Mercedes W124 E300D estate - progress, or not...
Discussion
Fantastic - thanks. I'll look to either get that panel on its own, or perhaps look to get the complete run of plastics across the base of the windscreen from a breaker car - the grille panels around the wiper are held in with weird fixings and aren't in the best shape.
The drain funnels themselves are fine, thankfully. Or they seem to be - I poked them with strimmer cable a while back, and water did flow through them.
Good call on the bonnet catch - I hadn't thought of that. Might leave it to my Man the next time the car is in. Thanks again!
The drain funnels themselves are fine, thankfully. Or they seem to be - I poked them with strimmer cable a while back, and water did flow through them.
Good call on the bonnet catch - I hadn't thought of that. Might leave it to my Man the next time the car is in. Thanks again!
...and that's (yet) another thing: should my coolant container (expansion tank?) be connected to an overflow tank in the wing? The port just underneath the cap on the main container has a hose that goes nowhere. I'm wondering whether that may be a contributor to what seems like gradual coolant loss.
Is your car a 6-cylinder? I've heard (okay, the internet says) that the 6- and 8-cylinder cars have the catch bottle inside the RH front wing. And mine quite possibly has, but the main tank has the wrong hose on the outlet, and it goes nowhere. It might be that I just need to get a meter of 5/16ths hose and route it down to the catch bottle, but I won't know until I've taken the wheel & arch liner off. I've ordered a secondhand bottle via ebay, so I'll have one if I need it. Just need to get some hose, but I may well attempt while changing out the main expansion tank and the hose from there to the radiator, because it's looking quite grim.
On yet another topic, does anyone have the spec for the sump plug crush washer? I'm looking to take advantage of ECP's 37% discount today. The oil hasn't been changed while I've had the car (5,000 miles now), and probably not for a couple of years.
I've started walleting the receipts that came with the car, which makes a change from creating my own. Had to buy some more plastic wallets, because 50 wasn't enough even when double-stacked. The owner before me had the car from 2005 to early 2019 and there are lots of bills from 2007 particularly (none I've seen are as high as mine, though...). I've got some invoices from ~2002 where the car was worked on in Germany - I haven't yet had time to look at them in detail, or figure out what they were for, but it's interesting to know that a former owner was getting work done abroad and the car was seemingly a regular visitor to Europe.
On yet another topic, does anyone have the spec for the sump plug crush washer? I'm looking to take advantage of ECP's 37% discount today. The oil hasn't been changed while I've had the car (5,000 miles now), and probably not for a couple of years.
I've started walleting the receipts that came with the car, which makes a change from creating my own. Had to buy some more plastic wallets, because 50 wasn't enough even when double-stacked. The owner before me had the car from 2005 to early 2019 and there are lots of bills from 2007 particularly (none I've seen are as high as mine, though...). I've got some invoices from ~2002 where the car was worked on in Germany - I haven't yet had time to look at them in detail, or figure out what they were for, but it's interesting to know that a former owner was getting work done abroad and the car was seemingly a regular visitor to Europe.
My car’s a M104 engined E320; there is a charcoal catch canister beneath the wing but that’s for petrol vapour. The expansion tank is certainly the last link in the coolant chain, once the coolant is expelled it’s free!
The Mann oil filter does come with a copper washer, but I’ve yet to use one as I use an oil extractor - I just pop them in a bag of assorted copper washers bought from eBay as “one day they’ll be of use” - probably when I get around to putting the engine back in!
The Mann oil filter does come with a copper washer, but I’ve yet to use one as I use an oil extractor - I just pop them in a bag of assorted copper washers bought from eBay as “one day they’ll be of use” - probably when I get around to putting the engine back in!
I bought a little box of 100 Wurth copper washers for the sump plug for less than £10. I’ll try to find the Wurth part number. It surprises me how man I’ve used but I probably do 18 oil changes each year across the fleet and the E300 uses two (the other being atop the oil filter housing).
As you'll have noticed, progress (or even activity) on this car comes in fits and spurts (ooh-er), and after several weeks of relatively little going on, the last couple of weeks have seen extensive use again. ~800 miles since picking up from Sileck ten days ago.
So, other stuff that's going on:
- I suspect the passenger front door has a water leak inside the door . I was sitting in the car in heavy rain, and there was a clear dripping noise that sounded like it was inside the door card. Hmm. I assume that'd have to be the outside window seal (which doesn't wipe the water off the glass in any case, so presumably has shrunk over the years). Not sure on part number or source - yet - but it'll have to be added to the list. Probably all of them.
- I've been reading through r129sl's 124 thread again, and I'm now puzzled by the whole coolant situation. To be clear, I'm initially talking about the container with the 'radiator' cap on it. The coolant level drops, and I've verified after the latest run that fluid has come out of the hose that attaches just below the rad cap. Now, my understanding was that that hose was supposed to go from that container down to another container tucked inside the outer wing, and Science would then syphon back the excess into the main expansion container (if that's what it's called) when the car cools. But.... My car has an orange translucent hose that goes nowhere, and r129sl's car also has an orange hose (can't see where it goes, but it doesn't look like it loops back to the inner wing area). So I don't know whether our OM606-equipped cars just drain out from that main container, or whether I should plumb to the hidden catch can that the parts diagram says I have. What is the case is that I'm losing coolant from that line, and it's not even like the level was high - it was at about the middle join before setting off on the 260-mile round trip. I'm puzzled.
- Latvian seller of the bonnet rubber/foam trim job has mailed to say that they'd already sold the item in their shop, so has to refund me. Very frustrating, given I snapped it up as soon as it was listed on ebay 2 weeks after they sold it.
- I may have to go to the States next month, which ironically is the same week as I have Royal Albert Hall tickets booked for a one-off gig I'm due to take a friend to (this is long-awaited, as I booked them in March partly to give said friend something to look forward to after a nervous breakdown), but there are two upsides: (1) Palm Beach in November; (2) I could pick up some bits while I'm over there. Thoughts, please, on stuff like outer door seals (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1099688&cc=1195534), US-spec indicator units (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=699478&cc=1195534), and so on - worth doing?
- I need to sort out the general water leak into the cabin, and also change out the centre air vent which is a bit broken and can't close off the fresh air. On the vent front, I'm unclear as to whether the vent is screwed in from both sides, necessitating removal of both the instrument panel and the passenger air bag. I don't want to go rootling around in there until I have something approximating a clue. And I need to change the bulb in the driver's side vent, too.
Next up (hopefully) is the propshaft bearing, which has thankfully been okay for the last 1000 miles of being babied, but does need to be changed.
So, other stuff that's going on:
- I suspect the passenger front door has a water leak inside the door . I was sitting in the car in heavy rain, and there was a clear dripping noise that sounded like it was inside the door card. Hmm. I assume that'd have to be the outside window seal (which doesn't wipe the water off the glass in any case, so presumably has shrunk over the years). Not sure on part number or source - yet - but it'll have to be added to the list. Probably all of them.
- I've been reading through r129sl's 124 thread again, and I'm now puzzled by the whole coolant situation. To be clear, I'm initially talking about the container with the 'radiator' cap on it. The coolant level drops, and I've verified after the latest run that fluid has come out of the hose that attaches just below the rad cap. Now, my understanding was that that hose was supposed to go from that container down to another container tucked inside the outer wing, and Science would then syphon back the excess into the main expansion container (if that's what it's called) when the car cools. But.... My car has an orange translucent hose that goes nowhere, and r129sl's car also has an orange hose (can't see where it goes, but it doesn't look like it loops back to the inner wing area). So I don't know whether our OM606-equipped cars just drain out from that main container, or whether I should plumb to the hidden catch can that the parts diagram says I have. What is the case is that I'm losing coolant from that line, and it's not even like the level was high - it was at about the middle join before setting off on the 260-mile round trip. I'm puzzled.
- Latvian seller of the bonnet rubber/foam trim job has mailed to say that they'd already sold the item in their shop, so has to refund me. Very frustrating, given I snapped it up as soon as it was listed on ebay 2 weeks after they sold it.
- I may have to go to the States next month, which ironically is the same week as I have Royal Albert Hall tickets booked for a one-off gig I'm due to take a friend to (this is long-awaited, as I booked them in March partly to give said friend something to look forward to after a nervous breakdown), but there are two upsides: (1) Palm Beach in November; (2) I could pick up some bits while I'm over there. Thoughts, please, on stuff like outer door seals (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1099688&cc=1195534), US-spec indicator units (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=699478&cc=1195534), and so on - worth doing?
- I need to sort out the general water leak into the cabin, and also change out the centre air vent which is a bit broken and can't close off the fresh air. On the vent front, I'm unclear as to whether the vent is screwed in from both sides, necessitating removal of both the instrument panel and the passenger air bag. I don't want to go rootling around in there until I have something approximating a clue. And I need to change the bulb in the driver's side vent, too.
Next up (hopefully) is the propshaft bearing, which has thankfully been okay for the last 1000 miles of being babied, but does need to be changed.
The coolant hose in question is open at one end. It is an overflow drain and just flows onto the ground. It can be difficult to fill this engine with coolant. My Man said he had a lot of trouble getting all the air out. It may be a good idea to fill it with one end higher than the other. It may be that your car has air in it which is working its way out, hence the dropping level.
Door seals are available from Febi for about £40 each. They're about £80 from Merc.
Door seals are available from Febi for about £40 each. They're about £80 from Merc.
Thanks, Mr r129sl. I'm still puzzled, I have to admit, as the car hasn't been drained of coolent in the time I've had it (to my knowledge) so I don't know how it could have swallowed several litres I put in, plus - from memory - top-ups it's had when the duo valve was replaced. I hope nothing is wrong, but I'm planning on changing at least some of the coolant hoses and the expansion tank in the next few months, so will keep an eye between now and then.
Door seals will probably be getting bought in the next few days. At least the front ones; from what I can tell, the rear door seals are only available from MB. They all look worse for wear, with shrinkage & simply not fitting in the right places, so I think it's worth doing them.
I've also found a seller of the window seals, albeit in Taiwan. Their ebay feedback looks okay, so I might give them a try as they're ~£90 plus taxes for all four, and pretty much unavailable anywhere else.
Next up: what's the deal with my cabin filters?! I bought what I thought were the right ones (Mann CU3822-2) and got to work.
At best, I'm incompetent.
My car's plastics have been bodged in the past and I'm not convinced the ones on the car are the right ones, but I still couldn't see filters where I was expecting them (behind the wiper, as per all the videos). My main windscreen seal is slightly bodged, I think, as it doesn't clip in all the way to the edge (or doesn't have anything to clip into - I'm leaning toward the latter, but the seal has been bodged with silicone). Plus, in all the vids the plastic cowl under the wiper is in two pieces, and the RH side is lifted away to reveal the filters - my cowl is one-piece.
I suspect I have both the wrong filters, and the wrong location. I wonder whether the RHD aspect is the difference.
But at least I have greater familiarity with that part of the car, and now know I need to unblock the passenger side drain as it's now clogged up.
Door seals will probably be getting bought in the next few days. At least the front ones; from what I can tell, the rear door seals are only available from MB. They all look worse for wear, with shrinkage & simply not fitting in the right places, so I think it's worth doing them.
I've also found a seller of the window seals, albeit in Taiwan. Their ebay feedback looks okay, so I might give them a try as they're ~£90 plus taxes for all four, and pretty much unavailable anywhere else.
Next up: what's the deal with my cabin filters?! I bought what I thought were the right ones (Mann CU3822-2) and got to work.
At best, I'm incompetent.
My car's plastics have been bodged in the past and I'm not convinced the ones on the car are the right ones, but I still couldn't see filters where I was expecting them (behind the wiper, as per all the videos). My main windscreen seal is slightly bodged, I think, as it doesn't clip in all the way to the edge (or doesn't have anything to clip into - I'm leaning toward the latter, but the seal has been bodged with silicone). Plus, in all the vids the plastic cowl under the wiper is in two pieces, and the RH side is lifted away to reveal the filters - my cowl is one-piece.
I suspect I have both the wrong filters, and the wrong location. I wonder whether the RHD aspect is the difference.
But at least I have greater familiarity with that part of the car, and now know I need to unblock the passenger side drain as it's now clogged up.
Does your car have a small section plastic channel / ridge permanently fixed onto the bottom of the windscreen - I can’t tell with all the bathroom sealant smeared there (the sealant was reserved for the engine in my car!). The rubber moulding which carries on around the wiper clips into that, and I wonder if that’s why they’ve used silicone? I’ve read somewhere of a mod to facelift cars, copying the detail in pre-facelift cars, to give a better seal but I can’t recall where or the details, but I imagine you will have trouble getting it all to sit nicely if the moulding is missing.
Mine lost coolant through the head gasket, I think that was in spring 2017 if you want to see my thread! It doesn't have to go into the oil: a weak gasket between a cylinder and a water passage will see water gradually lost through the exhaust. I noticed a bit of white smoke when really pressing on hard and sure enough the gasket was on the way out. See also Harry Metcalfe and his Espada with the mysterious disappearing coolant.
I'll confess to being the sealant-er - an attempt to resolve the water ingress that didn't work, but also an attempt to secure that end of the largest rubber moulding. I'll probably clear it off, and just stick the trim down in the corner once I've finished mucking around under there - that's how it was before, and it'll do for now.
I've got the plastic gutter on the fuse-box side incoming (although I'll need the fixings); I'm tempted to replace all the plastic, but I don't know whether what's on the car now is right for the car. The cabin filters are a complete mystery at the moment but, as my car is the same as r129sl's, I should have cabin filters. But where?
The mention of coolant in the oil is somewhat ironic - while topping up the oil a couple of weeks back, I managed to slip in a glug of coolant before I realised I was using the wrong bottle.... Oil change is planned imminently.
Head gasket is entirely possible, nay probable given the money I've thrown at this thing this year, but I'll persist for now. I would like to get a new expansion tank and associated lines, but I'm struggling to find a brand new tank (1245002049) and it seems the OM606-flavoured W124 uses its own variant of the otherwise-identical-looking generic tank.
Interestingly, the ebay listing for one in the US (where I may be going for work in a few weeks) seems to indicate that there should be an overflow tank in the wheel arch (item 10 below) - the listing is specifically for a 95 E300D so should be right, right? I'll have to have a look at some point.
Ooh - does anyone know whether I need clips, glue, fixings, or any special techniques (BF&I excepted) to change the front door seals? They should be here by the weekend, and I'd like to get them on.
As much as anything, it would be nice to consider some part of the car to be actually done!
I've got the plastic gutter on the fuse-box side incoming (although I'll need the fixings); I'm tempted to replace all the plastic, but I don't know whether what's on the car now is right for the car. The cabin filters are a complete mystery at the moment but, as my car is the same as r129sl's, I should have cabin filters. But where?
The mention of coolant in the oil is somewhat ironic - while topping up the oil a couple of weeks back, I managed to slip in a glug of coolant before I realised I was using the wrong bottle.... Oil change is planned imminently.
Head gasket is entirely possible, nay probable given the money I've thrown at this thing this year, but I'll persist for now. I would like to get a new expansion tank and associated lines, but I'm struggling to find a brand new tank (1245002049) and it seems the OM606-flavoured W124 uses its own variant of the otherwise-identical-looking generic tank.
Interestingly, the ebay listing for one in the US (where I may be going for work in a few weeks) seems to indicate that there should be an overflow tank in the wheel arch (item 10 below) - the listing is specifically for a 95 E300D so should be right, right? I'll have to have a look at some point.
Ooh - does anyone know whether I need clips, glue, fixings, or any special techniques (BF&I excepted) to change the front door seals? They should be here by the weekend, and I'd like to get them on.
As much as anything, it would be nice to consider some part of the car to be actually done!
You see that last sentence above? Ha!
New front door seals are on the car. Here's how:
One fixing holds the seal in place (aside from the seal & door design). It's on the front corner of the door, at the angle where the door upright turns to a diagonal.
Clip pulls toward the front of the door, and then toward you. At least, that's how it was on my car. Here's the clip - mine are probably original, and came out fine, although replacements are available (I have some en route from Latvia but didn't break either, so may have some spare).
Then you can pull the seal out of its channel in the door. In order to get it off, though, you'll need to disconnect the door check strap (and the door will promptly close on your head).
To do that, move the rubber cover aside, remove the circlip-type jobbie with some pliers, tap the pin upwards with a hammer then remove with pliers.
You can then get the seal the rest of the way out.
At this point, I'd suggest putting the strap pin back in again, so you don't have to keep the door open with your hand. Or your head.
Assembly is the opposite of disassembly. Ha ha.
I got hold of the Febi seals, at under £25 per side. Construction & design seems pretty much identical, and my old passenger side seal was MB stamped so likely the original. I read all sorts about washing the seals first, and using washing-up liquid as lubricant & stiction provider.
I have no clue.
What I'm finding, with both doors, is that they need more of a slam to close (makes sense) but both sides aren't staying in place at the vertical section rearward of the windows (ie in the door shuts between front and rear doors). I'm assuming it's operator error - I used washing-up liquid to help with getting the seals to locate - but I'm not sure how. Too much lube? Too much tension on that portion of the seals? Too much slack? Not a clue at the moment.
Interestingly, after taking out the sopping wet carpets before tackling the job, I gave the car a quick sponging (leftovers from washing my bike), and that didn't seem to leak into the footwells...or, at least, not straight away. I'll check in the morning.
Some good news, though: I clocked my last tankful. 55.5 litres (12ish gallons), 461 miles. 37 mpg! And that's with running the car for 2-4 mins for the first start each day I use it, to overcome the glow plug issue. Hopefully 40mpg is attainable on a run once the plugs have been fixed. Not bad for an old stager!
New front door seals are on the car. Here's how:
One fixing holds the seal in place (aside from the seal & door design). It's on the front corner of the door, at the angle where the door upright turns to a diagonal.
Clip pulls toward the front of the door, and then toward you. At least, that's how it was on my car. Here's the clip - mine are probably original, and came out fine, although replacements are available (I have some en route from Latvia but didn't break either, so may have some spare).
Then you can pull the seal out of its channel in the door. In order to get it off, though, you'll need to disconnect the door check strap (and the door will promptly close on your head).
To do that, move the rubber cover aside, remove the circlip-type jobbie with some pliers, tap the pin upwards with a hammer then remove with pliers.
You can then get the seal the rest of the way out.
At this point, I'd suggest putting the strap pin back in again, so you don't have to keep the door open with your hand. Or your head.
Assembly is the opposite of disassembly. Ha ha.
I got hold of the Febi seals, at under £25 per side. Construction & design seems pretty much identical, and my old passenger side seal was MB stamped so likely the original. I read all sorts about washing the seals first, and using washing-up liquid as lubricant & stiction provider.
I have no clue.
What I'm finding, with both doors, is that they need more of a slam to close (makes sense) but both sides aren't staying in place at the vertical section rearward of the windows (ie in the door shuts between front and rear doors). I'm assuming it's operator error - I used washing-up liquid to help with getting the seals to locate - but I'm not sure how. Too much lube? Too much tension on that portion of the seals? Too much slack? Not a clue at the moment.
Interestingly, after taking out the sopping wet carpets before tackling the job, I gave the car a quick sponging (leftovers from washing my bike), and that didn't seem to leak into the footwells...or, at least, not straight away. I'll check in the morning.
Some good news, though: I clocked my last tankful. 55.5 litres (12ish gallons), 461 miles. 37 mpg! And that's with running the car for 2-4 mins for the first start each day I use it, to overcome the glow plug issue. Hopefully 40mpg is attainable on a run once the plugs have been fixed. Not bad for an old stager!
Might be worth seeing how I get on with the seals over the next few days - I doubt I'll be able to let you know what to do, but I may well be able to tell you what not to do! It's a straightforward job, but I've done something not right.
That thankful included a couple of longer drives (not Cannes-length ones: 250 miles to Peterborough and back, 50ish to Portsmouth) plus some more local stuff. It might be that my babying the accelerator to avoid propshaft bearing thudding - it's going in next weekend for that and the plugs - offsets the few minutes idling every day.
First frost this morning: interesting to see how it gets on.
That thankful included a couple of longer drives (not Cannes-length ones: 250 miles to Peterborough and back, 50ish to Portsmouth) plus some more local stuff. It might be that my babying the accelerator to avoid propshaft bearing thudding - it's going in next weekend for that and the plugs - offsets the few minutes idling every day.
First frost this morning: interesting to see how it gets on.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff