Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 Twin Spark - Unseen-ish
Discussion
ivanhoew said:
Thoroughly enjoying this, thanks op ,, ,so ,was it full of oil when you left ,and it used a whole sump full in 200 miles ? or have i got it wonky?
You are correct, the oil when I set off was in the middle of min max and in 150 miles it ate it all... 
I darent even start it this morning - so pleased I actually stopped for a coffee and piss and spotted the momentary warning for oil pressure as I pulled in or I'd have been by the side of the road just outside Sheffield I reckon
They're parked up together now. The wife asked me which was the new one and the old one...I should have just kept schtum and just only ever had one on the drive at once
ivanhoew said:
crikey ,,, was it smoking like a barstard ?
Weirdly not? I'd had my eye on the back of the car one way and another what with driving it to the garage on the knackered shock expecting tyre smoke and burning rubber, it started and idled cleanly while I was resetting the codes and the oil is fine and no mayo in the coolant and it didn't smell like it was burning oil either.Maybe someone undesirables got under the car and drained it a Tibshelf while I was having a pasty?
It will have to remain a mystery for a while as I'm at a wedding this weekend so spannering will have to wait until next week.
I bought a 2.0 TS Selespeed a couple of years ago. Did a service on it then ragged it aound Northumberland including doing the Kielder Forest Drive/Stage. Brilliant!
It was very rusty but a great engine.
Bought a second one unseen on Fleabay for £200 with a very good body (if only you could do the same for a woman!) and made a good one out of the 2. Still have an interior in dogsh*t brown plus lights etc.
It is in my strorage unit feeling miserable. I ought to get it out and play with it, ahem!
But with having the 2 Loti / GMC van/ R/Rover / Bongo / Bentley etc......
Still it has cost me less than a grand with strut braces, nice wheels, performance ex manifold and so on. It can stay there for a while.
I think we should have a 147 self help group!!
It was very rusty but a great engine.
Bought a second one unseen on Fleabay for £200 with a very good body (if only you could do the same for a woman!) and made a good one out of the 2. Still have an interior in dogsh*t brown plus lights etc.
It is in my strorage unit feeling miserable. I ought to get it out and play with it, ahem!
But with having the 2 Loti / GMC van/ R/Rover / Bongo / Bentley etc......
Still it has cost me less than a grand with strut braces, nice wheels, performance ex manifold and so on. It can stay there for a while.
I think we should have a 147 self help group!!
I only managed a quick sniff around the cars tonight but wanted to get some data form the second one to compare with my first, on the assumption the second one still had any kind of functioning vital signs after the mayhem of running it almost dry and getting it home.
With the kids and wife sent to bed I managed half an hour of freezing diagnostics on the second Alfa tonight in the dark. Oil checked out at about halfway on the dipstick so it has definitely used a fair bit in those 50 miles but I'm going to have to leave it until I get more time to look where the oil might be vanishing but on the basis it hasn't cost me that much and I was impatient to see if I'd destroyed it, I cranked it over.
It fired up okay and idled without too much hunting for the fifteen minutes I was reading the signals and collecting info. I may just be imagining it but it does feel a bit 'wobbly', there's no major noises outside the car, but it just feels a bit out of balance now.
As I was freezing my baby makers off in the car outside, it made sense to have a crack at the non-working heated seats. I suspected a fuse and once I'd googled a diagram for the Alfa fuse box and made do with the LHD one I found (why can't they print a schematic on the inside of the flap like a normal manufacturer?) I pulled the fuse and sure enough - A simple fix and I have working seats
I stuck the heater on while I was sat in the car and it stayed on without popping the fuse so fingers crossed, they're ok and I can swap them once I've sorted out the elephant in the room..
That bloody 4.5k rev limit.
The new one doesn't seem to think it is an auto - so that's a plus if I go with ripping the ecu
The lambda readings in my first car are quite different to this, instead of a stable post cat reading, they oscillate and read almost identical pre and post cat, so it (meaning google) suggests the lambda is duff or the cat has died.
Weekend job is to swap the lambdas over to see if that fixes things, if not, I'll swap over the cat too.
I know if the lambda doesn't fix it, I should probably start thinking about the ecu but I'm putting that off as long as I can because, (a) I don't know what I'm doing - but happy to give it a go and (b) It has a very high probability of disabling both cars as they've probably done some weird s
t to make the auto ecu run in the manual.
It's a job I'll tackle over Christmas when I've got two weeks to get one of them moving again (or find a 3rd alfa on ebay if/when I cock it up)
In the meantime, I'll cheer myself up with a tot up of the haul from the 2nd Alfa that also serves as my to do list.
Spare Alfa Stock Check - the bits I wanted off it
- 4 tyres with almost no wear (albeit st ones) - £160 saved
- Heated leather seats - Technically not a saving but they make my bum happy and I flog my seats to VW T4 peeps for £100+
- A passenger headlight that isn't all misted up - £20
- Two headlamp washer jets (hen's teeth on ebay and £35 each new) £70
- A new front bumper in a different colour - a la those old Datsun cherry delivery drivers (where did they go) £40
- An ipod connector for the head unit £40 - £80
- A working boot lock/latch £20
- ECU if I use it £90
I am having a dilemma about the timing belt though - Neither car is good enough for me to be mortified if the belt snaps and as I only need to keep running until July next year, I'm loathe to shell out £400-£450 to get it and the balance belt/pump done, etc. I could just buy another 147 if it pops.
With the kids and wife sent to bed I managed half an hour of freezing diagnostics on the second Alfa tonight in the dark. Oil checked out at about halfway on the dipstick so it has definitely used a fair bit in those 50 miles but I'm going to have to leave it until I get more time to look where the oil might be vanishing but on the basis it hasn't cost me that much and I was impatient to see if I'd destroyed it, I cranked it over.
It fired up okay and idled without too much hunting for the fifteen minutes I was reading the signals and collecting info. I may just be imagining it but it does feel a bit 'wobbly', there's no major noises outside the car, but it just feels a bit out of balance now.
As I was freezing my baby makers off in the car outside, it made sense to have a crack at the non-working heated seats. I suspected a fuse and once I'd googled a diagram for the Alfa fuse box and made do with the LHD one I found (why can't they print a schematic on the inside of the flap like a normal manufacturer?) I pulled the fuse and sure enough - A simple fix and I have working seats
I stuck the heater on while I was sat in the car and it stayed on without popping the fuse so fingers crossed, they're ok and I can swap them once I've sorted out the elephant in the room..
That bloody 4.5k rev limit.
The new one doesn't seem to think it is an auto - so that's a plus if I go with ripping the ecu
The lambda readings in my first car are quite different to this, instead of a stable post cat reading, they oscillate and read almost identical pre and post cat, so it (meaning google) suggests the lambda is duff or the cat has died.
Weekend job is to swap the lambdas over to see if that fixes things, if not, I'll swap over the cat too.
I know if the lambda doesn't fix it, I should probably start thinking about the ecu but I'm putting that off as long as I can because, (a) I don't know what I'm doing - but happy to give it a go and (b) It has a very high probability of disabling both cars as they've probably done some weird s
t to make the auto ecu run in the manual.It's a job I'll tackle over Christmas when I've got two weeks to get one of them moving again (or find a 3rd alfa on ebay if/when I cock it up)
In the meantime, I'll cheer myself up with a tot up of the haul from the 2nd Alfa that also serves as my to do list.
Spare Alfa Stock Check - the bits I wanted off it
- 4 tyres with almost no wear (albeit s
t ones) - £160 saved- Heated leather seats - Technically not a saving but they make my bum happy and I flog my seats to VW T4 peeps for £100+
- A passenger headlight that isn't all misted up - £20
- Two headlamp washer jets (hen's teeth on ebay and £35 each new) £70
- A new front bumper in a different colour - a la those old Datsun cherry delivery drivers (where did they go) £40
- An ipod connector for the head unit £40 - £80
- A working boot lock/latch £20
- ECU if I use it £90
I am having a dilemma about the timing belt though - Neither car is good enough for me to be mortified if the belt snaps and as I only need to keep running until July next year, I'm loathe to shell out £400-£450 to get it and the balance belt/pump done, etc. I could just buy another 147 if it pops.
The lambda readings on car #1 do suggest a nackered cat, that said, my 1.6 has a stable post-cat reading (of about 0.4v) and the EML still comes on complaining about cat efficiency, so what do i know?
Timing belt wise, id shop around a bit, but get it done. You are now at a place where by combining both cars you can build one nice one, and you will know the technical state of it quite well. If you blow this one up, a new 147 for belt-job money could be the same story as car #2, nice on the face of it, but dead from oil starvation before it makes it home, that is my reasoning anyway.
Timing belt wise, id shop around a bit, but get it done. You are now at a place where by combining both cars you can build one nice one, and you will know the technical state of it quite well. If you blow this one up, a new 147 for belt-job money could be the same story as car #2, nice on the face of it, but dead from oil starvation before it makes it home, that is my reasoning anyway.
I don't have a twinny, but the belt change does not look too hard - certainly doesn't look as bad as the V6, which I do have experience of. Practice on the dead car first, then do the live one?
Get a cheap ebay set of camlocks and do TDC with a pencil if need be (or get a cheap dial gauge... :-)
Get a cheap ebay set of camlocks and do TDC with a pencil if need be (or get a cheap dial gauge... :-)
Hmmm, let's see - If perhaps a relay performed two functions, such as controlling the heated seats and ooh, I don't know, the headlights, which one would it make more sense to label it as in a fuse box diagram?
In tinkering with the seat yesterday, I'd pulled said relay out of my car in case it was more than a fuse in the other one to save me getting it later.
It's my own fault for not putting it back but on leaving work late tonight I got an awful sinking feeling as I turned on my lights and all she could muster were my sidelights
Thank god that for reasons I can't explain I'd actually worn my coat to work today (never normally do) so a quick fumble in my jacket pocket found the relay or I'd have been tossing a coin over mixing fog lights and full beam
for 25 miles home or getting a taxi and giving the wife yet more proof she married a halfwit.
In tinkering with the seat yesterday, I'd pulled said relay out of my car in case it was more than a fuse in the other one to save me getting it later.
It's my own fault for not putting it back but on leaving work late tonight I got an awful sinking feeling as I turned on my lights and all she could muster were my sidelights
Thank god that for reasons I can't explain I'd actually worn my coat to work today (never normally do) so a quick fumble in my jacket pocket found the relay or I'd have been tossing a coin over mixing fog lights and full beam
for 25 miles home or getting a taxi and giving the wife yet more proof she married a halfwit. Ever since I bought the car, the boot lock has been convinced it was open so I set about swapping the boot locks over from the cars to see if I can stop the incessant beeping and warnings when I set off every day.
Changing the boot lock on the 147 doesn't mean you need a new key as there is no external lock for the key on the boot. You may think this is an intelligent way to improve security and perhaps it is.
However, I can also tell you it is an excellent way to create a massive ball ache when the battery in your key is flat, which of course on a 13 year old Alfa it is.
Unlocking the boot currently involves using the key in the door, opening the door and reaching in as gracefully as possible to paw at the far side of the centre console which is where the boot release button lives.
You then have to try to stand yourself back up again by walking yourself backwards out of the car with your hands on the seat until you're upright again. Clearly, their ergonomicist was the Italian version of Mr Tickle...
Back to the lock - It was another fairly simple fix - four screws and a bunch of clips hold the cover in place, predictably I broke a few clips getting the cover off the dead one but had some survivors so pocketed them in case I broke any taking the cover off the good one.
Two 10mm bolts and two electrical plugs hold the lock in place so the unit was swiftly out.
Amazingly I didn't break any clips taking the panel off the new one and fitting is obviously a reverse of removal.
A quick power up of the car and...
OK!!!
No more beeping at start up
I thought this might cure the body computer flashing the odometer but is hasn't so there are more faults to track down yet.
Changing the boot lock on the 147 doesn't mean you need a new key as there is no external lock for the key on the boot. You may think this is an intelligent way to improve security and perhaps it is.
However, I can also tell you it is an excellent way to create a massive ball ache when the battery in your key is flat, which of course on a 13 year old Alfa it is.
Unlocking the boot currently involves using the key in the door, opening the door and reaching in as gracefully as possible to paw at the far side of the centre console which is where the boot release button lives.
You then have to try to stand yourself back up again by walking yourself backwards out of the car with your hands on the seat until you're upright again. Clearly, their ergonomicist was the Italian version of Mr Tickle...
Back to the lock - It was another fairly simple fix - four screws and a bunch of clips hold the cover in place, predictably I broke a few clips getting the cover off the dead one but had some survivors so pocketed them in case I broke any taking the cover off the good one.
Two 10mm bolts and two electrical plugs hold the lock in place so the unit was swiftly out.
Amazingly I didn't break any clips taking the panel off the new one and fitting is obviously a reverse of removal.
A quick power up of the car and...
OK!!!
No more beeping at start up
I thought this might cure the body computer flashing the odometer but is hasn't so there are more faults to track down yet.
In tinkering between the two Alfas it surprising how much has is subtly different in the two specs.
It's probably more to do with what was in the parts bin at the time of building but by way of example, the older one has jets that squirt three jets out whereas the newer one is only twins. I'll be swapping them at some point.
I also noticed the ash tray wasn't floppy like it is in mine and spotted a little spring that snaps the ashtray open or closed.
I also pocketed the 2p (every little helps) and took the assembly out in case my springs had gone. A quick fumble in the new one located the spring and I was able to reconnect it. I also nicked the rubber slip mat that mine didn't have so the centre console is now back as it (probably) left the factory.
All very dull and pointless but a fix is a fix
I had a go at pulling out the stereo to see how the MP3 adapter was connected. As per my old Saab thread, you don't need a special tool for this as long as you have some galvanised ground staples lying around the garage...
Unfortunately, it turned out the Dension adapter is just a hard wired fm modulator and doesn't plug into the blue plug as I'd hoped.
I don't like cutting into the loom unless I have to so I'll probably wang it in the WEEE bin when I'm next at the tip.
It's probably more to do with what was in the parts bin at the time of building but by way of example, the older one has jets that squirt three jets out whereas the newer one is only twins. I'll be swapping them at some point.
I also noticed the ash tray wasn't floppy like it is in mine and spotted a little spring that snaps the ashtray open or closed.
I also pocketed the 2p (every little helps) and took the assembly out in case my springs had gone. A quick fumble in the new one located the spring and I was able to reconnect it. I also nicked the rubber slip mat that mine didn't have so the centre console is now back as it (probably) left the factory.
All very dull and pointless but a fix is a fix
I had a go at pulling out the stereo to see how the MP3 adapter was connected. As per my old Saab thread, you don't need a special tool for this as long as you have some galvanised ground staples lying around the garage...
Unfortunately, it turned out the Dension adapter is just a hard wired fm modulator and doesn't plug into the blue plug as I'd hoped.
I don't like cutting into the loom unless I have to so I'll probably wang it in the WEEE bin when I'm next at the tip.
Feeling quite happy with all the graft, I gave the inside a quick spruce up and lifting the passenger mat, I found this...
I vaguely remember leaving the window slightly open a few days ago so it may be condensation. The carpet was pretty dry too, it felt like a layer of trapped moisture but worth poking about for I'd say.
Fortunately it was dry outside a quick poke about underneath was in order but nothing untoward there. Apart from a little bit of rust, underneath looks in fairly good nick and no obvious sign of holes from the bottom to the footwell.
Poking around the forums suggestions range from air con drains (unlikely as I never have it turned on) to windscreen/bulk head and door seals.
I've moved the mat for now and will keep a beady eye on it, maybe something, may be nothing
This thing gives me more jobs to do than the wife...
I vaguely remember leaving the window slightly open a few days ago so it may be condensation. The carpet was pretty dry too, it felt like a layer of trapped moisture but worth poking about for I'd say.
Fortunately it was dry outside a quick poke about underneath was in order but nothing untoward there. Apart from a little bit of rust, underneath looks in fairly good nick and no obvious sign of holes from the bottom to the footwell.
Poking around the forums suggestions range from air con drains (unlikely as I never have it turned on) to windscreen/bulk head and door seals.
I've moved the mat for now and will keep a beady eye on it, maybe something, may be nothing
This thing gives me more jobs to do than the wife...
re: wet floors
The bulkhead scuttle has a drain in the centre which clogs up. When it rains the scuttle fills up with water and eventually exits via the heater into the cabin. From memory you need to take the plastic tray off around the base of the wipers and you will see what I am on about. In the centre is a rubber bung and that's the drain. It bungs up with dirt/leaves/cobwebs. It's an easy job to do.
Air con - if you don't use it, the seals dry out and then when you need it, there will be no gas left. Better to leave it on I think. Also helps with demisting.
The bulkhead scuttle has a drain in the centre which clogs up. When it rains the scuttle fills up with water and eventually exits via the heater into the cabin. From memory you need to take the plastic tray off around the base of the wipers and you will see what I am on about. In the centre is a rubber bung and that's the drain. It bungs up with dirt/leaves/cobwebs. It's an easy job to do.
Air con - if you don't use it, the seals dry out and then when you need it, there will be no gas left. Better to leave it on I think. Also helps with demisting.
stewjohnst said:
Unfortunately, it turned out the Dension adapter is just a hard wired fm modulator and doesn't plug into the blue plug as I'd hoped.
Don't be disappointed the genuine Alfa iPod adaptor is as flaky as hell I think the Denison ones are much better.Good effort so far BTW.
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