1991 Mercedes W124 250D Manual
Discussion
Interesting stuff.
On the power steering front, it is very easy to change the fluid and actually improves the feeling at the wheel. Engine off. Remove the return line and stick in a jug. Have someone work the wheel from lock to lock. This pumps fluid round the system, back through your return line and into your jug. Add new fluid to the reservoir as you go (do not let it run dry). Run about two litres of fluid through it. Change the filter (about £5). Top up. Febi make the fluid (Febi 08972), it is less than £10 a litre on eBay. Mann make the filter (Mann H85), again less than a tenner.
You're probably well aware how best to maximise mpg in these but I find with my E300 D that keeping it under 80mph makes a big difference. I get about 30mpg but my wife gets up to 36. She is something of a slow coach.
On the power steering front, it is very easy to change the fluid and actually improves the feeling at the wheel. Engine off. Remove the return line and stick in a jug. Have someone work the wheel from lock to lock. This pumps fluid round the system, back through your return line and into your jug. Add new fluid to the reservoir as you go (do not let it run dry). Run about two litres of fluid through it. Change the filter (about £5). Top up. Febi make the fluid (Febi 08972), it is less than £10 a litre on eBay. Mann make the filter (Mann H85), again less than a tenner.
You're probably well aware how best to maximise mpg in these but I find with my E300 D that keeping it under 80mph makes a big difference. I get about 30mpg but my wife gets up to 36. She is something of a slow coach.
Cheers for the comms!
I remember my Alfa 147 JTD 8v. That was a lovely car and even in 115BHP form it did shift nicely! I know what you mean about rustproofing!
It's a car that I have gelled with. Besides the tyres it wants the bodywork sorting, or at leasts parts of it to get it better as well as the driver's seat reupholstering ; I have found a cheap solution for that but we shall see if I go ahead with it.
Interesting about the fluid. It's the first time I have seen the part number for it! I ended up getting this after Comma saying it is the recommended fluid. I'm hoping it should be OK. I notice that most use Dextron III. The Comma fluid in question is a Merc specified one however. Whether I will return the bottle is another answer.
http://www.commaoil.com/commercial-vehicles/produc...
Paul S4 said:
Excellent thread ! Very well written tale and sounds like a good project.
Keep us updated on the progress...it sounds like it will become 'more than a shed' and the temptation will be, as most PH'ers know, to keep on improving the car.
I have just bought a Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 Mjet Sporting as my daily commuter car, but I have to resist the urge to spend money on it !
It has 130 BHP anyway, but if I got a wee remap it would be a real hot hatch...almost as good as my P&J which is an Alfa 156 JTDM with a remap. The Fiat is supposed to be used to keep the miles ( and more importantly the salt etc ) off the Alfa, which has been rustproofed underneath in an attempt to preserve it !
Anyway, apologies for going OT, but quite envious of your old Merc !
The temptation is there for mission creep! It will want two new tyres which will be around £90-100 for Goodyears ; I can't see the point of fitting budgets for £20 less and I've had mixed experiences with part-worns. Considering the alloys will set me back £160 after fitting, and I could probably make some cash back off my wheels and trims it's a tempting deal.Keep us updated on the progress...it sounds like it will become 'more than a shed' and the temptation will be, as most PH'ers know, to keep on improving the car.
I have just bought a Fiat Grande Punto 1.9 Mjet Sporting as my daily commuter car, but I have to resist the urge to spend money on it !
It has 130 BHP anyway, but if I got a wee remap it would be a real hot hatch...almost as good as my P&J which is an Alfa 156 JTDM with a remap. The Fiat is supposed to be used to keep the miles ( and more importantly the salt etc ) off the Alfa, which has been rustproofed underneath in an attempt to preserve it !
Anyway, apologies for going OT, but quite envious of your old Merc !
I remember my Alfa 147 JTD 8v. That was a lovely car and even in 115BHP form it did shift nicely! I know what you mean about rustproofing!
It's a car that I have gelled with. Besides the tyres it wants the bodywork sorting, or at leasts parts of it to get it better as well as the driver's seat reupholstering ; I have found a cheap solution for that but we shall see if I go ahead with it.
r129sl said:
Interesting stuff.
On the power steering front, it is very easy to change the fluid and actually improves the feeling at the wheel. Engine off. Remove the return line and stick in a jug. Have someone work the wheel from lock to lock. This pumps fluid round the system, back through your return line and into your jug. Add new fluid to the reservoir as you go (do not let it run dry). Run about two litres of fluid through it. Change the filter (about £5). Top up. Febi make the fluid (Febi 08972), it is less than £10 a litre on eBay. Mann make the filter (Mann H85), again less than a tenner.
You're probably well aware how best to maximise mpg in these but I find with my E300 D that keeping it under 80mph makes a big difference. I get about 30mpg but my wife gets up to 36. She is something of a slow coach.
I see someone spotted the Hengst PAS filter.; I asked for a Mann at the local factors but they had the equivlant Hengst item. I was debating cranking it over with the stop lever pulled so as to flush it out but your method sounds alot better and easier! I also have concerns about running the pump dry.On the power steering front, it is very easy to change the fluid and actually improves the feeling at the wheel. Engine off. Remove the return line and stick in a jug. Have someone work the wheel from lock to lock. This pumps fluid round the system, back through your return line and into your jug. Add new fluid to the reservoir as you go (do not let it run dry). Run about two litres of fluid through it. Change the filter (about £5). Top up. Febi make the fluid (Febi 08972), it is less than £10 a litre on eBay. Mann make the filter (Mann H85), again less than a tenner.
You're probably well aware how best to maximise mpg in these but I find with my E300 D that keeping it under 80mph makes a big difference. I get about 30mpg but my wife gets up to 36. She is something of a slow coach.
Interesting about the fluid. It's the first time I have seen the part number for it! I ended up getting this after Comma saying it is the recommended fluid. I'm hoping it should be OK. I notice that most use Dextron III. The Comma fluid in question is a Merc specified one however. Whether I will return the bottle is another answer.
http://www.commaoil.com/commercial-vehicles/produc...
The Comma fluid will be more than good enough. It's a fairly unsophisticated system, after all. In the past I have topped up with regular ATF with no problems. And Hengst is probably better than Mann. The power steering fluid circulates pretty fast with the pump running, so I would definitely do it with the engine off, an assistant turning the wheel from lock to lock. My six year old did it for me (wheels off the ground).
There is a very nice early 250 TD for sale in the Merc Club. It is super-poverty spec but in seriously mint nick. I bet it's a lovely thing if you can slow down a bit...
Edit: you're mad to spend £100 a tyre on this car. Is it on 195/65 R 15s? You can get Contis for less than £50 a corner. I'd be tempted to put Michelin Cross Climates on it to give it winter go anywhere abilities.
There is a very nice early 250 TD for sale in the Merc Club. It is super-poverty spec but in seriously mint nick. I bet it's a lovely thing if you can slow down a bit...
Edit: you're mad to spend £100 a tyre on this car. Is it on 195/65 R 15s? You can get Contis for less than £50 a corner. I'd be tempted to put Michelin Cross Climates on it to give it winter go anywhere abilities.
r129sl said:
The Comma fluid will be more than good enough. It's a fairly unsophisticated system, after all. In the past I have topped up with regular ATF with no problems. And Hengst is probably better than Mann. The power steering fluid circulates pretty fast with the pump running, so I would definitely do it with the engine off, an assistant turning the wheel from lock to lock. My six year old did it for me (wheels off the ground).
There is a very nice early 250 TD for sale in the Merc Club. It is super-poverty spec but in seriously mint nick. I bet it's a lovely thing if you can slow down a bit...
Edit: you're mad to spend £100 a tyre on this car. Is it on 195/65 R 15s? You can get Contis for less than £50 a corner. I'd be tempted to put Michelin Cross Climates on it to give it winter go anywhere abilities.
I thought exactly the same thing about the filters so that is promising. The strange thing is I found the Febi oil for £3.60 a litre from CP4L; a right result! If I need more ECP keep it in stock on a trade account There is a very nice early 250 TD for sale in the Merc Club. It is super-poverty spec but in seriously mint nick. I bet it's a lovely thing if you can slow down a bit...
Edit: you're mad to spend £100 a tyre on this car. Is it on 195/65 R 15s? You can get Contis for less than £50 a corner. I'd be tempted to put Michelin Cross Climates on it to give it winter go anywhere abilities.
.I’ll be honest I am really gelling with the car. Sure it would be nice to have more pace but not at those economy figures; I already have one semi thirsty car for that. The diesels certainly have a charm however!
As for the tyre prices I found Goodyear EfficientGrip Perfomances for £88 a pair fitted on my driveway. I wouldn’t spend £100 on 195/65R15s either! The issue for me was being offered the decent 15 spoke alloy wheels for £120 with the fitting of two supplies tyres on top. Ultimately they make look better but I suspect sticking with the steelies and new Goodyears will yield a better result and with change from £100.
It’s great to hear such good advice about how to go about things ??
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted with the Cross Climates. Michelins have been super for me in the past and on the other car transformed it from it being on Falkens. It all depends on if I keep the car.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 27th November 19:35
I'd stick with the steelies. Personally, I like the look. And I'd rather have new Goodyears than second hand alloys.
Thanks for the tip on the PS fluid. Although it's not like I use a lot of it.
There is something ever so satisfying about these old NA diesels. They seem to offer enormous fidelity. You just know the engine and transmission will run and run and run, no matter what you throw at it. I know in mine that I feel that no journey would exhaust it: all it needs is time (although mine happily runs at 95mph all day long, as I'm sure yours will, too).
Thanks for the tip on the PS fluid. Although it's not like I use a lot of it.
There is something ever so satisfying about these old NA diesels. They seem to offer enormous fidelity. You just know the engine and transmission will run and run and run, no matter what you throw at it. I know in mine that I feel that no journey would exhaust it: all it needs is time (although mine happily runs at 95mph all day long, as I'm sure yours will, too).
r129sl said:
I'd stick with the steelies. Personally, I like the look. And I'd rather have new Goodyears than second hand alloys.
Thanks for the tip on the PS fluid. Although it's not like I use a lot of it.
There is something ever so satisfying about these old NA diesels. They seem to offer enormous fidelity. You just know the engine and transmission will run and run and run, no matter what you throw at it. I know in mine that I feel that no journey would exhaust it: all it needs is time (although mine happily runs at 95mph all day long, as I'm sure yours will, too).
Time will tell which choice I will go with. That will wait for another time however Thanks for the tip on the PS fluid. Although it's not like I use a lot of it.
There is something ever so satisfying about these old NA diesels. They seem to offer enormous fidelity. You just know the engine and transmission will run and run and run, no matter what you throw at it. I know in mine that I feel that no journey would exhaust it: all it needs is time (although mine happily runs at 95mph all day long, as I'm sure yours will, too).
.There is definitely something satisfying about the diesels just running and running. I may have tried the upper speeds I must admit and not on a downhill slope! They do just go and go!
This weekend was spent with me putting on almost 200 miles onto the car. It's not a car I leave sitting much! However, it was time to do power steering filter.
For those wondering it's quite an easy job to do. I did it as R129SL suggested and it's not too bad. Pelican Parts say to use the turkey baster method which they claim is effective.
It is interesting that the original filter was made by LUK or at least for LUK ; I've never seen them involved with filters before.
Maybe it is a placebo effect but the steering does seem a touch lighter now. The keen eyed would have noticed that I removed the air intake reducer from the airbox. Some claim it makes a difference, others don't. Whether it does or not is another matter. I may reinstall as I saw the state of the air filter. Suffice to say I plan to give the car a service of all of the filters via an order with CP4L using Mann filters where possible. It seems they possibly are the OE filter for the fuel filter going by a few dealer listings.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 4th December 18:36
The Mann filters are perfectly OK and I use them but Mann definitely doesn't make the fuel filter for MB. The design is different. The Mann filter has four holes in the top; the MB filter has (from memory) eight. Not sure that makes much difference at all, of course. It is such a bore buying genuine parts because they are not readily available by mail order or online and trooping out the dealer's is such a ball ache.
I thought there was a definite improvement in steering feel with new fluid; not just placebo.
I thought there was a definite improvement in steering feel with new fluid; not just placebo.
r129sl said:
The Mann filters are perfectly OK and I use them but Mann definitely doesn't make the fuel filter for MB. The design is different. The Mann filter has four holes in the top; the MB filter has (from memory) eight. Not sure that makes much difference at all, of course. It is such a bore buying genuine parts because they are not readily available by mail order or online and trooping out the dealer's is such a ball ache.
I thought there was a definite improvement in steering feel with new fluid; not just placebo.
That is interesting. I merely went off a passing advert I saw.I thought there was a definite improvement in steering feel with new fluid; not just placebo.
Mann may still make the filters but the motor factors may not sell the correct item/Mann may reserve it for MB OEM. I've seen it on a few cars. Get a Dayco timing belt from Peugeot and it's thicker/wider than what you get from GSF. You can buy two dampers for an E46 M3 (Coupe or Convertible, maybe even CSL), but ECP? They only sell one, despite Sachs making them. Mahle E46 M3 filters are another known one. There are others like Mondeo MkIII brake pads but you get the idea
IME I have come to a few conclusions as to why this is the case, after speaking with a few folk who worked on the lines/around them in the industry and now partly being involved:
-Price/profit; IMHO it's the main one and everything will always come back to it ; If the manufacturers can lower the prices they will. That could be by changing specs on filters etc. over a few thousand or by cross referencing an item to being sold to a wholesaler, thus selling only one item in the place of 4. Economies of scale have alot to answer for.
-Stocking ; it's easier to stock 1 item for many as a motor factor as opposed to 5 for various bits. Logistics probably work out better too.
-People : Suspension may be another thing, but on most aspects most people won't initially be able to tell the difference. The fact that it's cheaper to buy from a motor factor will simply make it a win. I'll admit, I'm not much better here myself! The M3 and a previous Ford are probably the only cars I've bartered with the dealers over on price. But it took me many hundreds of thousands of miles to come to this conclusion, albeit on Fords. Unsurprisingly the last one was pretty good. It's also almost too late for old BL stuff ; alot of the stuff made is cheap crap which barely lasts a year.
But as you say, the filters should be OK. Interestingly, the Crosland fuel filters do have 8 holes in them.
At the risk of descending to new levels of anal retention interesting not even to ourselves, the Mann oil filter for my w201 is a better item than the genuine MB part. MB changed the spec (presumably to reduce cost) and the MB part now is smaller and lacks the scalloped edges which fit into the oil filter removal spanner; the Mann filter still matches the original MB spec.
As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
r129sl said:
At the risk of descending to new levels of anal retention interesting not even to ourselves, the Mann oil filter for my w201 is a better item than the genuine MB part. MB changed the spec (presumably to reduce cost) and the MB part now is smaller and lacks the scalloped edges which fit into the oil filter removal spanner; the Mann filter still matches the original MB spec.
As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
Couldn't have said it better myself As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
.Anyway, all being well, there will be another update but bar the bodywork and seat the workload coming is a little more bread and butter
.What R129 said. Headrests is one area. The other choice is to obtain another part of an interior (seat base etc.) very cheaply, which is what I plan to do (rear seat squab for £20).
This reminds me. It's time to see if an old trimmer friend I know is still around. I know of one but he's a little more pricey due to more labour intensive methods, even if he is a friend!
This reminds me. It's time to see if an old trimmer friend I know is still around. I know of one but he's a little more pricey due to more labour intensive methods, even if he is a friend!
It's fair to say I am gelling with this car! I will have to remember that this was only term car! I guess this always happens mind you!
Speaking of gelling, I knew that when I bought the car the Nexen NBlue tyres on the front of the car were not long for this world. They gripped well but they were down to the markers! Amazing considering they are only a year old going by the DOT stamp and they've potentially covered 10,000 miles! Clearly, something had to be done.
With that in mind I initially was going to get a half decent mid-range tyre like a Hankook. Something else however was more within reach than I initially suspected ; that was right in my price range! Before I knew it I placed the order and then played the waiting game of when the tyre man would arrive at my drive.
As for the latter part I was not kidding!
Untitled by Charlieboy, on Flickr
It was strange going for tyres this way, especially when I have used a tyre bloke in Rugby for years! For £90 fitted on the driveway on a busy day however I could not complain.
What did my £90 fitted get me?
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on Flickr
These. A pair of Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance tyres. Reassuringly the tyres were date stamped 4717, so week 47 of this year, something I wasn't expecting to be honest! It's fair to say they were a very fresh batch! On a cold frosty day I couldn't really tell the difference between them and the Nexens ; I guess the coldness and the tyre releasing agent still wearing off probably wasn't helping matters. Something else later wouldn't but we will come back to that later.
The reason why I wasn't too bothered about finding out about the new tyres was because I was helping a fellow friend acquire his new car. But I also ended up coming into part of his other plans.
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on Flickr
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on Flickr
In short he bought the silver/gold Skyline above with a poorly engine. After a rebuild sage he eventually had it rebuilt by a competent person and the car has generally been better than ever. Those of you who went to Retro Rides Gathering would be more than aware of this. Yes, it was a bit of an ad-hoc day for me that day but what a way to have such a great time! The red car was on Weber 48s and boy that thing shifted! I am not considering changing car to have something on Webers. Or looking at overpriced carbon fibre airboxes on my M3. I don't need the noise, honest. Who am I kidding, I do! No, I don't! Arrrrghh!!!!
I then came to do some more work on the car on Sunday or even just drive abot. However, remember that 'something else' that I mentioned previously? Yup, I would come across a bit of an obstacle:
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on Flickr
Yes, the snow had hit Warwickshire! With the car being on summer tyres all round it probably wouldn't grip in the snow at all! For a while I was wishing I got some winter biased tyres fitted on the front! Suffice to say I knew that would have been a silly solution, and as suspected the wishing feeling went away by Thursday! Just as the snow disappeared oddly enough!
So did I go out on the snow days in a car that can't wheelspin in the dry with mechanical sympathy in mind and possibly also the wet? Well, it would have been rude not to, wouldn't it?.
There will be more to come soon folks!
Speaking of gelling, I knew that when I bought the car the Nexen NBlue tyres on the front of the car were not long for this world. They gripped well but they were down to the markers! Amazing considering they are only a year old going by the DOT stamp and they've potentially covered 10,000 miles! Clearly, something had to be done.
With that in mind I initially was going to get a half decent mid-range tyre like a Hankook. Something else however was more within reach than I initially suspected ; that was right in my price range! Before I knew it I placed the order and then played the waiting game of when the tyre man would arrive at my drive.
As for the latter part I was not kidding!
Untitled by Charlieboy, on FlickrIt was strange going for tyres this way, especially when I have used a tyre bloke in Rugby for years! For £90 fitted on the driveway on a busy day however I could not complain.
What did my £90 fitted get me?
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on FlickrThese. A pair of Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance tyres. Reassuringly the tyres were date stamped 4717, so week 47 of this year, something I wasn't expecting to be honest! It's fair to say they were a very fresh batch! On a cold frosty day I couldn't really tell the difference between them and the Nexens ; I guess the coldness and the tyre releasing agent still wearing off probably wasn't helping matters. Something else later wouldn't but we will come back to that later.
The reason why I wasn't too bothered about finding out about the new tyres was because I was helping a fellow friend acquire his new car. But I also ended up coming into part of his other plans.
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on FlickrW124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on FlickrIn short he bought the silver/gold Skyline above with a poorly engine. After a rebuild sage he eventually had it rebuilt by a competent person and the car has generally been better than ever. Those of you who went to Retro Rides Gathering would be more than aware of this
. Yes, it was a bit of an ad-hoc day for me that day but what a way to have such a great time! The red car was on Weber 48s and boy that thing shifted! I am not considering changing car to have something on Webers. Or looking at overpriced carbon fibre airboxes on my M3. I don't need the noise, honest. Who am I kidding, I do! No, I don't! Arrrrghh!!!!I then came to do some more work on the car on Sunday or even just drive abot. However, remember that 'something else' that I mentioned previously? Yup, I would come across a bit of an obstacle:
W124 Weekender by Charlieboy, on FlickrYes, the snow had hit Warwickshire! With the car being on summer tyres all round it probably wouldn't grip in the snow at all! For a while I was wishing I got some winter biased tyres fitted on the front! Suffice to say I knew that would have been a silly solution, and as suspected the wishing feeling went away by Thursday! Just as the snow disappeared oddly enough!
So did I go out on the snow days in a car that can't wheelspin in the dry with mechanical sympathy in mind and possibly also the wet? Well, it would have been rude not to, wouldn't it?
.There will be more to come soon folks!
Edited by SebringMan on Saturday 16th December 07:21
r129sl said:
At the risk of descending to new levels of anal retention interesting not even to ourselves, the Mann oil filter for my w201 is a better item than the genuine MB part. MB changed the spec (presumably to reduce cost) and the MB part now is smaller and lacks the scalloped edges which fit into the oil filter removal spanner; the Mann filter still matches the original MB spec.
As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
Wise words, I remember when Fiat changed the manufacturer of their oil filters. I had a brand new gen one with swarf in the threads!As with everything, selection of parts is a matter of intelligent judgment rather than slavish adherence to rules.
The old Merc is lovely. I have only worked on one, a 300TE, which was rather fun in the snow!
Something so right about them, amazing they are still viable now with minimal fettling, well, if you buy a good one as they do eventually rust.
There was an old guy on our road, 15 years we lived here and he had a 300E, always fancied it, it was mine and his partner scrapped it when he passed.
Nearly bought one, like four years ago, still see it every time I go to the local Aldi, to be fair, 230's are a bit slow, but it is 27 years old now, amazing ts still a daily.
There was an old guy on our road, 15 years we lived here and he had a 300E, always fancied it, it was mine and his partner scrapped it when he passed.
Nearly bought one, like four years ago, still see it every time I go to the local Aldi, to be fair, 230's are a bit slow, but it is 27 years old now, amazing ts still a daily.
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