The £7700 Corvette C6
Discussion
minipower said:
Really enjoyed reading the update and you are doing a great job of persuading me to try North Weald.
How are you finding the Z06 shocks on the road? I’m going to order the C6 z51 arbs but torn between Bilstein or Z06 shocks. American forums seem to mainly focus on lowering and making the car as stiff as possible which I do not consider ideal with our uneven and broken road surfaces. The C5 already has a tendency to skip over bumps.
Thanks, you should try it, to date I've not known anyone break or damage their car at North Weald: the runs are short and the car gets time to cool down between laps. It's a safe way of perfecting your driving skills, a good laugh too.How are you finding the Z06 shocks on the road? I’m going to order the C6 z51 arbs but torn between Bilstein or Z06 shocks. American forums seem to mainly focus on lowering and making the car as stiff as possible which I do not consider ideal with our uneven and broken road surfaces. The C5 already has a tendency to skip over bumps.
The Z06 shocks are comfortable on the road, fractionally firmer than the Bilsteins I had before them, but still smooth. The C6 Z06 has a firm ride, but a lot of this is down to the springs, shocks alone are fine. The editor of the Corvette Club magazine, Mark, has just fitted C6 Z06 shocks to his C5 and commented on the improvement. If you go for Bilsteins be aware there are two types.
I'll probably sell the Bilsteins and Z06 shocks at some stage when I swap to adjustable dampers over the winter if you're interested.
MrNoisy said:
Great update Dave as always. I am jealous of how you find the time to fit it all in!
Looking forward to Donington in a couple of weeks. Did you manage to persuade any other Vette peeps to come along?
I'm lucky (?) that I work some weekends so build up a fair bit of time in lieu. Oh and having an understanding, car liking wife helps. Looking forward to Donington in a couple of weeks. Did you manage to persuade any other Vette peeps to come along?
Yes, I'm all set for Donington as long as the Radiator arrives in time, no other Corvette's that I know of. A couple of the owners that have enjoyed North Weald are building up to a track day in the next year or so I would guess. Is your car ready? I'll reply to your last email soon, I've got two more race weekends to organise then I should have a bit more time and a little less pressure.
Fishy Dave said:
I'm lucky (?) that I work some weekends so build up a fair bit of time in lieu. Oh and having an understanding, car liking wife helps.
Yes, I'm all set for Donington as long as the Radiator arrives in time, no other Corvette's that I know of. A couple of the owners that have enjoyed North Weald are building up to a track day in the next year or so I would guess. Is your car ready? I'll reply to your last email soon, I've got two more race weekends to organise then I should have a bit more time and a little less pressure.
Should be yeah, Silverstone next Monday then Donington the week after. Children all under orders to not develop any temperatures or coughs between now and then.Yes, I'm all set for Donington as long as the Radiator arrives in time, no other Corvette's that I know of. A couple of the owners that have enjoyed North Weald are building up to a track day in the next year or so I would guess. Is your car ready? I'll reply to your last email soon, I've got two more race weekends to organise then I should have a bit more time and a little less pressure.
Fishy Dave said:
minipower said:
Really enjoyed reading the update and you are doing a great job of persuading me to try North Weald.
How are you finding the Z06 shocks on the road? I’m going to order the C6 z51 arbs but torn between Bilstein or Z06 shocks. American forums seem to mainly focus on lowering and making the car as stiff as possible which I do not consider ideal with our uneven and broken road surfaces. The C5 already has a tendency to skip over bumps.
Thanks, you should try it, to date I've not known anyone break or damage their car at North Weald: the runs are short and the car gets time to cool down between laps. It's a safe way of perfecting your driving skills, a good laugh too.How are you finding the Z06 shocks on the road? I’m going to order the C6 z51 arbs but torn between Bilstein or Z06 shocks. American forums seem to mainly focus on lowering and making the car as stiff as possible which I do not consider ideal with our uneven and broken road surfaces. The C5 already has a tendency to skip over bumps.
The Z06 shocks are comfortable on the road, fractionally firmer than the Bilsteins I had before them, but still smooth. The C6 Z06 has a firm ride, but a lot of this is down to the springs, shocks alone are fine. The editor of the Corvette Club magazine, Mark, has just fitted C6 Z06 shocks to his C5 and commented on the improvement. If you go for Bilsteins be aware there are two types.
I'll probably sell the Bilsteins and Z06 shocks at some stage when I swap to adjustable dampers over the winter if you're interested.
Thanks for the info on shocks. Knowing that, I think I’ll probably go C6 Z06 shocks. I’d be really interested in the set on your car so please let me know when you are ready to sell. Hopefully the pm function works on here.
It was a good event, a shame my brake discs thought otherwise. I hope they can put on the Goodwood weekend in 2021. Fishy Dave said:
Any chance of a time goes out the window, what were you driving?
Doesn't it just! Even in an MX5 - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...The radiator arrived, but the brackets that hold the shroud and the fan were squashed. With some heat and prying I was able to get them back into shape, but they are inevitably weaker.
All credit to myus.com they pursued a claim and refund for me, I will probably replace the rad again at some stage, meantime I had to hope that the core was ok as there was no time to order another from America. Once again I took the opportunity of the rad being out to blast compressed air through the A/C condensor, clearing out yet more stone and bugs. The adhesive on the foam insulation strips I had added to the previous radiator had melted, so this time I glued rubber weather seal to various places to seal gaps between the coolers and shroud.
I filtered and re-used much of the few month old distilled water and redline Water Wetter, topping up with more of the same, it takes ages to fill.
The day after working at Mallory Park I made the short drive to a trackday at Donington Park, on the National layout, on Monday 2nd November. This was a bit of fun, but also practice ahead of the planned day and night Time Attack round. Sadly Covid has put paid to that, so we'll have to wait until next year to compete in that. Still, that did mean I could fully enjoy the trackday without having to worry about saving the car.
I was there with car friend Ritchie and his son, bringing along his silver C6. This was his first time to Donington and with the morning starting wet he was understandably sensible, building his speed up over the day. I on the other hand know the place well and was happy to drift around like a loon.
The car was faultless all day, the low temperatures certainly help brakes and fluids. I'm finally happy with the effectiveness of the cooling system, the highest water temps I got to were 210F, with the oil at 260F after a particularly enthusiastic session. The combination of clean rads, sealed air gaps, bonnet vent, newish front air dam, drilled fan shroud and distilled water/Water Wetter have all contributed.
The front Z51 spring has really helped reduce roll and pitch under braking. It has induced more understeer, but nothing a touch more trail braking and heavy right foot can't overcome. I am certain this has reduced lap times, although my drifting around makes it hard to compare last years times with this.
You'll see in the first couple of minutes of the video I was having some fun with a McLaren 720S. It seriously made my car feel slow on the straights, the way it accelerated was remarkable. I had a chat to the driver afterwards, he enjoyed it too, clearly respecting the car and looking after it, he said it produces 780bhp. Having been beaten twice in sprints at Snetterton and North Weald by 720S I know that with a committed driver I'd have never got close to it.
That was the last time the car will go on track in 2020, I have some maintenance to take care of over the winter, with a few of the exhaust manifold bolts having been broken in the heads, probably for years before I bought it (C6's can be prone to this). Before damage occurs I will remove the heads and have the bolts drilled out and probably replaced with ARP studs.
All credit to myus.com they pursued a claim and refund for me, I will probably replace the rad again at some stage, meantime I had to hope that the core was ok as there was no time to order another from America. Once again I took the opportunity of the rad being out to blast compressed air through the A/C condensor, clearing out yet more stone and bugs. The adhesive on the foam insulation strips I had added to the previous radiator had melted, so this time I glued rubber weather seal to various places to seal gaps between the coolers and shroud.
I filtered and re-used much of the few month old distilled water and redline Water Wetter, topping up with more of the same, it takes ages to fill.
The day after working at Mallory Park I made the short drive to a trackday at Donington Park, on the National layout, on Monday 2nd November. This was a bit of fun, but also practice ahead of the planned day and night Time Attack round. Sadly Covid has put paid to that, so we'll have to wait until next year to compete in that. Still, that did mean I could fully enjoy the trackday without having to worry about saving the car.
I was there with car friend Ritchie and his son, bringing along his silver C6. This was his first time to Donington and with the morning starting wet he was understandably sensible, building his speed up over the day. I on the other hand know the place well and was happy to drift around like a loon.
The car was faultless all day, the low temperatures certainly help brakes and fluids. I'm finally happy with the effectiveness of the cooling system, the highest water temps I got to were 210F, with the oil at 260F after a particularly enthusiastic session. The combination of clean rads, sealed air gaps, bonnet vent, newish front air dam, drilled fan shroud and distilled water/Water Wetter have all contributed.
The front Z51 spring has really helped reduce roll and pitch under braking. It has induced more understeer, but nothing a touch more trail braking and heavy right foot can't overcome. I am certain this has reduced lap times, although my drifting around makes it hard to compare last years times with this.
You'll see in the first couple of minutes of the video I was having some fun with a McLaren 720S. It seriously made my car feel slow on the straights, the way it accelerated was remarkable. I had a chat to the driver afterwards, he enjoyed it too, clearly respecting the car and looking after it, he said it produces 780bhp. Having been beaten twice in sprints at Snetterton and North Weald by 720S I know that with a committed driver I'd have never got close to it.
That was the last time the car will go on track in 2020, I have some maintenance to take care of over the winter, with a few of the exhaust manifold bolts having been broken in the heads, probably for years before I bought it (C6's can be prone to this). Before damage occurs I will remove the heads and have the bolts drilled out and probably replaced with ARP studs.
Edited by Fishy Dave on Friday 6th November 12:46
Dave,
Managed to cut a little vid together with a bit of your motor. Nothing too exciting (by thread standards) but a bit of related Corvette action, hope you don't mind me posting on your thread.
It was a great day at Donington, great bunch on track as per the last event at Snetterton of this ilk. Very much looking forward to the next one. In fact, i'm looking forward to hopefully getting the car out much more next year and making gains! Very grateful for all your tips through the day and your patience showing me the lines early on
Ritchie
Managed to cut a little vid together with a bit of your motor. Nothing too exciting (by thread standards
) but a bit of related Corvette action, hope you don't mind me posting on your thread.It was a great day at Donington, great bunch on track as per the last event at Snetterton of this ilk. Very much looking forward to the next one. In fact, i'm looking forward to hopefully getting the car out much more next year and making gains! Very grateful for all your tips through the day and your patience showing me the lines early on
Ritchie
Hi Ritchie,
Thank you for sharing this, it's not often I get to see my own car. I agree, these private days are superb, excellent driving standards and loads of space.
A few random observations:
My LED brake lights are bright!
Wow your car sounds great, a very different noise to mine, not sure if that's the intake, headers or back boxes?
You definitely got quicker through the day, glad that following helped a bit. Working on your confidence to catch a slide will get you that bit quicker, a drift day and handling day is recommended.
Your driving is neater and tidier than mine (see point above!).
I suspect your sons next car might be rear wheel drive, he's seen the light!
Looking forward to the next one. Cheers, Dave
Thank you for sharing this, it's not often I get to see my own car.
I agree, these private days are superb, excellent driving standards and loads of space. A few random observations:
My LED brake lights are bright!
Wow your car sounds great, a very different noise to mine, not sure if that's the intake, headers or back boxes?
You definitely got quicker through the day, glad that following helped a bit. Working on your confidence to catch a slide will get you that bit quicker, a drift day and handling day is recommended.
Your driving is neater and tidier than mine (see point above!).
I suspect your sons next car might be rear wheel drive, he's seen the light!
Looking forward to the next one.
Cheers, DaveA lack of family contact over Christmas does at least gain some extra car working time.
A year or two back I changed the lifters, in the process the heads were removed and out of the car for at least a week. I cleaned them up, not noting anything odd, until I came to one of the final stages when I couldn't get all of the exhaust manifold bolts back it. I had overlooked that three of the manifold bolts had snapped, pretty much flush in the heads (two in one head and one in the other). By that stage I had torqued the heads down, new gaskets, coolant etc. so I left it as a job to do for the future.
Well, that time had come. You can see the hole where a bolt head should be under '243'. It also shows a slight gap between the manifold and the head itself that produces a chuffing sound when the engine is cold.
The questions were how to remove the snapped bolts and whether to remove the heads in order to do so? Removing the heads would make access far easier of course, but then I'd have to buy more parts having disturbed it all. I bought a 90 degree drill head, left handed drill bits, splined stud removers and a gasless mig welder kit from Machine Mart. You can never have too many tools, so even if I didn't use all of the above I know they will come in handy. My limited experience with stud removers has not ended well, so this would be a last resort. The studs themselves are small diameter, so drilling with the heads in place could end in disaster, unless the hole was dead centre. That left me with the welding option. I've only welded about three times before, with supervision, so 'with all the gear and no idea' I watched a few Youtube videos, disconnected the battery and got stuck in.
I had a quick experiment off the car, by building up spot welds on the end of a bolt. Next I moved on to doing the same on the easiest to access head.
With patience and wire brushing between each session of building up the weld I was able to hold a nut in place, joining it to the stub of weld I had created.
On the first and second attempts the weld twisted each time I tried a spanner. Third time lucky and it started to move, woo hoo.
It was out, feeling chuffed I moved on to the harder to reach studs on the drivers side.
A few hours in total and all three were out, with no damage to the heads. I was so pleased, the equipment paid for itself compared to paying for an engineering company to drill and helicoil, plus new gaskets and head bolts, not to mention time saved.
Next job on the list and the cars first upgrade for a while: new engine mounts. As far as I know the engine mounts were original and whilst they felt fine a 20% Black Friday discount was too hard to resist going for these: https://amtmotorsport.com/collections/c6-corvette/...
Because I'd stuck a whole load of alloy heat sinks and a heating pad to the sump I was slightly nervous about raising the engine. The fins held though and I was able to drop the subframe without drama, changing one mount at a time.
From above the mounts looked fine as they are covered in the alloy heat shield.
I was shocked at what I found once the mounts were out though!
They were once in one piece and fluid filled. I like to think I have a pretty good feel for my cars, how had I not noticed this?! Thankfully I don't take hump-backed bridges at speed else the engine could have made a break for it.
These are much nicer, a shame they are hidden away.
I had long decided that I would not spend any money chasing engine power, 400bhp is enough for me most of the time. I would like to improve my lap times, especially as Super Lap Scotland has announced a round at Croft in 2021, as well as at Knockhill of course. So, handling upgrades became my Christmas present to myself. To re-cap, my car's suspension is currently more or less the same as a UK spec C6, with Z51 springs, anti-roll bars and Z06 dampers. It's a nice compromise, but could still be better controlled on compressions (Duffas Dip) and crests (Avon Rise).
I contacted a number of companies, both in the States and closer to home, with my preference being Nitron. However, I couldn't make the numbers work, so opted for KW V3 to compliment the leaf springs (non coil overs), from Co-ordSport (excellent service and price). At around £1400 these are more than I have ever spent on a cars suspension but they have a good reputation, stainless bodies and are double adjustable. Very few seem to have ever fitted them in the States, anyone have any personal experience with them on a Vette?
Next up, to finish off my 2020 Black Friday spending spree I bought a full set of Borg Motorsport Delrin bushes. Another first, although I've replaced the odd bush here and there I've never replaced them all in one go. It seemd daft uprating the dampers but leave the old squidgy bushes.
It appears that in order of firmness it goes Rubber > Poly > Delrin > Steel Monoball.
Polyurethane is much cheaper, but can deform in time and squeeks unless re-greased, whilst the monoballs are harsher riding on the road and may not stand up to British levels of moisture as well?
This is the kit I chose, with Teflon impregnated Delrin: https://www.borgmotorsports.com/collections/c6part...
I'd had some excellent advice from Sam Strano so chose to buy the kit from him, with 20% BF discount and a decent exchange rate too http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbymodel.php?Model...
There are two levels to the box, one for each side of the car, with each part in a set place so no chance of confusion when fitting. These are some of the best made parts I've had the pleasure of handling, decent fitting instructions too.
I don't have a work bench (or the space for one), but knew I needed a Vise, so I bolted it to my Workmate, riding it like a horse to add some weight.
The instructions suggest removing the wishbones off the car, but the various ball joint splitters couldn't handle the size of the Corvette joints. I found that using a 2 leg bearing puller did the job in some case, in others I left the wishbones on the car and used threaded rod to drive the rubber bushes out.
I had marked each eccentric joint before removing, so the settings will be roughly similar. I will get another set up done sometime soon.
All but one bush was in good shape, this one was just starting to work its way out, due to age and track cornering forces.
Access to the rear, top adjusters will be through the boot floor, a bit disappointing the instructions don't describe this. The supplied allen key is woefully short too.
The leaf springs are also going to make adjustment at the lower part of the dampers tricky, but I'll see if I can fashion something suitable.
Everyone can appreciate a neatly finished bush
At the time of writing I have replaced all the bushes, I just need to fit the last damper and start putting it back together. I can't wait to drive it again, in a week or two probably. Here's a nice pile of old bits.
A year or two back I changed the lifters, in the process the heads were removed and out of the car for at least a week. I cleaned them up, not noting anything odd, until I came to one of the final stages when I couldn't get all of the exhaust manifold bolts back it. I had overlooked that three of the manifold bolts had snapped, pretty much flush in the heads (two in one head and one in the other). By that stage I had torqued the heads down, new gaskets, coolant etc. so I left it as a job to do for the future.
Well, that time had come. You can see the hole where a bolt head should be under '243'. It also shows a slight gap between the manifold and the head itself that produces a chuffing sound when the engine is cold.
The questions were how to remove the snapped bolts and whether to remove the heads in order to do so? Removing the heads would make access far easier of course, but then I'd have to buy more parts having disturbed it all. I bought a 90 degree drill head, left handed drill bits, splined stud removers and a gasless mig welder kit from Machine Mart. You can never have too many tools, so even if I didn't use all of the above I know they will come in handy. My limited experience with stud removers has not ended well, so this would be a last resort. The studs themselves are small diameter, so drilling with the heads in place could end in disaster, unless the hole was dead centre. That left me with the welding option. I've only welded about three times before, with supervision, so 'with all the gear and no idea' I watched a few Youtube videos, disconnected the battery and got stuck in.
I had a quick experiment off the car, by building up spot welds on the end of a bolt. Next I moved on to doing the same on the easiest to access head.
With patience and wire brushing between each session of building up the weld I was able to hold a nut in place, joining it to the stub of weld I had created.
On the first and second attempts the weld twisted each time I tried a spanner. Third time lucky and it started to move, woo hoo.
It was out, feeling chuffed I moved on to the harder to reach studs on the drivers side.
A few hours in total and all three were out, with no damage to the heads. I was so pleased, the equipment paid for itself compared to paying for an engineering company to drill and helicoil, plus new gaskets and head bolts, not to mention time saved.
Next job on the list and the cars first upgrade for a while: new engine mounts. As far as I know the engine mounts were original and whilst they felt fine a 20% Black Friday discount was too hard to resist going for these: https://amtmotorsport.com/collections/c6-corvette/...
Because I'd stuck a whole load of alloy heat sinks and a heating pad to the sump I was slightly nervous about raising the engine. The fins held though and I was able to drop the subframe without drama, changing one mount at a time.
From above the mounts looked fine as they are covered in the alloy heat shield.
I was shocked at what I found once the mounts were out though!
They were once in one piece and fluid filled. I like to think I have a pretty good feel for my cars, how had I not noticed this?! Thankfully I don't take hump-backed bridges at speed else the engine could have made a break for it.
These are much nicer, a shame they are hidden away.
I had long decided that I would not spend any money chasing engine power, 400bhp is enough for me most of the time. I would like to improve my lap times, especially as Super Lap Scotland has announced a round at Croft in 2021, as well as at Knockhill of course. So, handling upgrades became my Christmas present to myself. To re-cap, my car's suspension is currently more or less the same as a UK spec C6, with Z51 springs, anti-roll bars and Z06 dampers. It's a nice compromise, but could still be better controlled on compressions (Duffas Dip) and crests (Avon Rise).
I contacted a number of companies, both in the States and closer to home, with my preference being Nitron. However, I couldn't make the numbers work, so opted for KW V3 to compliment the leaf springs (non coil overs), from Co-ordSport (excellent service and price). At around £1400 these are more than I have ever spent on a cars suspension but they have a good reputation, stainless bodies and are double adjustable. Very few seem to have ever fitted them in the States, anyone have any personal experience with them on a Vette?
Next up, to finish off my 2020 Black Friday spending spree I bought a full set of Borg Motorsport Delrin bushes. Another first, although I've replaced the odd bush here and there I've never replaced them all in one go. It seemd daft uprating the dampers but leave the old squidgy bushes.
It appears that in order of firmness it goes Rubber > Poly > Delrin > Steel Monoball.
Polyurethane is much cheaper, but can deform in time and squeeks unless re-greased, whilst the monoballs are harsher riding on the road and may not stand up to British levels of moisture as well?
This is the kit I chose, with Teflon impregnated Delrin: https://www.borgmotorsports.com/collections/c6part...
I'd had some excellent advice from Sam Strano so chose to buy the kit from him, with 20% BF discount and a decent exchange rate too http://www.stranoparts.com/searchbymodel.php?Model...
There are two levels to the box, one for each side of the car, with each part in a set place so no chance of confusion when fitting. These are some of the best made parts I've had the pleasure of handling, decent fitting instructions too.
I don't have a work bench (or the space for one), but knew I needed a Vise, so I bolted it to my Workmate, riding it like a horse to add some weight.
The instructions suggest removing the wishbones off the car, but the various ball joint splitters couldn't handle the size of the Corvette joints. I found that using a 2 leg bearing puller did the job in some case, in others I left the wishbones on the car and used threaded rod to drive the rubber bushes out.
I had marked each eccentric joint before removing, so the settings will be roughly similar. I will get another set up done sometime soon.
All but one bush was in good shape, this one was just starting to work its way out, due to age and track cornering forces.
Access to the rear, top adjusters will be through the boot floor, a bit disappointing the instructions don't describe this. The supplied allen key is woefully short too.
The leaf springs are also going to make adjustment at the lower part of the dampers tricky, but I'll see if I can fashion something suitable.
Everyone can appreciate a neatly finished bush
At the time of writing I have replaced all the bushes, I just need to fit the last damper and start putting it back together. I can't wait to drive it again, in a week or two probably. Here's a nice pile of old bits.
Fantastic write up Dave, really enjoy reading about your work and the christmas presents you give yourself - I also admire your "get stuck in" approach, certainly paid off handsomely with those head studs. I am amazed the engine mounts were not thumping, they were tucked. Greatly appreciate you posting the how to pics for the bushes and the links to the suppliers, will be needing to do similar for mine in the near future but don't want to buy the shop manual as I am only using the C6 suspension, not the whole car. Looking forward to your review after driving, since you have such a good baseline to start from.
Some great work there, getting those studs out must of felt great regards the engine mount I had one just like that on my old e46, it suprised me too as i felt sure I would have noticed something not right, but i had no clue, only found it as was upgrading anyway.
How are you finding the new mounts? I need to put some new ones on my list at some point but not sure if i'll go standard or upgrade.
Keen to hear your thoughts on the dampers/bushes, any reason you decided against coilovers/removing the leafs?
regards the engine mount I had one just like that on my old e46, it suprised me too as i felt sure I would have noticed something not right, but i had no clue, only found it as was upgrading anyway.How are you finding the new mounts? I need to put some new ones on my list at some point but not sure if i'll go standard or upgrade.
Keen to hear your thoughts on the dampers/bushes, any reason you decided against coilovers/removing the leafs?
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