Hold(en) my beer - Monaro, Ute and Commodore content

Hold(en) my beer - Monaro, Ute and Commodore content

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SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Monday 31st May 2021
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Made up a set of shims to 0.80mm and rechecked the valve sweep, happy with how tight and central it is.



Paired up all the shims / rockers ready to go so I don't have to faff about measuring them into sets for when I'm measuring the pushrods.

Also removed all the valve springs, again ready for measuring pushrods.



Cylinder head guy (Tony Mamo) wants to talk me through the pushrod measuring over the phone as it's pretty critical, hence all this prep work whilst we sort a time to call.

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Wednesday 2nd June 2021
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Primer coat on the sump, thinking I'll just go black for the sump instead of silver, will see what I decide.



My inverse christmas tree idea for holding the various PS lines and brake lines all tidy, need some longer M6 bolts which will arrive tomorrow. Because of the sheath on the lines I had to file one side out a bit larger, and ultimately have just decided to space them out, they'll still hold the lines tidy and stop them moving about.



Have finally run the 1/4" pipe from master cylinder to ABS module





Lines roughly in place, still covers the brake lines quite nicely, may still paint them black now that they're bent in place.


SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Thursday 3rd June 2021
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Primered some more bits.


SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
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Bits are painted now, went with silver, clearly hehe



Turns out I needed the proper springs on and the heads bolted down for measuring the pushrods, so had to put them all back on, and heads are now properly torqued down.

As before, noted all the torque values as I went in the little engine notepad. Whilst the heads were off, I also rotated the engine over and marked out TDC on the compression stroke for each cylinder on the cam gear. This was just for convenience later when the heads are on.

Also, once in to measuring pushrods, everything stays with the cylinder it was from, so I numbered all the rockers, and the cylinders just to minimise the opportunity for cock ups.



My pushrod measuring jig was a bit... Crap, so in the end clamped the caliper to the edge of a bench and it works just fine, although I may use some bits of wood to force the pushrod to line up straight with the marks, as it was still a bit fiddly and thus slow.



Rotate the engine to TDC on the compression stroke (refer to marking on cam gear wink), just to guarantee you're on the cam base circle.

Then measure the pushrods to an approx length, pop them in, and then finger snug the rockers down. You're basically just hand tightening them until you start to feel any increase in resistance, as this is where you're then either torqueing the bolt or depressing the plunger in the lifter, neither of which we want to be doing yet.

Was informed to shoot for 0.002" of lash (i.e can get a 0.002" feeler gauge between rocker tip and valve tip and it comes out with a light drag) before moving on.



If the pushrod is too long, there'll be no lash, and realistically you'll be depressing the lifter plunger down when tightening the rocker bolt. If the pushrod is too short, you'll have loads of lash (so you'll be able to 'rock' the rocker yourself). Can get a pretty good idea of when the rocker bolt is snuggled enough as it'll be just enough to stop the rocker being able to move forward / backward (so towards intake / exhaust) but it'll still be able to rock if there's lash.

Then it's just a case of rockers back off, and add / subtract some length from the pushrods and try again. And again. And again. It is fiddly as you're talking miniscule amount of movement and no doubt some user error whilst tightening etc. but eventually I got to what felt pretty right.

So next up, added the amount of lifter preload we wanted (0.038") to the length of each pushrod, and put those in.

Similar process, except you finger tight right up until there's zero lash. Once again you'll feel resistance start in the bolt, I also found backing it off and wiggling the rocker up and down as you tightened it you'd feel right as the lash disappeared as you couldn't rock it any more.

This is getting really wordy, so here's the dog sleeping in the sim racing seat. Somehow.



Anyway, at the point of zero lash, you're then starting to depress (preload) the lifter as you tighten, so you stop at zero lash, and get a short ratchet attached and angle it to 12 o'clock.

Rotate the ratchet, which will depress the plunger, then at some point you'll feel the ratchet get tight as it is no longer depressing the lifter, but torqueing the bolt (hence short ratchet so it's more obvious the increase in resistance).

Make a note of how far it was rotated from 12 o'clock.

Given the thread pitch and rocker ratio etc, there's maths involved that was left to Tony, the amount of rotation can be used to verify how much preload was applied, naturally if this matches the 0.038" (about half a turn in my case) then the pushrod length is good.

I ended up with my intake going to almost 6 o'clock, definitely past half 5, which was apparently perfect. The exhaust went all the way to 8 o'clock, so I shall be remeasuring that one. 50/50 ain't bad for my first punt!

Also, got the brake line / PS line christmas tree things cobbled together and it works nicely, you can see the lines underneath from an angle, but they're tidy and straight so I don't think I'm fussed enough to paint them.

How tidy does that look? bowtie



Can see them underneath here



So yes, engine bay looking pretty decent now, once pushrods are all measured (I have to do the above for all 8 cylinders hehe) and ordered, I'll probably look at how to mount the coil packs up behind the engine on the firewall.


SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Sunday 6th June 2021
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Pushrod lengths all measured up, time consuming but certainly got the hang of it towards the end.



Given manufacturing tolerances, I imagine we'll end up ordering something like this:

7.610 x 2
7.620 x 4
7.625 x 1
7.635 x 5
7.640 x 2
7.645 x 2

Then when they arrive, measure them all out and install them as appropriate for any variations. Will be nice and familiar with verifying how much preload is applied at least so will be a good sanity check when it comes to installing the rocker arms for the final time.

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th June 2021
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I've decided to mimic every YouTube car build type program and make a list of what I think is left.

Roughly.

Now, to start crossing things off!



It will hopefully mean I don't, for example, forget to put any brake fluid in it and roll it out of the garage into the side of the Ute or some such... hehe

In daily news, the wagon handles really nicely, obviously it'll push wide if you just barrel in and try to chuck a load of lock on, but smoothly loading it up it grips well and is very neutral, and naturally there's always torque available to steer the back around ever so slightly.

Ute needs an MOT so I shall arrange that some time soon, miss driving something I can actually hear hehe

The dog prefers riding in the cars to walking, can you tell?


SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Wednesday 16th June 2021
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Have been 'running some numbers' and I'm going to have to upgrade my fuel pump.

A DW65C is a drop in replacement but at the ~58psi the inbuilt regulator shoots for it'd apparently flow about 235 lph, which some back of a fag packet 'calculation' says would be fine for around 620hp or so.

As much as I'm shooting for 600+ but not expecting too much more, I'm not comfortable it being that close to its limit, so the next drop in step up is a DW300C (the C being compact which then is a perfect match for the stock pump) which at 58psi would flow around 295lph, taking me way up and over 750+, so given the fairly small price difference, doesn't seem worth saving £40 or so to get the smaller one 'just in case'.

The injectors I'm using are LSA injectors, rated at 56lb/hr (which is about 580cc/min or some such) so will be comfortably under 80% duty cycle for any likely power level I'm going to make, which also pleases me hehe

Given the exhaust is off, then getting to the lower bolts for the fuel tank straps (the nuts helpfully on the underside of the car given the tank is in the boot) for the tank won't be too much work, will probably pull the tank out some time soon. Will have to add it to the list...

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Thursday 17th June 2021
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SturdyHSV said:
I was in the queue for my covid vaccine so I had time on my hands hehe
smile

Very interesting updates, not read them all yet, viewed all the good pics though

Mmmm, the only thing I can see on that above list that could cause you some sleepless nights is the battery negative

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Thursday 17th June 2021
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Penelope Stopit said:
Mmmm, the only thing I can see on that above list that could cause you some sleepless nights is the battery negative
Ah this isn't really as big a problem as it sounds, simply that the existing chunky cable that grounds the battery to the chassis, the crimped on terminal has a bit of play in it, so I'd like to re-terminate the end of it to tidy it up. It was like that before doing any work and I haven't had any ground related issues, just wanted to tidy it up 'whilst in there'... hehe

Glad someone is reading anyway, has been a bit light on progress recently though as I'm sort of mentally on hold because of the pushrods being made. Silly though, should be making the most of this downtime to keep the progress ticking along.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Friday 18th June 2021
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SturdyHSV said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Mmmm, the only thing I can see on that above list that could cause you some sleepless nights is the battery negative
Ah this isn't really as big a problem as it sounds, simply that the existing chunky cable that grounds the battery to the chassis, the crimped on terminal has a bit of play in it, so I'd like to re-terminate the end of it to tidy it up. It was like that before doing any work and I haven't had any ground related issues, just wanted to tidy it up 'whilst in there'... hehe

Glad someone is reading anyway, has been a bit light on progress recently though as I'm sort of mentally on hold because of the pushrods being made. Silly though, should be making the most of this downtime to keep the progress ticking along.
smile

Keep at it, it's all very interesting

Looks like there's been plenty of visitors here but few replies at times

This one image has had 64 views and others more


Fishy Dave

1,024 posts

244 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2021
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Another lurker here, very impressed with your thoroughness, doing the job properly. smile

I think I'd have a little cry with a list that long. Anytime I have the desire for more power I just need to look at my bank balance and again at your jobs to do list, I'll instantly be content to leave the engine alone. biggrin

I Am Milk

1,067 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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One of my favourite threads on the entire forum, I just don't post much (anywhere).

Keep the updates coming please, it's a brilliant thread and your work and progress is great to see!

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Fishy Dave said:
Another lurker here, very impressed with your thoroughness, doing the job properly. smile

I think I'd have a little cry with a list that long. Anytime I have the desire for more power I just need to look at my bank balance and again at your jobs to do list, I'll instantly be content to leave the engine alone. biggrin
So far my coping mechanism for 'the list' has been to totally ignore it for about 3 weeks now hehe I think the lack of a deadline is crucial to keeping the whole process enjoyable!

Much appreciated anyway, thank you.

I Am Milk said:
One of my favourite threads on the entire forum, I just don't post much (anywhere).

Keep the updates coming please, it's a brilliant thread and your work and progress is great to see!
Many thanks as well.

Whereabouts in Beds are you? Would love a nose around the Cobra one sunny day smile

So, clutch and pushrods are ready to ship, which is likely the kick in the backside I need to get on with the dreaded list!

Here's the wagon looking clean to break up the wall of text.



There's one thing that's come up however, which I didn't think too much of at the time, but having investigated it a bit, is bad news... The lifters were pretty tight in the lifter bores. They need a smidge of clearance apparently, being as tight as they were is not good, some of them required a proper thumb shove to get them down, whereas they should slide pretty freely.

This means heads back off, and firstly give the lifters a good cleaning over (and the bores) to see if that solves it, and if not I'll need to give the bores a bit of a clearancing, which is going to be messy in terms of possible bits of metal dust, and as such gets far too risky to keep the bottom end in...

On top of that, the more I read about it, the more that really I need to deburr the bottoms of the cylinder liners to try and give the piston skirt as much chance to live a long life as possible. It's OK not to do this, but it can lead to excessive skirt wear, and so I'm now thinking if I need to take the bottom end out to safely clearance the lifter bores, I may as well also tidy up the bottoms of the liners as well...



This mentally feels like a big backwards step, especially as I felt like the engine was nearing the 'done' stage.

Realistically having now measured everything and so on, reinstalling it all isn't that much of a nuisance, all of the bolts getting undone are reuseable, so it's really just a case of getting on with it and labelling everything that comes out to ensure it goes back into the same position.

I've naturally done the subconscious weighing up of whether to just leave it, it'll probably be fiiiine, all that sort of thing, but I suppose I just don't want it lingering in the back of my mind that the lifters are grinding away at the bores, or there's an oil flow issue because of the lack of clearance etc. so my path is somewhat set...

Edited by SturdyHSV on Wednesday 23 June 11:50

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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SturdyHSV said:
There's one thing that's come up however, which I didn't think too much of at the time, but having investigated it a bit, is bad news... The lifters were pretty tight in the lifter bores. They need a smidge of clearance apparently, being as tight as they were is not good, some of them required a proper thumb shove to get them down, whereas they should slide pretty freely.

This means heads back off, and firstly give the lifters a good cleaning over (and the bores) to see if that solves it, and if not I'll need to give the bores a bit of a clearancing, which is going to be messy in terms of possible bits of metal dust, and as such gets far too risky to keep the bottom end in...
Horrible, but..................

I Am Milk

1,067 posts

203 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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SturdyHSV said:
Whereabouts in Beds are you? Would love a nose around the Cobra one sunny day smile
Between Bedford and the A1, where abouts are you?

When its back on the road and MOT'd (in a few weeks or so), I'll drop you a PM and we can compare 350s!

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Friday 25th June 2021
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I Am Milk said:
Between Bedford and the A1, where abouts are you?

When its back on the road and MOT'd (in a few weeks or so), I'll drop you a PM and we can compare 350s!
J15 of the M1, so a nice drive out, my parents are in Melchbourne and the roads around Kimbolton etc are great so happy to travel over your way a bit thumbup perhaps time to get the Ute MOT'd and taxed!

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Saturday 26th June 2021
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Have put the sump together with the new baffle and the oil cooler adapter, all new gaskets of course.





Cleaned up the intake manifold as I'm thinking of selling it to fund getting a ported version from the states, so wanted it looking it's best.



Also put the injector adapters on, as the LSA injectors are shorter than the original LS2 ones, and thus need spacing out to ensure the fuel rails bolt up nicely.



The adapter does add a little more length to the 'tube' that the injector squirts through, so perhaps not ideal in terms of spray pattern, but it's already squirting through a fairly long tube so I can't imagine it making a huge difference.

Also began disassembly, nothing to it but to do it, so off came the rocker arms. Have put nuts on the bolts just to stop them coming apart and the shims / pedestals getting mixed up now that everything is measured.


Lincsls1

3,325 posts

139 months

Saturday 26th June 2021
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SturdyHSV said:
Glad someone is reading anyway, has been a bit light on progress recently though as I'm sort of mentally on hold because of the pushrods being made. Silly though, should be making the most of this downtime to keep the progress ticking along.
Its a great thread mate, one I read with interest. Very impressive stuff, quite the undertaking. Very brave.
You can work your magic on my 5.7VXR when you've finished yours, keep you busy!laugh

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Sunday 27th June 2021
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Popped the heads off, definitely glad I bought those ARP reusable head bolts now...



The lifters weren't anywhere near as stiff in the bores as I'd remembered, I think partially the difficulty of sliding them in square meant initial entry was tough (I'm not deliberately making this pun worthy, I promise hehe), and actually most of them slid up and down pretty easily.

I will give them a clean and also run a rifle brush through the bores and check the edges for any burrs etc. once it's apart.



Obviously all numbered up in the box hehe

So will be taking the bottom end apart to take the sharp edge off the bottom of the cylinder liners. Why?

Well, this s the stock piston after 69,000 miles. This is a taller piston than the stroker ones I have in there now, but with the factory 3.622" stroke, you can see where there's still some skirt wear. LS engines get a bit of piston slap once they've got lots of miles on, and you can see how the coating on the skirt has been doing its job as the piston rocks at BDC etc.



This is because the piston is still pulled a little out of the bore at the bottom of the stroke, here's an old pic of the stock bottom end. The actual liner is slightly further in the bore so it's pulled out further than the tip of the piston skirt that visible in the picture.



So the new pistons vs old are made shorter to minimise this problem with the longer stroke, as you can see in this old picture, also the wrist pin is pushed higher up (actually into the oil ring groove) so the longer rod / stroke doesn't push the piston out the top of the bore into the cykinder head hehe



Alas with the longer stroke, the new pistons are still pulled a decent way out the bottom:



I've marked with black marker the edges, both to know where to file, bit also to give a reference point on the piston just to measure really out of curiosity.

So once it's apart, I will be basically just smoothing off the sharp machined edge of the bottom of the cylinder liner, which helps stop the liner basically scalpelling into the piston skirt over time.

It's not crucial as such, but it will prolong the longevity of the skirt and although I'm unlikely to be doing 10,000 miles a year in the car and expecting OEM lifespan, I'd like to get a good 5 years of use at least out of it, ideally 10, before I'd want to be thinking about pulling the engine out again to go more ridiculous on the upgrades or to freshen it up etc.

This post is mostly just procrastinating to delay the inevitable taking apart of the bottom end, being back to a bare block 7 months in to the build is quite some progress! At least the paint hasn't dissolved hehe

SturdyHSV

Original Poster:

10,083 posts

166 months

Sunday 27th June 2021
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All that time to build, and no time at all to take it to pieces again hehe







So what's a good tool / implement to sort of blunt off that edge? There are deburr type tools I've seen for doing the inside edge of a cylinder, presumably that's the best bet?



Edited by SturdyHSV on Sunday 27th June 18:32