V12 vantage official

[oilit]

Just had an email from Mr Moers with invitation to see the v12 vantage :-)

Apparently v12 vantage is a final edition rather than a limited edition - albeit numbers are ……strictly limited ….

[EVR]

Cool.

Weird that "final" name, the model is far from it's end of life as far as I know.

[oilit]

I thought that - then wondered if it’s the final … v12 vantage ?

Maybe the future is the hybrid that has just gone into the DBX for China and then full electric?

Edited by oilit on Friday 26th November 13:42

[EVR]

Right, if you think that the next Vantage will/could be hybrid/electric.

[Jon39]

EVR said:

Right, if you think that the next Vantage will/could be hybrid/electric.

I seem to remember that was said, during one of Tobias Moers 'interviews'.
I wouldn't know how to find that webpage though.
Think it was along the lines of all new models after 2025 will hybrid or electric.

The Valkyrie is of course V12 hybrid, but all road car hybrids now seem to have smallish engines, so the V12 being used for future models would seem unlikely. Mercedes have 4 cylinder 2 litre turbo engines in many of their models now.

[cayman-black]

When are you going? Get plenty of pictures please.

[AdamV12V]

cayman-black said:

When are you going? Get plenty of pictures please.

Sadly cameras are not allowed in the factory past the reception....

I suspect one or two Vloggers will be along very soon to say they have one on order, so we should be able to watch it there

[Djit]

I really like the look of it. Apparently AML are hoping demand will be high and want to introduce a points system to qualify for one. Based upon past purchases. Similar to Ferrari. Hope this keeps out the vloggers and flippers.

[AdamV12V]

Djit said:

I really like the look of it. Apparently AML are hoping demand will be high and want to introduce a points system to qualify for one. Based upon past purchases. Similar to Ferrari. Hope this keeps out the vloggers and flippers.

I sincerely hope not! I obviously qualified having been called weeks ago asking if I wanted one, and then declined, but it would be a VERY sad step in the wrong direction if we got to the Ferrari / Porsche level of qualification in order to be "allowed" to buy a car from AM. Hey Ho...

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 26th November 22:59

[Graze01]

AdamV12V said:

Djit said:

I really like the look of it. Apparently AML are hoping demand will be high and want to introduce a points system to qualify for one. Based upon past purchases. Similar to Ferrari. Hope this keeps out the vloggers and flippers.

I sincerely hope not! I obviously qualified having been called weeks ago asking if I wanted one, and then declined, but it would be a VERY sad step in the wrong direction if we got to the Ferrari / Porsche level of qualification in order to be "allowed" to buy a car from AM. Hey Ho...

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 26th November 22:59

Adam

the points system is real as confirmed by my dealer. Loosely as I understand it:

Tier 1
1-77 owners highest ranked with Valkyrie & Zagato, and multiple purchases adds points


Tier 2
V12 ownership gets you in category 2 (DBS,DB9,V12V)

Tier 3
Others

Have said I want one, put down a deposit, but dont expect to make the cut sadly as only on my second Vantage

Graze

[LooneyTunes]

There may be some hope, Graze, I’ve bought multiple V12s from the same dealer and have heard nothing, so it’s possible they’re not all being proactive in trying to sell them.

I know AM have been criticised in the past for not having any pre-qualification to buy, for example, some of the Zagatos/GTs but they end up on shaky ground if they get it wrong with current long-term owners or, worse, try to introduce the sort of nonsense you see from other brands where you end up having to buy vehicles you don’t want in order to get the ones you do.

[Graze01]

LooneyTunes said:

There may be some hope, Graze, I’ve bought multiple V12s from the same dealer and have heard nothing, so it’s possible they’re not all being proactive in trying to sell them.

I know AM have been criticised in the past for not having any pre-qualification to buy, for example, some of the Zagatos/GTs but they end up on shaky ground if they get it wrong with current long-term owners or, worse, try to introduce the sort of nonsense you see from other brands where you end up having to buy vehicles you don’t want in order to get the ones you do.

lets hope you are correct - I do have a virtual viewing booked provisionally for 15th

we will see in time

then the problem will be the price!

Graeme

[Minglar]

I haven’t received an email or had any other contact from my dealer, but I didn’t really expect it. It may be the dealers aren’t pushing it, but I am only on my second AM and I guess that may not be enough. I think AM are caught in a slight quandary here, and although I’m sure they want to prevent any potential flippers, introducing a system similar to Ferrari and Porsche is a potential minefield. I remember reading comments from AP regarding flippers a few years ago, but nothing seemed to come from it, apart from possibly the points system described by Graze. From reading other forums the Porsche situation seems to be controlled by the MDs themselves rather than the factory, and as we all know it is currently nigh on impossible to get a new GT3 without paying well over the odds, and the situation is likely to be the same with the recently announced Cayman GT4RS. As far as I know Ferrari seem to adopt a more factory based centralised system. I’m sure the vloggers will have no problems though as Adam said, and I fully expect Shmee or more likely Mr JWW to have something out on YouTube soon. At the end of the day I guess the main thing is that this car is well received by the motoring press, and the limited run sells out quickly.

Best Regards

Minglar

[MMarkM]

Graze01 said:

Adam

the points system is real as confirmed by my dealer. Loosely as I understand it:

Tier 1
1-77 owners highest ranked with Valkyrie & Zagato, and multiple purchases adds points


Tier 2
V12 ownership gets you in category 2 (DBS,DB9,V12V)

Tier 3
Others

Have said I want one, put down a deposit, but dont expect to make the cut sadly as only on my second Vantage

Graze

Be a shame if that is the case, I wonder how many Zagato owners actually kept or even used their Zagatos rather than flip them. Hopefully "flippers" will be removed off this list

[Jon39]

Graze01 said:

The points system is real as confirmed by my dealer. Loosely as I understand it:

Tier 1
1-77 owners highest ranked with Valkyrie & Zagato, and multiple purchases adds points

Tier 2
V12 ownership gets you in category 2 (DBS,DB9,V12V)

Tier 3
Others

An interesting marketing strategy by Aston Martin. Make something seem almost unobtainable.

They clearly need to sell more core models, so if this car is so special, I would have gone for a much more adventurous plan.

Tier A - Order a DB11, a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier B - Order a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier C - Order a DB11 and a DBX.

Tier D - Order a DBX.

Tier E - Form a queue outside the Dacia dealer.

---

CEOs say publicly that they don't like flippers, but when their job is to move new 'metal', do they really mean it?

There are two DBX models, which have sat unsold at an independent dealer since January 2021. Still asking the January prices!
Presumably they were (failed) flipper purchases.

However, those cars are of course counted as two more DBX sales in AML's accounts.

[Minglar]

Jon39 said:

Graze01 said:

The points system is real as confirmed by my dealer. Loosely as I understand it:

Tier 1
1-77 owners highest ranked with Valkyrie & Zagato, and multiple purchases adds points

Tier 2
V12 ownership gets you in category 2 (DBS,DB9,V12V)

Tier 3
Others

An interesting marketing strategy by Aston Martin. Make something seem almost unobtainable.

They clearly need to sell more core models, so I would have gone for a much more adventurous plan.

Tier A - Order a DB11, a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier B - Order a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier C - Order a DB11 and a DBX.

Tier D - Order a DBX.

Tier E - Form a queue outside the Dacia dealer.

---

CEOs say publicly that they don't like flippers, but when their job is to move new 'metal', do they really mean it?

There are two DBX models, which have sat unsold at an independent dealer since January 2021. Still asking the January prices!
Presumably they were (failed) flipper purchases.

However, those cars of course are counted as two more DBX sales in AMLs accounts.

The situation with flippers is interesting though. In order for the strategy to work, you need a pool of buyers who desperately want the product and are willing to pay for it. Otherwise the chain stops, as you described with the two DBXs in your example Jon. Have any recent AM cars achieved that required level of desire? I’m not so sure they have. Clearly the situation with Porsche is different, as the MDs effectively throttle and control the market. If the new V12 Vantage is a stellar hit when the reviews eventually come out, perhaps people will be willing to pay up, but until that happens it’s a risky strategy looking to acquire one to flip it quickly for a profit. As you said though Jon, AM need to sell the cars, and they need the revenue, so perhaps they won’t be too fussy where they end up going. If I get a call or email early next year, we will know!!

Best Regards

Minglar

[LooneyTunes]

Jon39 said:

They clearly need to sell more core models, so I would have gone for a much more adventurous plan.

Tier A - Order a DB11, a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier B - Order a DBSS and a DBX.

Tier C - Order a DB11 and a DBX.

Tier D - Order a DBX.

Tier E - Form a queue outside the Dacia dealer.

I find that a sufficiently objectionable model that it would almost certainly result in no further purchases from me and a move of the existing ones to independents for servicing.

The irony is that as soon as you have tied purchases to secure an allocation you can hurt your product by polarising pricing and create an environment that encourages speculation/flipping.

Anyone buying Bordeaux en primeur will have seen tied purchase of 2nd wines/Sauternes that then get dumped whilst the price of the desired product gets inflated on the secondary market. There are some wines that you can predict with near certainty that they’ll be getting sold at 1/2 the original list price if you wait a little while.

Do the same with cars and you potentially hurt the pricing of the less desired model whilst inflating the price for the one people want.

What’s worse is the way it increase the desirability of short term ownership whilst often locking out those who really wanted the car in the first place (couldn’t get an allocation but were prepared to pay a premium on the secondary market) because they never accumulate the “points” with a dealer only interested in shifting new units. Yet those who play the speculation game, never keeping them for too long, accrue “points” for the repeat purchases, get allocation for next one, and the cycle repeats. Until someone gets greedy and/or their fingers burned.

Whether it works for the brand or not is a different story. You need people with deep enough pockets to keep placing deposits for the procession of new cars/derivatives, and suffice to unmet demand to give confidence to those writing the cheques that it’s in their interest to do so. Ferrari manage it, Lamborghini apparently used to (but seemingly some disquiet about latest Aventadors), but I question the extent to which AM can pull off the same trick without significantly increasing the desirability of/demand for new models.

Put bluntly, if you’re going to take say a £50k hit on a DBX you never wanted in the first place, you either have to really want the one you bought it to get and/or have confidence that the desirable one will carry a premium to compensate for the loss on the less desirable purchase.

[Jon39]

Thank you.
Interesting dialogue, following my 'tongue in cheek' idea.

AML must be either anticipating, or trying to create, strong demand for the V12 Vantage Final Edition.
As suggested, this might be seen a a risky strategy for a car costing (is it?) £350,000 ish.
It will be interesting to see the outcome.

[Shrimpvende]

I'm always surprised when Aston roll out the whole 'special customers only' thing as if their products are as desirable as Porsche, Ferrari or even Rolex. This isn't a post to slag them off, I love the brand, but I'm not convinced they've ever truly sold out their special production runs.

I think I said similar on another thread in this section, but rumour has it they didn't sell all the One-77's and the leftovers went into making the Vulcan. They couldn't sell the last couple of Vulcans at list price, GT8, GT12, Zagato...none of them were instantly sold out in the way the Pista or GT3 were. That's reinforced by the secondhand values, GT8's are trading below list and Zagato's are way down - collecting cars only confirms this.

I really, really hope I'm proven wrong but I'm convinced I could order a Vantage V12 without too much trouble as I don't think the demand will really be there. This is reinforced by a recent dealer visit where discounts were mentioned on cars they had in stock without really even asking...it feels like they're back to being desperate to make a sale again. As I said previously, a stark contrast to Porsche who now have waiting lists even for a Macan!!

[anonymous-user]

Generating demand via whatever pseudo magic Porsche use, or similar, is fine. Contriving demand artificially will never work.

Being a bit povvo I’m not in a position to try to get one of these without chopping in my V12VS. And there, for me, lies the problem - I’m not at all sure I like the V12FE enough to do that. Better looks than the V8 with that much improved front end, but not as classically good looking as the VS. And a Merc derived (probably not that great an issue) turbocharged engine (hmm) vs the lovely NA 5.9.