Abandoned Range Rover P38... Resurrection or Bust
Discussion
Rich1973 said:
There is a very extensive p38 thread on detailingworld.co.uk
The chap has done lots of work to his including I suspect most of the jobs you ate going to come across. Worth a look and an engrossing way to pass some time reading the thread.
Thanks for that. I'll take a look.The chap has done lots of work to his including I suspect most of the jobs you ate going to come across. Worth a look and an engrossing way to pass some time reading the thread.
ETA: Can't find it. Can you post a link please?
Edited by Tyre Tread on Wednesday 27th April 23:19
So today, while waiting for parts I got the elbow grease out:
Using some (Nuera) leather cleaner left from a previous project I gave the front seats a good clean. The difference in real life isn't really shown well in the pics. This utterly transforms the colour of the leather. There's a lot to do and I spent 4 hours on just the front seats before I stopped to grab some lunch.
I was just starting in the back and cleaned the grab handles...
...when postie appeared and delivered several packages. The first one I opened was these:
I had to fit these immediately so my assistant could do this:
The originals had rotted through and the tailgate would have been damaged if leant on without straps so it was necessary but seems like an extravagance based on my theory of only buy what's needed until MOT'd.
I then set about rebuilding the suspension air pump and the air dryer.
When I was researching the air suspension I was warned not to buy the kits to refurb the air drier as they contain the "wrong type" of dessicant, but nobody said why it was wrong. Anyone want to guess from this pic which is the right dessicant and which is wrong and why?
I then has to go and collect a solder sucker so I could remove the old thermal switch and install the new one. Then spent an hour looking for a small nut and bolt (m3 or less) to hold the component in place and then soldered it in.
Tomorrow I'll (hopefully) finish rebuilding the pump and reinstall the air valve block and pump and see what else needs fixing to get the suspension to rise.
Thanks for feigning interest.
Using some (Nuera) leather cleaner left from a previous project I gave the front seats a good clean. The difference in real life isn't really shown well in the pics. This utterly transforms the colour of the leather. There's a lot to do and I spent 4 hours on just the front seats before I stopped to grab some lunch.
I was just starting in the back and cleaned the grab handles...
...when postie appeared and delivered several packages. The first one I opened was these:
I had to fit these immediately so my assistant could do this:
The originals had rotted through and the tailgate would have been damaged if leant on without straps so it was necessary but seems like an extravagance based on my theory of only buy what's needed until MOT'd.
I then set about rebuilding the suspension air pump and the air dryer.
When I was researching the air suspension I was warned not to buy the kits to refurb the air drier as they contain the "wrong type" of dessicant, but nobody said why it was wrong. Anyone want to guess from this pic which is the right dessicant and which is wrong and why?
I then has to go and collect a solder sucker so I could remove the old thermal switch and install the new one. Then spent an hour looking for a small nut and bolt (m3 or less) to hold the component in place and then soldered it in.
Tomorrow I'll (hopefully) finish rebuilding the pump and reinstall the air valve block and pump and see what else needs fixing to get the suspension to rise.
Thanks for feigning interest.
Tyre Tread said:
Thanks for feigning interest.
No, I am interested. I plugged a soldering iron in twice at the weekend and even used some solder even though it didn't fix the problem I was experiencing. I've since managed to identify the problem and fix it. Having just got a new shed that's almost as old I am struggling with the fix what needs fixing, versus fixing things that look and feel better because I can. My boot struts are corroding under the paint. But they work. Perhaps I'll give the hinges another squirt of aerosol silicone this week.
Thank you all for your support. I'll set up the "go save me from bankruptcy" page later.
I'm going to try and reassemble the pump this morning. There are a couple of issues to overcome that I didn't mention earlier but will try and explain this evening. If it doesn't work I'll have to buy a new pump.
Fingers crossed.
I'm going to try and reassemble the pump this morning. There are a couple of issues to overcome that I didn't mention earlier but will try and explain this evening. If it doesn't work I'll have to buy a new pump.
Fingers crossed.
Thank you all for your kind comments and interest,
The pump had been visited at least once before and possibly several times. Someone had changed the thermal switch for the wrong one (rating too high) and had riveted the circuit board to the base. I had to carefully drill out the rivets and found one of the mounting lugs was damaged. I managed to drill and tap the soft aluminium rivets and put some small screws in to secure the base plate.
Next issue was that the piston should come out of the pump with the bearing and counterweight but mine came out minus bearing and counterweight and it became apparent that the bearing has been rotating in it's housing. It should have been a press interference fit but it was so loose that I could press it off easily with my thumb. I roughed up the inside of the bearing housing (big end) and sealed it in with some high strength thread lock. Fingers crosssed it holds or I'll need a new piston and pump.
I then continued to rebuild the pump and had to keep checking one of the online videos for reference to make sure everything was going in the right way around and in the right way. It's recommended that you fit the piston into the (removable) cylinder out of the pump ("to shape it") then install the piston into the pump and reinstall the cylinder onto the piston and seal. I think without the video I'd have struggled as it shows how to get the piston in at an angle and rotate it to avoid pinching the piston seal.
Once the piston was back in the last job on the air side was to change the reed valve seal. I removed the screw and took out the guide and valve (basically the two bits of metal) and it became obvious that the seal was FUBAR and had been overheated from the witness marks on the reed valve. As I removed the O ring I realised it wasn't originally black. It was red until it was overheated. Problem was that the replacement seal for this wasn't in the kit. I looked on the supplier's website and it showed the seal with the kit so I called them. They said they'd send me a replacement no questions asked. really happy with the service from X8Rltd (who do repair kits for lots of pumps and motors).
[url]
The fact that the viton rubber seal broke in two when I tried to remove it demonstrates just how hard it had gone.
|https://thumbsnap.com/McYUfK2U[/url][url]
I cleaned up the reed valve and thought maybe I'd leave finishing the pump for today and finalise it tomorrow.
I had three small O rings left over which I hadn't been able to figure out where they went. and while I was tidying the bench the penny dropped so I opened up the valve block again and changed them they were tiny fiddly little things that went on the end of the tiny valves. Sorry that, once again I forgot to take pictures. Once I focus on something I forget to take pics.
So, should i just leave it until the replacement seal arrives which could be next week? I've promised a friend to help remove the cylinder head off his Armstrong Siddeley tomorrow and to help sticker up his club's van.
The pump had been visited at least once before and possibly several times. Someone had changed the thermal switch for the wrong one (rating too high) and had riveted the circuit board to the base. I had to carefully drill out the rivets and found one of the mounting lugs was damaged. I managed to drill and tap the soft aluminium rivets and put some small screws in to secure the base plate.
Next issue was that the piston should come out of the pump with the bearing and counterweight but mine came out minus bearing and counterweight and it became apparent that the bearing has been rotating in it's housing. It should have been a press interference fit but it was so loose that I could press it off easily with my thumb. I roughed up the inside of the bearing housing (big end) and sealed it in with some high strength thread lock. Fingers crosssed it holds or I'll need a new piston and pump.
I then continued to rebuild the pump and had to keep checking one of the online videos for reference to make sure everything was going in the right way around and in the right way. It's recommended that you fit the piston into the (removable) cylinder out of the pump ("to shape it") then install the piston into the pump and reinstall the cylinder onto the piston and seal. I think without the video I'd have struggled as it shows how to get the piston in at an angle and rotate it to avoid pinching the piston seal.
Once the piston was back in the last job on the air side was to change the reed valve seal. I removed the screw and took out the guide and valve (basically the two bits of metal) and it became obvious that the seal was FUBAR and had been overheated from the witness marks on the reed valve. As I removed the O ring I realised it wasn't originally black. It was red until it was overheated. Problem was that the replacement seal for this wasn't in the kit. I looked on the supplier's website and it showed the seal with the kit so I called them. They said they'd send me a replacement no questions asked. really happy with the service from X8Rltd (who do repair kits for lots of pumps and motors).
[url]The fact that the viton rubber seal broke in two when I tried to remove it demonstrates just how hard it had gone.
|https://thumbsnap.com/McYUfK2U[/url][url]I cleaned up the reed valve and thought maybe I'd leave finishing the pump for today and finalise it tomorrow.
I had three small O rings left over which I hadn't been able to figure out where they went. and while I was tidying the bench the penny dropped so I opened up the valve block again and changed them they were tiny fiddly little things that went on the end of the tiny valves. Sorry that, once again I forgot to take pictures. Once I focus on something I forget to take pics.
So, should i just leave it until the replacement seal arrives which could be next week? I've promised a friend to help remove the cylinder head off his Armstrong Siddeley tomorrow and to help sticker up his club's van.
Of course I can't leave it like that so I used one of the old seals of the same size ( I asked the size when I rang X8Rltd) as a seal for the reed valve. I thought it might work and if not it's not hard to change.
By this time I had a thumping headache and was tempted to call it a day but I had a few errands to run so downed some Ibuprofen and went out for a while on errands.
An hour or so later feeling a little better I decided to fit the air block, drier and pump back in the car.
Before I committed to reinstallation I put the pump across the batter and the output was much healthier than it had been prior to the rebuild as I couldn't hold my thumb over the outlet and sop the air as the pressure was so high.
So, time to reinstall the parts. It's a bit fiddly getting the wiring in the right place and I dropped one of the washers and nuts down the back of the housing and couldn't find them so had to head into the garage and find replacements.
The plastic pipes are a push fit into the pump block. Sounds easy but it's quite difficult to get them to seat whilst avoiding pressing too hard and damaging the hard plastic pipes.
I connected up the union from the pump to the air block, connected the electrical plus and connected the pipes into the air drier. At this point I realised it was done and I could test it. I'd been so focussed on the individual tasks that it hadn't dawned on me that I was ready to try it until now.
Key in hand I went through the EKA process and fired up the Rangie. It still amazes me how readily it burst into life with zero cranking.
As soon as it started I jumped out and ran around to the pump to check it was running and it was but I could hear air escaping so I shut it off.
Going back to the valve block I looked ta the pipes where the noise had coming from and could see that one was maybe not pushed home far enough so gave it anther push and felt it slip into place.
Once again I fired up the Rangie,,,
.. and checked the pump which was working with no apparent leaks...
...and waited...
By this time I had a thumping headache and was tempted to call it a day but I had a few errands to run so downed some Ibuprofen and went out for a while on errands.
An hour or so later feeling a little better I decided to fit the air block, drier and pump back in the car.
Before I committed to reinstallation I put the pump across the batter and the output was much healthier than it had been prior to the rebuild as I couldn't hold my thumb over the outlet and sop the air as the pressure was so high.
So, time to reinstall the parts. It's a bit fiddly getting the wiring in the right place and I dropped one of the washers and nuts down the back of the housing and couldn't find them so had to head into the garage and find replacements.
The plastic pipes are a push fit into the pump block. Sounds easy but it's quite difficult to get them to seat whilst avoiding pressing too hard and damaging the hard plastic pipes.
I connected up the union from the pump to the air block, connected the electrical plus and connected the pipes into the air drier. At this point I realised it was done and I could test it. I'd been so focussed on the individual tasks that it hadn't dawned on me that I was ready to try it until now.
Key in hand I went through the EKA process and fired up the Rangie. It still amazes me how readily it burst into life with zero cranking.
As soon as it started I jumped out and ran around to the pump to check it was running and it was but I could hear air escaping so I shut it off.
Going back to the valve block I looked ta the pipes where the noise had coming from and could see that one was maybe not pushed home far enough so gave it anther push and felt it slip into place.
Once again I fired up the Rangie,,,
.. and checked the pump which was working with no apparent leaks...
...and waited...
... did I see the front move? No.
But then the back began to rise up... and up.
I looked on the dash and the lights on the switch were doing what they are supposed to do.
The back rose up and I thought, I wonder if the front isn't rising because it's up on ramps and the suspension is trying to self level...
and then...
the front began to rise. More quickly on the nearside at first until suddenly there was a loud "crack" from the offside front suspension...
...and it began to rise until there was another "crack" ...
... and it caught up with the other side and the who car was at mid level.
I nipped round the front and felt the pump which was getting quite warm It's a small pump and has to fill the accumulator (large tank under the car), the four airbags of a few litres each and the rest of the system and bring it up to over 100psi so it works hard to get the system up to pressure. Once the system is pressurised it should stay up and should only need the pump to top up and to increase height.
I decided to switch off for a few minutes to let the pump cool and see if the car maintained height.
Ten minutes later I fired up the Rangie again and set the suspension to "service level" (full height) and ...
...up he went... I just couldn't believe it.
I called a friend who lives round the corner (he's more excited about this car than I am) and he ran round so we took it up the (private road). It;s only a couple of hundred meters each way but was good to actually drive it and not be shaken about like it was riding on four jellies.
Mrs TT came back from the shops just as I was backing it out to take it up the road but declined to join us as she had frozen food to put away but she is clearly happy with progress.
Mrs TT made a brew and we sat on the tailgate and grinned at each other.
Headache? What headache?
I honestly can't remember being this elated in a long time and all over a tatty old Range Rover that I wasn't sure I wanted.
So, if I can fix this bloody horn I can stick it in for a MOT. Whose idea was it to put teh horn command through and ECU (BeCM) ?
But then the back began to rise up... and up.
I looked on the dash and the lights on the switch were doing what they are supposed to do.
The back rose up and I thought, I wonder if the front isn't rising because it's up on ramps and the suspension is trying to self level...
and then...
the front began to rise. More quickly on the nearside at first until suddenly there was a loud "crack" from the offside front suspension...
...and it began to rise until there was another "crack" ...
... and it caught up with the other side and the who car was at mid level.
I nipped round the front and felt the pump which was getting quite warm It's a small pump and has to fill the accumulator (large tank under the car), the four airbags of a few litres each and the rest of the system and bring it up to over 100psi so it works hard to get the system up to pressure. Once the system is pressurised it should stay up and should only need the pump to top up and to increase height.
I decided to switch off for a few minutes to let the pump cool and see if the car maintained height.
Ten minutes later I fired up the Rangie again and set the suspension to "service level" (full height) and ...
...up he went... I just couldn't believe it.
I called a friend who lives round the corner (he's more excited about this car than I am) and he ran round so we took it up the (private road). It;s only a couple of hundred meters each way but was good to actually drive it and not be shaken about like it was riding on four jellies.
Mrs TT came back from the shops just as I was backing it out to take it up the road but declined to join us as she had frozen food to put away but she is clearly happy with progress.
Mrs TT made a brew and we sat on the tailgate and grinned at each other.
Headache? What headache?
I honestly can't remember being this elated in a long time and all over a tatty old Range Rover that I wasn't sure I wanted.
So, if I can fix this bloody horn I can stick it in for a MOT. Whose idea was it to put teh horn command through and ECU (BeCM) ?
Thank you all for your kind comments.
it's difficult (for me anyway) to find a balance between what's interesting and what's just geeky detail or something that frustrated me (like trying to get the carbon brushes held back on their springs so the base plate of the pump, containing the circuit board, could be put back in place and the brushes against the armature. This involved using cable twist ties, the sort you get on the cables of new electrical equipment, to hold the brushes back against their springs, lowering the base plate until it was almost home and then removing the twist ties, all done while balancing the motor on it's other end and making sure the brushes didn't fall forward without the springs and foul the armature, with no real ability to see what I was doing) You get the picture... or not perhaps.
I haven't ventured out yet to see if Nelson's suspension had deflated over night. It SHOULD stay up, provided there are no leaks in the system...
A friend sent me the specific wiring diagram for the horn last last night so IF I get time today I'll try and take a look at that.
Do dare make a speculative booking for an MOT in the hope that I can solve the horn issue? Answers on a postcard please to:
Are you totally mad or what?
The guy with no job and 3 v8s
Expensive Petrol city
Wales
I'll let you know on the air suspension when I dare venture out
it's difficult (for me anyway) to find a balance between what's interesting and what's just geeky detail or something that frustrated me (like trying to get the carbon brushes held back on their springs so the base plate of the pump, containing the circuit board, could be put back in place and the brushes against the armature. This involved using cable twist ties, the sort you get on the cables of new electrical equipment, to hold the brushes back against their springs, lowering the base plate until it was almost home and then removing the twist ties, all done while balancing the motor on it's other end and making sure the brushes didn't fall forward without the springs and foul the armature, with no real ability to see what I was doing) You get the picture... or not perhaps.
I haven't ventured out yet to see if Nelson's suspension had deflated over night. It SHOULD stay up, provided there are no leaks in the system...
A friend sent me the specific wiring diagram for the horn last last night so IF I get time today I'll try and take a look at that.
Do dare make a speculative booking for an MOT in the hope that I can solve the horn issue? Answers on a postcard please to:
Are you totally mad or what?
The guy with no job and 3 v8s
Expensive Petrol city
Wales
I'll let you know on the air suspension when I dare venture out
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