2020 Retailers in trouble thread

2020 Retailers in trouble thread

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jakesmith

Original Poster:

9,461 posts

170 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
After the success of the 2019 thread, it is time to inflate it's revenue figures and sell it to a PE house, lumbering it with ridiculous management charges that will see it fold within not time at all...

Time to kick off the 2020 thread and here is a great link to a BBC article on 10 retailers that have gone forever...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50834387


anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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I think the internet grim reaper has already picked most of the low hanging fruit, and the next big round of closures won't come until the next recession (which is surely in the post).

Most of Derbys shopping real estate is either clothes retailers, which people like to browse IRL or stores like HMV and Currys who have seen all their competitors go under and are the last major bricks and mortar retailers in their sectors.


WH Smith's seem to defy gravity all these years, despite being (IMHO) neither cheap nor particularly good at what they do. Almost anything you can buy at Smith's can be brought either cheaper or with more choice elsewhere.

jakesmith

Original Poster:

9,461 posts

170 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Comstock said:
I think the internet grim reaper has already picked most of the low hanging fruit, and the next big round of closures won't come until the next recession (which is surely in the post).

Most of Derbys shopping real estate is either clothes retailers, which people like to browse IRL or stores like HMV and Currys who have seen all their competitors go under and are the last major bricks and mortar retailers in their sectors.


WH Smith's seem to defy gravity all these years, despite being (IMHO) neither cheap nor particularly good at what they do. Almost anything you can buy at Smith's can be brought either cheaper or with more choice elsewhere.
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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You’re not going to buy a bar of chocolate, newspaper or biro on line though.

Smiths thrives

vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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Gourmet Burger Kitchen.

I was in Leeds Trinity yesterday.

Wagamama - busy. Yo Sushi - queuing out of the door (!) even though they only had 50% of their menu available. Carluccios - busy-ish.

GBK - dead. More staff than customers. Might be a post xmas "had too much meat" ?

kev1974

4,029 posts

128 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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Got to be time for Five Guys' magic money tree to run out surely? They had something when they were just a handful of branches but now they've opened all over the place and there's hardly anybody in them!

jtremlett

1,369 posts

221 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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Thankyou4calling said:
You’re not going to buy a bar of chocolate, newspaper or biro on line though.
Sure, but you can buy them at any number of other retailers from corner shops to supermarkets.

And newspaper sales are still falling (magazines might be doing better though, not sure)

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 3rd January 19:17

kev1974

4,029 posts

128 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.
One I went in somewhere recently was in the process of being done up, had all new lighting and they were working on the shelving. It was quite blingy and a million times better than their usual darkness. I think they have finally worked out that darkness plus shelves up to the ceiling are not inviting.

Gareth79

7,628 posts

245 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
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jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.
I think they calculated that having shabby stores doesn't "cost" them as much as maintaining them.
(the state of the stores is documented at https://twitter.com/WHS_Carpet )

jakesmith

Original Poster:

9,461 posts

170 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.
No that's the one! They have 569 High Street stores in the UK excluding Post Office & Travel and many are exactly as you described them, it doesn't mean their underlying financials aren't sound though. It comes up on this thread all the time but they are in good shape financially. They are also doing a flagship store project and rolling it out but obviously that will depend on timing, location, lease considerations and sales of the store. And that chocolate bar at the till is quite a margin driver I can assure you.

CRA1G

6,500 posts

194 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Comstock said:
And newspaper sales are still falling (magazines might be doing better though, not sure)

Edited by Comstock on Friday 3rd January 19:17
I don't know about that..... read Top shelf stuff gone.....!!!hehe

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
kev1974 said:
Got to be time for Five Guys' magic money tree to run out surely? They had something when they were just a handful of branches but now they've opened all over the place and there's hardly anybody in them!
Possibly because there's nothing worth going in for ?

jakesmith

Original Poster:

9,461 posts

170 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
kev1974 said:
Got to be time for Five Guys' magic money tree to run out surely? They had something when they were just a handful of branches but now they've opened all over the place and there's hardly anybody in them!
Possibly because there's nothing worth going in for ?
Never understood the hate for this place the food is light years ahead of McDonalds / BK and a million times less s in there and it's not that much more expensive

Downward

3,490 posts

102 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.
No that's the one! They have 569 High Street stores in the UK excluding Post Office & Travel and many are exactly as you described them, it doesn't mean their underlying financials aren't sound though. It comes up on this thread all the time but they are in good shape financially. They are also doing a flagship store project and rolling it out but obviously that will depend on timing, location, lease considerations and sales of the store. And that chocolate bar at the till is quite a margin driver I can assure you.
I guarantee small outlets in a hospital do more trade than a massive high street store.

iwantagta

1,323 posts

144 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
And that chocolate bar at the till is quite a margin driver I can assure you.
Chocolate is no longer offered at the till following the Hugh Fernley documentary thing.

Cheib

23,112 posts

174 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Downward said:
jakesmith said:
jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want.
No that's the one! They have 569 High Street stores in the UK excluding Post Office & Travel and many are exactly as you described them, it doesn't mean their underlying financials aren't sound though. It comes up on this thread all the time but they are in good shape financially. They are also doing a flagship store project and rolling it out but obviously that will depend on timing, location, lease considerations and sales of the store. And that chocolate bar at the till is quite a margin driver I can assure you.
I guarantee small outlets in a hospital do more trade than a massive high street store.
W H Smith’s business has two major plus points...the Travel business which is massively profitable and the distribution business. All the newspapers and magazines sold in the UK go through that...or at least used to. The latter you have to wonder about it’s longevity.

The problem they have is that the stores are probably too big for the modern business mix. Things like stationary and pens are probably awful on a revenue per sq ft basis.

bigpriest

1,577 posts

129 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
You’re not going to buy a bar of chocolate, newspaper or biro on line though.

Smiths thrives
I needed a new pen, checked on Amazon and had a new set of uniball eyes the next day. I'd do the same for chocolate / sweets to be honest.

Cheib

23,112 posts

174 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
Comstock said:
Most of Derbys shopping real estate is either clothes retailers, which people like to browse IRL or stores like HMV and Currys who have seen all their competitors go under and are the last major bricks and mortar retailers in their sectors.
Curry’s won’t go bust....it they get in trouble like they did in the last recession they will be kept afloat buy their suppliers like they were in the mid to late 2000’s. There was a stage when the group’s profits then were smaller then the volume bonuses that their suppliers pay them....e’g’ Samsung will give them a bonus for selling 100,000 TV’s or Dyson will for selling 100,000 vacuum cleaners. So without the suppliers bonuses back then they were losing money.

They’re almost a distributor rather than a retailer now...everything is sub let. Suppliers pay for the best places in the shops and also pay for website space etc. They are totally hostage to the success of their suppliers when you think about it...new iPad is a massive success its great for them....new iPad flops it’s bad for them etc.

What is bad for them is the phone business. Carphone Warehouse’s business model is pretty much dead....most people are SIM only now which isn’t something that makes them money. That merger was great for Carphone Warehouse....less great for what was Dixons.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 3rd January 2020
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
Robertj21a said:
kev1974 said:
Got to be time for Five Guys' magic money tree to run out surely? They had something when they were just a handful of branches but now they've opened all over the place and there's hardly anybody in them!
Possibly because there's nothing worth going in for ?
Never understood the hate for this place the food is light years ahead of McDonalds / BK and a million times less s in there and it's not that much more expensive
5 Guys is much more expensive.
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