an hour with no leaks and first time it sees boost it's leaking. It does point to crankcase pressure but I've spent a load of time developing the PCV system, if my figures are accurate it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just going to just have to live with the oil leaks. I think a 2.7t that doesn't leak oil only exists in fairy tales. Disappointing but what I thought would probably happen.
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The first time I drove it I had a boost pipe pop off when it came onto boost, there were no leaks then. After fixing it and a few pulls, it's leaking. That explains why I could have it idle for an hour with no leaks and first time it sees boost it's leaking. It does point to crankcase pressure but I've spent a load of time developing the PCV system, if my figures are accurate it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just going to just have to live with the oil leaks. I think a 2.7t that doesn't leak oil only exists in fairy tales. Disappointing but what I thought would probably happen.
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I can't remember if you've performed a compression or leakdown test - worth doing if not.
If the engine is healthy then at this point I would junk the standard gaskets and use RTV instead. Many modern engines are put together this way and it's a damn sight more reliable than gaskets. The downside comes when removing and reinstalling the sealed parts - its time consuming.
If the engine is healthy then at this point I would junk the standard gaskets and use RTV instead. Many modern engines are put together this way and it's a damn sight more reliable than gaskets. The downside comes when removing and reinstalling the sealed parts - its time consuming.
I've done a compression test and a leak down test, there's no issues with the engine itself. Due to the design I can't ditch the seals as there is a large V that drops into a valley between the cam shaft caps. I could run silicone both sides of the seal. A previous owner tried that before and the oil pick up pipe was clogged up with silicone. Sure I can do a neater job.
Edited by Escy on Tuesday 31st May 14:40
Point taken that its still a type of RTV but Dirko is miles apart from the nasty bathroom sealer RTV that most parts places sell.
The best sealant I have used is a Chrysler branded product for sealing transmission pans containing ATF4+ fluid, also used in BMW ZF boxes.
This fluid is like liquid wax, not a chance of containing it with ordinary RTV, downside is a toothpaste sized tube of sealant costs £40 and it only keeps for a short while after opening.
The best sealant I have used is a Chrysler branded product for sealing transmission pans containing ATF4+ fluid, also used in BMW ZF boxes.
This fluid is like liquid wax, not a chance of containing it with ordinary RTV, downside is a toothpaste sized tube of sealant costs £40 and it only keeps for a short while after opening.
The threebond I recommended is used to seal crankcases and all-sorts without paper gaskets, metal to metal. I have built a number of engines using it. I have never had a leak.
The only thing is it doesn't like being applied to an oily surface, but I don't think any sealant does...? If everything is clean and all surfaces that need to be sealed are coated in it I would expect it to work.
The only thing is it doesn't like being applied to an oily surface, but I don't think any sealant does...? If everything is clean and all surfaces that need to be sealed are coated in it I would expect it to work.
I might have judged that oil leak too soon. Been out for a longer drive in it today, the sump is a little bit wet still but it's not enough that it looks like it's going to be dripping off it. Not an immediate concern. The oil on the coolant pipes I showed a photo of in the last post has dried up, that could have just been residual oil from the previous leak, it's started running when everything has warmed up. Either way, the Boxster is out of the garage now and I won't get a chance to look at it again for a while.
I went to the local Porsche dealer in it, my boss was collecting his new Taycan. It's the rwd version with the performance battery. I really like it.
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We had a quick blast on the way home, it turns out my Boxster is comfortably faster, even with wheel spin and a traction control ignition cut (huge bang from the exhaust). That was without methanol also. I was chuffed about that, I had assumed because it's electric it'd be quicker. Hopefully my Boxster will stay together for a while now and I can get some decent usage out of it. I'm feeling a lot happier with it now than I was a week ago.
Played around a bit more with the wheel alignment stuff, have decided to get rid of it all. I've got it so it's driving alright doesn't pull but the steering wheel never seems to be straight. I'm going to pay for an alignment for now and I'll look into it all again when I have a bit more time. I still haven't turned the boost all the way up since it was on the dyno last year. I fancy going back on, just to see where it's at currently. My phantom knock issue I had which has stopped me using the knock control on the ECU has been traced to a software issue on the ECU, Baldur is working on a fix for it so once that's nailed down I'll probably go back on the dyno.
I went to the local Porsche dealer in it, my boss was collecting his new Taycan. It's the rwd version with the performance battery. I really like it.
PXL_20220531_161505209We had a quick blast on the way home, it turns out my Boxster is comfortably faster, even with wheel spin and a traction control ignition cut (huge bang from the exhaust). That was without methanol also. I was chuffed about that, I had assumed because it's electric it'd be quicker. Hopefully my Boxster will stay together for a while now and I can get some decent usage out of it. I'm feeling a lot happier with it now than I was a week ago.
Played around a bit more with the wheel alignment stuff, have decided to get rid of it all. I've got it so it's driving alright doesn't pull but the steering wheel never seems to be straight. I'm going to pay for an alignment for now and I'll look into it all again when I have a bit more time. I still haven't turned the boost all the way up since it was on the dyno last year. I fancy going back on, just to see where it's at currently. My phantom knock issue I had which has stopped me using the knock control on the ECU has been traced to a software issue on the ECU, Baldur is working on a fix for it so once that's nailed down I'll probably go back on the dyno.
Yazza54 said:
The threebond I recommended is used to seal crankcases and all-sorts without paper gaskets, metal to metal. I have built a number of engines using it. I have never had a leak.
The only thing is it doesn't like being applied to an oily surface, but I don't think any sealant does...? If everything is clean and all surfaces that need to be sealed are coated in it I would expect it to work.
It does look good stuff, defiantly happy to give it a go. It's nice and thick, some of the stuff I've picked up at motor factors is a bit oily and running in comparison.The only thing is it doesn't like being applied to an oily surface, but I don't think any sealant does...? If everything is clean and all surfaces that need to be sealed are coated in it I would expect it to work.
Ever since fitting the big brakes I've had an issue with the ABS, if you are progressive on the brake pressure it seems to be alright but if you jump on them hard the ABS kicks in really early but doesn't actually do much to slow the car down, you get a hard brake pedal that feels like it's buzzing away but it's not slowing the car down. I'd have to come off the brakes and re-apply them. I'm not sure if it's technically correct or not but the internet seems to call this ice mode. When it happens it takes you by surprise, it's dangerous.
I've got a GT3 master cylinder, this is a common upgrade in Porsche circles I couldn't find anyone that's fitted the matching GT3 brake servo. I wanted to give this a try, using one off a spicy Porsche that had larger brakes, similar to what I have. I was looking for one off a 997 GT3, GT3RS, Turbo or GT2, as you can imagine parts off these models don't come up second hand often and when they do they are strong money, I think Porsche want around £700 for a new one.
With a bit of digging around I found the correct part, they are made by TRW for Porsche. It was £135 brand new in the box. I love a bargain and do my best to avoid Porsche tax. I figured even if it makes no difference it's worth rolling the dice on it for that price. The yellow dust cap had come off in the box and a few bits had worked their way loose and were rattling around but it all went back together fine so no big deal.
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This is the original one. The new one is a lot thicker, I did think it would be a nightmare to fit, I'd need to disconnect all the hydraulics but I managed to sneak it in with some fiddling.
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The plastic cover panel won't fit over it now so I cut it up a bit. Doesn't look good but it'll do for now. The one for a GT3, Turbo, etc is different, I don't know if it's a straight swap but I'll keep an eye out for one.
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Out for a test drive, the results are good, the meat of the brakes is more to the top of the pedal now, not better or worse than before in my opinion but a difference I noticed instantly. When doing an emergency stop the ABS kicks in and it actually stops the car like it should now so that's a result. Couple of pictures of the car out in the sun. It's filthy but looks clean in the photos.
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I also had another go with the wheel alignment equipment, put it back on and everything was bang on except the rear toe on the drivers side, I made that adjustment and it's driving spot on now and the steering wheel is straight. I'm happy with that. Not going to take it anywhere now.
A youtube video of this update but also with a couple of random driving bits chucked in, I'm biased but I think it sounds great.
I've got a GT3 master cylinder, this is a common upgrade in Porsche circles I couldn't find anyone that's fitted the matching GT3 brake servo. I wanted to give this a try, using one off a spicy Porsche that had larger brakes, similar to what I have. I was looking for one off a 997 GT3, GT3RS, Turbo or GT2, as you can imagine parts off these models don't come up second hand often and when they do they are strong money, I think Porsche want around £700 for a new one.
With a bit of digging around I found the correct part, they are made by TRW for Porsche. It was £135 brand new in the box. I love a bargain and do my best to avoid Porsche tax. I figured even if it makes no difference it's worth rolling the dice on it for that price. The yellow dust cap had come off in the box and a few bits had worked their way loose and were rattling around but it all went back together fine so no big deal.
P6251372This is the original one. The new one is a lot thicker, I did think it would be a nightmare to fit, I'd need to disconnect all the hydraulics but I managed to sneak it in with some fiddling.
P6251370P6251378The plastic cover panel won't fit over it now so I cut it up a bit. Doesn't look good but it'll do for now. The one for a GT3, Turbo, etc is different, I don't know if it's a straight swap but I'll keep an eye out for one.
P6251379Out for a test drive, the results are good, the meat of the brakes is more to the top of the pedal now, not better or worse than before in my opinion but a difference I noticed instantly. When doing an emergency stop the ABS kicks in and it actually stops the car like it should now so that's a result. Couple of pictures of the car out in the sun. It's filthy but looks clean in the photos.
P6261385P6261386I also had another go with the wheel alignment equipment, put it back on and everything was bang on except the rear toe on the drivers side, I made that adjustment and it's driving spot on now and the steering wheel is straight. I'm happy with that. Not going to take it anywhere now.
A youtube video of this update but also with a couple of random driving bits chucked in, I'm biased but I think it sounds great.
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