Bamford Rose Clutch and Flywheel Upgrade
Discussion
I have just picked up my car (one of the v8 AMR's) from Bamford Rose after having the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch installed. The original clutch and flywheel didnt need replacing, but I wanted to improve this specific aspect of the car. I was struggling to find someone's experience of just this modification in isolation, as most people do this in combination with the manifolds upgrade, or have already done the manifolds and then do the clutch/LWFW. There are a few who have installed other kits, like the AMR kit from Aston Martin themselves, but as I have since discovered, none of these kits are identical, and in fact the weight of the flywheel varies depending on which company you go for (the AMR/VelocityAP/BR etc). From a bit of research, the BR flywheel was the lightest (doesnt necessarily mean the best btw, just point this out for general information) saving 7kg from the standard 4.7 flywheel. That may not sound like a big difference, but considering that when aston moved from the 4.3 to the 4.7 and lightened the flywheel to make the engine more responsive, they reduced the weight only by 0.5kg. Of course in that scenario there are other factors at play like engine changes, but it does go to show that a 7kg weight difference is a fairly substantial difference when it comes to a flywheel. Anyway, enough background onto the changes in how the car behaves...
The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
Nice insight.
I recently had the twin plate clutch and lightened flywheel fitted to my car. Although this wasn't fitted by Bamford Rose, instead being fitted by AHM along with other upgrades mentioned by the OP I can say it has been the best of all the upgrades I have had fitted.
While the previous clutch was starting to slip but still had life left I was ready to replace.
Pedal feel is much lighter, making it far easier to control despite me thinking the original clutch wasn't too bad, the difference is night and day. The lightened flywheel helps the engine (4.3) spin more freely giving the engine a little more pep.
As mentioned u did have other upgrades fitted at the same time such as 200 cell cats, GT4 filters and remap but the feeling from the clutch has made an already enjoyable car to one that now feels more lively.
In isolation it would be a great upgrade, mixed with the other upgrades it makes for a feeling of a different car.
I recently had the twin plate clutch and lightened flywheel fitted to my car. Although this wasn't fitted by Bamford Rose, instead being fitted by AHM along with other upgrades mentioned by the OP I can say it has been the best of all the upgrades I have had fitted.
While the previous clutch was starting to slip but still had life left I was ready to replace.
Pedal feel is much lighter, making it far easier to control despite me thinking the original clutch wasn't too bad, the difference is night and day. The lightened flywheel helps the engine (4.3) spin more freely giving the engine a little more pep.
As mentioned u did have other upgrades fitted at the same time such as 200 cell cats, GT4 filters and remap but the feeling from the clutch has made an already enjoyable car to one that now feels more lively.
In isolation it would be a great upgrade, mixed with the other upgrades it makes for a feeling of a different car.
Excellent review. I had mine done by BR very recently too on my 4.3, and echo the same experience in all of the details that you've mentioned.
It's a no brainer really if you need a new clutch. Like you, mine didn't need replacing, but the manifolds were being done at the time. It's a worthwhile upgrade even on its own.
It's a no brainer really if you need a new clutch. Like you, mine didn't need replacing, but the manifolds were being done at the time. It's a worthwhile upgrade even on its own.
cypriot said:
I was struggling to find someone's experience of just this modification in isolation, as most people do this in combination with the manifolds upgrade, or have already done the manifolds and then do the clutch/LWFW.
...... From a bit of research, the BR flywheel was the lightest (doesnt necessarily mean the best btw, just point this out for general information) saving 7kg from the standard 4.7 flywheel. That may not sound like a big difference, but considering that when aston moved from the 4.3 to the 4.7 and lightened the flywheel to make the engine more responsive, they reduced the weight only by 0.5kg.
...... From a bit of research, the BR flywheel was the lightest (doesnt necessarily mean the best btw, just point this out for general information) saving 7kg from the standard 4.7 flywheel. That may not sound like a big difference, but considering that when aston moved from the 4.3 to the 4.7 and lightened the flywheel to make the engine more responsive, they reduced the weight only by 0.5kg.
I was surprised that you struggled to find people, who have only had the twin plate clutch modification.
I had that change on a standard 4.7, after the original clutch failed. Probably not the only one with such circumstances.
I was interested in your weight difference figures for flywheels. The change in flywheel effect must relate to percentage weight difference.
Do you know the weight of a standard 4.7 flywheel? Sorry, being lazy asking, because my old one is in my garage.
Perhaps the negligible 0.5kg reduction 4.3 to 4.7, was to give the marketing people something extra to say!
Certainly the clutch pedal weighting is the stand-out difference. Any change in responsiveness was more difficult for me to judge. Would have thought it might not be too noticeable. One of my other cars has a Coventry Climax derived engine. With that car at standstill, the rapid speed increase and decrease of engine revs is quite remarkable. You can almost play a tune, just using the throttle pedal. The 'twin plate' Vantage is not in that league.
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Some V8 Vantages have a more pronounced gear chatter, after a the twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel have been fitted. Did you notice that with your own car? It does however seem to reduce a bit as mileage increases. This occurance varies car to car.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th February 12:52
Dewi 2 said:
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th February 12:52
cypriot said:
Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can.
I noticed this too - but thought it was just a placebo from having a lighter clutch pedal. Do you know why the gear slots/throw would have changed?Hi, I fitted a AP dual plate clutch to my V8S so the SSII gearbox. I have been pleasantly surprised, it took a while for the clutch to bed in but now there is no lurching at all in normal mode and the sport mode really does have a much faster and harder pickup. It is noticeably faster at high revs spinning up quickly enough it can catch you out.
My old clutch had 30% life left on it and work as well as any other SSII, I cannot recommend a twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel highly enough. It has transformed my car in traffic and made it a bit more rabid out of town.
I have not done any other mods the S is quick and noisy enough for me.
My old clutch had 30% life left on it and work as well as any other SSII, I cannot recommend a twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel highly enough. It has transformed my car in traffic and made it a bit more rabid out of town.
I have not done any other mods the S is quick and noisy enough for me.
ds666 said:
Dewi 2 said:
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
The worst throttle response I've ever experienced was in my Alfa days. I had a 3.2 V6 GT, which was lovely, and I think the last incarnation of the Busso V6, then test drove a Brera. The throttle lag (I can't call it response) in the Brera was so bad that I immediately dismissed the idea of changing the GT which I then kept until I got my first Aston. Proper petrolhead credentials: two Alfas and two Astons
Dewi 2 said:
I was interested in your weight difference figures for flywheels. The change in flywheel effect must relate to percentage weight difference.
Do you know the weight of a standard 4.7 flywheel? Sorry, being lazy asking, because my old one is in my garage.
Perhaps the negligible 0.5kg reduction 4.3 to 4.7, was to give the marketing people something extra to say!
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Some V8 Vantages have a more pronounced gear chatter, after a the twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel have been fitted. Did you notice that with your own car? It does however seem to reduce a bit as mileage increases. This occurance varies car to car.
I am not sure what the OEM weighs, but I will be weighing it once I dig it out as well, as I am also intrigued by this.Do you know the weight of a standard 4.7 flywheel? Sorry, being lazy asking, because my old one is in my garage.
Perhaps the negligible 0.5kg reduction 4.3 to 4.7, was to give the marketing people something extra to say!
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Some V8 Vantages have a more pronounced gear chatter, after a the twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel have been fitted. Did you notice that with your own car? It does however seem to reduce a bit as mileage increases. This occurance varies car to car.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th February 12:52
No, I have not experienced any more chatter at all, although from what I understand it is highly car specific.
As for the engine revs in modern cars being controlled, it is called "rev hang" and is done on purpose to make sure all the fuel is fully combused for emissions reasons. Annoying, but hey ho!
NickXX said:
cypriot said:
Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can.
I noticed this too - but thought it was just a placebo from having a lighter clutch pedal. Do you know why the gear slots/throw would have changed?NickXX said:
I noticed this too - but thought it was just a placebo from having a lighter clutch pedal. Do you know why the gear slots/throw would have changed?
I think there are 2 things going on here one is the new slave cylinder, and the shorted throw is to be with the fulcrum point of the cables on the gear lever being slightly altered. Or at least this is what I was told!cypriot said:
I have just picked up my car (one of the v8 AMR's) from Bamford Rose after having the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch installed. The original clutch and flywheel didnt need replacing, but I wanted to improve this specific aspect of the car. I was struggling to find someone's experience of just this modification in isolation, as most people do this in combination with the manifolds upgrade, or have already done the manifolds and then do the clutch/LWFW. There are a few who have installed other kits, like the AMR kit from Aston Martin themselves, but as I have since discovered, none of these kits are identical, and in fact the weight of the flywheel varies depending on which company you go for (the AMR/VelocityAP/BR etc). From a bit of research, the BR flywheel was the lightest (doesnt necessarily mean the best btw, just point this out for general information) saving 7kg from the standard 4.7 flywheel. That may not sound like a big difference, but considering that when aston moved from the 4.3 to the 4.7 and lightened the flywheel to make the engine more responsive, they reduced the weight only by 0.5kg. Of course in that scenario there are other factors at play like engine changes, but it does go to show that a 7kg weight difference is a fairly substantial difference when it comes to a flywheel. Anyway, enough background onto the changes in how the car behaves...
The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
What a coincidence... I’ve spent the day at BR today whilst Mike and the team did the exact same upgrade to my v8v! Agree it significantly improves the engine’s responsiveness and the car’s overall driveability - for me it’s exactly the transformation I was hoping for. I did a fair bit of research before committing to the BR route and I must say the whole experience has been a delight. Mike has been extremely responsive to all my emails, booked me in at short notice, spent ages chatting to me today explaining in great detail about my mod and lots of other things they do with Astons etc. Because I waited in the workshop all day I got to see a ‘day in the life’ of Mike and BR and, whilst they may have some shortcomings when it comes to communication (although as I say, their communication with me has been great), the way they deal with people and issues in the shop is totally professional and goes above and beyond... both me and one other customer today ended up needing ‘engineered’ solutions to issues that cropped up on the day and BR just get the tools, welder and laptop out and sort it - no dramas. I’ve no connection to BR - bought the car from McGurks who were great too - I’d strongly recommend both.The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
EVR said:
Ah, I am trying to contact them since forever to see if they can fly out a tech here in Italy to do this to my N420 and Mister Blu V8 Roadster (and manifold too on his) but to no avail. They don't reply to email/phone calls...
Hi,feel free to give me an email. We carry out the conversion here at the Nürburgring in Germany but can also travel if required.
info@valiant-ecosse.com
ds666 said:
Dewi 2 said:
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th February 12:52
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