Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 Twin Spark - Unseen-ish
Discussion
Ah the joys of an Alfa! I had a 6 month stint in a 1.9 Jtd Alfa Romeo GT a few years ago - does your clutch pedal squeak?
Mine had a variety of fun issues that were meant to be part of the experience - various alarms for doors open/lights blown, suspension components, a dead slave cylinder, a dead injector...I could go on.
Yours seems like a better bet, from what I gathered the twinsparks were good reliable lumps despite the issues you're having. I think the 2.0 JTS ones were the ones to completely avoid.
Mine had a variety of fun issues that were meant to be part of the experience - various alarms for doors open/lights blown, suspension components, a dead slave cylinder, a dead injector...I could go on.
Yours seems like a better bet, from what I gathered the twinsparks were good reliable lumps despite the issues you're having. I think the 2.0 JTS ones were the ones to completely avoid.
Had the odb reader on the car back at the garage and got a U1711 code.
Good old Alfa, "let's put the car in limp mode bit not put the EML light on for this code...".
Not taking it up with the garage as I've bough in the arse end of the market and without trying to rev it past 4,500 and no EML you wouldn't really know anything is wrong with it so I can't really pin it on the dealer selling me a pup.
We (dealer and I) did a spot of googling on the code he'd pulled up and suggests it may be a sensor, or running rich/burning oil or a dead cat. If I get chance this weekend, I might buy a tin of carb/brake cleaner and hose down the lambda sensor and throttle body to see if that helps. I'm not about to faff with the cat, it drives perfectly fine under 4.5k so I don't really care.
In other news, I found a Nikon camera battery that eBay informs me is worth about £3 so I'll eBay it for a laugh (in shedding, every penny counts).
Also turns out the Alfa has a G-meter for left hand turns. All you need to do is have the brake fluid reservoir sat nicely between min and max and then every left hander you take, you get a brake fluid low warning if you attempt the turn too quickly...
The gearbox is something of a clowns pocket too, there's more movement side to side in gear than it would take to cover the whole gate in the Saab but I've not missed a gear yet
Despite all this, it is an amusing little car to pootle about in and I am having a ball
As it stands, if the car blows up tomorrow it's cost £4.49 a mile so far including purchase...I'll keep this stat randomly updated.
Good old Alfa, "let's put the car in limp mode bit not put the EML light on for this code...".
Not taking it up with the garage as I've bough in the arse end of the market and without trying to rev it past 4,500 and no EML you wouldn't really know anything is wrong with it so I can't really pin it on the dealer selling me a pup.
We (dealer and I) did a spot of googling on the code he'd pulled up and suggests it may be a sensor, or running rich/burning oil or a dead cat. If I get chance this weekend, I might buy a tin of carb/brake cleaner and hose down the lambda sensor and throttle body to see if that helps. I'm not about to faff with the cat, it drives perfectly fine under 4.5k so I don't really care.
In other news, I found a Nikon camera battery that eBay informs me is worth about £3 so I'll eBay it for a laugh (in shedding, every penny counts).
Also turns out the Alfa has a G-meter for left hand turns. All you need to do is have the brake fluid reservoir sat nicely between min and max and then every left hander you take, you get a brake fluid low warning if you attempt the turn too quickly...
The gearbox is something of a clowns pocket too, there's more movement side to side in gear than it would take to cover the whole gate in the Saab but I've not missed a gear yet
Despite all this, it is an amusing little car to pootle about in and I am having a ball
As it stands, if the car blows up tomorrow it's cost £4.49 a mile so far including purchase...I'll keep this stat randomly updated.
Edited by stewjohnst on Friday 6th October 12:32
Edited by stewjohnst on Friday 6th October 12:39
Didn't get any time to investigate the engine fault on the car this weekend, mainly due to a huge pile of wood I had to get chopped and stored to give me a clear space to work on the car.
I did have a quick 30 second check this morning and pulled the MAF lead off. It made no difference to the revving so suspicion falls on the lambda sensors again. It was worth a try as the MAF didn't require crawling under the car with a spanner. However, I now have a full blown engine management light on the dash since unplugging (and putting back in) the MAF cable. It is driving no worse than before and fuel economy crept up a whopping 0.3 mpg this morning to 28.3 so it's clearly not terminal.
Aside from the minor inconvenience of having an engine with only 50% of it's rev range available it is an enjoyable place to be. It feels a generation apart from the 9-3 in terms of design and interior finish. The seats in the Saab were more supportive but other than that, the Alfa is a nicer place to be. Flicking the indicator stalk in the Saab made a noise like a mortician cracking open a cadaver's rib cage, it is a silent and softly damped joy in the Alfa.
The cabin is also much more insulated from road and engine noise, the obvious caveat being that I spent most of my time in the Saab mucking about on boost and trying to coerce it into going in a straight line whereas I'm driving the Alfa as if Miss Daisy was in the back until I fix the rev problem.
I know I'm supposed to be treating this one like a shed but I'm sensing the danger signs already and starting to make a small list of the things that need doing. The critical thing for Shed vs Bangernomics will be solving the engine revs, I'll probably give it three strikes and a few bob to try and fix it. If that doens't work, I'll just drive around it until/if it dies.
Assuming I fix the revs, the cambelt/balance belt is coming up to 3 years old so I'll stomach the £300 for that being done (I don't have time to do it myself so don't even suggest it) and keep it running.
So, things to do in some sort of order
- Sort the U1711 Code / engine revs
- Cambelt / Timing
- Two new rear tyres (Why can't I ever buy a car with decent tread left all round?)
- Token poke about for the knocking under the car
- Get a new bumper or spray/tidy the raggy existing one
- Sort out the Boot Sensor
- Get the cruise working (Probably disabled due to the engine issue - I don't use it but I know it isn't working and that bugs me)
I did have a quick 30 second check this morning and pulled the MAF lead off. It made no difference to the revving so suspicion falls on the lambda sensors again. It was worth a try as the MAF didn't require crawling under the car with a spanner. However, I now have a full blown engine management light on the dash since unplugging (and putting back in) the MAF cable. It is driving no worse than before and fuel economy crept up a whopping 0.3 mpg this morning to 28.3 so it's clearly not terminal.
Aside from the minor inconvenience of having an engine with only 50% of it's rev range available it is an enjoyable place to be. It feels a generation apart from the 9-3 in terms of design and interior finish. The seats in the Saab were more supportive but other than that, the Alfa is a nicer place to be. Flicking the indicator stalk in the Saab made a noise like a mortician cracking open a cadaver's rib cage, it is a silent and softly damped joy in the Alfa.
The cabin is also much more insulated from road and engine noise, the obvious caveat being that I spent most of my time in the Saab mucking about on boost and trying to coerce it into going in a straight line whereas I'm driving the Alfa as if Miss Daisy was in the back until I fix the rev problem.
I know I'm supposed to be treating this one like a shed but I'm sensing the danger signs already and starting to make a small list of the things that need doing. The critical thing for Shed vs Bangernomics will be solving the engine revs, I'll probably give it three strikes and a few bob to try and fix it. If that doens't work, I'll just drive around it until/if it dies.
Assuming I fix the revs, the cambelt/balance belt is coming up to 3 years old so I'll stomach the £300 for that being done (I don't have time to do it myself so don't even suggest it) and keep it running.
So, things to do in some sort of order
- Sort the U1711 Code / engine revs
- Cambelt / Timing
- Two new rear tyres (Why can't I ever buy a car with decent tread left all round?)
- Token poke about for the knocking under the car
- Get a new bumper or spray/tidy the raggy existing one
- Sort out the Boot Sensor
- Get the cruise working (Probably disabled due to the engine issue - I don't use it but I know it isn't working and that bugs me)
Edited by stewjohnst on Monday 9th October 13:57
Hi when I had my 156 V6, the car had the same symptoms re the revs (wouldn't pull above 5k) a new MAF fixed it, I was concerned too about the Lambda sensors but was told the car runs open loop (Lambdas not used) when over 3/4 throttle, ruling them out. I don't wanna cause you extra expense if this isn't the case on the 147 twinny, but it may be worth looking into.
Ps is the current MAF a genuine AR part? 7 years ago when I was on the AR forums, the EBay ones were concidered junk.
Ps is the current MAF a genuine AR part? 7 years ago when I was on the AR forums, the EBay ones were concidered junk.
Edited by exgtt on Monday 9th October 15:57
It would appear the Alfa is able to read my mind in a manner not dissimilar to my wife. More to the point, it appears to know when I am about to spend money on it but decide against it and punishes me accordingly.
I was hovering over buy it now on a version of EcuScan and the associated ODB cables last night so I could work my way through the body computer and any other fault codes. I decided at the last minute to wait, since the rear tyres being at 1.8mm probably ought to come first.
The 147 must have got whiff of this near purchase wobble and as soon as I turned out of the drive this morning it spat up an ASR failure warning to add to the list...oh, if only I'd bought the scanner.
I have though spent my first bit of repair money on the shed, a whopping £5.95 for a pair of new clips because one side of the passenger dashboard airbag cover had come loose. The other clip was fine but I had to break it off to get in to replace the other.
The original airbag and bits and pieces are all fine in there and it would have been a simple job well done, except that disaster befalls anything I try do. I contrived to flick the old broken clip up onto the dash and ended up watching in slow motion, like a child watching their sweetie money drop through a grate, as the clip rolled along the dash and down into the windscreen vent so now I have another rattle to contend with on my commute.
I've also parted with £7 for some carb cleaner to clean out the throttle body and MAF before I start taking any more expensive bits off.
Based on past performance, expect the next update to include a burnt out shell or a photo of me sans eyebrows due to the Alfa randomly igniting the carb cleaner or something
On the plus side, mpg is up to 30.0 mpg over in the 500 miles I've done in it now.
I was hovering over buy it now on a version of EcuScan and the associated ODB cables last night so I could work my way through the body computer and any other fault codes. I decided at the last minute to wait, since the rear tyres being at 1.8mm probably ought to come first.
The 147 must have got whiff of this near purchase wobble and as soon as I turned out of the drive this morning it spat up an ASR failure warning to add to the list...oh, if only I'd bought the scanner.
I have though spent my first bit of repair money on the shed, a whopping £5.95 for a pair of new clips because one side of the passenger dashboard airbag cover had come loose. The other clip was fine but I had to break it off to get in to replace the other.
The original airbag and bits and pieces are all fine in there and it would have been a simple job well done, except that disaster befalls anything I try do. I contrived to flick the old broken clip up onto the dash and ended up watching in slow motion, like a child watching their sweetie money drop through a grate, as the clip rolled along the dash and down into the windscreen vent so now I have another rattle to contend with on my commute.
I've also parted with £7 for some carb cleaner to clean out the throttle body and MAF before I start taking any more expensive bits off.
Based on past performance, expect the next update to include a burnt out shell or a photo of me sans eyebrows due to the Alfa randomly igniting the carb cleaner or something
On the plus side, mpg is up to 30.0 mpg over in the 500 miles I've done in it now.
Unplugging the MAF and it making no difference is a standard test for a b0rked MAF - your MAF is either toast or needs a clean. Unplugging the MAF should make a huge difference to the engine, literally night and day. You might be in for a bit of a surprise when you fix this....
If the MAF doesn't respond to cleaning, you can get the bosch inserts for a lot less than the official part. See threads on Alfa Owner. I think the 2.0 insert is shared with a couple of vauxhalls so is pretty cheap. Don't get anything other than Bosch. They don't work.
Multi ECU scan is certainly worth it. Depends on the model, but most of the time the free version will do all the engine stuff and paid for version opens up the ABS ECUs etc. Its probably the best value tool out there for anyone maintaining alfas.
If the MAF doesn't respond to cleaning, you can get the bosch inserts for a lot less than the official part. See threads on Alfa Owner. I think the 2.0 insert is shared with a couple of vauxhalls so is pretty cheap. Don't get anything other than Bosch. They don't work.
Multi ECU scan is certainly worth it. Depends on the model, but most of the time the free version will do all the engine stuff and paid for version opens up the ABS ECUs etc. Its probably the best value tool out there for anyone maintaining alfas.
stewjohnst said:
I've also parted with £7 for some carb cleaner to clean out the throttle body and MAF before I start taking any more expensive bits off.
You're no good at this shedding stuff...£7 for a tin of carb cleaner?! A true Shed owner would be down tool station handing over £2.70 (assuming you have one locally, if not, ignore me)
Excellent thread though, miss my old 156 Tspark
Bluehawk said:
You're no good at this shedding stuff...£7 for a tin of carb cleaner?!
A true Shed owner would be down tool station handing over £2.70 (assuming you have one locally, if not, ignore me)
I hadn't thought of them, I've spent four years in and out of my local Toolstation renovating my house...A true Shed owner would be down tool station handing over £2.70 (assuming you have one locally, if not, ignore me)
Unexpected bonus time
You shamed me into processing a refund for my carb cleaner from Amazon so I could get the cheapo stuff from Toolstation and Amazon have refunded the money and told me to just keep the carb cleaner anyway.
You can't get better shedding than free stuff.
Would be nice to get five minutes to clean the thing now and save me some notes on buying a new maf.
All in so far, I'm at 507 miles and an average cost including net fuel costs (expenses covers work travel) of £1.72 a mile.
That will obviously take a beating when the timing belts, bobbins and tyres get done in December - or do i just ride it past 3 years on the belts and pretend it will be ok?
Edited by stewjohnst on Thursday 19th October 13:07
ASR warnings are often a sign of a poor battery voltage. They need a tip top battery voltage reading to satisfy the computer. Sometimes a quick rev of the engine on a cold morning will turn the errors off as the volts creep back up from a cold start.
Boot lid - fold down the rear seats so you can see into the boot and make sure the boot light is going out when the boot is closed.
Squeaky clutch pedal and front suspension knocks are standard.
Cambelt - ideally you want to do the waterpump, tensioners and balance belt at the same time. I appreciate it's going against the grain of bangernomics, but it's usually the waterpump or tensioners which fail and then cause the belt to snap. The belt in its own right is not the weak point.
See if there is an Alfa specialist near you. They will have all the gear to read codes etc.
Boot lid - fold down the rear seats so you can see into the boot and make sure the boot light is going out when the boot is closed.
Squeaky clutch pedal and front suspension knocks are standard.
Cambelt - ideally you want to do the waterpump, tensioners and balance belt at the same time. I appreciate it's going against the grain of bangernomics, but it's usually the waterpump or tensioners which fail and then cause the belt to snap. The belt in its own right is not the weak point.
See if there is an Alfa specialist near you. They will have all the gear to read codes etc.
RicksAlfas said:
ASR warnings are often a sign of a poor battery voltage. They need a tip top battery voltage reading to satisfy the computer. Sometimes a quick rev of the engine on a cold morning will turn the errors off as the volts creep back up from a cold start.
Boot lid - fold down the rear seats so you can see into the boot and make sure the boot light is going out when the boot is closed.
Squeaky clutch pedal and front suspension knocks are standard.
Cambelt - ideally you want to do the waterpump, tensioners and balance belt at the same time. I appreciate it's going against the grain of bangernomics, but it's usually the waterpump or tensioners which fail and then cause the belt to snap. The belt in its own right is not the weak point.
See if there is an Alfa specialist near you. They will have all the gear to read codes etc.
Thanks for all that, it was a colder morning when the ASR came on, so probably voltage as it's gone again now Boot lid - fold down the rear seats so you can see into the boot and make sure the boot light is going out when the boot is closed.
Squeaky clutch pedal and front suspension knocks are standard.
Cambelt - ideally you want to do the waterpump, tensioners and balance belt at the same time. I appreciate it's going against the grain of bangernomics, but it's usually the waterpump or tensioners which fail and then cause the belt to snap. The belt in its own right is not the weak point.
See if there is an Alfa specialist near you. They will have all the gear to read codes etc.
I need the car to last until July so I can't see a way around coughing up for the all the belts and pump, etc. I know it's going to set me back a fair few hundred but it will be good for another few years once done so it's better than being stranded by the side of the road in a few months time and having to wheel it off for scrap.
Great thread, OP. Nice writing style and kudos for the noble endeavour of shedding in an Alfa.
I don't have anything to add in terms of trouble-shooting advice but do wish you good luck. I've just scrapped a Civic due to a failed MOT (new sills, suspension work and other stuff required) but am avoiding buying another car for a while and trying to survive with just one. When a need to buy something I planning to look at 156s.
I don't have anything to add in terms of trouble-shooting advice but do wish you good luck. I've just scrapped a Civic due to a failed MOT (new sills, suspension work and other stuff required) but am avoiding buying another car for a while and trying to survive with just one. When a need to buy something I planning to look at 156s.
Nothing beats being woken up on a Saturday morning by the dog going apes
t at the postman...
...not that I mind as he's delivered this to me today in exchange for about £15 via Amazon.
The missus is out on the tiles tonight so there's every chance of me getting intimate with the Alfa tonight.
To be continued
t at the postman......not that I mind as he's delivered this to me today in exchange for about £15 via Amazon.
The missus is out on the tiles tonight so there's every chance of me getting intimate with the Alfa tonight.
To be continued
Finally managed to get outside for a minute as one of the kids is snotted up and making wheezing sounds like a racehorse with a punctured lung so I kind of felt bad not letting her stay up for a little bit.
I left her alone for two minutes in front of my touchscreen laptop to get the calpol (she's two and a bit) and she'd managed to add 3 Autodelta supercharger kits for the Alfa to my shopping basket for a princely £15k, good lass!
Anyway - On to the codes...
There were some codes on there for the Lambda and the MAF but they're not current and are almost certainly from when I was unplugging bits and bobs to see if anything made a blind bit of difference so I cleared them off.
The one that is still there is the U1711 showing an issue between the ECU and the automatic transmission control unit.
This is slightly odd as the car is a manual...
Further checking discovered the ecu thinks the car is an auto and in third gear?
The mileage on the ecu is also way off, at 210,000km and at this prompted me to get out in the pissing rain and hurriedly check all the vin numbers on the slam panel and wing (of course I did that when I bought it *cough*).
It all matches on the panel, V5 and the suspension top mount so I'm left suspecting it has borked an ecu at some point and an auto ecu has been put in?
I still haven't cleaned the maf as it was raining and pitch black outside so maybe I'll get to that tomorrow as long as the wife isn't too hung over to watch over the two year old pretending to be Shergar on his deathbed upstairs.
I left her alone for two minutes in front of my touchscreen laptop to get the calpol (she's two and a bit) and she'd managed to add 3 Autodelta supercharger kits for the Alfa to my shopping basket for a princely £15k, good lass!
Anyway - On to the codes...
There were some codes on there for the Lambda and the MAF but they're not current and are almost certainly from when I was unplugging bits and bobs to see if anything made a blind bit of difference so I cleared them off.
The one that is still there is the U1711 showing an issue between the ECU and the automatic transmission control unit.
This is slightly odd as the car is a manual...
Further checking discovered the ecu thinks the car is an auto and in third gear?
The mileage on the ecu is also way off, at 210,000km and at this prompted me to get out in the pissing rain and hurriedly check all the vin numbers on the slam panel and wing (of course I did that when I bought it *cough*).
It all matches on the panel, V5 and the suspension top mount so I'm left suspecting it has borked an ecu at some point and an auto ecu has been put in?
I still haven't cleaned the maf as it was raining and pitch black outside so maybe I'll get to that tomorrow as long as the wife isn't too hung over to watch over the two year old pretending to be Shergar on his deathbed upstairs.
Seems I was in a bit too much of a hurry in the rain last night, the wife pointed out a small mistake I made in my rush to get out of the rain.
Fortunately, the unbeatable combination of being old, an Alfa and being worth peanuts has provided the kind of anti theft protection Golf R and Audi RS3 owners can only dream.
In other words, it is still on the drive despite spending the night with the key in the door like this...
Fortunately, the unbeatable combination of being old, an Alfa and being worth peanuts has provided the kind of anti theft protection Golf R and Audi RS3 owners can only dream.
In other words, it is still on the drive despite spending the night with the key in the door like this...
stewjohnst said:
Seems I was in a bit too much of a hurry in the rain last night, the wife pointed out a small mistake I made in my rush to get out of the rain.
Fortunately, the unbeatable combination of being old, an Alfa and being worth peanuts has provided the kind of anti theft protection Golf R and Audi RS3 owners can only dream.
In other words, it is still on the drive despite spending the night with the key in the door like this...
Parked on its side like that i guess no one saw the key Fortunately, the unbeatable combination of being old, an Alfa and being worth peanuts has provided the kind of anti theft protection Golf R and Audi RS3 owners can only dream.
In other words, it is still on the drive despite spending the night with the key in the door like this...
(sorry had to)Great thread op ,ive had my 156 v6 for approx 8 years and from the start ive kept it going in true shedding style with the bare minimum done to keep it reliable,it now needs a suspension refresh but its hanging in on ok for now and as its not my daily i can drown out the occasional knocks by turning up the radio..ive always serviced it myself except timing belt/waterpump and its been the most reliable car ive own to date (possibly going to regret that statement)..but its going next summer to make way for something big,fast and possibly less relaible..
Enjoy it and keep us informed..
I finally got some time last week to put the carb cleaner to use on the maf, nice sunny day and the arse end of storm Ophelia or whatever meant the maf dried out pretty quickly after a spray over with cleaner.
Alas, the maf was still borked so I shelled out on a new Bosch unit for the not too horrific price of £66 and it should be here tomorrow.
With half a can of free carb cleaner in my hand (and a rag in the other to stop overspray everywhere) I figured I'd clean off the engine bits and bobs and fluid bottles, etc.
Scrubs up well
Apart from the fun to be had spraying carb cleaner all over the non perishable bits of an engine bay (is there anything it doesn't shift?) there is method in the madness of cleaning the shed's engine bay up a bit.
I've topped off the brake fluid as the left turn induced fluid alarm was getting tiresome and checked over all the other fluids so having everything clean for a bit will let me see if anything is leaking out anywhere.
I bought a litre of dot 4 as the brakes are pretty spongy so although I've topped up for now a proper change of fluid wont hurt.
Not much else to note, the coolant pipe is crusty but that looks like old crust and as long as I don't touch it, it probably won't fall to bits...
Im coming up to a 1,000 miles in it now and I'm interested to see what it will be like when it's running properly
Alas, the maf was still borked so I shelled out on a new Bosch unit for the not too horrific price of £66 and it should be here tomorrow.
With half a can of free carb cleaner in my hand (and a rag in the other to stop overspray everywhere) I figured I'd clean off the engine bits and bobs and fluid bottles, etc.
Scrubs up well
Apart from the fun to be had spraying carb cleaner all over the non perishable bits of an engine bay (is there anything it doesn't shift?) there is method in the madness of cleaning the shed's engine bay up a bit.
I've topped off the brake fluid as the left turn induced fluid alarm was getting tiresome and checked over all the other fluids so having everything clean for a bit will let me see if anything is leaking out anywhere.
I bought a litre of dot 4 as the brakes are pretty spongy so although I've topped up for now a proper change of fluid wont hurt.
Not much else to note, the coolant pipe is crusty but that looks like old crust and as long as I don't touch it, it probably won't fall to bits...
Im coming up to a 1,000 miles in it now and I'm interested to see what it will be like when it's running properly
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