The Alternative Italian Job - A Classic Mini Build
Discussion
Hello all, time for a little update (its only been 7 months).
I'll start where we left off (July 2016),
The door shuts on the Mini were the last thing to happen for quite some time. Shortly after this I bought an industrial unit, which needed quite a bit of work.
A few months after that I left my job where I had been employed for 11 years to start my own Business, my parents got their garage back (briefly, the MK1 Caddy still sits in it) and the Mini was taken to the workshop where it was lifted onto the mezzanine.
The Rotisserie I'd previously made was revisited, as the Mini was going to be sat on it for a while I decided to make it a bit more substantial so I could move it around if needs be, it was also painted.
And this is how the Mini was sat on the mezzanine while Business things happened and the "Project Mpact" Build took priority/got out of hand.
In 2020 we all know what happened, things went a bit pear shaped. A few customer vehicles/projects were either cancelled, rescheduled or just never turned up.
During one of the lockdowns (cant remember which) I found a bit of time to tinker with the Mini again, four years after last touching it it was lifted down from the mezzanine and the head scratching begun.
The first thing to do was to get the Mini flat and levelled. I have a hefty scissor lift table which I intended on using, this needed extensions making each side so the Mini could be mounted to it. Using some left over steel from the mezzanine I fabricated some extensions, to allow the Mini to be levelled easier I used some threaded bar with a mount welded to the ends, the mounts bolted to the rear subframe points and located in the jacking points on the sills.
Towards the front of the scissor table, this also needed an extension fabricating. Once everything was bolted on, hours were spent with spirit levels, digital levels, laser lines, plumb bob's and measuring diagonally to make sure everything was perfectly levelled and square. Time consuming.
As engine things are going to be happening, I needed to set a few datum points and take some measurements. I already had a later MPI Mini subframe I could use (later MPI Mini's had the engine mounted 11mm further back to make room for the front mounted rad, although this isn't that relevant here).
The A-series engine (metro turbo lump) was placed in,
From this I could drop plumb lines down from the tower bolts and centre line of the inner CV joint, the lines were then transferred onto the previously fabricated extension on the table. And more measurements were taken.
Various jigs and fixtures were then fabricated, these all pick up on structural mounting points on the subframe,
That's all for now, I'll try not to leave it so long for the next update as things have progressed slightly further!
I'll start where we left off (July 2016),
The door shuts on the Mini were the last thing to happen for quite some time. Shortly after this I bought an industrial unit, which needed quite a bit of work.
A few months after that I left my job where I had been employed for 11 years to start my own Business, my parents got their garage back (briefly, the MK1 Caddy still sits in it) and the Mini was taken to the workshop where it was lifted onto the mezzanine.
The Rotisserie I'd previously made was revisited, as the Mini was going to be sat on it for a while I decided to make it a bit more substantial so I could move it around if needs be, it was also painted.
And this is how the Mini was sat on the mezzanine while Business things happened and the "Project Mpact" Build took priority/got out of hand.
In 2020 we all know what happened, things went a bit pear shaped. A few customer vehicles/projects were either cancelled, rescheduled or just never turned up.
During one of the lockdowns (cant remember which) I found a bit of time to tinker with the Mini again, four years after last touching it it was lifted down from the mezzanine and the head scratching begun.
The first thing to do was to get the Mini flat and levelled. I have a hefty scissor lift table which I intended on using, this needed extensions making each side so the Mini could be mounted to it. Using some left over steel from the mezzanine I fabricated some extensions, to allow the Mini to be levelled easier I used some threaded bar with a mount welded to the ends, the mounts bolted to the rear subframe points and located in the jacking points on the sills.
Towards the front of the scissor table, this also needed an extension fabricating. Once everything was bolted on, hours were spent with spirit levels, digital levels, laser lines, plumb bob's and measuring diagonally to make sure everything was perfectly levelled and square. Time consuming.
As engine things are going to be happening, I needed to set a few datum points and take some measurements. I already had a later MPI Mini subframe I could use (later MPI Mini's had the engine mounted 11mm further back to make room for the front mounted rad, although this isn't that relevant here).
The A-series engine (metro turbo lump) was placed in,
From this I could drop plumb lines down from the tower bolts and centre line of the inner CV joint, the lines were then transferred onto the previously fabricated extension on the table. And more measurements were taken.
Various jigs and fixtures were then fabricated, these all pick up on structural mounting points on the subframe,
That's all for now, I'll try not to leave it so long for the next update as things have progressed slightly further!
Time for an update, it's been quite some time!.
Progress has been made on the Mini, all be it a bit slower than expected (and It took 3 different attempts to get me where I am).
Where we had left off, the Mini was on a Jig/Fixture, levelled, squared and a few measurements taken from the original A-series as datum points (CV ouput shafts, sump height etc).
So why all this faff? Engine swap/conversion!.
With classic Mini's there are very few engines that haven't been swapped into the front or rear of them, and "conversion kits" widely available to fit them in. From Honda Vtec's, vauxhall XE's, Ford Eco boosts, Suzuki bike and car engines, Nissan Cg13's (I've just fitted one into a 1964 MK1 Mini, purists cover your eyes), and Rover K series. When I say "fitted" this usually involves hacking the inner arches out, and basically butchering the cars to get the Subframes in, oh and some involved extending the front wings, bonnet etc
Which brings me to a few engine choices or idea's, firstly I have a 2.0 ABF from a MK3 GTI golf in the workshop which is waiting to be fitted into my Caddy, what about an R53 Cooper S lump? I have one as a daily driver, or randomly a 3 cylinder diesel from an Audi A2?.
The engine that was in the Mini previously was a metro turbo, with a straight cut gearbox and cross pin diff. I quite like small turbo'd engines, just this time a bit more civilised with no screaming gearboxes and something a bit more modern/"reliable".
Which narrowed things down to the choice I went for, the 1.4 turbo engine from a Abarth 500, hence the name of this build thread "The Alternative Italian Job".
I know very little about T-Jet engines, or anything Italian to be honest, but there seems to be quite a following with the T-Jet lumps as they are rather tuneable and widely available.
A couple of images from online,
Not knowing the height, width, depth or weight of the engine and gearbox I took a bit of a leap and ended up with this from Ebay, (excuse the fuzzy photo)
And first impressions, it's quite tall and not the most aesthetic looking thing, (I'll have to try and made it look better once it's fitted).
So the plan is to build a relatively refined classic Mini, not a stripped out racer. Full interior with a rollcage, keep the standard wheelbase, track width with no silly excessive wheel arches. And if possible keep as much of the Mini characteristic handling as possible, fingers crossed.
I am further into the build than this, in fact I'm on my 2nd/3rd idea for a subframe as I keep changing my mind on how to do it.
More to follow, I'll try not to leave it another year for a follow up!.
Progress has been made on the Mini, all be it a bit slower than expected (and It took 3 different attempts to get me where I am).
Where we had left off, the Mini was on a Jig/Fixture, levelled, squared and a few measurements taken from the original A-series as datum points (CV ouput shafts, sump height etc).
So why all this faff? Engine swap/conversion!.
With classic Mini's there are very few engines that haven't been swapped into the front or rear of them, and "conversion kits" widely available to fit them in. From Honda Vtec's, vauxhall XE's, Ford Eco boosts, Suzuki bike and car engines, Nissan Cg13's (I've just fitted one into a 1964 MK1 Mini, purists cover your eyes), and Rover K series. When I say "fitted" this usually involves hacking the inner arches out, and basically butchering the cars to get the Subframes in, oh and some involved extending the front wings, bonnet etc
Which brings me to a few engine choices or idea's, firstly I have a 2.0 ABF from a MK3 GTI golf in the workshop which is waiting to be fitted into my Caddy, what about an R53 Cooper S lump? I have one as a daily driver, or randomly a 3 cylinder diesel from an Audi A2?.
The engine that was in the Mini previously was a metro turbo, with a straight cut gearbox and cross pin diff. I quite like small turbo'd engines, just this time a bit more civilised with no screaming gearboxes and something a bit more modern/"reliable".
Which narrowed things down to the choice I went for, the 1.4 turbo engine from a Abarth 500, hence the name of this build thread "The Alternative Italian Job".
I know very little about T-Jet engines, or anything Italian to be honest, but there seems to be quite a following with the T-Jet lumps as they are rather tuneable and widely available.
A couple of images from online,
Not knowing the height, width, depth or weight of the engine and gearbox I took a bit of a leap and ended up with this from Ebay, (excuse the fuzzy photo)
And first impressions, it's quite tall and not the most aesthetic looking thing, (I'll have to try and made it look better once it's fitted).
So the plan is to build a relatively refined classic Mini, not a stripped out racer. Full interior with a rollcage, keep the standard wheelbase, track width with no silly excessive wheel arches. And if possible keep as much of the Mini characteristic handling as possible, fingers crossed.
I am further into the build than this, in fact I'm on my 2nd/3rd idea for a subframe as I keep changing my mind on how to do it.
More to follow, I'll try not to leave it another year for a follow up!.
Interesting development! Wondered about the Ford turbo 3-pot or even just an old NA Aygo 3-pot. Not loads of power from the latter but looks light and tiny for a modernised original Mini.
Never thought of the fiat - interested to see how it goes!
Never thought of the fiat - interested to see how it goes!
Edited by dom9 on Tuesday 24th January 19:00
Better late than never!?
Progress has been made, and a serious amount off faffing and head scratching.
In the last update the Abarth lump was sat on a trolley, not knowing if it would actually fit in the hole that it was going to be squeezed into.
The plan, no extended front, no wacky wheel arches (no wider than sportspack arches), keep the Mini geometry (not moving the steering rack etc), keep it relatively subtle to the untrained eye and if i can, have it reversible so I can refit an A-series if I ever wanted to. Not too much to think about then
I roughly mocked up the engine to see if it fitted in the hole. With the engine sat flat on its sump and pushed all the way back to the bulkhead this is how it was looking,
As you can see, first impressions were not great, the turbo, oil filter and cooler all stuck out far too much and as for the width,
It was ever so snug between the inner wings.
So, to make things easier I made an over engineered jig that attached to another jig. With this jig I could raise and lower the engine, slide the engine back and forth, and also tilt the engine back and forth to change the angle. Simple
The initial plan was to try and use the standard Mini subframe towers and rubber doughnut suspension. I wanted to try and keep these to keep the handling characteristics of a Mini, but not knowing the weight difference of the engines (A-series and T-Jet) and now realising the size of the engine, and space........ or lack of. The first initial plan wasn't going to work.
Ignoring any subframe issues (we'll cover this later) I set the T-Jet/Abarth engine to where I think it needed to be using the previous datum points taken from the inner CV joints of the A-series.
The steering rack was installed, turbo, cat, oil filter and cooler all removed from the engine. With the angle/tilt and height of the engine all changed this is how it sat,
So basically with none of the important bits attached it doesn't fit too bad!.
I'll be making a different manifold that will relocate the turbo, and also relocating the oil filter/cooler..... somewhere. As well as finding somewhere to fit a radiator and intercoolers.
Next will be the subframe faffing update, I've already made two subframes I wasn't happy with, third time lucky I hope.
.
Progress has been made, and a serious amount off faffing and head scratching.
In the last update the Abarth lump was sat on a trolley, not knowing if it would actually fit in the hole that it was going to be squeezed into.
The plan, no extended front, no wacky wheel arches (no wider than sportspack arches), keep the Mini geometry (not moving the steering rack etc), keep it relatively subtle to the untrained eye and if i can, have it reversible so I can refit an A-series if I ever wanted to. Not too much to think about then
I roughly mocked up the engine to see if it fitted in the hole. With the engine sat flat on its sump and pushed all the way back to the bulkhead this is how it was looking,
As you can see, first impressions were not great, the turbo, oil filter and cooler all stuck out far too much and as for the width,
It was ever so snug between the inner wings.
So, to make things easier I made an over engineered jig that attached to another jig. With this jig I could raise and lower the engine, slide the engine back and forth, and also tilt the engine back and forth to change the angle. Simple
The initial plan was to try and use the standard Mini subframe towers and rubber doughnut suspension. I wanted to try and keep these to keep the handling characteristics of a Mini, but not knowing the weight difference of the engines (A-series and T-Jet) and now realising the size of the engine, and space........ or lack of. The first initial plan wasn't going to work.
Ignoring any subframe issues (we'll cover this later) I set the T-Jet/Abarth engine to where I think it needed to be using the previous datum points taken from the inner CV joints of the A-series.
The steering rack was installed, turbo, cat, oil filter and cooler all removed from the engine. With the angle/tilt and height of the engine all changed this is how it sat,
So basically with none of the important bits attached it doesn't fit too bad!.
I'll be making a different manifold that will relocate the turbo, and also relocating the oil filter/cooler..... somewhere. As well as finding somewhere to fit a radiator and intercoolers.
Next will be the subframe faffing update, I've already made two subframes I wasn't happy with, third time lucky I hope.
.
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