Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?

Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?

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theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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andyfeaver said:
I do love the Facel Vega! And I have to admire the efforts of the OP to keep going with this.... many would have given up and sold it on by now!

Good luck OP - keep the updates coming!

AF
Thanks andyfeaver. I'll provide an update once I'm back home.

skwdenyer

16,178 posts

239 months

Monday 13th March 2023
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-Cappo- said:
That's awful, it looks like one of those comedy Chinese knock-offs.
The funny thing is, "all" they did was lower the roof (think Rover P5 "coupe") and french in twin headlamps to suit the US market. The rest is stock. The paint job isn't awfully subtle, however.

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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OK. At the end of 2016 the Facel moved down to Cornwall and into the care of Ian Webb.

Prior to seeing the car, Ian had estimated he needed about six months to have the car complete and running, so I entered 2017 full of hope and with a spring in my step! I began to tell friends and colleagues at work that this was the year the car would finally be finished. Surprisingly, people generally believed me!

The first task was to go through all the boxes of bits and establish definitively what we had and what was missing. Despite having the car for more than 15 years, this was the first time someone who really knew Facels had appraised the contents of the boxes. The results were interesting...but mainly positive!

Ian picked out three or four short lengths of metal bar that had carefully chamfered edges. I'd just assumed they were bits of some other project that had been dropped into the Facel boxes by mistake! Apparently, about half a dozen of these hold the rear screen in place. Steve, who had been working on the car previously was puzzled about fitting the screen. As far as he could work out, there was nothing to stop the screen falling back into the car, because he wasn't factoring in the metal bars.

Small pieces of metal bar are easy to fabricate, so this wasn't a problem. Indeed, most of the parts Ian identified as missing were small and easily made.

The most obvious issue was uncovered in the car. When it had been transported down to Cornwall, the car cover had been bundled behind the seats.



When Ian removed it he had a bit of a shock.



It's not easy to see in these quick low res shots from Ian's phone, but the back of the passenger's seat had been deeply indented in many places, as if it had been stored, back down for a considerable period on something that was anything but flat. Luckily, the seat wasn't cut or damaged so over time the leather has gradually relaxed back to its original shape. I knew there was a risk in restoring the interior at the beginning of the project (to take advantage of Howard Buchanan's skill before he retired), as storing it was always going to be a challenge.

Work 'proper' then began on the car. Apparently, the only way to fit all the stainless steel trim that surrounds the side windows, is to start at the back and work forwards. The last piece to slot into place is the windscreen and its surrounds. So starting at the back, Ian began to piece the many stainless components back together. Sorry for the quality of the images, but they give you an idea.






The problem with stainless steel is that it doesn't bend very easily and it is incredibly sharp. The polishing had relaxed some of the curves in the trim, so progress was painfully slow and careful. Each piece is screwed in place with very short countersunk screws. Some of these had to be cut down to ensure the heads would fit flush, so that adjacent pieces fitted correctly. Whilst this was slow, fiddly and expensive, the end result was worth it. As the glass was slowly refitted some of the quirky details that make the HK500 so special came back to life.





Around the same time, Ian started work on some other aspects of the car. Firstly, he fitted the sill protectors and the body colour metal trims that fit flush with the 'B' pillar. Again apologies for the photo quality



That meant he had to remove the doors (again!) to re-gap them with all the stainless trim, door furniture and newly fitted rubbers in place. As the doors are big and heavy, aligning them was no easy task.



Whilst he was at it, he fitted the door stays that had been fabricated, based on a pattern from someone else's car. Before re-attaching the stainless trims that run across the bottom of the car, Ian applied more Waxoyl to prevent any water from lying between the trim and the door and also to ensure the stainless trim has no chance of reacting with the metal door.

Moving on, Ian refitted the bonnet. Sorting out the alignment together with fitting the counter balance springs proved quite tricky, but once fitted, the precision of the work Gary had done on the panel gaps was clear. It was all coming together well!

Some of the other rubber seals purchased from Amicale Facel Holland were also installed at this time...most of them had been missing from the car since the mid 1970s.

In parallel with all this, the decision was taken to use Dynamat and Dynaliner to insulate and sound deaden the car. With a big V8 up front and twin exhausts running under the floor on both sides, the interior is likely to be on the warm side, particularly in the summer.





Thankfully, the word 'Dynaliner' is far less visible than this photo would suggest!

One area of completed work that needed revisiting was the front suspension. This was reworked to add split pins to the castle nuts and fit new ball joint rubbers.



All of this work was completed by the end of January 2017, so progress had really accelerated! Could the car really be ready in six months? Game on!

r5kdt

234 posts

184 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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you promised two updates... you can't leave it there :-)

Cambs_Stuart

2,833 posts

83 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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You can only leave it there if the next update is a big "Ta-Dah! And I've driving it daily ever since"

tonyvid

9,869 posts

242 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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Fantastic story and thread Theadman, following as a fellow-Facel-in-family man(my Father's Facellia)

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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r5kdt said:
you promised two updates... you can't leave it there :-)
True r5kdt...thought I'd got away with it! laugh

Anyway, great to see you are still reading this.

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
quotequote all
Cambs_Stuart said:
You can only leave it there if the next update is a big "Ta-Dah! And I've driving it daily ever since"
Cambs_Stuart; I'd better get writing then!

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
quotequote all
tonyvid said:
Fantastic story and thread Theadman, following as a fellow-Facel-in-family man(my Father's Facellia)
Thanks tonyvid

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Wednesday 15th March 2023
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Cambs_Stuart said:
You can only leave it there if the next update is a big "Ta-Dah! And I've driving it daily ever since"
That'll be great, but odds-on they'll be another "so we pulled the car apart and started again" again!! Are those nuts lined up well enough?? paperbag

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Second update for r5kdt thumbup

Having re-read the invoices, I somewhat over delivered in the last update! Progress might have speeded up, but it wasn't quite as quick as I made out! For instance, final fitment of the side windows didn't take place until the summer of 2017. Nevertheless, the project had moved on more in a month, than in the previous year.

During the Spring, Ian got stuck in to the issue of the centre console not fitting. By then, the transmission tunnel cover had more or less given up the ghost as it had been beaten into different shapes so many times over the last twenty years. The fit around the floor was appalling and I feared that driving through a mere puddle would result in wet carpets!

So, it was removed yet again, but this time Ian delved deeper.



What he found was the gearbox was sitting around an inch too high because the crossmember that supports it hadn't been put back correctly when the engine and gearbox had been reunited with the car a couple of years earlier. You can see the offending article at the bottom of this picture (sorry it's on its side).



Because the top of the 'box was too high, the centre console was also sitting too high and this was just enough to stop it sliding under the centre portion of the dashboard. Problem solved! Ian reworked the transmission cover, matched it to the centre console and then checked that the ashtray would fit as it was meant to.



With the centre console now fitting, attention turned to all the knobs and switches sited on it. This turned the spotlight onto the wiring loom and all the electrical items it supported. Up until this point, the front lights (which are held in a separate housing) had only been loosely held in place and had never been checked for operation. The front indicators actually utilise the fog lights which sit below the headlights, rather like an 'R' Type Bentley. Of course, if you've read the rest of this thread you will guess that this was about to turn into the next saga.

Ian sought the help of an 'old school' auto electrician who had a name for not being defeated by any electrical problem. Together they commenced battle, fighting 60 year old wiring, old switches with fragile bakelite pieces and a loom that was unmarked and conformed to French logic! I won't go into too much detail, but the battle continued on and off for the next five years!

By the end of 2017 most of the electrics could be cajoled into action, but the process burned many man hours.

Work was taking place on other areas of the car too. The handbrake mechanism had been butchered at some point in the past, so this was rebuilt to the way it left the factory...which is a bit of a laugh really! The handbrake on the HK500 was so poor when new that owners were allegedly supplied with a wooden chock attached to a length of rope. Having suitably chocked the car (I'm not sure how, if you were parking alone), when it came to leave you held the rope with the driver's door ajar, while edging forwards and then pulled the chock into the car before making an elegant departure. The chock was particularly needed if you ordered your HK with automatic transmission, as this had no 'Park' facility! At least on the manual cars, the transmission could be used to hold the car in place.

A new aluminium radiator had been made whilst the car was with Steve in Brackley. Whilst this had been fitted, it had never been checked with the bonnet completely closed, as the bonnet catch was on the list of things to do. The top of the radiator is covered by a metal shroud. Very early in the restoration I was offered a secondhand shroud from the States which I purchased because the one with the car had been hacked around. When it came to fitting this above the new radiator it was obvious something wasn't quite right...it was miles out.

The upshot of this was a repositioning of the radiator (to where it should have been) and a newly fabricated shroud.



The Spring and summer of 2017 had been and gone by this stage. Ian had been busy working on his other business interests, so progress was limited by his availability. However, he planned to take a stand at the November NEC Classic Car Show and we both thought it would be a good idea to showcase the Facel, if it could be ready by then. This led to another spurt of activity.

The front and rear screens were fitted with the associated stainless trims.





The windscreen had always been a real worry for me. Firstly, they are notoriously difficult to fit because of the dog leg 'A' pillar. Too much pressure and they will crack across the corner. This is exacerbated by the fact the remanufactured rubber is only available as a length, not as a moulded unit. Trying to make the straight rubber bend neatly around the
corner is not an easy task. To cap all this, my car had had significant corrosion along the bottom of the windscreen aperture. Gary had had to remake that whole area and do so within a very fine tolerance. I need not have worried...the screen went in fine!

Ian made up some rear seat hinges as the original ones had gone AWOL. This meant the rear seat back could be attached to the car. At the other end of the interior the dashboard and instruments were installed and the carpets were treated to some decent automotive underlay.

At this time the car was also converted from positive to negative earth. This has a couple of advantages. The most important one for me was that I had been told positively earthed cars tend to be less resistant to corrosion. The second benefit is the availability of electrical components.

A cover was manufactured for the rather strange throttle linkage, using drawings and pictures provided by an owner in Holland. Quite why someone thought it was a good idea to run this up the back of the front wheel arch is beyond me.





A cover was also made for the electrical connections in the engine bay. I hesitate to call this a fuse box, as I don't think the car has any. Most Facels you see don't have this cover and without it the engine bay looks messy.



With much burning of midnight oil the car was finally ready for the NEC.



It was far from finished (it didn't run), but it looked the part...







Sorry, I'm not sure why these are upside down!

I was on the stand all three days and the show provided some memorable highs and lows. I have to say, the full spectrum of human behaviour was on display.

The man who confided that he knew where two HKs were slumbering and then became ultra defensive when I dared to ask what part of the country they were in. I think he thought I was a dealer who was about to go and 'steal' them.

The odd person who seemed to take active pleasure in scorning what you had accomplished (sadly, a rather British trait). One suggested that all that time and effort would have been better spent restoring an Alvis!

And then the people who were genuinely over the moon to actually see a Facel in the flesh. These people made up for the others in spades.

There was one gentleman I remember in particular. I was worried he was going to burst into tears when I suggested he ought to sit in it, as it obviously meant a great deal to him. His smile, as I took a picture for him, said it all.

Taking the car to the show had a couple of objectives. Firstly, it made the car a priority and so progress accelerated, but secondly, it gave me an opportunity to gauge the market, as the amount now invested in the car was becoming a bit eye watering.




gregs656

10,818 posts

180 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Looks fantastic on display.

B'stard Child

28,321 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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theadman said:
I was on the stand all three days and the show provided some memorable highs and lows. I have to say, the full spectrum of human behaviour was on display.

The man who confided that he knew where two HKs were slumbering and then became ultra defensive when I dared to ask what part of the country they were in. I think he thought I was a dealer who was about to go and 'steal' them.

The odd person who seemed to take active pleasure in scorning what you had accomplished (sadly, a rather British trait). One suggested that all that time and effort would have been better spent restoring an Alvis!

And then the people who were genuinely over the moon to actually see a Facel in the flesh. These people made up for the others in spades.

There was one gentleman I remember in particular. I was worried he was going to burst into tears when I suggested he ought to sit in it, as it obviously meant a great deal to him. His smile, as I took a picture for him, said it all.
Totally normal for the NEC - all of it - I've exhibited 3 different cars there on 4 occasions

Frankly people can be fking weird - really really fking weird!!!!

The best bit for me is how well informed they are on total bks when it comes to whatever car you are displaying - telling them they are wrong fails miserably and they just hang around being irritating, I found the best way to deal with it was to just agree and they toddle off happy that whatever bks they thought they knew was confirmed.

theadman said:
Taking the car to the show had a couple of objectives. Firstly, it made the car a priority and so progress accelerated, but secondly, it gave me an opportunity to gauge the market, as the amount now invested in the car was becoming a bit eye watering.
Yeah spreading the cost over decades still doesn't make it any less biggrin

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Thanks for the updates "theadman". thumbup

I've always had a bit of a "thing" about European cars with American V8s so I've really been enjoying your thread.

Your car looks smart at the NEC, even if the bits you can't see need some work!

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Friday 17th March 2023
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This makes my day replacing 25 year old vacuum hoses on a 36 year old car seem trivial.

Please keep on keeping us entertained with your epic.

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
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gregs656 said:
Looks fantastic on display.
Thanks gregs656...would be better the right way up!

Mr Tidy said:
Thanks for the updates "theadman". thumbup

I've always had a bit of a "thing" about European cars with American V8s so I've really been enjoying your thread.

Your car looks smart at the NEC, even if the bits you can't see need some work!
Mr Tidy, thanks for reading this far. At the time I didn't know exactly how much work was needed on the bits I couldn't see!

AW111 said:
This makes my day replacing 25 year old vacuum hoses on a 36 year old car seem trivial.

Please keep on keeping us entertained with your epic.
AW111, hope the vacuum hoses didn't put up too much of a fight! The difference is that you tackled the hoses yourself; I've just paid someone else to do the work, so hats off to you sir!

I think there is a bit more 'entertainment' to be had from this thread yet!

Parisien

622 posts

161 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Following your thread with interest, a family member had one of these in the early sixties in Ireland.

Here's another restoration project up at auction next month!

https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-1960-facel...

zephyr6

2 posts

142 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Parisien said:
Following your thread with interest, a family member had one of these in the early sixties in Ireland.

Here's another restoration project up at auction next month!

https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-1960-facel...
Another one emerges!

‘60-something HK500 seeks wealthy gentleman for LTR and more’! 😳

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
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There's now one that needs restoring for sale on Bring a Trailer. The no reserve auction finishes this evening and the current high bid is $15,501.

Anyone feel brave enough?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1959-facel-vega-...

theadman

Original Poster:

525 posts

156 months

Thursday 6th April 2023
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It's time for another episode in the Facel saga.

Before picking up where we left off (the 2017 NEC Classic Car Show), I think the following quote might be worth addressing...

theadman said:
But, I was also aware of a potential issue. Handing over a partly finished car could be leaving myself wide open to a lot of reworking of things that were already 'fixed'. Time would tell.
Unless you work on a car yourself, or have the time, patience and technical know how to check every element of someone else's work you cannot guarantee the quality of restoration work. You also have to have a kind of blind faith in the people carrying out work for you.

In the case of the Facel, this came back to bite me once the car had moved to Ian in Cornwall. In the first three months as much time was spent going backwards as forwards.

The transmission tunnel issue was an interesting case in point. Basically, the tunnel would not fit because the gearbox was sitting too high. The culprit was the crossmember that supported the back of the 'box which had been 're-engineered' before I bought the car. Without knowledge of the way this should look, it would be only natural to think the crossmember was correct, as this is the way it arrived with me in 1999. To try and remedy the situation the tunnel itself was reprofiled to fit better and all was sweetness and light until it came to fitting the centre console. When it didn't fit, there was a long bout of head scratching.

To get to this point had already consumed a good number of man hours fiddling about and hitting the transmission tunnel into submission.

When the real cause was identified it took more man hours to undo the previous work and the rectify the cross member and transmission tunnel.

Then there were the door check straps...or rather there weren't. They were completely missing, so a kind fellow HK owner photographed and sent measurements of the ones on his car. They were easily fabricated and the finished parts were stored until the time came to fit them. At that point Ian discovered that the check strap bracket and stop that sits in the door was missing on both sides. When the bodywork was first tackled some time in the early '90s, the bottoms of the doors had been replaced without refitting the check strap mechanisms! So, having new check straps was only about 20% of what was required!



Then there were some issues around quality of work. Parts of the exhaust were rigidly mounted to the chassis, a bolt was missing from one of the steering column mounts and one inner wing (which supports the wing itself) was hanging loose.





The floor hinged pedal assembly was not bolted down, the reason being the brake pedal was fouling it and when bolted down there would be no brake pedal movement!

A number of other issues were discovered, including loose brake calipers yikes but you get the picture. The only thing to do for peace of mind was to to go through the car from front to back and just check everything, which Ian duly did.

By the time the car was at the show, all of this was behind us.

After the show, Classic Car Weekly mentioned the car in one of their write ups and I was approached by Russ Smith of Classic Car to see if I would be willing for one of their readers to spend a day in my car (as part of 'The List'). Thankfully, I put him off for a while which was quite useful seeing the car still isn't finished today!





More to follow soon.