Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
So the plan for stripping the engine was heads off to be replaced with the 2.4 n/a ones, sump off to replace the conrods for forged ones out of my last engine. In theory this side of it is the quick bit compared to any fabrication that's coming later (manifolds, turbos, exhausts) so I was keen to crack on with it.
When I took the cams out on bank 1 I noticed the cam adjuster wouldn't pull in tight with the removal tool. The adjuster was fully extended, the chain had been running on the cylinder head casting. I can't believe I'd not heard this, it sounded fine and I'd been listening closely after finding some plastic in the sump. This is actually good news, I'm not using the head anyway. The cam timing would have been out, this probably accounts for the fact my wideband and EGT sensors never matched up that closely and the power being a bit lower than I thought it should be.
P5100284
It's manky in the V of the engine.
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Before I could fit the 2.4 heads I needed to take the exhaust valves out of the 2.7 heads, they have the collet grooves lower down the valve stem so there is more spring pressure on them (springs are the same).
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The 2.4 head ready to fit the new valve stem seals, it's a 30 valve engine so it took me a while!
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I think my constant oil leak was coming from higher up than the sump. The crank seal was weaping bit not leaking loads, the oil pump cover it sat on might also have been leaking. The plan was replace everything in sight with new gaskets and seals.
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When I removed the thermostat housing I had a strange thing, a trickle of oil came out of one of the bolt holes. From a bit of research, there was a plastic thermostat housing that was thicker, if it was replaced with the alloy one the bolts were too long so they punch through the block casting into where a head bolt is. If that was my oil leak source, it's unlikely I'd had found it with the engine in the car. I used some PTFE tape on the bolt when I put it back in to seal it up.
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I wasn't planning on changing the oil pump chain but noticed it had been rubbing on the pickup pipe casting. When I compared it to the new chain it was about half a link longer so had stretched. Glad to find this now.
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Doing the rods. The crank and the big end bearings looked like new, considering the issues I'd found elsewhere this was a welcome relief. I have replaced the bearings.
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New oil pump chain on. The gasket for the oil pump chain cover isn't available form Audi/TPS anymore. I rang around my local motor factors and none could get one. Elring make one but it's on back order with no date available. Ajusa make a crankcase gasket set which includes it (had bought everything else in that set from TPS already), I bought it on ebay, 5 days after the order it hadn't been dispatched. Cancelled that, can't be waiting around for ages. Have gone with some silicone sealant, got some fancy stuff used by OEM's, fingers crossed that does the job. Not a roll of the dice I wanted to take really but want the car on the road ASAP so I can enjoy some of this torrential rain we've been having.
P5200317
Bottom end back together, ready for the cylinder heads.
P5220322
Heads on and doing the timing belt.
P5220326
All back together and with the 6 speed fitted. This is a big bugger compared to the 5 speed, it feels about 25kg heavier. Next up is the fun stuff, trying to get the new turbos mounted.
P5220333
Done a video that covers this update. It includes me being a clown and dropping the engine. I should probably invest in an engine stand.
When I took the cams out on bank 1 I noticed the cam adjuster wouldn't pull in tight with the removal tool. The adjuster was fully extended, the chain had been running on the cylinder head casting. I can't believe I'd not heard this, it sounded fine and I'd been listening closely after finding some plastic in the sump. This is actually good news, I'm not using the head anyway. The cam timing would have been out, this probably accounts for the fact my wideband and EGT sensors never matched up that closely and the power being a bit lower than I thought it should be.
P5100284It's manky in the V of the engine.
P5100289Before I could fit the 2.4 heads I needed to take the exhaust valves out of the 2.7 heads, they have the collet grooves lower down the valve stem so there is more spring pressure on them (springs are the same).
P5120290The 2.4 head ready to fit the new valve stem seals, it's a 30 valve engine so it took me a while!
P5160304I think my constant oil leak was coming from higher up than the sump. The crank seal was weaping bit not leaking loads, the oil pump cover it sat on might also have been leaking. The plan was replace everything in sight with new gaskets and seals.
P5170305When I removed the thermostat housing I had a strange thing, a trickle of oil came out of one of the bolt holes. From a bit of research, there was a plastic thermostat housing that was thicker, if it was replaced with the alloy one the bolts were too long so they punch through the block casting into where a head bolt is. If that was my oil leak source, it's unlikely I'd had found it with the engine in the car. I used some PTFE tape on the bolt when I put it back in to seal it up.
P5170307I wasn't planning on changing the oil pump chain but noticed it had been rubbing on the pickup pipe casting. When I compared it to the new chain it was about half a link longer so had stretched. Glad to find this now.
P5170308Doing the rods. The crank and the big end bearings looked like new, considering the issues I'd found elsewhere this was a welcome relief. I have replaced the bearings.
P5170312P5170311New oil pump chain on. The gasket for the oil pump chain cover isn't available form Audi/TPS anymore. I rang around my local motor factors and none could get one. Elring make one but it's on back order with no date available. Ajusa make a crankcase gasket set which includes it (had bought everything else in that set from TPS already), I bought it on ebay, 5 days after the order it hadn't been dispatched. Cancelled that, can't be waiting around for ages. Have gone with some silicone sealant, got some fancy stuff used by OEM's, fingers crossed that does the job. Not a roll of the dice I wanted to take really but want the car on the road ASAP so I can enjoy some of this torrential rain we've been having.
P5200317Bottom end back together, ready for the cylinder heads.
P5220322Heads on and doing the timing belt.
P5220326All back together and with the 6 speed fitted. This is a big bugger compared to the 5 speed, it feels about 25kg heavier. Next up is the fun stuff, trying to get the new turbos mounted.
P5220333Done a video that covers this update. It includes me being a clown and dropping the engine. I should probably invest in an engine stand.
I remember back over a decade (and more!) ago, Neil Purchase of TSR built a base model red B5 Passat saloon with one of these in it. About 480bhp through the front wheels 
I remember them saying they used "atmo" heads, which I took to mean as a 2.7 non-turbo, but forgot that there was no such thing, only 2.4 and 3.0 I think. Anyway, they should help her breathe!
I remember them saying they used "atmo" heads, which I took to mean as a 2.7 non-turbo, but forgot that there was no such thing, only 2.4 and 3.0 I think. Anyway, they should help her breathe!
Don1 said:
So far beyond my capabilities, but your writing style makes me think I can knock out a V10 swap into a Micra over the weekend.
Damn you
Ha ha, I'm glossing over stuff a bit as I'm trying to get it done quickly, I've also done all the work before on the last engine so it's not too taxing. Damn you
mercedeslimos said:
I remember back over a decade (and more!) ago, Neil Purchase of TSR built a base model red B5 Passat saloon with one of these in it. About 480bhp through the front wheels
I remember them saying they used "atmo" heads, which I took to mean as a 2.7 non-turbo, but forgot that there was no such thing, only 2.4 and 3.0 I think. Anyway, they should help her breathe!
480bhp through the front wheels must have been interesting! I remember them saying they used "atmo" heads, which I took to mean as a 2.7 non-turbo, but forgot that there was no such thing, only 2.4 and 3.0 I think. Anyway, they should help her breathe!
I think he'd have been referring to the 2.4 or 2.8 heads. I did look into the 3.0 heads, they have a more modern style of VVT control (both intake and exhaust cams), the factory ecu wouldn't handle them which is why people don't run them but my standalone can run them. I decided it's more trouble than it's worth, it seemed like there are some reliability issues around the camshafts also.
I was a bit slack taking photos of the stuff I've been doing. Sometimes I recorded things and forget to take a photo.
RS6 turbo on the left, RS4 turbo on the right. The RS6 compressor inlet is noticeably larger although it doesn't really show in the picture.
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I'd bought the RS6 turbos as standard ones that were rebuilt but whilst looking over them I noticed the turbine wheel didn't look standard, the edge of the blades is rounded off. I remember from years back seeing the phrase 'cut back blades' used regarding hybrid turbochargers. I don't think this is common these days but the turbos are an old design so I guess the old techniques still apply. What it basically means is the turbine will flow more gas at the expense of spool up. It's good for top end power if your pushing the turbos hard. I'm not sure it's ideal for my set-up, they'll move my power band higher up the revs which I'm happy to do. The standard RS4 turbos stop making power at about 5500rpm and the rev limit is 6700, I don't think that power delivery is perfectly suited to a sports car, want to rev it right out and still be making power ideally. You can go to about 7500 on the standard valvetrain so I should have enough headroom to make the most out of these turbos.
IMG_20210524_195235
I also noticed the compressor wheel is billet, I hadn't seen any machining marks on the wheels so had assumed they were cast and polished but on a closer inspection, I could see the machining marks on the underside of the blades being reflected. I couldn't get the compressor housings off and didn't want to risk damaging them trying so I could only measure the exducer which was standard size. I'm assuming the inducer is also standard, they are probably just a billet version of the standard wheel. I did try to call Midlands Turbos to find out the spec off their serial numbers but they weren't much help.
IMG_20210524_164611
To fit one of the actuators I needed to grind the weld off in the wastegate arm, change it's position and weld it back on. Other than that I haven't needed to mess with the turbos.
P5240350
I decided to use the these cheap stainless steel exhaust manifolds, the are significantly larger pipe work than the stock ones and at the power levels I'm hoping to be at it should make a difference, less pre-turbo back pressure. If you had a stock Audi I don't think they are useable. In this photo you can see only one bolt physically fits the turbo, on the other side a runner sits hard agaisnt a bit of the cylinder head casting. The worst bit is where they merge from 3 into 1, the single pipe protrudes into the merge a good 5mm or so, this is in the direction of flow so pretty horrible. I didn't take a photo but it's on my YouTube video. You definately get what you pay for, I wouldn't go anywhere near them unless you plan on modifying them.
P5230339
First side exhaust manifold modified and welded back up. I loosely placed a silencer to get an idea of how it's all going to be. There's a lot to consider with turbos, the actuator placement, lining up the compressor outlet to the charge cooler, how I'm going to run the lines (oil and coolant).
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2m4TRZm]P5240343
That's the other side done. I've done my best to measure it all up to make sure it'll fit back in the car. My turbos are now lower than before but spaced out to the side a bit more. It's touch and go if they'll fit, the bank 2 turbo is my concern. It's such an effort to get the engine back under the car I can't easily offer it up and see.
P5300360
RS6 turbo on the left, RS4 turbo on the right. The RS6 compressor inlet is noticeably larger although it doesn't really show in the picture.
P5240347I'd bought the RS6 turbos as standard ones that were rebuilt but whilst looking over them I noticed the turbine wheel didn't look standard, the edge of the blades is rounded off. I remember from years back seeing the phrase 'cut back blades' used regarding hybrid turbochargers. I don't think this is common these days but the turbos are an old design so I guess the old techniques still apply. What it basically means is the turbine will flow more gas at the expense of spool up. It's good for top end power if your pushing the turbos hard. I'm not sure it's ideal for my set-up, they'll move my power band higher up the revs which I'm happy to do. The standard RS4 turbos stop making power at about 5500rpm and the rev limit is 6700, I don't think that power delivery is perfectly suited to a sports car, want to rev it right out and still be making power ideally. You can go to about 7500 on the standard valvetrain so I should have enough headroom to make the most out of these turbos.
IMG_20210524_195235I also noticed the compressor wheel is billet, I hadn't seen any machining marks on the wheels so had assumed they were cast and polished but on a closer inspection, I could see the machining marks on the underside of the blades being reflected. I couldn't get the compressor housings off and didn't want to risk damaging them trying so I could only measure the exducer which was standard size. I'm assuming the inducer is also standard, they are probably just a billet version of the standard wheel. I did try to call Midlands Turbos to find out the spec off their serial numbers but they weren't much help.
IMG_20210524_164611To fit one of the actuators I needed to grind the weld off in the wastegate arm, change it's position and weld it back on. Other than that I haven't needed to mess with the turbos.
P5240350I decided to use the these cheap stainless steel exhaust manifolds, the are significantly larger pipe work than the stock ones and at the power levels I'm hoping to be at it should make a difference, less pre-turbo back pressure. If you had a stock Audi I don't think they are useable. In this photo you can see only one bolt physically fits the turbo, on the other side a runner sits hard agaisnt a bit of the cylinder head casting. The worst bit is where they merge from 3 into 1, the single pipe protrudes into the merge a good 5mm or so, this is in the direction of flow so pretty horrible. I didn't take a photo but it's on my YouTube video. You definately get what you pay for, I wouldn't go anywhere near them unless you plan on modifying them.
P5230339First side exhaust manifold modified and welded back up. I loosely placed a silencer to get an idea of how it's all going to be. There's a lot to consider with turbos, the actuator placement, lining up the compressor outlet to the charge cooler, how I'm going to run the lines (oil and coolant).
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2m4TRZm]P5240343That's the other side done. I've done my best to measure it all up to make sure it'll fit back in the car. My turbos are now lower than before but spaced out to the side a bit more. It's touch and go if they'll fit, the bank 2 turbo is my concern. It's such an effort to get the engine back under the car I can't easily offer it up and see.
P5300360Since I had the exhaust manifolds and turbos all bolted back up I didn't want to remove them again to get the engine back under the car. They are now wider so the engine won't drop as far into the pit. I've got a frame that's essentially axle stands on wheels, I used that to get the car higher at the back and skates under the front wheels for a bit more height. It cleared but only just, took a bit of paint off the cam covers.
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Engine back in the hole. Shifter cables running under the inlet manifold
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The 6 speed gearbox is much larger, it's going to mean a bit of extra work modifying bits around it as I need to mount it lower to get the engine sitting as close to level as possible (not got the height to raise the engine up any more). To set the height it would be I used the anti-roll bar as my guide, I don't want to modify that. The second photo is slightly out of focus but you can see how much lower the gearbox sits in my car. Since it's so heavy it's good to lower it a bit.
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The 5 speed always sat lower also, I had an ongoing issue with the gearbox mounts, they were aftermarkert DesignTek ones, I was initially really happy with them but some of my clearances were quite tight. A gap opened on the rubber, the gearbox ended up sitting lower and rubbed the brace under the car. I had a few goes at sorting this out, cutting the gearbox brackets, moving them up and re-welding, spacers under the mounts, modify the brace under the gearbox. It just seemed to be a constant issue, might not have just been down to these, the gearbox mount brackets weren't ideal and might have been flexing. The gap would only open up after being driven under full load so judging where things would end up was trial and error. They also got harsher after the gap opened up. I don't know why they ended up like this, maybe too much heat?
IMG_20210508_104430
I've sent them back as they are under warranty (would like to thank Matthew at Type911 for sorting it all out) and bought some RSS Tarmac ones. Fingers crossed these hold up and everything stays exactly where I want it.
P6080387
Ebay special short shifter. It feels quite nice.
P6020375
A member suggested I should weld a bead on the charge coolers to stop the potential for a boost pipe coming off. I can't do aluminium, my mate Neil with the V8 Boxster had a friend that could do it, he picked them up, got them done and dropped them back off for me while I was in work. Big thanks to them both for helping me. It was the sort of job that's back of the queue in terms of priority and might not have got done.
P6080386
I bought some billet aluminium coil pack adapters, I was running the plastic ones VW sell but they are press fit and you can't get them back out. This proved to be a problem, it was a nightmare to get 2 of the coil packs out as they were close to the expansion tank, now I can just unbolt the adaptors and it's easy.
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P6130396
P5310363P5310366P5310368Engine back in the hole. Shifter cables running under the inlet manifold
P6060377The 6 speed gearbox is much larger, it's going to mean a bit of extra work modifying bits around it as I need to mount it lower to get the engine sitting as close to level as possible (not got the height to raise the engine up any more). To set the height it would be I used the anti-roll bar as my guide, I don't want to modify that. The second photo is slightly out of focus but you can see how much lower the gearbox sits in my car. Since it's so heavy it's good to lower it a bit.
P6010373P6070383The 5 speed always sat lower also, I had an ongoing issue with the gearbox mounts, they were aftermarkert DesignTek ones, I was initially really happy with them but some of my clearances were quite tight. A gap opened on the rubber, the gearbox ended up sitting lower and rubbed the brace under the car. I had a few goes at sorting this out, cutting the gearbox brackets, moving them up and re-welding, spacers under the mounts, modify the brace under the gearbox. It just seemed to be a constant issue, might not have just been down to these, the gearbox mount brackets weren't ideal and might have been flexing. The gap would only open up after being driven under full load so judging where things would end up was trial and error. They also got harsher after the gap opened up. I don't know why they ended up like this, maybe too much heat?
IMG_20210508_104430I've sent them back as they are under warranty (would like to thank Matthew at Type911 for sorting it all out) and bought some RSS Tarmac ones. Fingers crossed these hold up and everything stays exactly where I want it.
P6080387Ebay special short shifter. It feels quite nice.
P6020375A member suggested I should weld a bead on the charge coolers to stop the potential for a boost pipe coming off. I can't do aluminium, my mate Neil with the V8 Boxster had a friend that could do it, he picked them up, got them done and dropped them back off for me while I was in work. Big thanks to them both for helping me. It was the sort of job that's back of the queue in terms of priority and might not have got done.
P6080386I bought some billet aluminium coil pack adapters, I was running the plastic ones VW sell but they are press fit and you can't get them back out. This proved to be a problem, it was a nightmare to get 2 of the coil packs out as they were close to the expansion tank, now I can just unbolt the adaptors and it's easy.
P6120392P6130396Edited by Escy on Tuesday 22 June 23:22
Thank you. The YouTube takes a bit of time to put together so I tend to favour working on the car rather than making the videos so it's quite far behind.
I really like the 19's I'd fitted a few months back, I think they are the best Porsche OEM wheel for a 987. They could have done with some better tyres and a re-furb ideally. With the cost of that in mind I'd been looking around periodically to see if I could find any other alloy wheels with good tyres. I came across a set of OZ Racing Formula HLT wheels with Yokohama AD08R tyres on ebay. They were on a 996 Turbo S. Sizes were 19x8.5 front with a 235/35 tyre and 19x11 rear with a 295/30 tyre. The front wheels and tyres were the same size as the ones currently fitted, with a slightly better offset. The new rear wheels were an inch wider and the tyres are wider, the old ones were 265/35. More rubber is going to be useful if it makes the power I'm expecting.
I'd checked the offsets and stuff online, it was going to be tight but I thought they were worth a gamble. I was a bit concerned it'd end up being like the red Boxster when I fitted the wider wheels and they never quite sat right. I'd just sell them on rather than mess about rolling arches and stuff like last time.
They were in Birmingham so I went to pick them up in my Audi Allroad, it swallows everything quite easily.
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I gave them a wash, they look like new.
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Chucked them on the car, turns out they fit perfectly, no spacers required front or rear, what a result that was. I think the fitment looks perfect. I wanted to see how they looked so rolled the car out of the garage on my winch. They feel lighter than the wheels that came off. I'm very happy with them, I think they make the car stand out, the darker colour on the wheels (OZ call it grey) works on a silver car. The thin spokes also show off the big brakes quite nicely.
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I really like the 19's I'd fitted a few months back, I think they are the best Porsche OEM wheel for a 987. They could have done with some better tyres and a re-furb ideally. With the cost of that in mind I'd been looking around periodically to see if I could find any other alloy wheels with good tyres. I came across a set of OZ Racing Formula HLT wheels with Yokohama AD08R tyres on ebay. They were on a 996 Turbo S. Sizes were 19x8.5 front with a 235/35 tyre and 19x11 rear with a 295/30 tyre. The front wheels and tyres were the same size as the ones currently fitted, with a slightly better offset. The new rear wheels were an inch wider and the tyres are wider, the old ones were 265/35. More rubber is going to be useful if it makes the power I'm expecting.
I'd checked the offsets and stuff online, it was going to be tight but I thought they were worth a gamble. I was a bit concerned it'd end up being like the red Boxster when I fitted the wider wheels and they never quite sat right. I'd just sell them on rather than mess about rolling arches and stuff like last time.
They were in Birmingham so I went to pick them up in my Audi Allroad, it swallows everything quite easily.
P6210491I gave them a wash, they look like new.
P6210493P6210494Chucked them on the car, turns out they fit perfectly, no spacers required front or rear, what a result that was. I think the fitment looks perfect. I wanted to see how they looked so rolled the car out of the garage on my winch. They feel lighter than the wheels that came off. I'm very happy with them, I think they make the car stand out, the darker colour on the wheels (OZ call it grey) works on a silver car. The thin spokes also show off the big brakes quite nicely.
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Thanks for the positive comments. I couldn't find any decent pictures of these wheels on a 987 so I wasn't sure how it'd look before I put them on.
I'm not totally convinced on the smoked rear lights myself. I really like the look of the LED lights when they are lit up and they make the car look more modern. In direct sunlight the red shows and they look really good but when it's overcast they are quite dark and smoked lights are a bit Max Power. If I was choosing I'd have bought red ones rather than smoked but these came up cheap, only £100. They are £500 new so I can't see me swapping them any time soon.
I'm not totally convinced on the smoked rear lights myself. I really like the look of the LED lights when they are lit up and they make the car look more modern. In direct sunlight the red shows and they look really good but when it's overcast they are quite dark and smoked lights are a bit Max Power. If I was choosing I'd have bought red ones rather than smoked but these came up cheap, only £100. They are £500 new so I can't see me swapping them any time soon.
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