Kelvinators TVR Tasmin
Discussion
With the KJet Cologne firing on all cylinders, the next step toward a WOF was to look into the brakes and why they shudder horribly.
I had noticed the shudder on the first drive when I got the car, but hoped that it was just rust on the rotors from sitting and some heavy braking might scrape it off and make it go away. Sadly not, having done some heavy braking in the car now, it still shudders and shakes its self to bits when braking. It can be felt in the pedal and the whole car sort of pulsates as it slows down.
I had originally planned to get the front rotors skimmed and see if that improved it much, but it was bad enough that I thought I should prepare for the worst, and check the runout. I like my WOF guy, so I try to pre-empt as much as possible so I don't send him rubbish that's guaranteed to fail.
To check rotor runout (rotor warping basically, the difference between flat, and the high and low points) you use a dial indicator. A dial indicator is a gauge that moves when the little pin slides in and out of the gauge body, as the item its measuring gets closer or further away from the gauge body.
A rotor should have very little runout, somewhere in the vicinity of less than 0.10mm is a good guide.
I started with my rear rotors, as these are the ones I was most worried about, as they will be an arse to replace, and cannot be skimmed on the car.
Even after some hard stops, the rotor wasn't looking great.
Mounting the dial indicator was proving to be an issue initially. It's on a magnetic base, but it's heavy and bulky. I tried mounting it to the exhaust and suspension, but it just made the dial hard to read
And then I engaged brain and mounted it to my jack as a solid base on the floor. Duh, much easier.
Zeroed the dial at the lowest point
And turned the rotor until I found the highest point. Uh. Crap.
So yes, that's that rotor completely stuffed. 0.35mm runout. I didn't even bother checking the other side, if one is bad, that's a pair ruined. I checked in a couple of spots on the disc and came back with similar results.
Hows the front then? I mounted the dial to the caliper and zeroed it
Well, it's not great. 0.19mm runout.
That's the sort of runout that could be skimmed out, except I also measured the front rotors, and found they're below minimum thickness (11.4mm) already, so cannot be skimmed.
Well damn, that sets me back a bit, both financially and time wise.
I have ordered a set of new rotors, with the fronts coming from the UK in the form of some lovely slotted and dimpled rotors, and the standard rears from Aus. I will be reusing the existing pads as they are all near new, but will give them a scuff up first.
Not what I wanted, especially with the holidays getting in the way, so looks like we will be off the road over Christmas now too.
Oh well, at least it should stop as well as it goes now. Someone will get a damn good car when I inevitably move it on.
I had noticed the shudder on the first drive when I got the car, but hoped that it was just rust on the rotors from sitting and some heavy braking might scrape it off and make it go away. Sadly not, having done some heavy braking in the car now, it still shudders and shakes its self to bits when braking. It can be felt in the pedal and the whole car sort of pulsates as it slows down.
I had originally planned to get the front rotors skimmed and see if that improved it much, but it was bad enough that I thought I should prepare for the worst, and check the runout. I like my WOF guy, so I try to pre-empt as much as possible so I don't send him rubbish that's guaranteed to fail.
To check rotor runout (rotor warping basically, the difference between flat, and the high and low points) you use a dial indicator. A dial indicator is a gauge that moves when the little pin slides in and out of the gauge body, as the item its measuring gets closer or further away from the gauge body.
A rotor should have very little runout, somewhere in the vicinity of less than 0.10mm is a good guide.
I started with my rear rotors, as these are the ones I was most worried about, as they will be an arse to replace, and cannot be skimmed on the car.
Even after some hard stops, the rotor wasn't looking great.
Mounting the dial indicator was proving to be an issue initially. It's on a magnetic base, but it's heavy and bulky. I tried mounting it to the exhaust and suspension, but it just made the dial hard to read
And then I engaged brain and mounted it to my jack as a solid base on the floor. Duh, much easier.
Zeroed the dial at the lowest point
And turned the rotor until I found the highest point. Uh. Crap.
So yes, that's that rotor completely stuffed. 0.35mm runout. I didn't even bother checking the other side, if one is bad, that's a pair ruined. I checked in a couple of spots on the disc and came back with similar results.
Hows the front then? I mounted the dial to the caliper and zeroed it
Well, it's not great. 0.19mm runout.
That's the sort of runout that could be skimmed out, except I also measured the front rotors, and found they're below minimum thickness (11.4mm) already, so cannot be skimmed.
Well damn, that sets me back a bit, both financially and time wise.
I have ordered a set of new rotors, with the fronts coming from the UK in the form of some lovely slotted and dimpled rotors, and the standard rears from Aus. I will be reusing the existing pads as they are all near new, but will give them a scuff up first.
Not what I wanted, especially with the holidays getting in the way, so looks like we will be off the road over Christmas now too.
Oh well, at least it should stop as well as it goes now. Someone will get a damn good car when I inevitably move it on.
C70R said:
marky911 said:
Fantastic work on this. Especially getting your head around that fuel injection.
Great thread.
Agreed. The car itself doesn't excite me hugely, but I absolutely love the dedication and detail.Great thread.
Thanks guys.
I know its not everyone's cuppa, it's one of those shapes that you either love or hate, but I like that its weird enough almost no one has ever seen one on the road.
My mechanic was laughing when he looked under the bonnet and saw the KJet "oh that will be trouble" he said and was curious when I said it had been rebuilt and was working like clockwork. "who did that? No one touches that sort of thing now" was what he asked and was shocked when I said I sorted it myself.
I know its not everyone's cuppa, it's one of those shapes that you either love or hate, but I like that its weird enough almost no one has ever seen one on the road.
My mechanic was laughing when he looked under the bonnet and saw the KJet "oh that will be trouble" he said and was curious when I said it had been rebuilt and was working like clockwork. "who did that? No one touches that sort of thing now" was what he asked and was shocked when I said I sorted it myself.
With the brake rotors slowly making their way to me from across the planet, I wanted to get the TVR in for a Warrant Of Fitness inspection to see if there was anything else I needed to order.
Its been a little nerve-wracking, knowing that this would be the longest trip the car has taken in about 3-4 years, and it's still only a 40km round trip. Nothing for the other two cars, but for the TVR, it seemed like half the country away.
To prepare for it I took the TVR for a backroad shakedown the other day; just a short 15km trip, but further than down the road and back I've done previously. The car ran and drove well, but did show up a couple of weak points. The rear shocks are feeling a bit tired and bouncy, and as I already knew, the brakes shudder badly.
Today was the day though, the first time I've had the car on the motorway at open road speeds, and for a longer distance. The car did well, felt comfortable enough on the open road, but the higher speeds did show up an annoying shake at about 80kph, which I suspect could be the old tyres on the car, similar to when I got Tess http://www.tasteslikepetrol.net/2017/12/rover-vite... (which had also been sitting for years). Otherwise everything was fine. The steering was nice and direct, the temps were good and steady, and the gearbox shifts well. She sure turns heads though; can't imagine why.
I made it in one piece, with the top down even, despite some light drizzle on the way in.
After waiting oh so patiently, the car was finally on the hoist and it was inspection time.
The inspection required two inspectors, since the TVR was so far out of their normal parameters (both are old enough to remember working on the donors like the XJS and Capri/Cortina but haven't touched anything like it in years), but after a while, I had my answer.
It was a fail.
Not completely unexpected, but unfortunately one thing I hadn't counted on was the front lower ball joints having excessive play in them. It's not the end of the world, they're MK4 Cortina parts, so I have a pair on the way already.
There were a couple of other advisories, such as the brakes shuddering, and the front tires starting to show signs of perishing, but overall I think its a pretty damn good list considering the car was last on the road 2015/2016. I've had worse on cars that have been already been on the road recently.
The rear rotors arrived today, and the fronts are en route from the UK currently. I'm looking into options for some new shocks to help with the bounce in the rear, and some new tyres will have to be on the list now too. It seemingly never ends, but once its done it should be a good solid car.
So yes, Merry Christmas to everyone, and I hope you all have a good break. Get out there and either work on, and/or drive your cars, and I'll be back in the new year.
Its been a little nerve-wracking, knowing that this would be the longest trip the car has taken in about 3-4 years, and it's still only a 40km round trip. Nothing for the other two cars, but for the TVR, it seemed like half the country away.
To prepare for it I took the TVR for a backroad shakedown the other day; just a short 15km trip, but further than down the road and back I've done previously. The car ran and drove well, but did show up a couple of weak points. The rear shocks are feeling a bit tired and bouncy, and as I already knew, the brakes shudder badly.
Today was the day though, the first time I've had the car on the motorway at open road speeds, and for a longer distance. The car did well, felt comfortable enough on the open road, but the higher speeds did show up an annoying shake at about 80kph, which I suspect could be the old tyres on the car, similar to when I got Tess http://www.tasteslikepetrol.net/2017/12/rover-vite... (which had also been sitting for years). Otherwise everything was fine. The steering was nice and direct, the temps were good and steady, and the gearbox shifts well. She sure turns heads though; can't imagine why.
I made it in one piece, with the top down even, despite some light drizzle on the way in.
After waiting oh so patiently, the car was finally on the hoist and it was inspection time.
The inspection required two inspectors, since the TVR was so far out of their normal parameters (both are old enough to remember working on the donors like the XJS and Capri/Cortina but haven't touched anything like it in years), but after a while, I had my answer.
It was a fail.
Not completely unexpected, but unfortunately one thing I hadn't counted on was the front lower ball joints having excessive play in them. It's not the end of the world, they're MK4 Cortina parts, so I have a pair on the way already.
There were a couple of other advisories, such as the brakes shuddering, and the front tires starting to show signs of perishing, but overall I think its a pretty damn good list considering the car was last on the road 2015/2016. I've had worse on cars that have been already been on the road recently.
The rear rotors arrived today, and the fronts are en route from the UK currently. I'm looking into options for some new shocks to help with the bounce in the rear, and some new tyres will have to be on the list now too. It seemingly never ends, but once its done it should be a good solid car.
So yes, Merry Christmas to everyone, and I hope you all have a good break. Get out there and either work on, and/or drive your cars, and I'll be back in the new year.
An awesome update and read, once again.
I have a couple of questions - firstly, how long does it normally take for items to get to NZ from the UK and is it sent by air or sea? It shipping quite costly, as a consequence?
At least new tyres will be a good addition, surely you must have already committed to this in your mind before the confirmation on the WOF?
Have a merry xmas.
Michael
I have a couple of questions - firstly, how long does it normally take for items to get to NZ from the UK and is it sent by air or sea? It shipping quite costly, as a consequence?
At least new tyres will be a good addition, surely you must have already committed to this in your mind before the confirmation on the WOF?
Have a merry xmas.
Michael
Just read from start to finish - what a great thread.
I really enjoyed the K-Jet autopsy after some similar (but much less educated) shenanigans on a Capri.
The wooden Futura wheel looked fantastic as a centrepoint (similar to later TVRs and 80s Maseratis with wooden wheels/gearknobs), but for everyday use leather looks better!
Congratulations on getting it this far, excellent save.
I really enjoyed the K-Jet autopsy after some similar (but much less educated) shenanigans on a Capri.
The wooden Futura wheel looked fantastic as a centrepoint (similar to later TVRs and 80s Maseratis with wooden wheels/gearknobs), but for everyday use leather looks better!
Congratulations on getting it this far, excellent save.
Tasmin200 said:
Well done! Good effort.
Get new tyres though. I nearly put my Tasmin in the hedge the first time it rained as the tyres were old and hard. Loads of tread left on them but no grip at all.
Take it easy, I'm sure a few other things with show up once you're driving it regularly.
Yeah, they're diabolical really. In the dry the mix of old tyres and soft rear shocks makes for some very interesting cornering. For the age of them they look good, but the rubber has gone as hard as a rock. I had planned on replacing them anyway, but its not easy to get anything decent in the correct size for the 14s in NZ. I guess new "economy" rubber is better than old hard "sporty" rubber.Get new tyres though. I nearly put my Tasmin in the hedge the first time it rained as the tyres were old and hard. Loads of tread left on them but no grip at all.
Take it easy, I'm sure a few other things with show up once you're driving it regularly.
bolidemichael said:
An awesome update and read, once again.
I have a couple of questions - firstly, how long does it normally take for items to get to NZ from the UK and is it sent by air or sea? It shipping quite costly, as a consequence?
Can vary a lot in terms of time and cost. Usually its air freight, and takes 1-2 weeks depending on which option I use and how much I want to spend. For instance, the brake rotors I just purchased from MTec are costing 90GBP just for freight and they should be here in under 2 weeks, using a forwarding agent. Most of that cost is in the weight though, being 11kg for the pair.I have a couple of questions - firstly, how long does it normally take for items to get to NZ from the UK and is it sent by air or sea? It shipping quite costly, as a consequence?
I always try to find items locally first to reduce freight costs, but we got almost no TVRs here, and some of the donor parts are uncommon here too (we didn't get the Granada and not many Cortinas or Capris around enow) so prices can be high unless you shop around and pull strings in the trade or just out of stock and coming from overseas anyway.
Brakes have arrived, as have new tyres, but still waiting on the ball joints for the WOF. In the mean time since the car hasnt been started since i drove to the WOF and back, i whipped a plug out to see how the KJet mixtures are...
Pretty damn good i'd say. Maybe a little on the lean side, but I can live with that.
Pretty damn good i'd say. Maybe a little on the lean side, but I can live with that.
Great write up, and you must be a very patient man !!
Couple of things:
I had a Classic ( the Germans refer to classics as 'Oldtimers" (!) Lotus Elan S4 SE DHC, and spent countless hours working on that car ...
The front suspension had 'grease' points on the lower 'trunions' and the accepted method ( on Lotus/Triumph Herald ) was to use gear oil, as the standard grease would dry out over time and crack etc to let corrosion set in. That was what we did but no no idea if yours are remotely like that.
The handbrake set up on the Elan was similar, and took a lot of setting up. The rear discs had a small set of pads ( Mini Cooper IIRC!) which had to be so close to the disc to work properly that they just wore out even if the handbrake was seldom used !
And the fuel filler cap/caps on your TVR look the same as Lotus used: they were Triumph Spitfire/Hillman Imp/ etc, and could be lockable/or not.
Anyway, keep up the good work and your detective skills are enviable !!
Couple of things:
I had a Classic ( the Germans refer to classics as 'Oldtimers" (!) Lotus Elan S4 SE DHC, and spent countless hours working on that car ...
The front suspension had 'grease' points on the lower 'trunions' and the accepted method ( on Lotus/Triumph Herald ) was to use gear oil, as the standard grease would dry out over time and crack etc to let corrosion set in. That was what we did but no no idea if yours are remotely like that.
The handbrake set up on the Elan was similar, and took a lot of setting up. The rear discs had a small set of pads ( Mini Cooper IIRC!) which had to be so close to the disc to work properly that they just wore out even if the handbrake was seldom used !
And the fuel filler cap/caps on your TVR look the same as Lotus used: they were Triumph Spitfire/Hillman Imp/ etc, and could be lockable/or not.
Anyway, keep up the good work and your detective skills are enviable !!
Pre-WOF-Recheck shakedown complete. Goes hard. New lower ball joints, new rear shocks, and new tyres all around. Feels a lot less like it wants to kill you now.
Recheck on Saturday, and then I should be good for some less risky motoring. Will be good to be legal for British Car Day in Feb.
Recheck on Saturday, and then I should be good for some less risky motoring. Will be good to be legal for British Car Day in Feb.
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