Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
I bought some aftermarket side scoops, hopefully these will help improve the airflow through the engine compartment. Not much of a scoop on them but the originals are completely flush with the body. I don't know which company originally designed these, I assume one of the German tuners who stopped making them years back. Mine were ebay specials from Latvia but they are available lots of places. I think it's like Chinese whispers where these are a copy of a copy of a copy and they end up fitting like crap.
I was going to return them but I managed to drop a wheel on my old side vent which was on the garage floor and I broke it so decided to go with them. Thought it best to add material rather than take away as they are quite nicely made, good thickness and had a lip on the rear for strength which I didn't want to cut away. I masked up the body and slapped on some filler to get the shape. They came out looking alright.
Painted them black as that's the colour they came in and wanted to see how they look. I may paint them body colour in the future, opinions welcome.
I was going to return them but I managed to drop a wheel on my old side vent which was on the garage floor and I broke it so decided to go with them. Thought it best to add material rather than take away as they are quite nicely made, good thickness and had a lip on the rear for strength which I didn't want to cut away. I masked up the body and slapped on some filler to get the shape. They came out looking alright.
Painted them black as that's the colour they came in and wanted to see how they look. I may paint them body colour in the future, opinions welcome.
Yes, I hope I get plenty of miles in it this year. I bought it on 98,6000. It's just coming up to 100k now. A bit of a mixed bag on the colour, maybe a satin black would be nicer than gloss?
After the last round of changes to my charge cooler system I noticed the air inlet temperatures were still raising high but not as high as before. Looking at all my old ECU logs the temp is on upwards trajectory time vs temperature and it never seemed to level off, the coolant in the charge cooler was still cold so I knew it wasn't actually heating up the water. The temp sensor was the factory one mounted upside down under the inlet manifold. I was made aware by the guy that build the ECU that I should change this sensor location, in the inlet manifold it doesn't see enough air velocity and heatsoaks. Luckily for me there is a nice location just in front of the throttle body where the boost pipes merge where I could fit a sensor (the original MAP sensor was fitted here). I needed a sensor that had the plug at 90 degrees, some ebay trawling came up with one out of a 1.8 diesel Ford Focus
I didn't have the calibration data for it so needed to use a thermometer to measure the temperature and then use my multimeter to read the ohms on the sensor. This then needed to be converted into voltage for the ECU table.
Once calibrated I fitted it (held in with a hose clamp rather than bolted down).
I took the car to work today to test it out, the ambient temperature was about 10 degrees celsius, inlet temps went up to about 30 degrees where they stabilised, that was in lots of traffic where I wasn't moving and the engine compartment would be getting hot. The drive in the morning was free flowing and the temps were staying at about 15 degrees. I think i'm all sorted now but the real test will be when it sees boost on the dyno.
This car is fighting me, I started it this morning and the drivers side window seems to have packed up, it worked at first then it stopped (luckily up). It's got a new cable on it so think the problem is electrical. It feels like there is a new problem every time I go near it. It also rained this afternoon and the carpets I spent ages drying are soaked again. Over Christmas I stripped the interior right down, completely removed the roof, removed the drip tray, removed the insulation, removed the carpet, removed the drain tube and checked it, i'm at a loss on that one.
A bit of an assessment from my drive today, now i've ironed out the last few issues. Engine swapped cars don't always work in reality as well as they do on paper, you often end up with compromises or things that are a bit crude which take the gloss off it. Things like a tablet as your gauges, gear selectors that are a bit iffy, a clutch that's heavy, etc.
I'm really lucky, it drives like a standard car, the gear change is factory, the clutch is a mix and match of parts (TTV lightweight flywheel, B7 RS4 pressure plate and clutch plate) and it still feels standard, not heavy or jumpy, no rattles from the flywheel which I know can be an issue. At low revs the engine feels and behaves like a standard engine no issues at all and it's not been tuned yet. The LSD has bedded in and isn't noticeable anymore. All the dash works via CANbus. As it is, if you jumped in it and drove it without putting your foot down you'd think it's a standard car. I'm happy about that.
There is one exception though and that's the exhaust, since changing the turbos it's gone from nice to stupidly loud. I just don't think I can live with it how it currently is, because it's a convertible the noise is more intrusive and the sound at low revs isn't even nice, it's just a loud din. I've been through a few silencers from different brands on various projects and i've come to the conclusion that aftermarket silencers are total s
t. I'm going to need to address this and should probably do so before I get it tuned. If anyone has any ideas on a car I can take a silencer from, i'm looking for suggestions. I'm either looking for a pair of compact 2.5" silencers that actually do something or a big silencer that has dual 2.5" inlets and hopefully outlets in the middle for the centre exit. I think that's the last piece of the puzzle as far as the engine swap goes.
After the last round of changes to my charge cooler system I noticed the air inlet temperatures were still raising high but not as high as before. Looking at all my old ECU logs the temp is on upwards trajectory time vs temperature and it never seemed to level off, the coolant in the charge cooler was still cold so I knew it wasn't actually heating up the water. The temp sensor was the factory one mounted upside down under the inlet manifold. I was made aware by the guy that build the ECU that I should change this sensor location, in the inlet manifold it doesn't see enough air velocity and heatsoaks. Luckily for me there is a nice location just in front of the throttle body where the boost pipes merge where I could fit a sensor (the original MAP sensor was fitted here). I needed a sensor that had the plug at 90 degrees, some ebay trawling came up with one out of a 1.8 diesel Ford Focus
I didn't have the calibration data for it so needed to use a thermometer to measure the temperature and then use my multimeter to read the ohms on the sensor. This then needed to be converted into voltage for the ECU table.
Once calibrated I fitted it (held in with a hose clamp rather than bolted down).
I took the car to work today to test it out, the ambient temperature was about 10 degrees celsius, inlet temps went up to about 30 degrees where they stabilised, that was in lots of traffic where I wasn't moving and the engine compartment would be getting hot. The drive in the morning was free flowing and the temps were staying at about 15 degrees. I think i'm all sorted now but the real test will be when it sees boost on the dyno.
This car is fighting me, I started it this morning and the drivers side window seems to have packed up, it worked at first then it stopped (luckily up). It's got a new cable on it so think the problem is electrical. It feels like there is a new problem every time I go near it. It also rained this afternoon and the carpets I spent ages drying are soaked again. Over Christmas I stripped the interior right down, completely removed the roof, removed the drip tray, removed the insulation, removed the carpet, removed the drain tube and checked it, i'm at a loss on that one.
A bit of an assessment from my drive today, now i've ironed out the last few issues. Engine swapped cars don't always work in reality as well as they do on paper, you often end up with compromises or things that are a bit crude which take the gloss off it. Things like a tablet as your gauges, gear selectors that are a bit iffy, a clutch that's heavy, etc.
I'm really lucky, it drives like a standard car, the gear change is factory, the clutch is a mix and match of parts (TTV lightweight flywheel, B7 RS4 pressure plate and clutch plate) and it still feels standard, not heavy or jumpy, no rattles from the flywheel which I know can be an issue. At low revs the engine feels and behaves like a standard engine no issues at all and it's not been tuned yet. The LSD has bedded in and isn't noticeable anymore. All the dash works via CANbus. As it is, if you jumped in it and drove it without putting your foot down you'd think it's a standard car. I'm happy about that.
There is one exception though and that's the exhaust, since changing the turbos it's gone from nice to stupidly loud. I just don't think I can live with it how it currently is, because it's a convertible the noise is more intrusive and the sound at low revs isn't even nice, it's just a loud din. I've been through a few silencers from different brands on various projects and i've come to the conclusion that aftermarket silencers are total s
t. I'm going to need to address this and should probably do so before I get it tuned. If anyone has any ideas on a car I can take a silencer from, i'm looking for suggestions. I'm either looking for a pair of compact 2.5" silencers that actually do something or a big silencer that has dual 2.5" inlets and hopefully outlets in the middle for the centre exit. I think that's the last piece of the puzzle as far as the engine swap goes. Hi Tom,
Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
Interesting that the issues you've had appear to be mainly 'Boxster' issues as opposed to 'engine swap and tune' (exhaust excluded). I'm sure these can be rectified with a bit of patience - owning any soft top at this time of year can be a bit of a drag!
I would be tempted to see this as a test bed, and keep my eye out for a Caymen or (ideally) Caymen S with a knackered engine. You would have quite a car then...
I would be tempted to see this as a test bed, and keep my eye out for a Caymen or (ideally) Caymen S with a knackered engine. You would have quite a car then...
zippyonline said:
Hi Tom,
Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
My noise isn't resonance, it's too loud all the time, even at idle but what you've said is interesting, was it documented on a forum anywhere? I'd like to read a little more about it. Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
shalmaneser said:
Interesting that the issues you've had appear to be mainly 'Boxster' issues as opposed to 'engine swap and tune' (exhaust excluded). I'm sure these can be rectified with a bit of patience - owning any soft top at this time of year can be a bit of a drag!
I would be tempted to see this as a test bed, and keep my eye out for a Caymen or (ideally) Caymen S with a knackered engine. You would have quite a car then...
You're reading my mind regarding the Cayman, that's something i'd like to do in the future. I've still got all the bits I made for the first blue Boxster, turbo, exhaust, wastegate, charge cooler, Cayman S gearbox with the Quaife in it, etc. So I want to make use of it all at some point. I would be tempted to see this as a test bed, and keep my eye out for a Caymen or (ideally) Caymen S with a knackered engine. You would have quite a car then...
Bright Halo said:
You could go to an exhaust specialist who will solve your problem. Probably cost a bit though.
I'll sort it myself rather than take it somewhere, I have thought about cutting my silencers open and re-packing them, aftermarket stuff is built to a price, I bet there is room for improvement.Escy said:
zippyonline said:
Hi Tom,
Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
My noise isn't resonance, it's too loud all the time, even at idle but what you've said is interesting, was it documented on a forum anywhere? I'd like to read a little more about it. Enjoy following your threads, but don't tend to have a lot to say, so I'm just a silent observer.
Re: exhaust din. I've got an RX-8, and a fellow owner had a toyosport exhaust which would make a bit of a din a certain revs - coz resonance. Is your horrible din coz of resonance?
What he did was to record the sound, then look at the soundwave (think he used audacity) to find out the frequency. From that he worked out the wavelength and thus made his own hermholtz resonator (adjustable by extending/shrinking a length of capped pipe) and tuned out most of the resonance.
This might not sort it all out, but it may help or just remove the worst of it.
RE: Exhaust noise - Apexi used to make after market adjustable silencing units, they might be worth a look.
On another car of mine I made a set of removeable bungs for the exhausts for day to day use - easy enough to remove when required.
Failing that - is the wall thickness of the exhaust a bit thin? I've noticed this can change the noise levels considerably.
On another car of mine I made a set of removeable bungs for the exhausts for day to day use - easy enough to remove when required.
Failing that - is the wall thickness of the exhaust a bit thin? I've noticed this can change the noise levels considerably.
I can't remember what the wall thickness is but it's not especially thin. I bought the silencers from Profusion Exhausts so I gave them a call about opening them up and adding more sound deadening material, they informed me they are fully packed and I won't be able to improve it so glad I didn't waste my time. It was suggested to me by someone on Facebook that had read the thread and I should try linking both banks together, I asked Profusion about this and they said it was a good idea and can make a difference, they saw pictures of my system and said it's best to do it where the tail pipes merge so that's what I did.
Cardboard aided design.
In metal which took a while as it turns out cardboard is easier to cut, who knew?
Holes in the exhaust.
Welded up off the car. Not pretty I know.
Fitted back on the car. The jury is out on if it's an improvement or not, only had a short drive, the volume is pretty much the same but I think it's smoothed out the sound, definately an improvement there so worth doing. Not going to have a chance to make any more modifications now before it's on the dyno. It's booked in for the 4th of February.
I fixed the window that stopped working, strangely the plug had worked lose from the motor. I sealed up the membrane properly while I was in there although I don't think it's got anything to do with my leak.
Cardboard aided design.
In metal which took a while as it turns out cardboard is easier to cut, who knew?
Holes in the exhaust.
Welded up off the car. Not pretty I know.
Fitted back on the car. The jury is out on if it's an improvement or not, only had a short drive, the volume is pretty much the same but I think it's smoothed out the sound, definately an improvement there so worth doing. Not going to have a chance to make any more modifications now before it's on the dyno. It's booked in for the 4th of February.
I fixed the window that stopped working, strangely the plug had worked lose from the motor. I sealed up the membrane properly while I was in there although I don't think it's got anything to do with my leak.
This weekend was the last one before i'm off to the dyno so I needed to take care of a few things to give me the best chance of making decent numbers and keeping it all in one piece.
I wanted to balance the turbo actuators and set the preload.
The last time I drove it I heard a piece of metal hit the underside of the car on the drivers side, I was going slowly so stopped to have a look at what it was, a piece of a coil spring. I initially thought it was from another car and just flicked up by the tyre. This weekend I jacked up the passenger side to remove the windscreen washer tank (that had leaked all the meth out again but I found the leak and fixed it) and a piece of coil spring just dropped out onto the floor so that's both sides broken, this piece in the photo has broken both ends so it's snapped before. Will need to sort this out before it can be driven properly. I might go for coilovers.
I spotted a very small coolant leak, a pipe was weeping where it was clamped down, just needed tightening slightly. I had noticed the heaters weren't staying warm when the engine was idling so knew there was some air in the system. Sucked all the air out with a vacuum bleeder.
I'll need to upgrade the brakes, I offered up a Porsche Cayenne front disc and caliper (18z). The disc is heavy as hell, wouldn't want to run something that heavy and the caliper won't go anywhere near, the original caliper is radial mount and the Cayenne caliper has lugs which foul. I'll have to look into something else.
I wanted to balance the turbo actuators and set the preload.
The last time I drove it I heard a piece of metal hit the underside of the car on the drivers side, I was going slowly so stopped to have a look at what it was, a piece of a coil spring. I initially thought it was from another car and just flicked up by the tyre. This weekend I jacked up the passenger side to remove the windscreen washer tank (that had leaked all the meth out again but I found the leak and fixed it) and a piece of coil spring just dropped out onto the floor so that's both sides broken, this piece in the photo has broken both ends so it's snapped before. Will need to sort this out before it can be driven properly. I might go for coilovers.
I spotted a very small coolant leak, a pipe was weeping where it was clamped down, just needed tightening slightly. I had noticed the heaters weren't staying warm when the engine was idling so knew there was some air in the system. Sucked all the air out with a vacuum bleeder.
I'll need to upgrade the brakes, I offered up a Porsche Cayenne front disc and caliper (18z). The disc is heavy as hell, wouldn't want to run something that heavy and the caliper won't go anywhere near, the original caliper is radial mount and the Cayenne caliper has lugs which foul. I'll have to look into something else.
The night before it was due to go on the dyno I went to go and fill it up with fuel, started the car and the ECU lost the coolant temperature sensor. Eventually traced back to a bad solder joint giving an intermittent connection. Took me a while to find it, ended up getting fuel at 1.30am. Not a great start but at least it was sorted in the end.
Dyno day!
The car fought us the whole way through. Wheel balance on the rear is bad, never noticed it on the road but it was horrible on the dyno. After a few runs it developed a misfire, cylinder 6 was down. This was traced back to a bad solder joint for the injector on my harness connector. Next issue was a large variance between the bank 1 and bank 2 lambda sensors, it was 0.1 lambda off so 10% out. Luckily i've got a spare lambda boss on each bank so we could add in his wideband in each bank, both lambda sensors were reading pretty accurately, i'd never noticed this on the road as the trims balance them out and my throttle inputs have been progressive.The issue did improve as the day went on but there was plenty of head scratching and messing around.
The air temperature sensor i'd recently fitted became intermittent, bad solder joint (can you spot a theme?). Sorted that and we left the engine cover off for the next run, by chance we noticed a puff of water out of the dump valves. I was sure the water meth wasn't active as it said disabled in the settings but that must have been an error in my comprehension of the ECU settings. So now we knew it was spraying meth (that might have explained where it's been disappearing in the past). We pulled the fuse for the pump to tune without it. All the fueling and ignition adjustments made before needed to be changed so takes us up to lunch time and we are basically back at square one. Not great but at least we noticed it.
We had to add a ton of fuelling to make up for the lack of methanol, this took loads of back to back runs and quite a bit of time, as we were adding boost it started to misfire, we had the pull the spark plugs and close the cap. That took up a load of time.
Next issue was the air inlet temperatures, they were shocking, starting at 35 degrees as soon as the boost came in the temperature was rocketing up, it got to the point where it was a waste of time carrying on. Coolant was cold, the radiator was doing it's thing, the charge coolers themselves weren't that hot to touch either, I think it basically boils down to the cores themselves being no good, a throttle blip would see the temperature raise 10 degrees instantly, they are absorbing no heat at all. The temp comes straight back down to 35 degrees within 5 seconds of a closed throttle. While holding a metal boost pipe to see if that was getting as hot as the temperatures suggested we noticed a boost leak under a hose clamp at high boost. Blind luck to find that as we couldn't hear it and we weren't looking for it. I had pressure tested the system to a higher setting before hand so don't know what's gone on there.
Peak inlet temperature was a staggering 85 degrees, the very next run and last of they day we plugged the water meth fuse back in, started at 35 degrees before the pull, this time it was 20 degrees at the redline which is brilliant and that's at 40% duty cycle.
It's been a tough slog,we finished up at 7pm. The car now is safe to use flat out but only made 280bhp which is less than the engine made in the Audi before I removed it. Now it's safe to use at least I can actually start to test things and make sure it's functioning as it should before I go back as I had my hands tied before.
I'm not sure my way forward from here, i've invested a load of time and money into the charge cooler system and it's basically useless. If I can find a suitable OEM charge cooler that actually works I might try that but I won't be buying aftermarket. The other option which I considered right at the start and wish i'd just done was the water meth injection. It's proved its value today. If I go that way I can ditch all the charge cooler set-up, i'll need to run a large tank in the boot which would be a shame and the other thing is I don't know how much i'll get through, I could regret it if it drinks it and costs me a fortune.
I think moving forward i'm going to cut my harness connector out and remove the Bosch plug from the loom and just crimp the ECU plugs for my standalone straight to the loom. It's never going to be reliable otherwise, it was developing issues as the day went on.
It's not driveable as it is with the broken springs and i've not got the appetite for it at the moment, going to park it up and crack on with other stuff.
Dyno day!
The car fought us the whole way through. Wheel balance on the rear is bad, never noticed it on the road but it was horrible on the dyno. After a few runs it developed a misfire, cylinder 6 was down. This was traced back to a bad solder joint for the injector on my harness connector. Next issue was a large variance between the bank 1 and bank 2 lambda sensors, it was 0.1 lambda off so 10% out. Luckily i've got a spare lambda boss on each bank so we could add in his wideband in each bank, both lambda sensors were reading pretty accurately, i'd never noticed this on the road as the trims balance them out and my throttle inputs have been progressive.The issue did improve as the day went on but there was plenty of head scratching and messing around.
The air temperature sensor i'd recently fitted became intermittent, bad solder joint (can you spot a theme?). Sorted that and we left the engine cover off for the next run, by chance we noticed a puff of water out of the dump valves. I was sure the water meth wasn't active as it said disabled in the settings but that must have been an error in my comprehension of the ECU settings. So now we knew it was spraying meth (that might have explained where it's been disappearing in the past). We pulled the fuse for the pump to tune without it. All the fueling and ignition adjustments made before needed to be changed so takes us up to lunch time and we are basically back at square one. Not great but at least we noticed it.
We had to add a ton of fuelling to make up for the lack of methanol, this took loads of back to back runs and quite a bit of time, as we were adding boost it started to misfire, we had the pull the spark plugs and close the cap. That took up a load of time.
Next issue was the air inlet temperatures, they were shocking, starting at 35 degrees as soon as the boost came in the temperature was rocketing up, it got to the point where it was a waste of time carrying on. Coolant was cold, the radiator was doing it's thing, the charge coolers themselves weren't that hot to touch either, I think it basically boils down to the cores themselves being no good, a throttle blip would see the temperature raise 10 degrees instantly, they are absorbing no heat at all. The temp comes straight back down to 35 degrees within 5 seconds of a closed throttle. While holding a metal boost pipe to see if that was getting as hot as the temperatures suggested we noticed a boost leak under a hose clamp at high boost. Blind luck to find that as we couldn't hear it and we weren't looking for it. I had pressure tested the system to a higher setting before hand so don't know what's gone on there.
Peak inlet temperature was a staggering 85 degrees, the very next run and last of they day we plugged the water meth fuse back in, started at 35 degrees before the pull, this time it was 20 degrees at the redline which is brilliant and that's at 40% duty cycle.
It's been a tough slog,we finished up at 7pm. The car now is safe to use flat out but only made 280bhp which is less than the engine made in the Audi before I removed it. Now it's safe to use at least I can actually start to test things and make sure it's functioning as it should before I go back as I had my hands tied before.
I'm not sure my way forward from here, i've invested a load of time and money into the charge cooler system and it's basically useless. If I can find a suitable OEM charge cooler that actually works I might try that but I won't be buying aftermarket. The other option which I considered right at the start and wish i'd just done was the water meth injection. It's proved its value today. If I go that way I can ditch all the charge cooler set-up, i'll need to run a large tank in the boot which would be a shame and the other thing is I don't know how much i'll get through, I could regret it if it drinks it and costs me a fortune.
I think moving forward i'm going to cut my harness connector out and remove the Bosch plug from the loom and just crimp the ECU plugs for my standalone straight to the loom. It's never going to be reliable otherwise, it was developing issues as the day went on.
It's not driveable as it is with the broken springs and i've not got the appetite for it at the moment, going to park it up and crack on with other stuff.
Edited by Escy on Tuesday 4th February 21:20
Edited by Escy on Tuesday 4th February 21:29
Have a look at this thread for lots of experience with mid-engined charge cooler installations, including race use. You will have to register.
https://arc.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=389772&am...
https://arc.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=389772&am...
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