Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?
Discussion
theadman said:
More of the car to follow and thanks for the encouragement!
If the Eric in question was Eric Philpott, he had a number of Facels, including the ex Ringo Starr car which P5BNij posted pictures of above. Sadly, he is no longer with us and EPH 4B was subsequently restored to its former glory by Justin Banks (P5BNij's post also shows it post restoration).
Yes thats nim. A lovely man, shame hes nit with us. He would tell axstory about an Excellence which De Galle used, but tje chassis twisted and they couldnt open any of the doors..!!If the Eric in question was Eric Philpott, he had a number of Facels, including the ex Ringo Starr car which P5BNij posted pictures of above. Sadly, he is no longer with us and EPH 4B was subsequently restored to its former glory by Justin Banks (P5BNij's post also shows it post restoration).
Somewhere I have a photo of an hk500 cab taken at silverstone. Gorgeous!
Panda nero said:
Dr Jekyll said:
I saw what I was sure was a Facel Vega in a car park in Hatfield many years ago, but it had a badge saying 'Delage'. Anybody know what I actually saw?
Maybe this ?
theadman said:
williamp said:
Back in the late 90s I did a brewery tour of a kent brewer and he had an hk500 in an outbuilding, ripe for restoration. And in kent someone I once knew called (i think) Eric had one, and an Aston V8
So yes please to more of the car!
More of the car to follow and thanks for the encouragement!So yes please to more of the car!
If the Eric in question was Eric Philpott, he had a number of Facels, including the ex Ringo Starr car which P5BNij posted pictures of above. Sadly, he is no longer with us and EPH 4B was subsequently restored to its former glory by Justin Banks (P5BNij's post also shows it post restoration).
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1511869
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1489438
Perhaps bargains compared to DB Astons of the period etc
In the early 1960's I was at school in Shepperton upon Thames which is close to Walton upon Thames . On my way to school I passed the HWM garage owned by George Abecassis which apart form building and racing his own cars also ran a car dealership selling not only Astons but Facel Vegas .I can clearly remember them on display and on test drives .
After 60 odd years they are still the ultimate in style and design !
After 60 odd years they are still the ultimate in style and design !
Dr Jekyll said:
I saw what I was sure was a Facel Vega in a car park in Hatfield many years ago, but it had a badge saying 'Delage'. Anybody know what I actually saw?
Mystery solvedhttps://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11095/lot/159/?ca...
Article said:
At one stage George Milligen owned two of these rare rhd Facel IIs. The Facel II was, he declared, just the sort of car that Delage would have been making if they had continued in business, and so he embellished his cars with Delage badging.
P5BNij said:
Love the grey one 
Mr Tidy said:
Fantastic thread. 
Great cars that I may have loved more if my first Observers book had been from 1964, but it was 1965 so I fell in love with Gordon Keebles instead!
I have been on the brink of buying a Gordon Keeble a couple of times. In many ways it's a better car than the HK, particularly dynamically.Great cars that I may have loved more if my first Observers book had been from 1964, but it was 1965 so I fell in love with Gordon Keebles instead!
Living not far from Brackley, I visited Ernie Knott who was the man for Gordon Keebles. He had a custard yellow one for sale at his workshop with an off white interior. It wasn't in the best cosmetic condition and Ernie wanted what I thought was strong money for it, so I walked away.
Many years later, after Ernie retired, the company that was working on the Facel bought his old workshop. My Facel sat for several years exactly where that yellow GK had been parked. It felt like a strange coincidence.
theadman said:
I have been on the brink of buying a Gordon Keeble a couple of times. In many ways it's a better car than the HK, particularly dynamically.
Living not far from Brackley, I visited Ernie Knott who was the man for Gordon Keebles. He had a custard yellow one for sale at his workshop with an off white interior. It wasn't in the best cosmetic condition and Ernie wanted what I thought was strong money for it, so I walked away.
Many years later, after Ernie retired, the company that was working on the Facel bought his old workshop. My Facel sat for several years exactly where that yellow GK had been parked. It felt like a strange coincidence.
That is quite a coincidence. Living not far from Brackley, I visited Ernie Knott who was the man for Gordon Keebles. He had a custard yellow one for sale at his workshop with an off white interior. It wasn't in the best cosmetic condition and Ernie wanted what I thought was strong money for it, so I walked away.
Many years later, after Ernie retired, the company that was working on the Facel bought his old workshop. My Facel sat for several years exactly where that yellow GK had been parked. It felt like a strange coincidence.
A mate of mine went to school with the son of Mr Gordon who he thinks still has one, but not sure what state it is in.
Good luck with your HK.
The Surveyor said:
These Facel Vega’s are so special and what an epic project OP.
The French produced some beautiful cars in the 50’s and 60’s and it would be a tough choice between that grey FV at Justin Banks or the Talbot Lago T26 Grandsport which is for sale at the Car Barn in Beamish, co. Durham
Thanks, it has been quite a journey with the HK. I was in awe of your Maserati Mexico restoration a few years ago. What a car that was!The French produced some beautiful cars in the 50’s and 60’s and it would be a tough choice between that grey FV at Justin Banks or the Talbot Lago T26 Grandsport which is for sale at the Car Barn in Beamish, co. Durham
Once again, thanks to everyone for their good wishes and contributions.
Now, back to the saga...
As previously mentioned, I've been fascinated by Facel Vegas since childhood. Over the years I've always gravitated towards them whenever they have been at shows and events. Sometime in the mid '90s the Facel Club had a stand at the Silverstone Classic (which was called something else in those days). I spent some time on the stand talking to John Barton about the practicality of ownership. To my surprise he said he had bought the entire Facel factory parts stock, so finding parts would not be too much of a problem. He also quoted some very reasonable prices, using the dashboard gauges as an example.
Thinking back to that conversation I contacted John as soon as I purchased the car. Unfortunately for me, he had subsequently sold the vast majority of parts on to someone in Germany, but he had held back some stock. My first trip was to visit John in Sussex to buy some of the badges I knew my car was missing. John's place was like an Aladdin's cave, full of Bugatti and Facel related stuff. However, there had obviously been rampant inflation in the Facel parts market since our initial conversation, so I reigned in my desire to buy just about everything I might possibly need!!
Don't get me wrong, John was extremely helpful then and has been many times since, but I just didn't have the budget that seemed to be required to dive straight in. I would have to pace my purchases.
That left a bit of a dilemma. How could I source the parts John couldn't supply as and when I required them? It seems strange now, but the internet was in its infancy. The web might have been world wide, but access wasn't. The best way to get on the inside track was via a car club, in this instance the French Amicale Facel Vega. Through people who knew other people I began to create a set of contacts that was to prove vital to the project.
The fax machine at work was pressed into service. A contact in the States sent me a list of Facel parts he was selling. Two new old stock sets of Facel Vega letters (for the front and rear of the car) and a radiator shroud were soon on the way.
By the end of 1999 I had found most of the 'tinsel' I knew my car lacked. However, there were some fairly important parts that I still lacked like door handles and rear lights! There were also going to be a large number of mechanical parts that were past their service life; suspension, brakes, steering etc.
In early 2000 I made contact with Hans Ruhe. Hans sits at the centre of the Facel Vega world. He gave up his day job to set up Amicale Facel Holland some time in the 1990s and since then has been sourcing and producing parts. His inventory plays a part in keeping many of the Facels across the globe on the road. As you can imagine, given the limited demand and small production runs, parts are quite expensive (some eye wateringly so), but at least they are available. I believe something like 6000 lines are now available, which is amazing for a manufacturer that went out of business 58 years ago after producing only 3000 cars in total.
Hans started supplying the bits that would actually make the car function!
By this time the car was with Howard Dent, a person who can turn his hand to just about anything. Howard worked on my car in his spare time. He set about the running gear. Hans supplied new front and rear springs together with shock absorbers. Howard remanufactured the rear shock absorber mounts as the Dexion that was currrently pressed into service probably wasn't factory original!
Many parts were of UK origin, which made things easier. Front and rear brakes were Jaguar and the rear axle was a Salisbury unit (and not limited slip either...which will be fun with 360bhp). Sadly, the brakes are from a Mk9 which are as rare as rocking horse poo. The XK150 units are a mere 1/8th of an inch different, but it's an 1/8th of an inch too much!
Suspension and brakes renewed and it was on to the diff. That needed a complete rebuild. I'll tell you about the car's history later and all will become clear!
So progress had been made. It was now the end of July 2000, so I was a year in. So much for having the car done in six months! Howard had other commitments so we agreed I needed to find someone else to carry on the good work.
At this point I had a conversation with Hans Ruhe. He suggested I send the car over to Holland and he would return it completely restored for £20,000. In hindsight, how I wish I'd taken him up on his offer!
For some reason I still wasn't taking photos...I promise there will be some soon!
Now, back to the saga...
As previously mentioned, I've been fascinated by Facel Vegas since childhood. Over the years I've always gravitated towards them whenever they have been at shows and events. Sometime in the mid '90s the Facel Club had a stand at the Silverstone Classic (which was called something else in those days). I spent some time on the stand talking to John Barton about the practicality of ownership. To my surprise he said he had bought the entire Facel factory parts stock, so finding parts would not be too much of a problem. He also quoted some very reasonable prices, using the dashboard gauges as an example.
Thinking back to that conversation I contacted John as soon as I purchased the car. Unfortunately for me, he had subsequently sold the vast majority of parts on to someone in Germany, but he had held back some stock. My first trip was to visit John in Sussex to buy some of the badges I knew my car was missing. John's place was like an Aladdin's cave, full of Bugatti and Facel related stuff. However, there had obviously been rampant inflation in the Facel parts market since our initial conversation, so I reigned in my desire to buy just about everything I might possibly need!!
Don't get me wrong, John was extremely helpful then and has been many times since, but I just didn't have the budget that seemed to be required to dive straight in. I would have to pace my purchases.
That left a bit of a dilemma. How could I source the parts John couldn't supply as and when I required them? It seems strange now, but the internet was in its infancy. The web might have been world wide, but access wasn't. The best way to get on the inside track was via a car club, in this instance the French Amicale Facel Vega. Through people who knew other people I began to create a set of contacts that was to prove vital to the project.
The fax machine at work was pressed into service. A contact in the States sent me a list of Facel parts he was selling. Two new old stock sets of Facel Vega letters (for the front and rear of the car) and a radiator shroud were soon on the way.
By the end of 1999 I had found most of the 'tinsel' I knew my car lacked. However, there were some fairly important parts that I still lacked like door handles and rear lights! There were also going to be a large number of mechanical parts that were past their service life; suspension, brakes, steering etc.
In early 2000 I made contact with Hans Ruhe. Hans sits at the centre of the Facel Vega world. He gave up his day job to set up Amicale Facel Holland some time in the 1990s and since then has been sourcing and producing parts. His inventory plays a part in keeping many of the Facels across the globe on the road. As you can imagine, given the limited demand and small production runs, parts are quite expensive (some eye wateringly so), but at least they are available. I believe something like 6000 lines are now available, which is amazing for a manufacturer that went out of business 58 years ago after producing only 3000 cars in total.
Hans started supplying the bits that would actually make the car function!
By this time the car was with Howard Dent, a person who can turn his hand to just about anything. Howard worked on my car in his spare time. He set about the running gear. Hans supplied new front and rear springs together with shock absorbers. Howard remanufactured the rear shock absorber mounts as the Dexion that was currrently pressed into service probably wasn't factory original!
Many parts were of UK origin, which made things easier. Front and rear brakes were Jaguar and the rear axle was a Salisbury unit (and not limited slip either...which will be fun with 360bhp). Sadly, the brakes are from a Mk9 which are as rare as rocking horse poo. The XK150 units are a mere 1/8th of an inch different, but it's an 1/8th of an inch too much!
Suspension and brakes renewed and it was on to the diff. That needed a complete rebuild. I'll tell you about the car's history later and all will become clear!
So progress had been made. It was now the end of July 2000, so I was a year in. So much for having the car done in six months! Howard had other commitments so we agreed I needed to find someone else to carry on the good work.
At this point I had a conversation with Hans Ruhe. He suggested I send the car over to Holland and he would return it completely restored for £20,000. In hindsight, how I wish I'd taken him up on his offer!
For some reason I still wasn't taking photos...I promise there will be some soon!
I thought I had some pictures somewhere.
Excuse the quality as these are photos of prints I have just found from early 2000.
This was a unit I rented in the same farm complex where Howard worked. Work is in progress on the front suspension and for some reason I can't remember, the radiator is out. As you can see, headroom was at a bit of a premium if you needed something from the back of the car!
This gives a better impression of the true state of the car. The black paint had just been flashed on over red oxide to provide a bit of protection against rust. Most of the car was micro-blistered. Note the original tool case is in place at the top of the boot...whilst the foam form was still present in the case most of the tools had gone missing.
Refurbished rear hubs. Don't be fooled by the coil spring; the car's not that sophisticated! It's one of the old ones off the front. It's leaf sprung at the rear with no fancy axle location either. Although contemporary road tests praised the car's high speed poise, more modern tests in the classic car magazines have questioned the car's dynamic ability.
The engine compartment actually looked pretty good. As a manual car it had the correct twin four barrel Carter AFB carbs (the autos had a single AFB). Geoff, the vendor, assured me that the engine had been fully rebuilt at a cost of more than £3000. He didn't have the bills though! It certainly shouldn't have been red, but maybe it was painted that colour to make it go faster! The rear axle was painted red too...all I needed was jacked up rear suspension and a couple of neon lights and I'd have been all set up for a 1970s cruise!
This out of focus shot shows the car at its most daunting. There was no windscreen as it had been smashed when something fell on the car in the 1980s. Windscreens on the HK500 are a nightmare. First you've got to get hold of one and then you have to fit it. If it is not made perfectly or the aperture isn't exactly to factory specification it is likely to split across one of the bottom corners. I had many sleepless nights worrying about this as the base of the windscreen showed signs of significant work. But more of that later.
Excuse the quality as these are photos of prints I have just found from early 2000.
This was a unit I rented in the same farm complex where Howard worked. Work is in progress on the front suspension and for some reason I can't remember, the radiator is out. As you can see, headroom was at a bit of a premium if you needed something from the back of the car!
This gives a better impression of the true state of the car. The black paint had just been flashed on over red oxide to provide a bit of protection against rust. Most of the car was micro-blistered. Note the original tool case is in place at the top of the boot...whilst the foam form was still present in the case most of the tools had gone missing.
Refurbished rear hubs. Don't be fooled by the coil spring; the car's not that sophisticated! It's one of the old ones off the front. It's leaf sprung at the rear with no fancy axle location either. Although contemporary road tests praised the car's high speed poise, more modern tests in the classic car magazines have questioned the car's dynamic ability.
The engine compartment actually looked pretty good. As a manual car it had the correct twin four barrel Carter AFB carbs (the autos had a single AFB). Geoff, the vendor, assured me that the engine had been fully rebuilt at a cost of more than £3000. He didn't have the bills though! It certainly shouldn't have been red, but maybe it was painted that colour to make it go faster! The rear axle was painted red too...all I needed was jacked up rear suspension and a couple of neon lights and I'd have been all set up for a 1970s cruise!
This out of focus shot shows the car at its most daunting. There was no windscreen as it had been smashed when something fell on the car in the 1980s. Windscreens on the HK500 are a nightmare. First you've got to get hold of one and then you have to fit it. If it is not made perfectly or the aperture isn't exactly to factory specification it is likely to split across one of the bottom corners. I had many sleepless nights worrying about this as the base of the windscreen showed signs of significant work. But more of that later.
theadman said:
The Surveyor said:
These Facel Vega’s are so special and what an epic project OP.
The French produced some beautiful cars in the 50’s and 60’s and it would be a tough choice between that grey FV at Justin Banks or the Talbot Lago T26 Grandsport which is for sale at the Car Barn in Beamish, co. Durham
Thanks, it has been quite a journey with the HK. I was in awe of your Maserati Mexico restoration a few years ago. What a car that was!The French produced some beautiful cars in the 50’s and 60’s and it would be a tough choice between that grey FV at Justin Banks or the Talbot Lago T26 Grandsport which is for sale at the Car Barn in Beamish, co. Durham
Great job, can't wait to see it done. These are beautiful cars. I photographed a wonderful electric blue Facel II a few years ago and was distraught to find that while I could get in and drive it around well enough to manoeuvre it for photos, and further distance would have been impossible as I couldn't shut the door due to insufficient room for my leg between the door arm rest and the steering wheel.
When French people ask me what my Bristol is I sometimes describe it as equivalent to an English Facel Vega, but then find that of course they haven't heard of Facel Vega either!
When French people ask me what my Bristol is I sometimes describe it as equivalent to an English Facel Vega, but then find that of course they haven't heard of Facel Vega either!
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