Mk2 Golf GTI 16v
Discussion
Time for the next update! I was about to do a bit more on the car but it's raining outside so you lot can see what I did last time instead:
Firstly, I need to get the exhaust off for two reasons; one being that all the joints between the sections are wobbly and blowing, and secondly I need the exhaust out of the way so I can remove the ball and socket on the end of the gear stick and replace them. Oh, and I wanted to investigate this missing stud on the head:
It turned out as I suspected. Someone's buggered the thread in the head. Not sure if there's still some stud in there too, but either way it's a trip to the machine shop to get that one solved. I'll have to come back to that in the future as it's not a major problem right now.
Back box is off the car, and not looking brilliant. I found a hole in between the two tail pipes, so this is only fit for the bin:
The centre section wasn't any better. It wasn't blowing at the join between it and the manifold as I first thought, it was actually cracked somehow. Looks like I need a whole new exhaust then! I was half expecting this anyway
Here's the only 'good' bit of the system. Shiny manifold, probably of chinese origin as it was pretty cheap looking at the receipts that came with the car:
I put some heat wrap on it to help out with proximity to the steering rack rubber boot:
Now, on to the fun stuff. I decided it would be a good idea to change the crank seal behind the clutch while I was there. I don't think it was leaking but it's hard to tell on this car because the block and gearbox are covered in a crust of old oil and dirt...
Old and new on the floor, showing the change in design in the new one I bought:
New seal in place:
The sump bolts and back plate went back on, then the clutch pressure plate:
The release plate mechanism with spring is next:
Then the friction plate and flywheel. I lined this up by eye as there's not a lot of play with VW's design so the friction plate isn't ever going to be that far out. I got it pretty much exactly central though, and did all the bolts up:
Next, lets get the gearbox prepared to go back on the car. I removed the driver's side drive shaft flange to make it easier to remove the gearbox so I started on this side by removing the drive shaft seal:
You can see the (brass?) thrust washer. Something didn't look quite right so I removed it:
All the bits on the floor: old drive shaft seal, plate that seats the spring on the back of the flange, and the thrust washer on the right. If you look carefully it's in four pieces! I pieced it back together to make sure I'd got all of it out.. I did a bit of research and apparently it's completely normal to find them in this state, and you can put them back 'as is' as long as the breaks are clean and it all marries back together ok - which mine did. They're sandwiched between the bearing groove and the spring plate for the flange anyway so can't go anywhere, and it's just there to take up slack in parts and make the diff quieter. I put it all back together with the new oi seal.
I took the other side apart too:
This thrust washer looks like it's in less pieces than the other one so I won't even bother disturbing it.
New seal in place:
Spring plate, spring, flange, C clip and new seal in middle of flange all in place:
On to the clutch release bearing. Which is at the 'wrong' end of the gearbox compared to most designs I've seen in the past. You have to open up this cover on the other end of the box. Dirty scrapy time:
Peeling up the lid:
You can see the metal finger that presses on the release bearing, and the bearing below that has slid down it's cylinder as the gearbox is upended:
I removed the catch on the clutch arm so I could spin the finger part out of the way:
1x magnet tool later and the old release bearing is out. New and old together. Looks like it needed replacing as it's a bit dimpled from years of contact with the finger:
Other side. Slightly different design but still works the same way:
Sliding the clutch rod out of the middle of the input shaft. The rod contacts the plate with the spring in the middle of the pressure plate on the clutch to actuate it. Interestingly, the new rod was a fair few MM longer than the old one. That may explain my high clutch pedal even though the old friction plate wasn't worn out:
I slid the gearbox over the clutch, it lined up first time and took about two minutes from being on the floor to being attached to the engine again. Which was nice! I was expecting it to be fiddly to do while lying on my back under the car and having to negotiate the driver's drive shaft flange around the flywheel first:
Next up was gettting the sub frame back in to position. Pretty straight forward if you get the balance right with a jack, but you have to get the steering UJ connected up at the same time. This is pretty fiddly to do on your own but I got there in the end:
Sub frame bolted back up. All the heavy work is now done, fingers crossed!
If it stops raining I'll do some more work!
Firstly, I need to get the exhaust off for two reasons; one being that all the joints between the sections are wobbly and blowing, and secondly I need the exhaust out of the way so I can remove the ball and socket on the end of the gear stick and replace them. Oh, and I wanted to investigate this missing stud on the head:
It turned out as I suspected. Someone's buggered the thread in the head. Not sure if there's still some stud in there too, but either way it's a trip to the machine shop to get that one solved. I'll have to come back to that in the future as it's not a major problem right now.
Back box is off the car, and not looking brilliant. I found a hole in between the two tail pipes, so this is only fit for the bin:
The centre section wasn't any better. It wasn't blowing at the join between it and the manifold as I first thought, it was actually cracked somehow. Looks like I need a whole new exhaust then! I was half expecting this anyway
Here's the only 'good' bit of the system. Shiny manifold, probably of chinese origin as it was pretty cheap looking at the receipts that came with the car:
I put some heat wrap on it to help out with proximity to the steering rack rubber boot:
Now, on to the fun stuff. I decided it would be a good idea to change the crank seal behind the clutch while I was there. I don't think it was leaking but it's hard to tell on this car because the block and gearbox are covered in a crust of old oil and dirt...
Old and new on the floor, showing the change in design in the new one I bought:
New seal in place:
The sump bolts and back plate went back on, then the clutch pressure plate:
The release plate mechanism with spring is next:
Then the friction plate and flywheel. I lined this up by eye as there's not a lot of play with VW's design so the friction plate isn't ever going to be that far out. I got it pretty much exactly central though, and did all the bolts up:
Next, lets get the gearbox prepared to go back on the car. I removed the driver's side drive shaft flange to make it easier to remove the gearbox so I started on this side by removing the drive shaft seal:
You can see the (brass?) thrust washer. Something didn't look quite right so I removed it:
All the bits on the floor: old drive shaft seal, plate that seats the spring on the back of the flange, and the thrust washer on the right. If you look carefully it's in four pieces! I pieced it back together to make sure I'd got all of it out.. I did a bit of research and apparently it's completely normal to find them in this state, and you can put them back 'as is' as long as the breaks are clean and it all marries back together ok - which mine did. They're sandwiched between the bearing groove and the spring plate for the flange anyway so can't go anywhere, and it's just there to take up slack in parts and make the diff quieter. I put it all back together with the new oi seal.
I took the other side apart too:
This thrust washer looks like it's in less pieces than the other one so I won't even bother disturbing it.
New seal in place:
Spring plate, spring, flange, C clip and new seal in middle of flange all in place:
On to the clutch release bearing. Which is at the 'wrong' end of the gearbox compared to most designs I've seen in the past. You have to open up this cover on the other end of the box. Dirty scrapy time:
Peeling up the lid:
You can see the metal finger that presses on the release bearing, and the bearing below that has slid down it's cylinder as the gearbox is upended:
I removed the catch on the clutch arm so I could spin the finger part out of the way:
1x magnet tool later and the old release bearing is out. New and old together. Looks like it needed replacing as it's a bit dimpled from years of contact with the finger:
Other side. Slightly different design but still works the same way:
Sliding the clutch rod out of the middle of the input shaft. The rod contacts the plate with the spring in the middle of the pressure plate on the clutch to actuate it. Interestingly, the new rod was a fair few MM longer than the old one. That may explain my high clutch pedal even though the old friction plate wasn't worn out:
I slid the gearbox over the clutch, it lined up first time and took about two minutes from being on the floor to being attached to the engine again. Which was nice! I was expecting it to be fiddly to do while lying on my back under the car and having to negotiate the driver's drive shaft flange around the flywheel first:
Next up was gettting the sub frame back in to position. Pretty straight forward if you get the balance right with a jack, but you have to get the steering UJ connected up at the same time. This is pretty fiddly to do on your own but I got there in the end:
Sub frame bolted back up. All the heavy work is now done, fingers crossed!
If it stops raining I'll do some more work!
Matt_N said:
Always good to see a Mk2 getting some tlc, wish I never sold my 89 16v.
Buy another one before prices go mental! They're still quite cheap for some reasonbern said:
Nice to see a MK2 getting some love. Looks like it needs it!
Not sure where you are in the country but if you're near Sheffield and ever need an extra pair of hands drop me a PM. Getting the sub-frame and the steering UJ lined up on your own can't of been much fun!
I'm down South, but thanks for the offer! Ironically, the car was bought from someone in Sheffield by the previous owner to me.Not sure where you are in the country but if you're near Sheffield and ever need an extra pair of hands drop me a PM. Getting the sub-frame and the steering UJ lined up on your own can't of been much fun!
The sub frame wasn't that bad actually - balanced on the jack and it lined up fine. The only fiddly bit was the steering UJ but I'd already had the sub frame off and back on again a few weeks beforehand so knew what to expect.
darkyoung1000 said:
Another former owner here, I had the MK2 GTD. VW's first attempt at a warm diesel, which ran happily on recycled vegetable oil.
Good to see you getting stuck into yours, looks like it's coming along nicely!
Cheers,
Tom
Ooh, I just had to look up GTD's as I'd not really heard of them before. They look interesting and apparently very tuneable... That gives me ideas of ultra cheap retro daily driving! Good to see you getting stuck into yours, looks like it's coming along nicely!
Cheers,
Tom
Cheers, I'm just about to do some more on the car as the weather's sorted itself out today. Might even have it back in one piece later on depending if I pull my finger out or not.
gary71 said:
Great project. Your clutch brings back memories of my own 16v friction disk exploding in spectacular fashion taking chunks out of the bellhousing on the way. It ended up with a 2.9 VR6 (back in ‘97!) but the 16v was a great engine.
Cheers! I got the car finished off today and just been for a quick test drive around the block. It drives much more like it now!! Clutch is excellent but the exhaust is a tad loud... Feels quick for a Golf too, so I guess the exhaust is actually helping. Pictures and a proper update to follow some time soon!
Next update!
I got the exhaust through the post, direct from the hub of high quality retailers known as Ebay... It was cheap. As in half the price of a proper Jetex system. You get what you pay for but I thought I'd give it a go and see what happened!
First impressions, good:
Seems like a reasonable design, free flowing but resonated so it should be quiet enough...
Anyway, before I get around to fitting the exhaust, I've got another job to do. The first job was procrastination. I noticed I've only bought an 'f GTI'
Ok, lets get on with some work. It was pot luck whether you selected first gear or reverse and this needed sorting. In the history file for the car I noticed there had been a recent selector rod/bush refurb kit put on, but this didn't seem to have done the trick. Must be the gear lever ball joint/socket in that case. They're cheap to buy but a little bit fiddly to fit. You've got to have the exhaust off to do this job, so now is the perfect time!
Heat shield off:
There's the socket the ball joint on the end of the gear lever goes in to:
Here's the top view. I took the centre console out because it's only in place with that one screw you can see. So easy to remove for better access:
After rather a lot of fiddling around I managed to remove the gear lever and socket part. The socket has to go up though the metal box part that it's located in but the gear lever has to go down through the hole left where the socket usually goes. I got there in the end!
Closer view:
They looked a bit past their best. I cleaned up the parts so I could tell for certain if they were actually faulty. You can now see the socket part is really badly worn:
The ball joint isn't much better either:
And for comparison, here's the gear lever built back up with the new ball joint:
And here's the new socket part. Don't worry, I greased them after taking these pics!
Next upate soon!
I got the exhaust through the post, direct from the hub of high quality retailers known as Ebay... It was cheap. As in half the price of a proper Jetex system. You get what you pay for but I thought I'd give it a go and see what happened!
First impressions, good:
Seems like a reasonable design, free flowing but resonated so it should be quiet enough...
Anyway, before I get around to fitting the exhaust, I've got another job to do. The first job was procrastination. I noticed I've only bought an 'f GTI'
Ok, lets get on with some work. It was pot luck whether you selected first gear or reverse and this needed sorting. In the history file for the car I noticed there had been a recent selector rod/bush refurb kit put on, but this didn't seem to have done the trick. Must be the gear lever ball joint/socket in that case. They're cheap to buy but a little bit fiddly to fit. You've got to have the exhaust off to do this job, so now is the perfect time!
Heat shield off:
There's the socket the ball joint on the end of the gear lever goes in to:
Here's the top view. I took the centre console out because it's only in place with that one screw you can see. So easy to remove for better access:
After rather a lot of fiddling around I managed to remove the gear lever and socket part. The socket has to go up though the metal box part that it's located in but the gear lever has to go down through the hole left where the socket usually goes. I got there in the end!
Closer view:
They looked a bit past their best. I cleaned up the parts so I could tell for certain if they were actually faulty. You can now see the socket part is really badly worn:
The ball joint isn't much better either:
And for comparison, here's the gear lever built back up with the new ball joint:
And here's the new socket part. Don't worry, I greased them after taking these pics!
Next upate soon!
Misterv said:
Looks like your doing a fantastic job, the devil is in the detail and it certainly seems as though your making sure everything is done correctly!
keep up the good work!
Thanks! I like to think that if I'm going to do something I might as well do it properly...keep up the good work!
Which brings us nicely to the most up to date pics and the fitting of the exhaust!
The exhaust is 2.5" bore, and I thought my manifold was the same. Turns out that it's 2.25", as I realised when I tried to fit the exhaust and saw the pipes next to each other! To get around this I went to a local exhaust place and they made me a nice reducer pipe - 2.25" one end and 2.5" the other:
Only cost a tenner, which was nice. They deliberately didn't cut slots in case I needed to go back to them and have it flared a tiny bit more. It was actually a perfect fit first time so I got the grinder out and made some slots and then fitted the exhaust:
Pretty good fit, everything's nice and snug. Moving on to the backbox, however:
That was the best I could make it look. You get what you pay for! It's a bit loud too which I was a little surprised about considering there are 3 boxes and they've all got some sound deadening in them. Maybe it'll get quieter with a few heat cycles, but I doubt it... I think it's going to be too loud to live with day-to-day so I may well end up spending another £200 on hooking up a standard system to my shiny manifold. The other option is to splash out on a Jetex 3 box system which I know is quet enough as I've had one in the past. They're over £400 though, so I might have to wait until Christmas and see if I've been a good boy
The plus side is that the car really pulls well and there's a noticeable surge >4000 rpm. Not had a chance to drive it at all before now, since buying it over a month ago!Fantastic work, I always have extra admiration for people who do this kind of work on their drive!!!
I cant imagine how many hours I've spent working on the undersides of mk2s propped on axle stands. Once I nearly took my eye out in a strange scenario where I was trying to put a rubber hanger back onto the back box and a bit of dirt dropped off the underside into my eye. My instant reaction was to roll away an in doing so i rolled onto a screwdriver that catapulted toward my other eye.
Speaking of exhaust hangers, are you aware that you can spin the rear most hanger around which ought to help pull your exhaust toward the upper right corner to sit more evenly in the valance cutout.
I cant imagine how many hours I've spent working on the undersides of mk2s propped on axle stands. Once I nearly took my eye out in a strange scenario where I was trying to put a rubber hanger back onto the back box and a bit of dirt dropped off the underside into my eye. My instant reaction was to roll away an in doing so i rolled onto a screwdriver that catapulted toward my other eye.
Speaking of exhaust hangers, are you aware that you can spin the rear most hanger around which ought to help pull your exhaust toward the upper right corner to sit more evenly in the valance cutout.
aka_kerrly said:
Fantastic work, I always have extra admiration for people who do this kind of work on their drive!!!
I cant imagine how many hours I've spent working on the undersides of mk2s propped on axle stands. Once I nearly took my eye out in a strange scenario where I was trying to put a rubber hanger back onto the back box and a bit of dirt dropped off the underside into my eye. My instant reaction was to roll away an in doing so i rolled onto a screwdriver that catapulted toward my other eye.
Speaking of exhaust hangers, are you aware that you can spin the rear most hanger around which ought to help pull your exhaust toward the upper right corner to sit more evenly in the valance cutout.
Thanks! I'd prefer a ramp but I don't have a workshop or a garage big enough, so the drive it is! I cant imagine how many hours I've spent working on the undersides of mk2s propped on axle stands. Once I nearly took my eye out in a strange scenario where I was trying to put a rubber hanger back onto the back box and a bit of dirt dropped off the underside into my eye. My instant reaction was to roll away an in doing so i rolled onto a screwdriver that catapulted toward my other eye.
Speaking of exhaust hangers, are you aware that you can spin the rear most hanger around which ought to help pull your exhaust toward the upper right corner to sit more evenly in the valance cutout.
I'm aware they can be spun around, but that would make the other end of the back box touch the heat shield around the spare wheel well, so that's as good as it gets! I've decided to sell this exhaust on as it's a bit too anti-social for me, and I'd definitely annoy the neighbours starting it up at 5am...
Wow, time flies! I still haven't driven this car in anger yet. It passed its MOT in the summer and went straight back in to the garage as I've been ridiculously busy with work. I had to kick it out of the garage at the start of November with the return of my Escort RS Turbo shell, so that's another project that needs to be looked at. I insured the Golf in November for less than £100, which was nice. I guess I need to pull my finger out and do some more work on it!
Highlights from this year include:
Discovering a coolant leak:
Finding the source of the leak... Top work whoever though bathroom sealant is a good replacement for a rubber O-ring:
Removing heater box:
This is why it makes no difference where you select the air direction to - the foam isolator has disintegrated:
Removed the heater matrix too. This has been replaced relatively recently by someone, but I'm changing it again while I'm here as it's annoying to get at:
Heater box in all its glory:
I covered the holey flaps with some plastic superglued in place so I'll be able to have hot or cold air pointed wherever I want it now!
Cleaned up associated vents and replaced foam strips for a reasonable fit:
Bought the correct wheels for the car:
I quite like the current wheels but the spigot rings are the wrong size and have plastic inserts, so I'd rather the original and correct fitment wheels were on instead. Plus the BBS's look just as good!
The car as it sits now, on my drive. I'll get around to driving it soon:
Highlights from this year include:
Discovering a coolant leak:
Finding the source of the leak... Top work whoever though bathroom sealant is a good replacement for a rubber O-ring:
Removing heater box:
This is why it makes no difference where you select the air direction to - the foam isolator has disintegrated:
Removed the heater matrix too. This has been replaced relatively recently by someone, but I'm changing it again while I'm here as it's annoying to get at:
Heater box in all its glory:
I covered the holey flaps with some plastic superglued in place so I'll be able to have hot or cold air pointed wherever I want it now!
Cleaned up associated vents and replaced foam strips for a reasonable fit:
Bought the correct wheels for the car:
I quite like the current wheels but the spigot rings are the wrong size and have plastic inserts, so I'd rather the original and correct fitment wheels were on instead. Plus the BBS's look just as good!
The car as it sits now, on my drive. I'll get around to driving it soon:
Another update for anyone reading this still:
Time to get some better springs on the car. I asked for some nice Eibach 20mm lowering springs for Christmas so I'm counting this as a zero cost fix
The springs on there currently are orange and of unknown make. They're really low and not very good, but the car looks cool I guess...
Off with the top mount nut:
Here's an offending spring:
Getting the strut bolts undone was unexpectedly really difficult! Someone had done them up to about 34963747nm (approx
) and I had to hang off the breaker bar! I got there in the end:
Old versus new spring:
Having a half decent electric impact wrench makes doing up and undoing spring compressors so much easier:
New spring fitted, making sure the spring ends sat in the correct locating places:
I stopped taking pics at this point, but refitting was just putting the 3 nuts/bolts back on and sticking the wheel back on. I made sure the wheel camber looked about right by eye too, as there's some adjustment on those hub bolts, and one of my front wheels had some positive camber before I took it all apart to change the springs!
I got one rear spring done and then ran out of light so called it a day. It was actually more difficult and time consuming doing the rear spring as you need to remove the parcel shelf support to get access to the top of the turret.
A few days later and it decided to snow and be even colder than when I did the other three springs...
Clearing the snow off the car!
General cold and snowy pic. Ignore the grey door, the green one's going back on. I just wanted to see if the green door was bent, as some water was finding its way inside, but it look like the door latches are worn and need replacing to hold the door in to the seals better:
Again, I forgot to take pics of the rear spring being changed, but here's a few 'after' shots of how it sits now:
Suspension looks a much better height now. It's a bit more raised at the front than on the old springs but the rear's not changed much. Front dampers are OEM VAG kit and look in reasonable condition and the rears are Sachs and also in good condition so I'll be keeping those for now. It's much nicer on the road too.
I'm getting there slowly, but eventually I'll have a half decent 16v Golf. Intentions are to be able to take it to work occasionally to keep it in regular use and get out on some track days. I didn't use it at all last year...
Time to get some better springs on the car. I asked for some nice Eibach 20mm lowering springs for Christmas so I'm counting this as a zero cost fix
The springs on there currently are orange and of unknown make. They're really low and not very good, but the car looks cool I guess...
Off with the top mount nut:
Here's an offending spring:
Getting the strut bolts undone was unexpectedly really difficult! Someone had done them up to about 34963747nm (approx
) and I had to hang off the breaker bar! I got there in the end:Old versus new spring:
Having a half decent electric impact wrench makes doing up and undoing spring compressors so much easier:
New spring fitted, making sure the spring ends sat in the correct locating places:
I stopped taking pics at this point, but refitting was just putting the 3 nuts/bolts back on and sticking the wheel back on. I made sure the wheel camber looked about right by eye too, as there's some adjustment on those hub bolts, and one of my front wheels had some positive camber before I took it all apart to change the springs!
I got one rear spring done and then ran out of light so called it a day. It was actually more difficult and time consuming doing the rear spring as you need to remove the parcel shelf support to get access to the top of the turret.
A few days later and it decided to snow and be even colder than when I did the other three springs...
Clearing the snow off the car!
General cold and snowy pic. Ignore the grey door, the green one's going back on. I just wanted to see if the green door was bent, as some water was finding its way inside, but it look like the door latches are worn and need replacing to hold the door in to the seals better:
Again, I forgot to take pics of the rear spring being changed, but here's a few 'after' shots of how it sits now:
Suspension looks a much better height now. It's a bit more raised at the front than on the old springs but the rear's not changed much. Front dampers are OEM VAG kit and look in reasonable condition and the rears are Sachs and also in good condition so I'll be keeping those for now. It's much nicer on the road too.
I'm getting there slowly, but eventually I'll have a half decent 16v Golf. Intentions are to be able to take it to work occasionally to keep it in regular use and get out on some track days. I didn't use it at all last year...
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