1999 Citroen Saxo VTR? The long and winding road....
Discussion
Read. I should have written 'The long and winding read', because long is what this post will be. Why? Because this little French can has been in my life since January 2005, when I met my (now) wife, Natalie. And she's known it even longer - since January 2004! You know, because that's when she bought it.
Known affectionately over the years as 'Old Reliable', because of the obvious similarities between the car and RMS Olympic (or just because it was boringly reliable), the car has largely just been a form of transport over the years. She enjoyed it enough to create a readers thread on the Saxperience forum about 670 years ago, but the car has been largely overlooked with regards to proper blogs and threads by the other (normally older or weirder) cars we've (or I've) owned.
A couple of things dawned on me the other day, though. Firstly, that I'd created a blog about a Citroen BX (I know, quelle surprise....) that am doing up (here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...) and in that blog I'd spent considerable time rabbiting on about how my Dad owned a car like it that was really important to the evolution of my life, or mankind in general blah...blah....blah.
Secondly, that I'd spent many hours of my life doing up an AX GT that had a quarter of a million miles on the clock (found here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...) and that had actually proven to be a rewarding use of time, as the results once I'd done everything I was going to do were great - it was brilliant fun to drive!
The AX moved on to pastures new a while ago, but being that the Saxo is effectively the same car underneath, I could probably find the same level of enjoyment with this, what with all that free time I have.
Moreover, as well as the BX mentioned above (or one like it), the little Saxo also has its part to play in how my life came about being where it is now, as I met my wife because of it. I used to own a Saxo Furio, which I bought brand new in 2002. I spent a fair amount of time modifying it. And breaking it, too. Here's that car:
Featured the obligatory larger wheels (to ruin the ride and handling), induction kit & large exhaust (to make the weezy little engine louder) plus a myriad of other modifications of questionable taste. More importantly, I'd purchased a Haynes Max Power Modifying manual for it, and it was that manual that my future wife-to-be contacted me to purchase, as in 2004 she'd just sold this:
.....to buy this:
Well, natural progression is Nova>Saxo, right?! The picture above is the Saxo in question, and was taken on the day she bought it in Southampton. It's a 1999 VTR model, but a mk2, which is pretty rare on a V plate (majority of V-plate cars are mk1s). The build date sits it about a month and a half after mk2 production began, and being that these things are getting rarer by the day, it's probably one of the earliest mk2 Saxos around. It was cheap (at the time) too, though it had previously been in a front end collision, and had been repaired with non-gen parts (the bonnet doesn't sit right to this day!) The front panel was also ripped up, so it's lucky it's never been towed, because that bad boy would have come straight out through the bumper! And it has required breakdown recovery in the past, too, namely because a strange issue with the fuel gauge prevents it from reading correctly. Despite being well aware of this, my wife managed to run out of fuel at least twice in it. Yeah, I know.
So, what with it being so rare and all, it's good that it remained original to this day, right? Erm.....no. You see, this is a Saxo. They get modified, and this thing has been around me since 2005. I can't leave s
t alone - I have an urge to make things more st, and then realise the error of my ways down the line. The Saxo was no exception.
The first notable mods came in July 2005. It was possible back then to purchase 'black' headlamps for the mk2 Saxo. It was also possible to peel the glass lens off the front, and paint the inside with some satin black in a rattle can purchased at Halfords (naturally):
It was also possible to lower the Saxo. 30mm; 40mm; 50mm.....the world was your oyster. "Lower it 60mm" says I. "It'll handle brilliantly!"
On standard dampers. Standard, 6 year old dampers, with 70k miles on them. No 21yr old Richard. No it won't. But the front came down anyway:
You'll notice the arse hasn't. That's because Saxos use (as is well-documented), torsion bar rear suspension. It's a clever setup, to be fair. All contained within one axle, with two independant trailing arms and an internal anti-roll bar. I don't know why they've dropped them, to be honest. The packaging, efficiency and handling was great. Low COG too.
Oh yes.....it was seized. I couldn't do it, so it went to a garage, and they couldn't do it either. So it drove around (well, my girlfriend had to drive around) with the arse of the thing sticking up. I bet she looked ridiculous to onlookers. I've no idea, but it was hiliarious!
Eventually the rear came down to match:
Some subtle side repeaters were added around this time, too. I actually like them, as they clean the lines of the black side moulding up. They're still on it to this day:
The final mod of the year was a set of Ultra-smoked rear lights:
The Saxo spent the remainder of 2005 being used to get about. Uni; a part-time job; socialising....even the odd cruise!
2006 rolled around in January, as years tend to do, and brought with it a shot in the spotlight! Chris Barrie (him of Red Dwarf and Brittas Empire fame) was running a series called 'Massive Speed'. One of the episodes was dedicated to 'Hot Rods', and with that, hot hatches. The obligitory Escorts and Golf GTIs were featured (including that silver A-plate mk1 Golf which seems to get absolutely everywhere), but with their finger on the pulse, they decided to dedicate some airtime to the hot hatch of the moment - the Saxo.
A request was put out for a standard car to be featured alongside a modified (ahem) car. A red VTR was lined up, but had to pull out last minute, and the VTR was drafted in to help.
They'd originally asked for a standard car to contrast theruined modified car, but when the Saxo arrived it was decided to try and ignore the fact it was actually lower than the modified one!
Mr Barrie doing his thing to camera. The fact he had to bend down so far to reach the bonnet made us giggle:
A top bloke, by all accounts. Rocked up in a Transit van, and paid for everyone to go for dinner later that day. Would happily engage with anybody and was genuinely enthusiastic. I've done a couple of filming events with one of my cars, and never had anything like that.
Later that year, we drove it down to Yeovil to visit the Haynes Motor Museum; a place we'd be returning to quite a few times! On the way back, we stopped by a place of interest for pics of the VTR wearing the new VTS wheels my other half had received for her birthday:
2007 was fairly uneventful. Only thing that happened of note was the cambelt change. I'd also done the clutch and replaced the radiator with a larger VTS item by this point:
The rest was driving:
In 2007, O/H was giving thoughts to moving the Saxo on. She'd had it a few years, and had a hankering for a Fiat Coupe 20v, or a Clio 172, or even a Saxo VTS (her dream was this Saxo but with a VTS engine in it, but it just wasn't realistic). Something fun, but something she could still use daily. That's when bought another silver car to accompany the Saxo!:
The decision was made to keep the Saxo instead, as it would do 40mpg with ease, and was quite reliable. The TVR was the toy, and the Saxo was the runaround.
2008 started with a decision I kinda regret imposing, but hopefully it'll pay off. I normally hate private plates, but I bought a Xsara VTR for £350, and it came with this number plate. So, I removed the plate, gave it to O/H for her birthday (thinking even if she didn't like it, it was still worth a few quid) and then sold the Xsara on for £350!
Spoiler alert!: In 2018, we're about to remove it, but that's by the by!
2008 also brought some hassle. A car driven by large numbers of chavs, attract chavs. Turns out someone felt they needed her arches more than she did:
Scum breed scum, sadly. They'll never die out.
2009 onwards to follow.
Known affectionately over the years as 'Old Reliable', because of the obvious similarities between the car and RMS Olympic (or just because it was boringly reliable), the car has largely just been a form of transport over the years. She enjoyed it enough to create a readers thread on the Saxperience forum about 670 years ago, but the car has been largely overlooked with regards to proper blogs and threads by the other (normally older or weirder) cars we've (or I've) owned.
A couple of things dawned on me the other day, though. Firstly, that I'd created a blog about a Citroen BX (I know, quelle surprise....) that am doing up (here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...) and in that blog I'd spent considerable time rabbiting on about how my Dad owned a car like it that was really important to the evolution of my life, or mankind in general blah...blah....blah.
Secondly, that I'd spent many hours of my life doing up an AX GT that had a quarter of a million miles on the clock (found here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...) and that had actually proven to be a rewarding use of time, as the results once I'd done everything I was going to do were great - it was brilliant fun to drive!
The AX moved on to pastures new a while ago, but being that the Saxo is effectively the same car underneath, I could probably find the same level of enjoyment with this, what with all that free time I have.
Moreover, as well as the BX mentioned above (or one like it), the little Saxo also has its part to play in how my life came about being where it is now, as I met my wife because of it. I used to own a Saxo Furio, which I bought brand new in 2002. I spent a fair amount of time modifying it. And breaking it, too. Here's that car:
Featured the obligatory larger wheels (to ruin the ride and handling), induction kit & large exhaust (to make the weezy little engine louder) plus a myriad of other modifications of questionable taste. More importantly, I'd purchased a Haynes Max Power Modifying manual for it, and it was that manual that my future wife-to-be contacted me to purchase, as in 2004 she'd just sold this:
.....to buy this:
Well, natural progression is Nova>Saxo, right?! The picture above is the Saxo in question, and was taken on the day she bought it in Southampton. It's a 1999 VTR model, but a mk2, which is pretty rare on a V plate (majority of V-plate cars are mk1s). The build date sits it about a month and a half after mk2 production began, and being that these things are getting rarer by the day, it's probably one of the earliest mk2 Saxos around. It was cheap (at the time) too, though it had previously been in a front end collision, and had been repaired with non-gen parts (the bonnet doesn't sit right to this day!) The front panel was also ripped up, so it's lucky it's never been towed, because that bad boy would have come straight out through the bumper! And it has required breakdown recovery in the past, too, namely because a strange issue with the fuel gauge prevents it from reading correctly. Despite being well aware of this, my wife managed to run out of fuel at least twice in it. Yeah, I know.
So, what with it being so rare and all, it's good that it remained original to this day, right? Erm.....no. You see, this is a Saxo. They get modified, and this thing has been around me since 2005. I can't leave s
t alone - I have an urge to make things more st, and then realise the error of my ways down the line. The Saxo was no exception.The first notable mods came in July 2005. It was possible back then to purchase 'black' headlamps for the mk2 Saxo. It was also possible to peel the glass lens off the front, and paint the inside with some satin black in a rattle can purchased at Halfords (naturally):
It was also possible to lower the Saxo. 30mm; 40mm; 50mm.....the world was your oyster. "Lower it 60mm" says I. "It'll handle brilliantly!"
On standard dampers. Standard, 6 year old dampers, with 70k miles on them. No 21yr old Richard. No it won't. But the front came down anyway:
You'll notice the arse hasn't. That's because Saxos use (as is well-documented), torsion bar rear suspension. It's a clever setup, to be fair. All contained within one axle, with two independant trailing arms and an internal anti-roll bar. I don't know why they've dropped them, to be honest. The packaging, efficiency and handling was great. Low COG too.
Oh yes.....it was seized. I couldn't do it, so it went to a garage, and they couldn't do it either. So it drove around (well, my girlfriend had to drive around) with the arse of the thing sticking up. I bet she looked ridiculous to onlookers. I've no idea, but it was hiliarious!
Eventually the rear came down to match:
Some subtle side repeaters were added around this time, too. I actually like them, as they clean the lines of the black side moulding up. They're still on it to this day:
The final mod of the year was a set of Ultra-smoked rear lights:
The Saxo spent the remainder of 2005 being used to get about. Uni; a part-time job; socialising....even the odd cruise!
2006 rolled around in January, as years tend to do, and brought with it a shot in the spotlight! Chris Barrie (him of Red Dwarf and Brittas Empire fame) was running a series called 'Massive Speed'. One of the episodes was dedicated to 'Hot Rods', and with that, hot hatches. The obligitory Escorts and Golf GTIs were featured (including that silver A-plate mk1 Golf which seems to get absolutely everywhere), but with their finger on the pulse, they decided to dedicate some airtime to the hot hatch of the moment - the Saxo.
A request was put out for a standard car to be featured alongside a modified (ahem) car. A red VTR was lined up, but had to pull out last minute, and the VTR was drafted in to help.
They'd originally asked for a standard car to contrast the
Mr Barrie doing his thing to camera. The fact he had to bend down so far to reach the bonnet made us giggle:
A top bloke, by all accounts. Rocked up in a Transit van, and paid for everyone to go for dinner later that day. Would happily engage with anybody and was genuinely enthusiastic. I've done a couple of filming events with one of my cars, and never had anything like that.
Later that year, we drove it down to Yeovil to visit the Haynes Motor Museum; a place we'd be returning to quite a few times! On the way back, we stopped by a place of interest for pics of the VTR wearing the new VTS wheels my other half had received for her birthday:
2007 was fairly uneventful. Only thing that happened of note was the cambelt change. I'd also done the clutch and replaced the radiator with a larger VTS item by this point:
The rest was driving:
In 2007, O/H was giving thoughts to moving the Saxo on. She'd had it a few years, and had a hankering for a Fiat Coupe 20v, or a Clio 172, or even a Saxo VTS (her dream was this Saxo but with a VTS engine in it, but it just wasn't realistic). Something fun, but something she could still use daily. That's when bought another silver car to accompany the Saxo!:
The decision was made to keep the Saxo instead, as it would do 40mpg with ease, and was quite reliable. The TVR was the toy, and the Saxo was the runaround.
2008 started with a decision I kinda regret imposing, but hopefully it'll pay off. I normally hate private plates, but I bought a Xsara VTR for £350, and it came with this number plate. So, I removed the plate, gave it to O/H for her birthday (thinking even if she didn't like it, it was still worth a few quid) and then sold the Xsara on for £350!
Spoiler alert!: In 2018, we're about to remove it, but that's by the by!
2008 also brought some hassle. A car driven by large numbers of chavs, attract chavs. Turns out someone felt they needed her arches more than she did:
Scum breed scum, sadly. They'll never die out.
2009 onwards to follow.
2009 appeared, and with it the Saxo's fortunes began to head in an alternate direction.
This is the Saxo's engine, sat on the floor in our old garage. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not in the car:
The reason for this seemingly daft turn of events was that - somewhat out of the blue - it had been replaced, by this:
The registration doth lie! Yes, a 16v VTS engine. Some months earlier, in 2008, I had purchased another Xsara to smoke around in (this time, a 1.9TD). When my requirement for an old smoker lapsed, I spotted a chap in Southampton offering to sell a mk1 VTS, or swap it for something economical. The VTS was out of MoT etc., but it was worth more than my £400 Xsara. No matter to him, as a deal was struck and the cars exchanged. I was an excited little boy that day, as I'd always wanted a VTS!
Original plan had been for me to run a VTS as a daily, and O/H to run the VTR. However, life decided to alter the plan. First, O/H fell pregnant with twins, and before long we were planning to up sticks and move town, so she could be closer to her parents. That brought about with it the opportunity to move the VTS legally, as I booked it in for an MoT near work, and then at the end of the day, drove it home......to the new house! One un-MoT'd car moved, totally legitimately! Thing is, it was still un-MoT'd, because as it turned out, the bulkhead of the VTS was made of rust.
With the twins now arrived, and the VTS residing at the new house, I had a decision to make: Fix the VTS; Sell the VTS as a project: Break the VTS.
I did a bit of research into what would be involved in converting the VTR to a VTS engine, and discovered much to my amazement that it would be pretty easy. Despite one being a mk1, and the other being a mk2, it seems the fact that the VTR was such an early mk2 meant that it still used the 'single plug' engine bay loom, as opposed to the 'three-plug' setup most mk2s have. The VTR did have the 'silver-top' engine (meaning it ran roller-rockers), but it was still only the 90bhp version, so effectively the older spec. That meant that aside from some DIY wiring for the cooling fan (the VTS used a totally different arrangement to the basic VTR version, with a variable speed controller), it was almost plug 'n play.
This was all good news, as it meant the conversion of the VTR would be unnoticeable, with regards to 'modification'. No blue crimp connectors. No soldering iron - everything looking factory and original, even down to the retaining clips for the wiring loom. In fact, the only bit I couldn't use was the resonator box for the air filter, as it was to fit a mk1, and the slam panel is in a different position. Otherwise, loom; coolant hoses; gearbox; exhaust....all original VTS. And the VTR, as a model, is a little bit lighter than a VTS, so we instantly gained a MASSIVE (probably unnoticeable) performance advantage
All was good. The Saxo went straight into service, this time with me as my daily, as Nat was using our new Mondeo ST200 as a family wagon. Straight away, I realised that all the people who over the years have tried to profess that the VTS wasn't really much quicker than a VTR, were simply saying it because they had a VTR, and couldn't afford a VTS. Or they were mental. Or both.
There was a big difference! Initial pull at lower revs was the same as the low & grunty VTR, not because the torque figures were the same in the mid-range (the VTS does make more torque, but needs winding up as per a true DOHC 4-banger), but because the VTS uses a shorter final drive, giving shorter ratios than the VTR. This allows it to pick up quickly, and then once it hits 4k rpm, it finds a second wind that is totally missing from any of the 8v variants of a TU engine I've ever driven. Also, you may remember the VTS being quoted a surprising 0-60mph time of 7.2secs by Citroen. That may have been optimistic, but it was actually timed at 7.7secs by a number of mags, which is still very quick for something with only around 118bhp. The reason was the gearing - it could do 60mph in 2nd gear (just). That meant no time-sapping second gearchange, and that meant a quick 0-60mph time. The VTR, by comparison, could only muster around 57mph in second, although it hit its rev limiter over 1000rpm before the VTS, which shows just how tall the gearing in a VTR actually is.
Anyway, the shorter ratios, combined with a greater volume of compressed flammable stuff being sucked into the cylinders meant fuel consumption increased a bit. The days of easily hitting 40mpg had gone, with the Saxo now struggling to better 32mpg in daily use. Furthermore, the VTS is supposed to run a bigger exhaust silencer, but we were still running the standard VTR one (the Piper in earlier pictures had rusted away). This meant a raspy din and more puffs on the overrun than PSA ever intended. It was a good laugh!
Was.
Was a good laugh....
You see, I did the conversion in two days. I'd booked them off work in August 2009, and allowed myself two days to complete the job. I would renew the VTS' cambelt while the engine was out, because it would be daft not to (you can see where this is going).
This two days involved removing the engine/box/loom etc. from the VTS, and wheeling it out for the scrapman. Then it involved removing the engine/box/loom etc. from the VTR, changing the belts etc. on the VTS lump, and attempting to get it in and get it running. For two days' work, it sounds a tall order. It was, to be fair, but by the end of the first day I was cooking on gas. I'd removed everything from the VTS, and had the VTR in, nearly ready to remove the engine. I downed tools around 9pm and came back the next day to remove the driveshafts and lift the engine out.
The following morning arrived, and I went to start on the shafts. Immediately I hit a problem - the offside shaft, which has a bearing halfway along to support hit in a housing on the back of the engine, was seized into the housing. I spent an hour trying to free it off. After all, I wanted to keep it for the VTS engine, as the VTS shafts were goosed (one of the things it failed the MoT on).
After the hour passed, I took my angle grinder to the shaft and cut it in half, still on the car. With better access I was able to remove the housing and shaft together, and with better access came bigger, heavier tools. Eventually the housing was freed from the shaft, and refitted to the car. A new driveshaft was sourced in Southampton (again....seemingly the hub of Saxo activities in this thread) but it meant a time-sapping 30 mile round-trip. The old driveshaft (now in two pieces) was carefully placed in the box to collect a surcharge credit. I'm just thankful he (on the counter, not the Lord Almighty) opened the box, only glancing at the shaft (which was held together by the box), before shutting it and giving me £50 back. (I felt bad afterwards as I work in parts too, but I'd had my fill that day! I wanted the £50...)
All this fart-arsing around meant that by 1pm on day 2, I still hadn't removed the VTR engine. By 2pm, however, I had. There followed more fart-arsery, and by 4pm I'd figured out the wiring mods needed for the cooling fan, and done everything into the fusebox in the cabin.
By half 5, I had an engine sitting in front of me, which ran fine. I had an engine bay ready to receive it. It should have been about 2pm at this point, but my driveshaft shenanigans had led me to overrun, and the car was needed the next day for work. A third day off was not on the cards.
I began to attempt to change the cambelt, but immediately ran into bother: The drive belt tensioner was seized up, and the adjuster rounded off. What's worse, the belt was fraying and it needed changing. I had a new belt, along with a timing belt kit, but I couldn't slacken the old one off. Eventually, I cut it off, and began to start removing the timing belt. I then found that two of the timing cover bolts were rusted into their captive nut housings. 6pm had been and gone, and I had work the next day.
I elected not to change the timing belt.
I peeled back the lip of the plastic cover enough to rotate the engine (which had done around 100k miles) enough to check the condition of the belt externally (and confirm it wasn't the original one, as they're only meant to last 80k miles, and I had no paperwork with the VTS to suggest it had been changed).
I span it over enough to find a 'Gates' logo on it, and knowing that Gates didn't supply PSA for their engines (Dayco did), coupled with the fact the belt looked OK, I continued to button what parts I had managed to loosen back up, and somehow lever a new drive belt on!
The engine went in, and the pictures above were taken. It started up, and ran fine. All dials worked, including the rev counter, which I particularly liked as the VTS one red lined at 7k, whereas the VTR one redlined at 6k rpm. That meant I could bury it into the red line, by nearly 1500rpm before hitting the limiter! (simple things...)
The Saxo VTR? (or VTR 16v) was pressed into service for my 25 mile round-daily commute. Ran fine. No problems!
You can see where this is going....
This is the Saxo's engine, sat on the floor in our old garage. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not in the car:
The reason for this seemingly daft turn of events was that - somewhat out of the blue - it had been replaced, by this:
The registration doth lie! Yes, a 16v VTS engine. Some months earlier, in 2008, I had purchased another Xsara to smoke around in (this time, a 1.9TD). When my requirement for an old smoker lapsed, I spotted a chap in Southampton offering to sell a mk1 VTS, or swap it for something economical. The VTS was out of MoT etc., but it was worth more than my £400 Xsara. No matter to him, as a deal was struck and the cars exchanged. I was an excited little boy that day, as I'd always wanted a VTS!
Original plan had been for me to run a VTS as a daily, and O/H to run the VTR. However, life decided to alter the plan. First, O/H fell pregnant with twins, and before long we were planning to up sticks and move town, so she could be closer to her parents. That brought about with it the opportunity to move the VTS legally, as I booked it in for an MoT near work, and then at the end of the day, drove it home......to the new house! One un-MoT'd car moved, totally legitimately! Thing is, it was still un-MoT'd, because as it turned out, the bulkhead of the VTS was made of rust.
With the twins now arrived, and the VTS residing at the new house, I had a decision to make: Fix the VTS; Sell the VTS as a project: Break the VTS.
I did a bit of research into what would be involved in converting the VTR to a VTS engine, and discovered much to my amazement that it would be pretty easy. Despite one being a mk1, and the other being a mk2, it seems the fact that the VTR was such an early mk2 meant that it still used the 'single plug' engine bay loom, as opposed to the 'three-plug' setup most mk2s have. The VTR did have the 'silver-top' engine (meaning it ran roller-rockers), but it was still only the 90bhp version, so effectively the older spec. That meant that aside from some DIY wiring for the cooling fan (the VTS used a totally different arrangement to the basic VTR version, with a variable speed controller), it was almost plug 'n play.
This was all good news, as it meant the conversion of the VTR would be unnoticeable, with regards to 'modification'. No blue crimp connectors. No soldering iron - everything looking factory and original, even down to the retaining clips for the wiring loom. In fact, the only bit I couldn't use was the resonator box for the air filter, as it was to fit a mk1, and the slam panel is in a different position. Otherwise, loom; coolant hoses; gearbox; exhaust....all original VTS. And the VTR, as a model, is a little bit lighter than a VTS, so we instantly gained a MASSIVE (probably unnoticeable) performance advantage
All was good. The Saxo went straight into service, this time with me as my daily, as Nat was using our new Mondeo ST200 as a family wagon. Straight away, I realised that all the people who over the years have tried to profess that the VTS wasn't really much quicker than a VTR, were simply saying it because they had a VTR, and couldn't afford a VTS. Or they were mental. Or both.
There was a big difference! Initial pull at lower revs was the same as the low & grunty VTR, not because the torque figures were the same in the mid-range (the VTS does make more torque, but needs winding up as per a true DOHC 4-banger), but because the VTS uses a shorter final drive, giving shorter ratios than the VTR. This allows it to pick up quickly, and then once it hits 4k rpm, it finds a second wind that is totally missing from any of the 8v variants of a TU engine I've ever driven. Also, you may remember the VTS being quoted a surprising 0-60mph time of 7.2secs by Citroen. That may have been optimistic, but it was actually timed at 7.7secs by a number of mags, which is still very quick for something with only around 118bhp. The reason was the gearing - it could do 60mph in 2nd gear (just). That meant no time-sapping second gearchange, and that meant a quick 0-60mph time. The VTR, by comparison, could only muster around 57mph in second, although it hit its rev limiter over 1000rpm before the VTS, which shows just how tall the gearing in a VTR actually is.
Anyway, the shorter ratios, combined with a greater volume of compressed flammable stuff being sucked into the cylinders meant fuel consumption increased a bit. The days of easily hitting 40mpg had gone, with the Saxo now struggling to better 32mpg in daily use. Furthermore, the VTS is supposed to run a bigger exhaust silencer, but we were still running the standard VTR one (the Piper in earlier pictures had rusted away). This meant a raspy din and more puffs on the overrun than PSA ever intended. It was a good laugh!
Was.
Was a good laugh....
You see, I did the conversion in two days. I'd booked them off work in August 2009, and allowed myself two days to complete the job. I would renew the VTS' cambelt while the engine was out, because it would be daft not to (you can see where this is going).
This two days involved removing the engine/box/loom etc. from the VTS, and wheeling it out for the scrapman. Then it involved removing the engine/box/loom etc. from the VTR, changing the belts etc. on the VTS lump, and attempting to get it in and get it running. For two days' work, it sounds a tall order. It was, to be fair, but by the end of the first day I was cooking on gas. I'd removed everything from the VTS, and had the VTR in, nearly ready to remove the engine. I downed tools around 9pm and came back the next day to remove the driveshafts and lift the engine out.
The following morning arrived, and I went to start on the shafts. Immediately I hit a problem - the offside shaft, which has a bearing halfway along to support hit in a housing on the back of the engine, was seized into the housing. I spent an hour trying to free it off. After all, I wanted to keep it for the VTS engine, as the VTS shafts were goosed (one of the things it failed the MoT on).
After the hour passed, I took my angle grinder to the shaft and cut it in half, still on the car. With better access I was able to remove the housing and shaft together, and with better access came bigger, heavier tools. Eventually the housing was freed from the shaft, and refitted to the car. A new driveshaft was sourced in Southampton (again....seemingly the hub of Saxo activities in this thread) but it meant a time-sapping 30 mile round-trip. The old driveshaft (now in two pieces) was carefully placed in the box to collect a surcharge credit. I'm just thankful he (on the counter, not the Lord Almighty) opened the box, only glancing at the shaft (which was held together by the box), before shutting it and giving me £50 back. (I felt bad afterwards as I work in parts too, but I'd had my fill that day! I wanted the £50...)
All this fart-arsing around meant that by 1pm on day 2, I still hadn't removed the VTR engine. By 2pm, however, I had. There followed more fart-arsery, and by 4pm I'd figured out the wiring mods needed for the cooling fan, and done everything into the fusebox in the cabin.
By half 5, I had an engine sitting in front of me, which ran fine. I had an engine bay ready to receive it. It should have been about 2pm at this point, but my driveshaft shenanigans had led me to overrun, and the car was needed the next day for work. A third day off was not on the cards.
I began to attempt to change the cambelt, but immediately ran into bother: The drive belt tensioner was seized up, and the adjuster rounded off. What's worse, the belt was fraying and it needed changing. I had a new belt, along with a timing belt kit, but I couldn't slacken the old one off. Eventually, I cut it off, and began to start removing the timing belt. I then found that two of the timing cover bolts were rusted into their captive nut housings. 6pm had been and gone, and I had work the next day.
I elected not to change the timing belt.
I peeled back the lip of the plastic cover enough to rotate the engine (which had done around 100k miles) enough to check the condition of the belt externally (and confirm it wasn't the original one, as they're only meant to last 80k miles, and I had no paperwork with the VTS to suggest it had been changed).
I span it over enough to find a 'Gates' logo on it, and knowing that Gates didn't supply PSA for their engines (Dayco did), coupled with the fact the belt looked OK, I continued to button what parts I had managed to loosen back up, and somehow lever a new drive belt on!
The engine went in, and the pictures above were taken. It started up, and ran fine. All dials worked, including the rev counter, which I particularly liked as the VTS one red lined at 7k, whereas the VTR one redlined at 6k rpm. That meant I could bury it into the red line, by nearly 1500rpm before hitting the limiter! (simple things...)
The Saxo VTR? (or VTR 16v) was pressed into service for my 25 mile round-daily commute. Ran fine. No problems!
You can see where this is going....
Edited by Kitchski on Thursday 15th November 15:11
In September 2009, about 3-4 weeks after I'd (successfully, I might add) completed the conversion, my O/H and I decided to get takeaway. The Saxo was chosen to collect the Chinese of choice, as it was low on fuel (from all the raggage and hoonz) and it made sense to top it up the night before work, rather than try and find time to do it before work, by which point I would already be running late no doubt (having had little to no sleep, too - thanks newborns).
So, at around half-past 8 in the evening, I headed out to the Shell garage up the road. I pulled up, put petrol in (that's how I go about my business in petrol stations), paid the man and got back in to drive away.
Upon approaching the exit for the forecourt, the engine suddenly died. No drama; No knocks or bangs. Just cut out like I'd switched it off.
For some reason, I had a horror flashback to 2002:
You see, my blue Furio (at top of the page) had suffered cambelt problems. With only 12k miles on the clock, the cambelt had jumped when I started the car on my driveway once. I remember having this horrible feeling come over me, as I started it, and then it suddenly cut-out. For some reason, I knew it was something bad. I started it again, and heard lots of tapping and banging, before it died totally. When cranking after that, I was only met with the high-pitched whurring that anyone with no compression has come to know and love. Citroen refused to repair it on warranty (bds) because I'd lowered the car (despite them saying that the warranty would only be invalided on associated parts by anything modified - maybe the stiffer suspension 'shocked' the cambelt into jumping off?!)
A mechanic friend ended up renewing four valves, as I didn't have the confidence to try it myself at the time. It was put back together, and went back on the road. That was December 2002 (I only bought it in September 2002, so you can see I drove around a lot!)
In 2003/4, I went to visit my dying Nan in hospital in Winchester. It was to be the last time I saw her, and I drove away from the hospital somewhat emotional. I got to a petrol station in St Cross, filled up, and went to leave. Pulled back onto main road, and approached some traffic lights. The engine died just as I rolled up. I cursed, thought nothing of it, and turned the key again. That, is when I heard that noise. The noise I remember from my driveway. The sound an engine with zero compression makes when you crank the starter (those who know, know!) I couldn't believe it! I knew the timing belt had gone again, and this time I had around 24k miles on it (I managed 36k miles in two years in that car overall!) I sat at a busy set of lights, half perched on the kerb, misty-eyed and awaiting breakdown.
It was a cool moment in a way, because a load of friends heard about my plight, and all came down in a convoy (including, in a rare un-nobheaded action, Simon (S10) I think?) Everyone perched up on the kerb behind me, causing hell and traffic and all sorts. There sat a Saxo, ground on the kerb, hazards on and loads of yoofs stood around it taking turns to take the piss out of the owner. It was a weirdly sad, yet happy time.
Anyway, my Saxo went home, and I did the valves myself this time (all 8 - double points!) Put it back together with a new tensioner (unlike before) and it never had a problem again. I think the cc probably increased slightly, what with all in the dents in the top of the piston...
So back to 2009, and I'm at the Shell garage. The VTR? cuts out, and all the above suddenly races through my head. My chest tightened, as the timing belt had been on my mind because I'd been pondering how the fk to remove it with all the rusted up bolts.
Very, very gingerly, I flipped the ignition key.
The Saxo started instantly, and ran fine. No problems. Full performance was still there (which I exploited leaving the petrol station - don't want to let the side down, do I? Saxo owners have a reputation, you know!) and the car behaved fine.
I continued my drive to get the Chinese, and headed home. Upon reached the road before ours, I negotiated a junction, and once more the car cut-out.
"fk sake" says I, realising I've now got a problem to look into before flipping the key.
No compression.
"WTF?!"
Seriously.
As coincidences go, this one was as ridiculous as it was cruel. I rang the O/H to inform her that her car had died, and that her Chinese was going cold. She contacted her Dad, who arrived to help me push it the 200m or so back to our house.
I went in, tried to force-feed myself cold Chinese, and went back out at around 10:30pm with a screwdriver. I forced the cambelt cover open (breaking the rusted screw fixing) to see if I could see anything.
Well, I saw the camshaft pulleys....no belt on them, though! You couldn't make it up.
So, less than a month after the conversion was done, and with some emergency time off arranged, I ploughed back into the Saxo and started undoing half the st I'd just done up.
The head had come off fairly easily, and thankfully no real issues working on the engine itself. Pistons were OK (TU's are tough beasts), but the aftermath was pretty easy to see:
12 bent valves. Dented pistons. Damaged valve seats. Great.
A set of 16v used valves were obtained on eBay, from a broken 106 GTi. They weren't even cleaned! I wire-brushed them, and the head. Garage was full of grit and dust, and conditions were far from ideal for such a job. I didn't lap them in, and I didn't check the guides for wear. It was going back together, and it would run how it would run. I didn't give a fk by this point. In fact, the only fk I gave was to change the water pump, as I was fked if I was leaving anything on this engine that could cause a cambelt to fail again!
That in itself was a nightmare, as the alloy pump had fused to the iron block. It came off after persuasion by chisel, but it put up a fight and took about 90mins of swearing. I remember taking this picture, to remind myself in the future how stressed out I got!:
Two other, smaller jobs I did while the head was in bits, was to renew the valve stem seals (blue smoke is not cool), and to strip, clean and re-dress the hydraulic lifters. I hate tappy engines, and one of these had got a bit noisy on certain cold starts. Being that winter was coming (way before GoT, this) I didn't want to chance it.
The engine was otherwise slapped back together, with gay abandon!
(You can see the crack in the timing belt cover where I forced it open! A cable tie holds it to this day...)
I fired it up, almost nervously. No, that's a lie - I was stting my cacks. But I didn't need to, for the Saxo immediately fired up, and ran beautifully. That was a relief, knowing I'd cut some corners during the process! However, the best was to come, as having got the Saxo back out onto the road, I found a smoother, keener revving and more urgent feeling machine! It was actually quicker! The power was less like a switch than before, and it pulled (or it felt like it pulled) right up to the limiter! There's a chance it wasn't timed quite right before, and that, potentially, I had!
So, some used valves, some damaged pistons, some worn guides and some damaged valve seats later, and I'd improved the engine! I'd recommend grenading your cambelt to any VTS owner!
Thankfully, the year that followed was 2010, and that had much less in store, drama-wise. In fact, all that really happened (other than it racking up the miles) was that I got two jobs done that I'd been meaning to do:
Firstly, I'd fitted the proper plastic fuel return hose to the tank from the engine (the VTR initially didn't have a return hose, just a pressure regulator on the tank), which replaced the temporary rubber job I'd fitted during the conversion weekend (that leaked, and constantly led the interior to reek of petrol). It meant removal of the seat and carpet, as the fuel lines are in the cabin on a Saxo (so if you're in a Saxo and the nearside catches fire, bail out quick!)
Secondly, I fitted some big brakes, from a 306 GTi-6. You know, cos bigger is better!
Results? Much bigger brakes, more unsprung weight and only marginally better stopping power. Oh, and we're now limited to 15in wheels as a minimum. Hmmmm....
2011 wasn't too bad, though we had some indications as to what the future may hold for the little French rattle-rocket:
Yeah. Lots of that. Failed the MoT on it too. bds. bds everywhere.
Seems my assumption that the Saxo would resist rust admirably was confined to just the bodywork. It's since transpired that Saxos rust like absolutes. Yay me!
That repairs I did that year weren't pretty, so they aren't shown because I didn't take any pictures of my rushed-handiwork (in case I was feeling down one day, and might tip myself over the edge having been reminded).
2012 was a year of natural disasters of biblical proportions, but in Saxo-land, it was uneventful to the point that no images of 2012 are to be found of the Saxo! It just continued to drive around and do its thing. At some point along the line, I'd removed the god-awful 60mm PI lowering springs and knackered shocks, and fitted some 35mm Eibach versions with replacement shocks. I remember that improving the car dramatically, but I can't remember when that happened. Probably before the VTS conversion in 2009.
Anyway, my late lunch-break has expired, so 2013 onwards will follow later.
Kudos if you've managed to stay awake through all this!
So, at around half-past 8 in the evening, I headed out to the Shell garage up the road. I pulled up, put petrol in (that's how I go about my business in petrol stations), paid the man and got back in to drive away.
Upon approaching the exit for the forecourt, the engine suddenly died. No drama; No knocks or bangs. Just cut out like I'd switched it off.
For some reason, I had a horror flashback to 2002:
You see, my blue Furio (at top of the page) had suffered cambelt problems. With only 12k miles on the clock, the cambelt had jumped when I started the car on my driveway once. I remember having this horrible feeling come over me, as I started it, and then it suddenly cut-out. For some reason, I knew it was something bad. I started it again, and heard lots of tapping and banging, before it died totally. When cranking after that, I was only met with the high-pitched whurring that anyone with no compression has come to know and love. Citroen refused to repair it on warranty (b
ds) because I'd lowered the car (despite them saying that the warranty would only be invalided on associated parts by anything modified - maybe the stiffer suspension 'shocked' the cambelt into jumping off?!)A mechanic friend ended up renewing four valves, as I didn't have the confidence to try it myself at the time. It was put back together, and went back on the road. That was December 2002 (I only bought it in September 2002, so you can see I drove around a lot!)
In 2003/4, I went to visit my dying Nan in hospital in Winchester. It was to be the last time I saw her, and I drove away from the hospital somewhat emotional. I got to a petrol station in St Cross, filled up, and went to leave. Pulled back onto main road, and approached some traffic lights. The engine died just as I rolled up. I cursed, thought nothing of it, and turned the key again. That, is when I heard that noise. The noise I remember from my driveway. The sound an engine with zero compression makes when you crank the starter (those who know, know!) I couldn't believe it! I knew the timing belt had gone again, and this time I had around 24k miles on it (I managed 36k miles in two years in that car overall!) I sat at a busy set of lights, half perched on the kerb, misty-eyed and awaiting breakdown.
It was a cool moment in a way, because a load of friends heard about my plight, and all came down in a convoy (including, in a rare un-nobheaded action, Simon (S10) I think?) Everyone perched up on the kerb behind me, causing hell and traffic and all sorts. There sat a Saxo, ground on the kerb, hazards on and loads of yoofs stood around it taking turns to take the piss out of the owner. It was a weirdly sad, yet happy time.
Anyway, my Saxo went home, and I did the valves myself this time (all 8 - double points!) Put it back together with a new tensioner (unlike before) and it never had a problem again. I think the cc probably increased slightly, what with all in the dents in the top of the piston...
So back to 2009, and I'm at the Shell garage. The VTR? cuts out, and all the above suddenly races through my head. My chest tightened, as the timing belt had been on my mind because I'd been pondering how the f
k to remove it with all the rusted up bolts.Very, very gingerly, I flipped the ignition key.
The Saxo started instantly, and ran fine. No problems. Full performance was still there (which I exploited leaving the petrol station - don't want to let the side down, do I? Saxo owners have a reputation, you know!) and the car behaved fine.
I continued my drive to get the Chinese, and headed home. Upon reached the road before ours, I negotiated a junction, and once more the car cut-out.
"f
k sake" says I, realising I've now got a problem to look into before flipping the key.No compression.
"WTF?!"
Seriously.
As coincidences go, this one was as ridiculous as it was cruel. I rang the O/H to inform her that her car had died, and that her Chinese was going cold. She contacted her Dad, who arrived to help me push it the 200m or so back to our house.
I went in, tried to force-feed myself cold Chinese, and went back out at around 10:30pm with a screwdriver. I forced the cambelt cover open (breaking the rusted screw fixing) to see if I could see anything.
Well, I saw the camshaft pulleys....no belt on them, though! You couldn't make it up.
So, less than a month after the conversion was done, and with some emergency time off arranged, I ploughed back into the Saxo and started undoing half the s
t I'd just done up.The head had come off fairly easily, and thankfully no real issues working on the engine itself. Pistons were OK (TU's are tough beasts), but the aftermath was pretty easy to see:
12 bent valves. Dented pistons. Damaged valve seats. Great.
A set of 16v used valves were obtained on eBay, from a broken 106 GTi. They weren't even cleaned! I wire-brushed them, and the head. Garage was full of grit and dust, and conditions were far from ideal for such a job. I didn't lap them in, and I didn't check the guides for wear. It was going back together, and it would run how it would run. I didn't give a f
k by this point. In fact, the only fk I gave was to change the water pump, as I was fked if I was leaving anything on this engine that could cause a cambelt to fail again! That in itself was a nightmare, as the alloy pump had fused to the iron block. It came off after persuasion by chisel, but it put up a fight and took about 90mins of swearing. I remember taking this picture, to remind myself in the future how stressed out I got!:
Two other, smaller jobs I did while the head was in bits, was to renew the valve stem seals (blue smoke is not cool), and to strip, clean and re-dress the hydraulic lifters. I hate tappy engines, and one of these had got a bit noisy on certain cold starts. Being that winter was coming (way before GoT, this) I didn't want to chance it.
The engine was otherwise slapped back together, with gay abandon!
(You can see the crack in the timing belt cover where I forced it open! A cable tie holds it to this day...)
I fired it up, almost nervously. No, that's a lie - I was s
tting my cacks. But I didn't need to, for the Saxo immediately fired up, and ran beautifully. That was a relief, knowing I'd cut some corners during the process! However, the best was to come, as having got the Saxo back out onto the road, I found a smoother, keener revving and more urgent feeling machine! It was actually quicker! The power was less like a switch than before, and it pulled (or it felt like it pulled) right up to the limiter! There's a chance it wasn't timed quite right before, and that, potentially, I had!So, some used valves, some damaged pistons, some worn guides and some damaged valve seats later, and I'd improved the engine! I'd recommend grenading your cambelt to any VTS owner!
Thankfully, the year that followed was 2010, and that had much less in store, drama-wise. In fact, all that really happened (other than it racking up the miles) was that I got two jobs done that I'd been meaning to do:
Firstly, I'd fitted the proper plastic fuel return hose to the tank from the engine (the VTR initially didn't have a return hose, just a pressure regulator on the tank), which replaced the temporary rubber job I'd fitted during the conversion weekend (that leaked, and constantly led the interior to reek of petrol). It meant removal of the seat and carpet, as the fuel lines are in the cabin on a Saxo (so if you're in a Saxo and the nearside catches fire, bail out quick!)
Secondly, I fitted some big brakes, from a 306 GTi-6. You know, cos bigger is better!
Results? Much bigger brakes, more unsprung weight and only marginally better stopping power. Oh, and we're now limited to 15in wheels as a minimum. Hmmmm....
2011 wasn't too bad, though we had some indications as to what the future may hold for the little French rattle-rocket:
Yeah. Lots of that. Failed the MoT on it too. b
ds. bds everywhere.Seems my assumption that the Saxo would resist rust admirably was confined to just the bodywork. It's since transpired that Saxos rust like absolute
s. Yay me!That repairs I did that year weren't pretty, so they aren't shown because I didn't take any pictures of my rushed-handiwork (in case I was feeling down one day, and might tip myself over the edge having been reminded).
2012 was a year of natural disasters of biblical proportions, but in Saxo-land, it was uneventful to the point that no images of 2012 are to be found of the Saxo! It just continued to drive around and do its thing. At some point along the line, I'd removed the god-awful 60mm PI lowering springs and knackered shocks, and fitted some 35mm Eibach versions with replacement shocks. I remember that improving the car dramatically, but I can't remember when that happened. Probably before the VTS conversion in 2009.
Anyway, my late lunch-break has expired, so 2013 onwards will follow later.
Kudos if you've managed to stay awake through all this!
Edited by Kitchski on Thursday 15th November 16:07
Good read another who's a fan of how you tell em here. Though I can also very much relate to this being of a similar age to you and the frenchies having a number of interesting options for a young upstart.. I never got into a VTR per se but owned a few relatives despite not actually being a huge french car fan! 205 1.6 GTI, 205 CJ, Saxo mk1 1.1, 106 Rallye (started off 1.3 then VTS'd), & C2 GT.
And I can remember saxo/106 editions like the west coast and quicksilver being immensely cool to novice driver!
Looking forward to more updates.
another who's a fan of how you tell em here. Though I can also very much relate to this being of a similar age to you and the frenchies having a number of interesting options for a young upstart.. I never got into a VTR per se but owned a few relatives despite not actually being a huge french car fan! 205 1.6 GTI, 205 CJ, Saxo mk1 1.1, 106 Rallye (started off 1.3 then VTS'd), & C2 GT.And I can remember saxo/106 editions like the west coast and quicksilver being immensely cool to novice driver!
Looking forward to more updates.
Wow! Didn't expect the Saxo to garner so many kind comments!
Fun times ensued on that sliproad
I painted it with Hammerite as it's all I had to hand, so it'll need doing again now. I'll photo it this time!
More installments to follow! Got 2013 up to today to deal with yet, and then it'll switch to a live-running one, as it's still here.
PorkRind said:
Cool little cars, i almost got the vts instead of my polo 16v, i obviously made the wrong choice but the polo took a ragging :P.
Funny story - one of the first drives out in the Saxo post-16v treatment involved joining the motorway late one night alongside a young lad who was very keen to overtake me in his Polo GTI. Probably saw the 'VTR' plate and thought "That'll be easy!" Fun times ensued on that sliproad
C7 JFW said:
Great read - some more of this please! Definitely like the story behind it and I don't think you've done anything daft whatsoever.
Not changing the cambelt's got to be up there, though?GIYess said:
WHo doesn't know someone who owned a saxo? My brother had several all within roughly 3 years as he wrote off two in as short a time! I always thought the looked quite good though. Nice tidy looking one that. I want one.
My dad hasn't. Oh, I see what you mean...martin mrt said:
Keep the updates coming, loving this thread as it brings me back to 2004/5 when I met mini MRTs mother, she was driving a Saxo VTR and it received the same mods as this. Lowered VTS wheels etc
hashtag standard. bungz said:
Teasing all the way through that I knew there would be some bodging/welding and you didn't photo it 
great reads as always.
It wasn't bodged as such, it was just rushed while upside-down on a Saturday afternoon, with a poorly welder and gravity doing it's level best to ruin my welds! But they were awful!great reads as always.
I painted it with Hammerite as it's all I had to hand, so it'll need doing again now. I'll photo it this time!
More installments to follow! Got 2013 up to today to deal with yet, and then it'll switch to a live-running one, as it's still here.
therusterman said:
Always enjoy reading your threads Kitchski, this one more than most. There's a few lads over on detailing world who are showing much love for the saxo - may be worth a look
Ah yes, I saw a guy on Facebook linking to that the other day. He's got a few VTS', and some are ex-press cars apparently? One is the car Citroen UK used in the brochure, and he spent ages looking for the exact spot this particular image of it was taken, to recreate it.I was friends with him on FB, but I think I had a cull of people I didn't really 'know' and he went in that.
2013 continued on with no dramas, until the winter, when it ran out of MoT. The number of miles the VTR? had been covering each year was dwindling, as since taking over Southways Automotive, my daily commute amounted to around a mile 10 round trip! I had another car on the road, and so the Saxo wasn't critical, though it would be nice to keep it moving.
It first received some love in November. Originally, the VTR was available with four different seat fabrics (as opposed to the VTS' two). The first was a grey velour, with little blue flecks and plain doorcards (as fitted to the very first VTRs). Then came the grey fabric with what looked like green paint splashes all over the place, including the doorcards (the VTS also used this). Both interiors were plush, by Saxo standards.
When the mk2 Saxo was launched, Citroen took the VTR and VTS in slightly different directions. Up until this point, they'd been pretty similar; The VTS received a slightly thicker anti-roll bar on the rear, some rear headrests, an oil gauge, ABS and an optional passenger airbag. Everything else was the same.
With the mk2, it was decided to take the VTS further upmarket. Side airbags were fitted, and the seats were now covered in another typically manic 1990's French patterned velour, lifted this time from the Xsara VTS. The VTR's interior, meanwhile, received what was actually the cheapest, most bargain-basement fabric used in the poverty-spec Xsara and Xantia models. Some plastic trim was removed inside (notably the inner C-pillar trims), and - bafflingly - the ECU cover! The rear quarter cards lost their upholstery altogether, and the VTS was also now wearing the 15in 5-spoke wheels, while the VTR carried on with the 14's (which I personally love!)
(the very last VTRs had a black fabric with random triangles & spots on it, IIRC)
This mean that our VTR? was making doing with this interior, the 3rd version offered:
Anyone who's driven a Saxo will know just how poor the seats are. The driving position isn't great, though if you're short it's not too bad. The seats offer very little support, however. A common modification by Saxo owners was to fit the semi-leather/alcantara seats from a 106GTi. These were not only pleasingly more upmarket, but they were also much more comfortable and supportive. The drawback is that nearly all the sets you'd find offered for sale were ripped, and if they weren't, they were a million dollars. The other issue was that the doorcards wouldn't match particularly well, unless you managed to find a very rare set of plain grey velour cards, as used in the earliest VTRs (as the 106 also used plain grey velour).
Imagine my astonishment when I hit eBay one day and found, for £150, a set of 106 GTi seats in FULL leather. Yup, the very rare, optional full leather interior! It seems nobody else had noticed it, either, so I hit 'buy it now' immediately! They were advertised as being a bit tired, but totally usable. Only a bolster on the driver's seat really needed attention, but for the money (mint semi-leather interiors were normally around £300 at one point) I wasn't fussed.
They arrived on a pallet from the scrapyard in Dorset:
(camera phones have moved on a fair bit since then, evidently!)
Sadly, the Saxo wasn't to receive them any time soon. The MoT had been attempted, and the MoT had been refused. The Saxo was rotten
It first received some love in November. Originally, the VTR was available with four different seat fabrics (as opposed to the VTS' two). The first was a grey velour, with little blue flecks and plain doorcards (as fitted to the very first VTRs). Then came the grey fabric with what looked like green paint splashes all over the place, including the doorcards (the VTS also used this). Both interiors were plush, by Saxo standards.
When the mk2 Saxo was launched, Citroen took the VTR and VTS in slightly different directions. Up until this point, they'd been pretty similar; The VTS received a slightly thicker anti-roll bar on the rear, some rear headrests, an oil gauge, ABS and an optional passenger airbag. Everything else was the same.
With the mk2, it was decided to take the VTS further upmarket. Side airbags were fitted, and the seats were now covered in another typically manic 1990's French patterned velour, lifted this time from the Xsara VTS. The VTR's interior, meanwhile, received what was actually the cheapest, most bargain-basement fabric used in the poverty-spec Xsara and Xantia models. Some plastic trim was removed inside (notably the inner C-pillar trims), and - bafflingly - the ECU cover! The rear quarter cards lost their upholstery altogether, and the VTS was also now wearing the 15in 5-spoke wheels, while the VTR carried on with the 14's (which I personally love!)
(the very last VTRs had a black fabric with random triangles & spots on it, IIRC)
This mean that our VTR? was making doing with this interior, the 3rd version offered:
Anyone who's driven a Saxo will know just how poor the seats are. The driving position isn't great, though if you're short it's not too bad. The seats offer very little support, however. A common modification by Saxo owners was to fit the semi-leather/alcantara seats from a 106GTi. These were not only pleasingly more upmarket, but they were also much more comfortable and supportive. The drawback is that nearly all the sets you'd find offered for sale were ripped, and if they weren't, they were a million dollars. The other issue was that the doorcards wouldn't match particularly well, unless you managed to find a very rare set of plain grey velour cards, as used in the earliest VTRs (as the 106 also used plain grey velour).
Imagine my astonishment when I hit eBay one day and found, for £150, a set of 106 GTi seats in FULL leather. Yup, the very rare, optional full leather interior! It seems nobody else had noticed it, either, so I hit 'buy it now' immediately! They were advertised as being a bit tired, but totally usable. Only a bolster on the driver's seat really needed attention, but for the money (mint semi-leather interiors were normally around £300 at one point) I wasn't fussed.
They arrived on a pallet from the scrapyard in Dorset:
(camera phones have moved on a fair bit since then, evidently!)
Sadly, the Saxo wasn't to receive them any time soon. The MoT had been attempted, and the MoT had been refused. The Saxo was rotten
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff