Timewarp Rover 200 BRM

[poo at Paul's]

Had one from new in 1999 and let it go to a guy who is restoring it about 4 years ago. he is nearly done with it.

Bone stock except for Magnecor leads that our dealer fitted (Motobuild recommended after so many OEM failures) and the later larger ally throttle body/ butterfly, (again done by dealer), I did about 130k miles in it, all around UK and Europe, I think as far as Firenze, but used to do Stutgart, and Switzerland regularly, (like every few weeks) in one go, no problem at all. All weathers too. I ran 14 inch steelies with winter tyres and with the LSD, it was just like an F2 rally car, ridiculously fast in snow and ice, about 30% lighter than most of the VW audi stuff of the day. 75mph in second, no problem. 140mph on the autobahns really surprised people.

Best car I ever owned...? Probably... great fun, great on track, rare, great to drive, mine was amazingly reliable, and even at 130k miles and 16 years old, it was on it's original suspension, bushes, rack, rad, even downpipe! I did HG at 80k before it went with the LR version and it never missed a beat. Just never cost a penny really to run. Compared to my GTI golf that replaced it, it was buttons to keep going and more fun too.

Cracking example OP;

[itcaptainslow]

AshD said:

itcaptainslow said:

AshD said:

Itcaptainslow - i think i may have seen you a couple of months ago. I’m only a few miles up the road from you in Bedfordshire and waved at the driver from my Up Gti and the driver (you?) waved back noting my appreciation of your steer.

Of course there could be another one in the area.

(Also got a slight soft spot for Rover’s having had a 620, 620Ti and a v6 75 in the past along with an S1 Elise 135)

I remember it-near Shefford! I do also remember thinking “Ooooh, Up GTI!” (my girlfriend has one) so I was as much showing appreciation for your car too

That’s right! Roundabout on the A507 just by the Esso / Tesco Express. I live in Shefford. Does your girfriend have a white Up Gti? I have seen one in Shefford and heading into Hitchin.

Definitely lusting after your BRM - enjoy!

No-a silver one. And yes, Tesco roundabout (parents used to live in Meppershall)

[itcaptainslow]

Mr Whippy said:

Wow, interesting car to find in such condition.

I always liked the look of these in the day and they’ve aged well on the outside!

Those seats though, surely as part of the package they’re the weak link when properly using the car?
Considering special diff, gearbox and suspension etc, something a bit more racey would have been expected?

I wonder why anyone would store such a car for so long though. It’s got to be rare to find such a car?

You do tend to hang onto the steering wheel when cornering hard! The Vi seats worked better in that respect as the centre was velour, so gripped your backside.

However, the leather in mine smells utterly delicious...

[GC8]

75mph in 2nd gear? Really?

My 944 Turbo has notoriously high gearing and it wont go anywhere near as fast as that in second gear...

[Gez79]

My now wife had a Rover 25 1.4 a long time ago and that would get to 70mph in 2nd gear!

Loving the BRM, didn't realise they had such a unique interior.

My dad was a serial Rover owner so myself and my brothers have a big soft spot for them. My brother took on my mum's first Rover 620ti for a few years and also relived our youth by getting a shoddy MG Montego turbo in the early 2000s. Lasted a few weeks before it was stolen and written off!

My dad had two triumph dolomite sprints, two Rover SD1 unfortunately just 2600's, two montego turbo's, which have led to my own addiction to fast cars, a 820 Tickford turbo and the two 620ti. Plus a number of other less glorious Rovers (All relative!).

£5K seem to be a bargain to me. Did they store with the intention of making money on it? I'm airways curious about the story behind barn finds etc. Especially on more left field choices like a Rover 200.

Edited by Gez79 on Sunday 10th February 18:55

[suffolk009]

I had one for a couple of years a while back.

My wife hated it on sight, then as she started to drive it she ended up loving it. Got some stick from friends about it (esp the interior) but they too ended up liking it.

It came with a silver pout, which is why I photographed it's backside in the photo on the way home from picking it up. I got that sprayed orange the second day I owned it.

[itcaptainslow]

suffolk009 said:

I had one for a couple of years a while back.

My wife hated it on sight, then as she started to drive it she ended up loving it. Got some stick from friends about it (esp the interior) but they too ended up liking it.

It came with a silver pout, which is why I photographed it's backside in the photo on the way home from picking it up. I got that sprayed orange the second day I owned it.

Some dealers sprayed the snout silver as they thought it was putting buyers off!

[s m]

GC8 said:

75mph in 2nd gear? Really?

My 944 Turbo has notoriously high gearing and it wont go anywhere near as fast as that in second gear...

They did do a real 64 mph @ 7k rpm in 2nd gear....plus a real 64 was an indicated 67/68 on the speedo on one test car......just need to know what size 14” tyres were being run instead of the standard fit 205/45 x16 to calculate discrepancy. Might account for a sighting of over 70 on speedo maybe

[gweaver]

The 200vi (red line 7000) and 218iS (red line 6750) were both geared to reach a real 62mph in 2nd. IIRC indicated was about 66mph.
I replaced the gearbox of my 200vi with one from a 218iS and it would reach an indicated 70mph in second.
I believe the BRM had longer gearing again.

Edit - gearbox codes & ratios:

Model	Code	1	2	3	4	5	Final
218iS	C6BS	3.167	1.842	1.308	1.033	0.765	3.938
200vi / 25 GTi	C4BS	3.167	1.842	1.308	1.033	0.765	4.200
ZR160	G4BSV	3.250	1.895	1.308	1.033	0.848	4.200
200 BRM (torsen LSD)	B6BST	2.923	1.750	1.308	1.033	0.848	3.938

Codes explained here: https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Rover_PG1_gearbox
I also have a Powertrain brochure with some engine and gearbox data if it's useful to anyone.

Edited by gweaver on Sunday 10th February 22:38

[s m]

gweaver said:

The 200vi (red line 7000) and 218iS (red line 6750) were both geared to reach a real 62mph in 2nd. IIRC indicated was about 66mph.
I replaced the gearbox of my 200vi with one from a 218iS and it would reach an indicated 70mph in second.
I believe the BRM had longer gearing again.

Yes 3.94:1 FDR instead of 4.2:1 on 200vi
Even on standard tyres you’d see 67/68 on the speedo

If we knew the 14” tyre size we could calculate the discrepancy over the 205/45x16

Edited by s m on Sunday 10th February 22:49

[gweaver]

218iS & 200vi had 15" five spoke wheels. 185/55 R15 V. 195/50 R15 V was often substituted because they were cheaper (not by me though).
IIRC 25GTi, ZR105/120 had the 16" "hairpins" wheels, ZR160 had 17" "straights".

[gweaver]

O/T, but I wish my Swift Sport had five spoke wheels like the vi!

The Swift has 15 spoke wheels and lots of little corners for brake dust to collect in - they are a bugger to clean! I've coated them with GTechniq C5 and invested in some CarPro microfibre gloves and a Halfrauds microfibre wheel brush to make life easier.

[itcaptainslow]

The 218is ‘box definitely makes for a more relaxed motorway car-I originally fitted one to the Streetwise VVC I built. 3k rpm at 70mph versus 3600ish for the ZR160 gearbox.

Can’t remember what the BRM is like on the motorway, I wasn’t on there for long before it broke down...

[suffolk009]

itcaptainslow said:

Some dealers sprayed the snout silver as they thought it was putting buyers off!

My favourite local mechanic (looks after all my cars now) was an apprentice at a Rover garage at the time. They did just that to the orange - some others painted them green to match. Apparently they had a BRM "forced" upon them. Most delaerships took an age to sell them, so they let the cars be used as the shop runaround. 18 years old kids then (not unsurprisingly) wrapped them around lamposts and put them in ditches at an alarming rate. This gave them a wildly distorted record with the insurers and premiums went up accordingly*.

• so I am told.

[chrismc1977]

I wonder if the shorter fd swaps in to the BRM LSD box?

Easy & cheapish Performance boost if so, and very much under the radar

[J4CKO]

chrismc1977 said:

I wonder if the shorter fd swaps in to the BRM LSD box?

Easy & cheapish Performance boost if so, and very much under the radar

Is it a performance boost though ? You dont have any more power.

It was chosen specifically as a package and works well on the road, shorter diff ratios tend to mean you accelerate marginally more quickly in gear but change more often and end up with more revs on the motorway, remember going in an Escort with a 2 litre Pinto but it had a 1.3 diff which apparently made it super fast, it did seem quick but inappropriate for the engine.

[itcaptainslow]

J4CKO said:

chrismc1977 said:

I wonder if the shorter fd swaps in to the BRM LSD box?

Easy & cheapish Performance boost if so, and very much under the radar

Is it a performance boost though ? You dont have any more power.

It was chosen specifically as a package and works well on the road, shorter diff ratios tend to mean you accelerate marginally more quickly in gear but change more often and end up with more revs on the motorway, remember going in an Escort with a 2 litre Pinto but it had a 1.3 diff which apparently made it super fast, it did seem quick but inappropriate for the engine.

It’s a lot nicer with the longer gearbox to be honest! The VVC is a lovely engine to rev out and the gearshift so nice it’s not a chore working it-quite the opposite in fact. It’s refreshing to have to work a little harder than modern stuff to extract the performance.

[GC8]

s m said:

GC8 said:

75mph in 2nd gear? Really?

My 944 Turbo has notoriously high gearing and it wont go anywhere near as fast as that in second gear...

They did do a real 64 mph @ 7k rpm in 2nd gear....plus a real 64 was an indicated 67/68 on the speedo on one test car......just need to know what size 14” tyres were being run instead of the standard fit 205/45 x16 to calculate discrepancy. Might account for a sighting of over 70 on speedo maybe

Off topic: would they be 45s and not 50s? I’d have expected the latter as they’d be lower.

64mph is perfectly reasonable.

[s m]

GC8 said:

s m said:

GC8 said:

75mph in 2nd gear? Really?

My 944 Turbo has notoriously high gearing and it wont go anywhere near as fast as that in second gear...

They did do a real 64 mph @ 7k rpm in 2nd gear....plus a real 64 was an indicated 67/68 on the speedo on one test car......just need to know what size 14” tyres were being run instead of the standard fit 205/45 x16 to calculate discrepancy. Might account for a sighting of over 70 on speedo maybe

Off topic: would they be 45s and not 50s? I’d have expected the latter as they’d be lower.

64mph is perfectly reasonable.

205/45 16 Dunlop SP were OEM fitment on the Autocar test car
Flat out at 7k rpm and it was showing an indicated 67-ish

Obviously depending what winter tyre size was used it could affect that by a few mph

Add in speedo swing, slight discrepancies and parallax you could ‘see’ over 70 indicated. Just guessing though!

[itcaptainslow]

suffolk009 said:

itcaptainslow said:

Some dealers sprayed the snout silver as they thought it was putting buyers off!

My favourite local mechanic (looks after all my cars now) was an apprentice at a Rover garage at the time. They did just that to the orange - some others painted them green to match. Apparently they had a BRM "forced" upon them. Most delaerships took an age to sell them, so they let the cars be used as the shop runaround. 18 years old kids then (not unsurprisingly) wrapped them around lamposts and put them in ditches at an alarming rate. This gave them a wildly distorted record with the insurers and premiums went up accordingly*.

• so I am told.

I love stories like this. Looking at the old Longbridge worker Facebook page (free to access and they welcome enthusiasts) it’s full of them. It’s where I read the cars were built in a week of night shifts.