Toyota MR2 Roadster 2ZZ-GE Engine Swap
Discussion
I'm not a fanboi to any particular manufacturer, i've had lots of interesting cars over the years but I seem to get drawn towards Toyota's more than I do to the others (although i've had quite a few BMW's and Alfa Romeo's also)
Highlights from my previous Toyota are...
Altezza 3SGE Beams. Jap import version of the IS200 but with a 200bhp naturally aspirated 4 pot.
Starlet GT Turbo. Handled like crap but was good fun.
Corolla Levin AE101. Had a silvertop 4AGE 20v engine with individual throttle bodies as standard.
Corolla Levin BZ-R AE111. Had the blacktop version of the 20v engine. This was one of my favourite cars i've owned.
Corolla Levin AE86. Mine had a CA18DET engine from a S13 200SX, it was 270bhp which was plenty fast.
As you can probably tell from these cars, I grew up in the Max Power era and while I like to think they are tasteful, non car people think i'm a chav. The Mk3 MR2 was something that was never on my radar during my 20's. They looked a bit limp, they have a bit of an image problem, especially compared to the Mk2. The engine was a disappointment also (in terms of power and reliability). A housemate had one when they were new and I drove it and thought it was crap.
A few years back my brother was looking at one for sale with a 2ZZ engine fitted. This got me thinking, I like an engine swap. So I built one. I used the engine from that Corolla T-Sport in it. I liked the green but I got a lot of stick for it, guess it's a bit marmite. I loved the result, an MR2 with a 2ZZ ticks a lot of boxes in my opinion. They are lightweight, come in at around 1000kg, 170-190bhp (depending on the exhaust used), come with an LSD as standard, rev to 8200rpm, RWD, fantastic handling, cheap to build/buy, Toyota reliability. Being lightweight they are cheap on fuel. I think they should be the default choice for a low budget track car. The rear 1/4 panels are bolt on which could be useful on a track car. I consider it 80% of a Lotus Elise for 20% of the money.
I sold it a few years back and had a few cars since. I ended up in another MR2, this was an 06 plate and had about 50k on it, I bought it from a salvage auction, I didn't intend to keep it that long but I started the Boxster engine swap soon after and it became my daily driver. I've had it over 2 years, it's needed nothing in that time. The original engine is a disappointment after owning a 2ZZ car but it's still a great steer. I found it hard to find a photo, I don't care for it much, think i've washed it 3 times in 2 years.
While browsing the classifieds I noticed a Celica 190 locally at a price too cheap to pass up on. I decided i'll do myself another MR2 2ZZ (i'll probably have to sell it in Spring to fund the Boxster engine swap). I didn't want to use my black car as it's a Cat D and has a rip in the roof (i'm too tight to replace it!) so I bought another MR2 and i'll sell my black one to cover the cost of doing the swap.
The Celica is ropey but it's got some decent parts like coilovers. I'll break it, be quids in and have the engine to go in the MR2. It has only done 78k miles. From what I can tell, the lad who owned it was Polish, he looked after it, went back to Poland and sold it to his mate on the cheap who ragged it around (probably on his mates tax and insurance) and then wanted rid of it once the MOT was due.
I picked up an MR2 a week later. It's not to my taste really but the price was right. I wanted one with a hardtop for the winter and they cost £500 on their own so I focused on finding a car with a hardtop. It's got a TTE style bar which looks like a roll over hoop but would actually cave your head in if you did roll over, i'll sell that along with the alloys and the backbox. The photo of the rear was one I took to show by brother the state of the rear bumper which is why it's a poor photo but it's the only one i've got and I took it straight to a body shop after buying it to get it painted (mainly to get it out of the way, i've now got too many cars). I can get paint work done for £50 a panel which is handy.
The guy I bought it off was moving from a house to a caravan, he gave me the original set of wheels for it, he also randomly gave me 3 brand new alloys the same as what's on the car. This is a head scratcher for me, why 3 and they are 5 stud rather than 4 stud like the MR2, it makes no sense but being a bit of a Dell Boy I had them anyway. If someone has a single matching alloy (Asuka Racing KE10 17x7 et42 5x100 / 5x108) or has a Robin Reliant and wants 3, let me know!
Highlights from my previous Toyota are...
Altezza 3SGE Beams. Jap import version of the IS200 but with a 200bhp naturally aspirated 4 pot.
Starlet GT Turbo. Handled like crap but was good fun.
Corolla Levin AE101. Had a silvertop 4AGE 20v engine with individual throttle bodies as standard.
Corolla Levin BZ-R AE111. Had the blacktop version of the 20v engine. This was one of my favourite cars i've owned.
Corolla Levin AE86. Mine had a CA18DET engine from a S13 200SX, it was 270bhp which was plenty fast.
As you can probably tell from these cars, I grew up in the Max Power era and while I like to think they are tasteful, non car people think i'm a chav. The Mk3 MR2 was something that was never on my radar during my 20's. They looked a bit limp, they have a bit of an image problem, especially compared to the Mk2. The engine was a disappointment also (in terms of power and reliability). A housemate had one when they were new and I drove it and thought it was crap.
A few years back my brother was looking at one for sale with a 2ZZ engine fitted. This got me thinking, I like an engine swap. So I built one. I used the engine from that Corolla T-Sport in it. I liked the green but I got a lot of stick for it, guess it's a bit marmite. I loved the result, an MR2 with a 2ZZ ticks a lot of boxes in my opinion. They are lightweight, come in at around 1000kg, 170-190bhp (depending on the exhaust used), come with an LSD as standard, rev to 8200rpm, RWD, fantastic handling, cheap to build/buy, Toyota reliability. Being lightweight they are cheap on fuel. I think they should be the default choice for a low budget track car. The rear 1/4 panels are bolt on which could be useful on a track car. I consider it 80% of a Lotus Elise for 20% of the money.
I sold it a few years back and had a few cars since. I ended up in another MR2, this was an 06 plate and had about 50k on it, I bought it from a salvage auction, I didn't intend to keep it that long but I started the Boxster engine swap soon after and it became my daily driver. I've had it over 2 years, it's needed nothing in that time. The original engine is a disappointment after owning a 2ZZ car but it's still a great steer. I found it hard to find a photo, I don't care for it much, think i've washed it 3 times in 2 years.
While browsing the classifieds I noticed a Celica 190 locally at a price too cheap to pass up on. I decided i'll do myself another MR2 2ZZ (i'll probably have to sell it in Spring to fund the Boxster engine swap). I didn't want to use my black car as it's a Cat D and has a rip in the roof (i'm too tight to replace it!) so I bought another MR2 and i'll sell my black one to cover the cost of doing the swap.
The Celica is ropey but it's got some decent parts like coilovers. I'll break it, be quids in and have the engine to go in the MR2. It has only done 78k miles. From what I can tell, the lad who owned it was Polish, he looked after it, went back to Poland and sold it to his mate on the cheap who ragged it around (probably on his mates tax and insurance) and then wanted rid of it once the MOT was due.
I picked up an MR2 a week later. It's not to my taste really but the price was right. I wanted one with a hardtop for the winter and they cost £500 on their own so I focused on finding a car with a hardtop. It's got a TTE style bar which looks like a roll over hoop but would actually cave your head in if you did roll over, i'll sell that along with the alloys and the backbox. The photo of the rear was one I took to show by brother the state of the rear bumper which is why it's a poor photo but it's the only one i've got and I took it straight to a body shop after buying it to get it painted (mainly to get it out of the way, i've now got too many cars). I can get paint work done for £50 a panel which is handy.
The guy I bought it off was moving from a house to a caravan, he gave me the original set of wheels for it, he also randomly gave me 3 brand new alloys the same as what's on the car. This is a head scratcher for me, why 3 and they are 5 stud rather than 4 stud like the MR2, it makes no sense but being a bit of a Dell Boy I had them anyway. If someone has a single matching alloy (Asuka Racing KE10 17x7 et42 5x100 / 5x108) or has a Robin Reliant and wants 3, let me know!
Liking the idea of this! Many on here have said that it really should have been given the 190 engine from factory.
I've actually started really liking small, cheap sports cars as of late. Like you, these have never really been my cup of tea, in the past. MR2's seem like a better bet than an MX5 but the practicality side of things is quite a compromise as an only car.
Looking forward to updates.
I've actually started really liking small, cheap sports cars as of late. Like you, these have never really been my cup of tea, in the past. MR2's seem like a better bet than an MX5 but the practicality side of things is quite a compromise as an only car.
Looking forward to updates.
I've just started a little mr2 project myself
http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=...
great to work on
Escy said:
I can't understand why Toyota didn't use the 2zz in the MR2. The MR2 doesn't rust apart from the rear subframe which is a bolt on part so it beats the MX5 in that regard although it definately loses out on storage space.
At least it's easy enough to do. For me, i'd probably leave it, but i can imagine it makes it a much better experience in a straight line. Toyota were clearly focusing on a more fun aspect as apposed to all-out speed.This is the only thing that puts me off tbh. I could do with a bit more practicality. The boot-size of the MX5 would be about right for me, i reckon. I'd just prefer the MR2 pretty much everywhere else.
I always compression test an engine before taking it out. The Celica sprang a surprise on me.
Cylinder 1 - 190psi
Cylinder 2 - 40psi
Cylinder 3 - 210psi
Cylinder 4 - 210psi
I put some oil down the bore on cylinder 2 and it made no difference to the compression so that means it'll be the valves not seating. I wasn't expecting this, the car drives fine and idles well. Sorting that out has landed me with a load of extra work, nothing is ever straight forward.
Getting the engine out is pretty easy on these, especially as i'm angle grinder happy. I'm running out space, the engine is sat on a pallet which is on my engine hoist. That's my makeshift work bench.
Stripping down the engine. All pretty straight forward thankfully. No nasty surprises, looks like it's had regular oil changes which is nice.
Once the cylinder head was off I filled up the combustion chambers up with water and waited. The exhaust valves on cylinder 1 and 2 were leaking.
Once I had confirmed the issue I stripped the cylinder head, it's all in the boot of the Boxster as that's the only safe place i've got left.
Borrowed a valve spring compressor from a mate and started taking them out.
Jackpot, Big fat carbon deposit on the valve. I noticed in the car's history it had a Terraclean done, I bet that caused this. At least there is no damage, I just need to re-lap the valves in and it can go back together.
I got the MR2 back from paint and gave it a wash. It looks like a rollerskate on 17's with standard suspension.
Cylinder 1 - 190psi
Cylinder 2 - 40psi
Cylinder 3 - 210psi
Cylinder 4 - 210psi
I put some oil down the bore on cylinder 2 and it made no difference to the compression so that means it'll be the valves not seating. I wasn't expecting this, the car drives fine and idles well. Sorting that out has landed me with a load of extra work, nothing is ever straight forward.
Getting the engine out is pretty easy on these, especially as i'm angle grinder happy. I'm running out space, the engine is sat on a pallet which is on my engine hoist. That's my makeshift work bench.
Stripping down the engine. All pretty straight forward thankfully. No nasty surprises, looks like it's had regular oil changes which is nice.
Once the cylinder head was off I filled up the combustion chambers up with water and waited. The exhaust valves on cylinder 1 and 2 were leaking.
Once I had confirmed the issue I stripped the cylinder head, it's all in the boot of the Boxster as that's the only safe place i've got left.
Borrowed a valve spring compressor from a mate and started taking them out.
Jackpot, Big fat carbon deposit on the valve. I noticed in the car's history it had a Terraclean done, I bet that caused this. At least there is no damage, I just need to re-lap the valves in and it can go back together.
I got the MR2 back from paint and gave it a wash. It looks like a rollerskate on 17's with standard suspension.
I've done a similar thing with an older generation : fitted an AE111 engine and gearbox to a 1986 mk1a MR2.
I drive it daily.
IMO the mk2 MR2 was a bit more of a GT, and I just can't like the shape of the mk3, or I would have done what you're doing.
Good work!
ps
AW11 mr2 + AE111 driveline = AW111
I drive it daily.
IMO the mk2 MR2 was a bit more of a GT, and I just can't like the shape of the mk3, or I would have done what you're doing.
Good work!
ps
AW11 mr2 + AE111 driveline = AW111
Escy said:
I can't understand why Toyota didn't use the 2zz in the MR2. The MR2 doesn't rust apart from the rear subframe which is a bolt on part so it beats the MX5 in that regard although it definately loses out on storage space.
Gentleman's agreement with Lotus apparently! Look forward to seeing progress
Had my first drive of one of these a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it.I watched your videos on it, you seemed to be having fun. I love the idea of the K20 swap but I can't see the value for money in it compared to a 2ZZ. A 2ZZ is probably about 20bhp down on power but around 3k cheaper to build.
If you fancy having a crack at a 2ZZ car let me know. (probably not now you've driven a K20 one)
AW111, I always planned to put the 20v 4AGE into a Mk1 if anything had happened to either of my Levin's.
If you fancy having a crack at a 2ZZ car let me know. (probably not now you've driven a K20 one)
AW111, I always planned to put the 20v 4AGE into a Mk1 if anything had happened to either of my Levin's.
Escy said:
I watched your videos on it, you seemed to be having fun. I love the idea of the K20 swap but I can't see the value for money in it compared to a 2ZZ. A 2ZZ is probably about 20bhp down on power but around 3k cheaper to build.
Stock for stock there's only about 20bhp in it comparing a K20A2 to a 2ZZ-GE. The attraction of the K20 swap is the aftermarket support. If you want to make more than stock power, it is much easier to do so on the K20 platform. As a bolt in and leave it be thing you're right, a 2ZZ is the better choice.I'll be watching this with interest. I had a go in a similar one a few years ago. The car was a bit rough but the 2zz made for a pretty exciting car, even if the power band felt tiny. I wouldn't mind one myself. I think the Lotus map gives a higher redline and lower lift point - may be worth considering.
As far as I know the only reason Toyota never fitted this engine to the MR2 the deal with Lotus to supply the Exige with the same engine barred them from fitting it to the MR2.
As far as I know the only reason Toyota never fitted this engine to the MR2 the deal with Lotus to supply the Exige with the same engine barred them from fitting it to the MR2.
I got rid of the Celica.
Getting the engine out of the MR2. My technique is a bit sketchy. I lower the engine down on some jacks onto a skate and then use my engine hoist to lift the shell up over the engine and then I roll it out in between the legs of the hoist.
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Getting the engine out of the MR2. My technique is a bit sketchy. I lower the engine down on some jacks onto a skate and then use my engine hoist to lift the shell up over the engine and then I roll it out in between the legs of the hoist.
06/20171118_130008.jpg' target='_blank'/>Escy said:
I got rid of the Celica.
Getting the engine out of the MR2. My technique is a bit sketchy. I lower the engine down on some jacks onto a skate and then use my engine hoist to lift the shell up over the engine and then I roll it out in between the legs of the hoist.
I wouldn't call that technique sketchy - how else would you do it?Getting the engine out of the MR2. My technique is a bit sketchy. I lower the engine down on some jacks onto a skate and then use my engine hoist to lift the shell up over the engine and then I roll it out in between the legs of the hoist.
My method is almost the same, but I use the crane to lift the rear and put stands under it, then lower the engine onto the skate.
ETA I hope you removed the body ECU from the Celica before disposing of it, as I believe it's required to convince the engine that it's not being stolen.
Edited by AW111 on Saturday 18th November 23:26
I always do it this way but it felt sketchy this time as the engine slipped off the skate so I had to get under it while the hoist is holding the car up on the 250kg setting (needs to be fully extended so I can fit the engine between the legs). Getting the engine back on took some doing.
I don't know what you mean about the body computer. I've done 3 2ZZ swaps previously, you only need the ECU and matching keys.
The subframe has a few issues, i'll get some photos tomorrow and update the thread.
I don't know what you mean about the body computer. I've done 3 2ZZ swaps previously, you only need the ECU and matching keys.
The subframe has a few issues, i'll get some photos tomorrow and update the thread.
One of the alignment bolts for the rear toe arm was seized. This is the second MR2 i've had this with and it's a total paint. I gave it some serious Timmy Mallet and managed to push rubber bush the out of the arm while it's inside the subframe, obviously bending the subframe mounting point in the process. There is also a small rust hole you can see just behind the rubber grommet. The plan is to get a hacksaw blade in there, cut the bolt and then straighten up the mount and weld up the hole.
Both gearboxes side by side. MR2 one is the oily one on the left. You can see the shifters are on the opposite side but they just swap over. You need to use the Celica gearbox in the MR2 as it has shorter ratios, the MR2 gearbox wouldn't be able to keep the engine in lift when changing gears. You can just swap the shifter over and be done with it but the MR2 has a torque biasing differential and the Celica has an open differential so I want to swap that over, also the MR2 has a taller 6th gear which i'll swap. This makes it much more bearable on the motorway.
The casing split open, the ATB diff.
6th gear is easy to get to.
Removing it with my hydraulic puller. I think this is my favourite garage toy.
And a shot of the absolute carnage. I'm far from OCD but the mess everywhere is getting me frustrated. There is another engine (the 2ZZ) right next to where i'm standing. There are 5 gearboxes and 4 engines.
Both gearboxes side by side. MR2 one is the oily one on the left. You can see the shifters are on the opposite side but they just swap over. You need to use the Celica gearbox in the MR2 as it has shorter ratios, the MR2 gearbox wouldn't be able to keep the engine in lift when changing gears. You can just swap the shifter over and be done with it but the MR2 has a torque biasing differential and the Celica has an open differential so I want to swap that over, also the MR2 has a taller 6th gear which i'll swap. This makes it much more bearable on the motorway.
The casing split open, the ATB diff.
6th gear is easy to get to.
Removing it with my hydraulic puller. I think this is my favourite garage toy.
And a shot of the absolute carnage. I'm far from OCD but the mess everywhere is getting me frustrated. There is another engine (the 2ZZ) right next to where i'm standing. There are 5 gearboxes and 4 engines.
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