Faulty Second Hand Car - Consumer Rights Act 2015
Discussion
Hi all,
On 6/2/21, I bought a 2007 Mini Cooper Clubman with 114k miles on the clock for £2,425. I bought the car from a small dealer and all was fine for about a week, or 150 or so miles, until the engine light came on.
I subsequently pulled over and called a mobile mechanic out to come and do a diagnostics test. There were two faults that came up on the test, and the mechanic believed that one of the faults was historic and had not been cleared, so he cleared both of the faults and told me that the light will likely come back on in a few days time, once it re-recognises the fault, and to call him when it does so. This happened on a Sunday, so I called the dealer who I bought the car from on the Monday to make him aware of the problem. He didn't seem so interested, but I said that I would keep him updated. I sent him a photograph of the diagnostics reading.
Two or three days later, the light came back on, the mechanic came back out to the car and plugged it in again and it it was fault code 276A, which is the catalytic conversion. I then made contact again with the dealer, who was still just as disinterested, and I said that I will be taking it to a Mini specialist so that we can find out the exact extent of the problem. I sent a picture of the latest diagnostics reading for his reference.
I have a friend who works as a mechanic at my local Sytner Mini/BMW dealership, so I immediately got in touch with him and he said to bring it down and he will have a look at it. After doing so, it became evident that the catalytic converter had crumbled from the inside, and has subsequently caused the o2 sensors to burn out, along with an array of further damage.
I got a quote for the repair work from my friend and he gave me the part numbers so that I could source them myself without paying the Mini dealer prices, which along with labor, would have likely come to more than what the car is worth.
I told this all to the dealer who I bought the car from and I sent him a copy of the parts required. The response I got was 'what am I supposed to do with this?'
I am pretty annoyed, as the car has obviously been sold with a pretty significant issue. I would ideally like to exercise my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but before pursuing a claim, I just want to make sure that I would actually have a case, as I don't want to fork out a load of money on one, lose it and then still be stuck with the repair bill.
The dealer is arguing that the car was sold as seen, I test drove it and was happy when I bought it. He said that you have to expect wear and tear for a car of this mileage and age. He said that he will look into the catalytic converter, but nothing else.
What on earth can I do? Do I have enough of a case to go to Trading Standards/The Small Claims Court? I do not trust him to carry out the work, I really would like it to be done by my friend at Mini.
On 6/2/21, I bought a 2007 Mini Cooper Clubman with 114k miles on the clock for £2,425. I bought the car from a small dealer and all was fine for about a week, or 150 or so miles, until the engine light came on.
I subsequently pulled over and called a mobile mechanic out to come and do a diagnostics test. There were two faults that came up on the test, and the mechanic believed that one of the faults was historic and had not been cleared, so he cleared both of the faults and told me that the light will likely come back on in a few days time, once it re-recognises the fault, and to call him when it does so. This happened on a Sunday, so I called the dealer who I bought the car from on the Monday to make him aware of the problem. He didn't seem so interested, but I said that I would keep him updated. I sent him a photograph of the diagnostics reading.
Two or three days later, the light came back on, the mechanic came back out to the car and plugged it in again and it it was fault code 276A, which is the catalytic conversion. I then made contact again with the dealer, who was still just as disinterested, and I said that I will be taking it to a Mini specialist so that we can find out the exact extent of the problem. I sent a picture of the latest diagnostics reading for his reference.
I have a friend who works as a mechanic at my local Sytner Mini/BMW dealership, so I immediately got in touch with him and he said to bring it down and he will have a look at it. After doing so, it became evident that the catalytic converter had crumbled from the inside, and has subsequently caused the o2 sensors to burn out, along with an array of further damage.
I got a quote for the repair work from my friend and he gave me the part numbers so that I could source them myself without paying the Mini dealer prices, which along with labor, would have likely come to more than what the car is worth.
I told this all to the dealer who I bought the car from and I sent him a copy of the parts required. The response I got was 'what am I supposed to do with this?'
I am pretty annoyed, as the car has obviously been sold with a pretty significant issue. I would ideally like to exercise my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but before pursuing a claim, I just want to make sure that I would actually have a case, as I don't want to fork out a load of money on one, lose it and then still be stuck with the repair bill.
The dealer is arguing that the car was sold as seen, I test drove it and was happy when I bought it. He said that you have to expect wear and tear for a car of this mileage and age. He said that he will look into the catalytic converter, but nothing else.
What on earth can I do? Do I have enough of a case to go to Trading Standards/The Small Claims Court? I do not trust him to carry out the work, I really would like it to be done by my friend at Mini.
I understand your concern about it breaking, but its nowhere near the £2000 disaster your mate is pretending.
A casual search shows that a brand new cat for your car is £130, if you buy sensibly.
https://www.cats2u.co.uk/mini/8928-mini-clubman-co...
I bought a cheap ebay one for one of my sons Aygo's and its still going strong 5 years later for the new owner. they aren't as good as the OEM, but they are good enough to pass an MOT, for the remaining years of your ownership.
£200, should cover the cat and a good aftermarket lambda sensor, so all you are missing is the labour from a trusted mobile mechanic or garage, who may even get the parts cheaper.
Take those numbers back to the dealer and see if he will make a contribution.
Someone, will probably insist on telling you, that ONLY a brand new BMW part is acceptable, as that is what you have fitted.
Simply remind them that what you actually have fitted is a broken 114K original part, not a functioning one likely to break at any time.
Isn't in any way related. I've got a list of "historical" codes on my car, only current ones are an issue. Guy probably didn't know it was happening, but I sure as sin wouldn't be going to get Bini genuine parts to put in front of him because he'd rightly argue you can't go buy a bazillion mile/year old car and expect brand new main dealer parts on. Get on to someone like ECP for a parts cost, explain to the dealer that you'd like it to be resolved because aside from that you're happy with the car (assuming you are, and your friend hasn't unearthed a million faults you should be rejecting the car for) and that given the proximity to the date of purchase there isn't really much arguing about the fault being present at the date of purchase given it's a couple of weeks ago now.
He *may* exercise his right to offer you a refund and take the car back instead of fixing it. It's his choice I believe but I stand to be corrected, in any event it would be a bit daft of him as it'll need doing anyway.
He *may* exercise his right to offer you a refund and take the car back instead of fixing it. It's his choice I believe but I stand to be corrected, in any event it would be a bit daft of him as it'll need doing anyway.
Hol said:
I understand your concern about it breaking, but its nowhere near the £2000 disaster your mate is pretending.
A casual search shows that a brand new cat for your car is £130, if you buy sensibly.
https://www.cats2u.co.uk/mini/8928-mini-clubman-co...
I bought a cheap ebay one for one of my sons Aygo's and its still going strong 5 years later for the new owner. they aren't as good as the OEM, but they are good enough to pass an MOT, for the remaining years of your ownership.
£200, should cover the cat and a good aftermarket lambda sensor, so all you are missing is the labour from a trusted mobile mechanic or garage, who may even get the parts cheaper.
Take those numbers back to the dealer and see if he will make a contribution.
Someone, will probably insist on telling you, that ONLY a brand new BMW part is acceptable, as that is what you have fitted.
Simply remind them that what you actually have fitted is a broken 114K original part, not a functioning one likely to break at any time.
Yeah I have been searching the part numbers into autodoc.co.uk and I will be getting them for significantly less than what Mini would charge. My friend just gave me that so that I could use the part numbers to source my own parts. A casual search shows that a brand new cat for your car is £130, if you buy sensibly.
https://www.cats2u.co.uk/mini/8928-mini-clubman-co...
I bought a cheap ebay one for one of my sons Aygo's and its still going strong 5 years later for the new owner. they aren't as good as the OEM, but they are good enough to pass an MOT, for the remaining years of your ownership.
£200, should cover the cat and a good aftermarket lambda sensor, so all you are missing is the labour from a trusted mobile mechanic or garage, who may even get the parts cheaper.
Take those numbers back to the dealer and see if he will make a contribution.
Someone, will probably insist on telling you, that ONLY a brand new BMW part is acceptable, as that is what you have fitted.
Simply remind them that what you actually have fitted is a broken 114K original part, not a functioning one likely to break at any time.
These things happen with older cars, especially ones with as much mileage as your Mini.
The dealer has offered a fix for the cats which is great, however, I really wouldn't expect the dealer to spend much on the repairs. The dealer is going to have a small profit margin and also the value of the car being so slow probably isn't worth the money to fix.
If I were you, I would ask the dealer for a refund as the car is unfortunately unfit for purpose.
Best of luck OP and keep us posted
The dealer has offered a fix for the cats which is great, however, I really wouldn't expect the dealer to spend much on the repairs. The dealer is going to have a small profit margin and also the value of the car being so slow probably isn't worth the money to fix.
If I were you, I would ask the dealer for a refund as the car is unfortunately unfit for purpose.
Best of luck OP and keep us posted
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FK91480C-Exhaust-Fittin...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BM91480H-Exhaust-Manifo...
Lambdas (post-cat) go anywhere from £20 for a genuine used or brand new pattern up to £60 for a reputable brand. An hour or two with a spanner and a lift and you're good to go, and back on the road for a few hundred quid. Unless you believe there are more issues then the sensible thing to do is to approach the dealer with the opportunity to fix, if they won't fix it then get it fixed and Money Claim Online for the repair costs - unless you've been a donut and gone Main Dealer in which case you're not gonna be in a great position if there's much push back (although arguably if he wanted to engineer a more reasonably priced repair he should have arranged it, there is still a duty on you to minimise your losses and taking a car you wouldn't buy from a main dealer to a main dealer doesn't really fit that bill).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BM91480H-Exhaust-Manifo...
Lambdas (post-cat) go anywhere from £20 for a genuine used or brand new pattern up to £60 for a reputable brand. An hour or two with a spanner and a lift and you're good to go, and back on the road for a few hundred quid. Unless you believe there are more issues then the sensible thing to do is to approach the dealer with the opportunity to fix, if they won't fix it then get it fixed and Money Claim Online for the repair costs - unless you've been a donut and gone Main Dealer in which case you're not gonna be in a great position if there's much push back (although arguably if he wanted to engineer a more reasonably priced repair he should have arranged it, there is still a duty on you to minimise your losses and taking a car you wouldn't buy from a main dealer to a main dealer doesn't really fit that bill).
Edited by Pegscratch on Wednesday 24th February 16:14
Pig benis said:
If I were you, I would ask the dealer for a refund as the car is unfortunately unfit for purpose.
Why? If he's gonna fix the cat problem then unless the OP has other issues it's just a cheap car that stuff broke on?How the other half live, chucking second hand cars on the scrap heap because the cat's collapsed!
MaxMaloney said:
Hi all,
On 6/2/21, I bought a 2007 Mini Cooper Clubman with 114k miles on the clock for £2,425. I bought the car from a small dealer and all was fine for about a week, or 150 or so miles, until the engine light came on.
I subsequently pulled over and called a mobile mechanic out to come and do a diagnostics test. There were two faults that came up on the test, and the mechanic believed that one of the faults was historic and had not been cleared, so he cleared both of the faults and told me that the light will likely come back on in a few days time, once it re-recognises the fault, and to call him when it does so. This happened on a Sunday, so I called the dealer who I bought the car from on the Monday to make him aware of the problem. He didn't seem so interested, but I said that I would keep him updated. I sent him a photograph of the diagnostics reading.
Two or three days later, the light came back on, the mechanic came back out to the car and plugged it in again and it it was fault code 276A, which is the catalytic conversion. I then made contact again with the dealer, who was still just as disinterested, and I said that I will be taking it to a Mini specialist so that we can find out the exact extent of the problem. I sent a picture of the latest diagnostics reading for his reference.
I have a friend who works as a mechanic at my local Sytner Mini/BMW dealership, so I immediately got in touch with him and he said to bring it down and he will have a look at it. After doing so, it became evident that the catalytic converter had crumbled from the inside, and has subsequently caused the o2 sensors to burn out, along with an array of further damage.
I got a quote for the repair work from my friend and he gave me the part numbers so that I could source them myself without paying the Mini dealer prices, which along with labor, would have likely come to more than what the car is worth.
I told this all to the dealer who I bought the car from and I sent him a copy of the parts required. The response I got was 'what am I supposed to do with this?'
I am pretty annoyed, as the car has obviously been sold with a pretty significant issue. I would ideally like to exercise my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but before pursuing a claim, I just want to make sure that I would actually have a case, as I don't want to fork out a load of money on one, lose it and then still be stuck with the repair bill.
The dealer is arguing that the car was sold as seen, I test drove it and was happy when I bought it. He said that you have to expect wear and tear for a car of this mileage and age. He said that he will look into the catalytic converter, but nothing else.
What on earth can I do? Do I have enough of a case to go to Trading Standards/The Small Claims Court? I do not trust him to carry out the work, I really would like it to be done by my friend at Mini.
Why didn't you go back to him at the first sign of the problems, for him to have a look and sort out?On 6/2/21, I bought a 2007 Mini Cooper Clubman with 114k miles on the clock for £2,425. I bought the car from a small dealer and all was fine for about a week, or 150 or so miles, until the engine light came on.
I subsequently pulled over and called a mobile mechanic out to come and do a diagnostics test. There were two faults that came up on the test, and the mechanic believed that one of the faults was historic and had not been cleared, so he cleared both of the faults and told me that the light will likely come back on in a few days time, once it re-recognises the fault, and to call him when it does so. This happened on a Sunday, so I called the dealer who I bought the car from on the Monday to make him aware of the problem. He didn't seem so interested, but I said that I would keep him updated. I sent him a photograph of the diagnostics reading.
Two or three days later, the light came back on, the mechanic came back out to the car and plugged it in again and it it was fault code 276A, which is the catalytic conversion. I then made contact again with the dealer, who was still just as disinterested, and I said that I will be taking it to a Mini specialist so that we can find out the exact extent of the problem. I sent a picture of the latest diagnostics reading for his reference.
I have a friend who works as a mechanic at my local Sytner Mini/BMW dealership, so I immediately got in touch with him and he said to bring it down and he will have a look at it. After doing so, it became evident that the catalytic converter had crumbled from the inside, and has subsequently caused the o2 sensors to burn out, along with an array of further damage.
I got a quote for the repair work from my friend and he gave me the part numbers so that I could source them myself without paying the Mini dealer prices, which along with labor, would have likely come to more than what the car is worth.
I told this all to the dealer who I bought the car from and I sent him a copy of the parts required. The response I got was 'what am I supposed to do with this?'
I am pretty annoyed, as the car has obviously been sold with a pretty significant issue. I would ideally like to exercise my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but before pursuing a claim, I just want to make sure that I would actually have a case, as I don't want to fork out a load of money on one, lose it and then still be stuck with the repair bill.
The dealer is arguing that the car was sold as seen, I test drove it and was happy when I bought it. He said that you have to expect wear and tear for a car of this mileage and age. He said that he will look into the catalytic converter, but nothing else.
What on earth can I do? Do I have enough of a case to go to Trading Standards/The Small Claims Court? I do not trust him to carry out the work, I really would like it to be done by my friend at Mini.
Alucidnation said:
Why didn't you go back to him at the first sign of the problems, for him to have a look and sort out?
To be fair to the OP it looks like he was in touch with the dealer and the dealer made no offer to investigate - that's what I take from his being disinterested anyway.Pegscratch said:
Alucidnation said:
Why didn't you go back to him at the first sign of the problems, for him to have a look and sort out?
To be fair to the OP it looks like he was in touch with the dealer and the dealer made no offer to investigate - that's what I take from his being disinterested anyway.But he still should have gone back with it and talked in person.
Not as easy to fob you off then.
I think the dealers been fair you bought a relatively high mileage car for sensible money & some parts are worn out the dealer has offered to fix the cats which is fair enough.
If you want it done by your mate or anyone else then you'll have to front up for the labour & the dealer will pay for the parts, this is the easiest solution.
If you want it done by your mate or anyone else then you'll have to front up for the labour & the dealer will pay for the parts, this is the easiest solution.
Pegscratch said:
MaxMaloney said:
I do not trust him to carry out the work, I really would like it to be done by my friend at Mini.
Then buy an approved used Mini, not a £2,500 one.Jesus christ, I can't believe you think you can buy a 14 year old car for £2500 from a dealer, who has said he will fix it and you want to take it to a main dealer.
You're coming across as a muppet mate and the fact you are not allowing him to sort it means you won't have a leg to stand on if you pursue a claim.
Nearly every Mini of that age will have failing pre and post cat o2 sensors by the way.
gizlaroc said:
Absolutely this.
Jesus christ, I can't believe you think you can buy a 14 year old car for £2500 from a dealer, who has said he will fix it and you want to take it to a main dealer.
You're coming across as a muppet mate and the fact you are not allowing him to sort it means you won't have a leg to stand on if you pursue a claim.
Nearly every Mini of that age will have failing pre and post cat o2 sensors by the way.
I have previously stated that I do not want to or am planning on taking it to a main dealer for the repair. I happen to have a friend who works at a main dealer, I would prefer for him to do the work for me, not at the main dealer, not with main dealer prices. Jesus christ, I can't believe you think you can buy a 14 year old car for £2500 from a dealer, who has said he will fix it and you want to take it to a main dealer.
You're coming across as a muppet mate and the fact you are not allowing him to sort it means you won't have a leg to stand on if you pursue a claim.
Nearly every Mini of that age will have failing pre and post cat o2 sensors by the way.
MaxMaloney said:
I have previously stated that I do not want to or am planning on taking it to a main dealer for the repair. I happen to have a friend who works at a main dealer, I would prefer for him to do the work for me, not at the main dealer, not with main dealer prices.
At which point you then need to pay the labour & let the dealer pay for the parts. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff