My bodged Citroen BX 16v
Discussion
Shadow R1 said:
Brilliant write up.
Post a link to the pictures you took in the heritage centre, I would like to see them.
Thanks, I'll get some up soon.Post a link to the pictures you took in the heritage centre, I would like to see them.
familyguy1 said:
agreed, brilliant write up, my late father would of loved to go to the heritage center as has was mad keen on Citroen's, mainly 2CV, dyane's, fourgonnette's (a member of 2CVGB and did the london 2 Brighton for years) which resulted in myself and sister having 2CV's as first cars! Later on he got into the Traction Avant. I remember him having a company car of a BX GTI, at them time (and now) I think that was such a cool and different car.
The other J leno video that is also interesting is the one on the DS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW_ERSgFRY again shows the innovative french ways of doing things and Jay makes some great points.
Thanks for sharing
+1 for all the 600 pictures inside the heritage center
Cheers, I also enjoy the DS one. I love Jay Lenos garage, watched most of the vids on YT, and now it's on Dave too. A car programme hosted by someone who actually knows a bit about cars - who'd have thought that would work!?The other J leno video that is also interesting is the one on the DS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW_ERSgFRY again shows the innovative french ways of doing things and Jay makes some great points.
Thanks for sharing
+1 for all the 600 pictures inside the heritage center
TooMany2cvs said:
Good to see I more or less managed to hide in that photo, mate...
You were too quick for me!Rensko said:
Very jealous of that road trip! : (
The tolls in France are insanely expensive. Sounds like avoiding the motorways means a slower, but infinitely more interesting journey!
Also, there aren't many BX's still doing the rounds in France. At the beginning of the year, I only spotted a well loved Mk1 16 TRS in Macon. Xantias have fallen by the wayside as well...
To be honest, we were just driving to something at a distance you could easily replicate in the UK. I think the reason it ended up feeling like one of those epic trips is a mix of the weather (which was good, largely), the scenery, the car (the fact it was 'at home' on the roads it was designed for), and the venue being better than we thought it would be. Even the £40 a night hotel was nice!The tolls in France are insanely expensive. Sounds like avoiding the motorways means a slower, but infinitely more interesting journey!
Also, there aren't many BX's still doing the rounds in France. At the beginning of the year, I only spotted a well loved Mk1 16 TRS in Macon. Xantias have fallen by the wayside as well...
We saw two BXs. One mk1 on the side of the road in a village somewhere, which looked to be in daily use, but tidy. Saw another in Senlis when we went for a stroll around the local council estate
That was a bit more battered!The French don't give much of a s
t, or at least the old school ones don't. They'll keep a car like a BX running until it dies, because they like it. Then when it dies, they'll chuck it away and buy a brand new such & such, and then keep that until it dies. Makes sense, if you think about it. Every time I go to France, I realise we could learn a lot from them!Well, I knew today was coming. It's the day I take the BX off the road. Normally I'd need to distinguish between BX's by stating it was the 16v, but seeing as that was the only BX that was actually on the road in the first place.......
Anyway, it's SORN. Currently residing in a garage, and apart from the quick trip to get it back here in a few months time, that'll be it. Bit gutted, and I know I'll miss driving it, but if I don't stop using it, the rot that is currently there will turn into major rot that either turns into a mammoth rebuild task, or even threatens the existence of the car. My Dad's GT only got through by the skin of its teeth (I expect it'd be a cube by now if I'd have seen just how bad the rot had got) and I don't want the same again. Besides, there are quite a few little niggles cropping up now, and I like my cars to work properly. If they don't, I don't get the enjoyment out of driving them.
Been a good few days for the BX though. Friday saw the editor from Modern Classics travel down to do a feature on the BX. It's a great mag (if you've never read it, hunt it down, because if you like the BX you'll probably like 90% of the other stuff in it), and which is possibly the best mag I could hope for it to be in! The photographer was great and I reckon it'll be a brilliant feature when it's done. It's not a feature on my car in particular, but more a feature on the BX 16v as a model. I went down with my mate Andy (who also happens to be an awesome photographer; Look up Lurntwubber on Instagram or Facebook (here: https://www.facebook.com/wubberphoto/ ) to see the kind of stuff he can cook up.
A couple of his shots:
He also spotted some raw images on the mag photographer's tablet, and said they take it to another level entirely. BX fans are in for a treat come January
The day didn't go without fault though. By 3pm on Friday afternoon, we had issuez:
LHM. LHM that powers the steering, brakes and suspension. Nothing important, then! Just the life-blood of the car.
This occured just as we were getting told to "GET OUT, AND STAY OUT!!!" by the jumped-up mini-Hitler failed-traffic warden security patrol executive (aka ugly little fat man with an inferiority complex) in the Southampton industrial estate we'd been shooting in, without realising it was private land. I nursed the car back to the workshop and within 2 miles of the target we had STOP lamps and the steering was starting to die. But, the BX soldiered on and made it to the workshop.
This event threw my plans for today into doubt. I wanted to get one last drive in it, taking the long way to my destination near Southampton, but the leak was pretty severe by the time it got to the workshop that Friday afternoon. When we left the angry egg-shaped man, it was just a few drips. By the time we arrived back at the workshop, it had evolved into a piss. Just have a look at the green accumulator sphere in the picture! So my plans for today were up the stter, unless I acted or changed my plans. In the end, I went back in on the Saturday, dug out some tunes (forgot just how good Feeder were) and went about finding the leak.
It didn't take long to narrow it down to the supply pipe from the high-pressure pump into the flow-diverter valve. The steering is the most thirsty component of the system, and takes more of a supply of fluid than the suspension and brakes combined! The flow-diverter valve sits just after the pump, takes what it needs from the supply, and just returns what it doesn't. It then feeds the height correctors and doseur valve (what these Citroens use instead of a brake master cylinder - they're fully powered brakes remember, not power assisted like conventional cars).
So, being that the FDV is the first port of call for the pressurised fluid, it's a pretty bad thing to spring a leak! It also required either removing the radiator, or removing the inlet manifold to get to it. Advantage of removing the radiator: You can still run the engine and watch where the leak is coming from. Disadvantage (in my case): Cooling system full of Evans Waterless Coolant, which is very slippy and would need straining and filtering before putting back in, as I'm bound to get loads of crap in it! So the inlet, even though I can't run the car once I have access, was still the way I went:
Found the leak (the union on the left was leaking everytime the pump cut in):
So it needs to be removed:
The pipe I'm going for is the one that runs just over the bell housing, almost above the starter motor. It comes over in a curve, then heads down into the black FDV.
It's a bit gutting that I'm having to remove it, as believe it or not that pipe has gone before. Back in 2008 (ish) me and the wife to be were heading up to Wigan area to see some of her relatives. Around Coventry, I noticed lots of black smoke and oil trails on the rear window. I had a major LHM leak, and had to buy £40 worth of LHM just to get me to our destination!
When we got there, I managed to locate another pipe off one of the top BX guys I know who lived (kinda) nearby. My wife's cousin drove me over to get it, then on our return insisted he'd fit it for me as he had all his tools/grubby clothes there etc. I said it couldn't be done without removing rad or inlet, but he reckoned he could do it. He'd lost some bits of his fingers over the years, and reckoned he could get into the small gaps. He only bloody did it too! Sadly, he died (way, way too young) a few months back, so it was cool to have that pipe on there and the memories that went with it. He was a top bloke.
The reason the pipe failed the first time, and the reason it failed again is because the p-clips were missing off of it. Side by side with my LAST spare:
I swear the one he fitted had the brackets on, but I could be going mad. I might have even removed and refitted it myself since, without the brackets! Who knows, but without brackety, you get fracture.......y:
Probably quite a lot in the way of vibration going on with everything bolted solid to the engine! 1400psi trying to find its' way out too.
So, new pipe on, car running again and today was the day I had accepted as reality. I headed to the garage it was to reside in for a few months, stopping on the way to attempt to grab some nice photos:
I gave up after that one, as once you've seen what other people can do, you realise there's little point dicking around with a £99 Fujifilm point-and-shoot! But, I managed to mix two of my interests together here; Cars, and Disused Railways (the interest my missus wished I didn't have!) I quite like trains, but in the same way as planes or big ships. I like the noise (mostly the noise), the massive engines, the history etc. But, for some reason, I have an even bigger interest in railways, specifically railways that aren't even railways anymore. I think it's more the appeal of trying to see history in a changing landscape. You can easily follow the routes of old railways that aren't there anymore, as many of the boundaries of industrial estates, farmland and even modern housing follow the old routes. I don't really know why I find it so interesting. Maybe it's because it's so quiet and calming!
Anyway, now that I've come out of the cupboard as a person who isn't a trainspotter, but spots where trains used to go before but don't anymore (or just 'Beeching' for short), I can reveal that photo was taken above the MVR (Meon Valley Railway) which used to link up Fareham to Alton (onto what is now the Mid-Hants Railway). Would have been a cracking one for preservation, and a shame it got ripped up. I think one of the main things that interest me about it is the WW2 connections, specifically D-Day (look up Droxford station, D-Day plans on Google).
Anywhoo, it's under that bridge.
And that's about it for quite a while. I'll get some Citroen Conservatoire pics up and update when the article comes out in Modern Classics, but there won't be much more from the 16v front until it comes back out for the 'Underhaul' (overhaul going on underneath the car.
Cheers for reading (well done if you made it this far and are still conscious) and maybe see you on the other BX threads
Anyway, it's SORN. Currently residing in a garage, and apart from the quick trip to get it back here in a few months time, that'll be it. Bit gutted, and I know I'll miss driving it, but if I don't stop using it, the rot that is currently there will turn into major rot that either turns into a mammoth rebuild task, or even threatens the existence of the car. My Dad's GT only got through by the skin of its teeth (I expect it'd be a cube by now if I'd have seen just how bad the rot had got) and I don't want the same again. Besides, there are quite a few little niggles cropping up now, and I like my cars to work properly. If they don't, I don't get the enjoyment out of driving them.
Been a good few days for the BX though. Friday saw the editor from Modern Classics travel down to do a feature on the BX. It's a great mag (if you've never read it, hunt it down, because if you like the BX you'll probably like 90% of the other stuff in it), and which is possibly the best mag I could hope for it to be in! The photographer was great and I reckon it'll be a brilliant feature when it's done. It's not a feature on my car in particular, but more a feature on the BX 16v as a model. I went down with my mate Andy (who also happens to be an awesome photographer; Look up Lurntwubber on Instagram or Facebook (here: https://www.facebook.com/wubberphoto/ ) to see the kind of stuff he can cook up.
A couple of his shots:
He also spotted some raw images on the mag photographer's tablet, and said they take it to another level entirely. BX fans are in for a treat come January
The day didn't go without fault though. By 3pm on Friday afternoon, we had issuez:
LHM. LHM that powers the steering, brakes and suspension. Nothing important, then! Just the life-blood of the car.
This occured just as we were getting told to "GET OUT, AND STAY OUT!!!" by the jumped-up mini-Hitler failed-traffic warden security patrol executive (aka ugly little fat man with an inferiority complex) in the Southampton industrial estate we'd been shooting in, without realising it was private land. I nursed the car back to the workshop and within 2 miles of the target we had STOP lamps and the steering was starting to die. But, the BX soldiered on and made it to the workshop.
This event threw my plans for today into doubt. I wanted to get one last drive in it, taking the long way to my destination near Southampton, but the leak was pretty severe by the time it got to the workshop that Friday afternoon. When we left the angry egg-shaped man, it was just a few drips. By the time we arrived back at the workshop, it had evolved into a piss. Just have a look at the green accumulator sphere in the picture! So my plans for today were up the s
tter, unless I acted or changed my plans. In the end, I went back in on the Saturday, dug out some tunes (forgot just how good Feeder were) and went about finding the leak. It didn't take long to narrow it down to the supply pipe from the high-pressure pump into the flow-diverter valve. The steering is the most thirsty component of the system, and takes more of a supply of fluid than the suspension and brakes combined! The flow-diverter valve sits just after the pump, takes what it needs from the supply, and just returns what it doesn't. It then feeds the height correctors and doseur valve (what these Citroens use instead of a brake master cylinder - they're fully powered brakes remember, not power assisted like conventional cars).
So, being that the FDV is the first port of call for the pressurised fluid, it's a pretty bad thing to spring a leak! It also required either removing the radiator, or removing the inlet manifold to get to it. Advantage of removing the radiator: You can still run the engine and watch where the leak is coming from. Disadvantage (in my case): Cooling system full of Evans Waterless Coolant, which is very slippy and would need straining and filtering before putting back in, as I'm bound to get loads of crap in it! So the inlet, even though I can't run the car once I have access, was still the way I went:
Found the leak (the union on the left was leaking everytime the pump cut in):
So it needs to be removed:
The pipe I'm going for is the one that runs just over the bell housing, almost above the starter motor. It comes over in a curve, then heads down into the black FDV.
It's a bit gutting that I'm having to remove it, as believe it or not that pipe has gone before. Back in 2008 (ish) me and the wife to be were heading up to Wigan area to see some of her relatives. Around Coventry, I noticed lots of black smoke and oil trails on the rear window. I had a major LHM leak, and had to buy £40 worth of LHM just to get me to our destination!
When we got there, I managed to locate another pipe off one of the top BX guys I know who lived (kinda) nearby. My wife's cousin drove me over to get it, then on our return insisted he'd fit it for me as he had all his tools/grubby clothes there etc. I said it couldn't be done without removing rad or inlet, but he reckoned he could do it. He'd lost some bits of his fingers over the years, and reckoned he could get into the small gaps. He only bloody did it too! Sadly, he died (way, way too young) a few months back, so it was cool to have that pipe on there and the memories that went with it. He was a top bloke.
The reason the pipe failed the first time, and the reason it failed again is because the p-clips were missing off of it. Side by side with my LAST spare:
I swear the one he fitted had the brackets on, but I could be going mad. I might have even removed and refitted it myself since, without the brackets! Who knows, but without brackety, you get fracture.......y:
Probably quite a lot in the way of vibration going on with everything bolted solid to the engine! 1400psi trying to find its' way out too.
So, new pipe on, car running again and today was the day I had accepted as reality. I headed to the garage it was to reside in for a few months, stopping on the way to attempt to grab some nice photos:
I gave up after that one, as once you've seen what other people can do, you realise there's little point dicking around with a £99 Fujifilm point-and-shoot! But, I managed to mix two of my interests together here; Cars, and Disused Railways (the interest my missus wished I didn't have!) I quite like trains, but in the same way as planes or big ships. I like the noise (mostly the noise), the massive engines, the history etc. But, for some reason, I have an even bigger interest in railways, specifically railways that aren't even railways anymore. I think it's more the appeal of trying to see history in a changing landscape. You can easily follow the routes of old railways that aren't there anymore, as many of the boundaries of industrial estates, farmland and even modern housing follow the old routes. I don't really know why I find it so interesting. Maybe it's because it's so quiet and calming!
Anyway, now that I've come out of the cupboard as a person who isn't a trainspotter, but spots where trains used to go before but don't anymore (or just 'Beeching' for short), I can reveal that photo was taken above the MVR (Meon Valley Railway) which used to link up Fareham to Alton (onto what is now the Mid-Hants Railway). Would have been a cracking one for preservation, and a shame it got ripped up. I think one of the main things that interest me about it is the WW2 connections, specifically D-Day (look up Droxford station, D-Day plans on Google).
Anywhoo, it's under that bridge.
And that's about it for quite a while. I'll get some Citroen Conservatoire pics up and update when the article comes out in Modern Classics, but there won't be much more from the 16v front until it comes back out for the 'Underhaul' (overhaul going on underneath the car.
Cheers for reading (well done if you made it this far and are still conscious) and maybe see you on the other BX threads
Rensko said:
I've never seen a LHM line "fracture" like that before. Usually it's the internal/external seals giving up the ghost and causing a small weep!
...or corrosion, of course...It's gotta be vibration stress - that's right on the crease in the metal from the bulge being formed, and just where the union holds part of it solid while the rest's free to wobble around. I'm sure Kitchski's had a good acc sphere on, but if that's shagged, there's nothing damping the pump's pulses.
Rensko said:
Saw a picture of the 16v come up on my Instagram feed - recognized it from PH! Article should be good
I've never seen a LHM line "fracture" like that before. Usually it's the internal/external seals giving up the ghost and causing a small weep! Lucky you caught it in time!
That's a classic mechanical failure; stress raiser(pipe crimp with circumferential scoring) + cyclic stress(vibration through poorly supported solid pipe mounted on the engine and fluctuating stress from the hydraulic pressure inside the pipe) = bork.I've never seen a LHM line "fracture" like that before. Usually it's the internal/external seals giving up the ghost and causing a small weep! Lucky you caught it in time!
hidetheelephants said:
That's a classic mechanical failure; stress raiser(pipe crimp with circumferential scoring) + cyclic stress(vibration through poorly supported solid pipe mounted on the engine and fluctuating stress from the hydraulic pressure inside the pipe) = bork.
Yup, that's exactly what it was. Weird thing is that I knew about this issue, yet somehow have a pipe fitted with no clamps. And weirder still, as I swear there were clamps on there, because one of them shares a bolt with the pump belt tensioner, and it can be a fiddle to fit properly.Ah well, it has them now. Next pipe will need to be one I make though, as that was my last spare.
K50 DEL said:
What's your time frame for the works starting then..... I love following this car, the 16v is an itch I'd still love to scratch.
Starting the work? Probably a year or so. Finishing? Who knows. I've got so much to do, with lots of other cars and with a business to work (also working on cars). I'm getting through my list, but I don't want to start pulling this one apart until the others are done, as that's a mistake I usually make! Starting too many at once....Have you noticed this BX GTi for sale this weekend
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
From the William Hunt collection. Owned since 2011. Complete with the original book pack with service book, assorted invoices and old MoT certificates.
V5 present
MoT October 2017
Recorded mileage 45,000
Estimate: £1,500 - 2,000
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
From the William Hunt collection. Owned since 2011. Complete with the original book pack with service book, assorted invoices and old MoT certificates.
V5 present
MoT October 2017
Recorded mileage 45,000
Estimate: £1,500 - 2,000
Rangeroverover said:
Have you noticed this BX GTi for sale this weekend
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
Wow. flashback city. That is almost exactly what my parents had when I was young. Although theirs was an '89 F. http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
Complete with the "ABS" warning from the days when it was rare and to let people behind know you might be able to stop quicker than they could.
8v I believe though rather than the 16v. Although personally I preferred the "big wing" to the 16v spoiler look.
hermes said:
Similar position with my Fulvia. Every winter I think it'll be THE winter to fix the soggy bottom, but I just keep driving it.
Maybe when I can see the road between my legs I'll stop......
That's how I've been for at least 3 or 4 years. It's not like the bottom is falling out of it, but I can either do something now and have a very tidy, still original-looking BX underneath, or I can wait until it rots away, and then have nightmares trying to fabricate sections of bodyshell that I don't have the tooling to fabricate.Maybe when I can see the road between my legs I'll stop......
I can't see the road yet
Also....Fulvia. Sweet!
Rangeroverover said:
Have you noticed this BX GTi for sale this weekend
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
From the William Hunt collection. Owned since 2011. Complete with the original book pack with service book, assorted invoices and old MoT certificates.
V5 present
MoT October 2017
Recorded mileage 45,000
Estimate: £1,500 - 2,000
No, I hadn't seen that. I do my best not to go looking for BXs for sale! Certainly a rare one as it's a really early GTi with the Sport-spec trim. Those wheel trims are also uber rare, and fetch a few quid used. Estimate is fair, possibly underselling it a bit if it's rust-free. It's only going to go up in value, though possibly not as much as a 16v would.http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
From the William Hunt collection. Owned since 2011. Complete with the original book pack with service book, assorted invoices and old MoT certificates.
V5 present
MoT October 2017
Recorded mileage 45,000
Estimate: £1,500 - 2,000
Fastdruid said:
Wow. flashback city. That is almost exactly what my parents had when I was young. Although theirs was an '89 F.
Complete with the "ABS" warning from the days when it was rare and to let people behind know you might be able to stop quicker than they could.
8v I believe though rather than the 16v. Although personally I preferred the "big wing" to the 16v spoiler look.
I think the 'ABS' bit was more about marketing, rather than a warning Complete with the "ABS" warning from the days when it was rare and to let people behind know you might be able to stop quicker than they could.
8v I believe though rather than the 16v. Although personally I preferred the "big wing" to the 16v spoiler look.
Yes, 8v, and an early one at that. The hoop spoiler is the most common type of BX spoiler, and was used first on the Sport right through to the last TXD in 1994. The ph1 16v used it, but the ph2 like mine went for the wrap-around.
threadlock said:
Thanks for the update, Kitchski. Always enjoy your posts. Good luck with the repairs!
Cheers! I'll have plenty more updates on all the other ste I'm running!K50 DEL said:
Seeing those photos of the auction GTi made me remember another BX curio..... Have you ever had one with the rear headphone jacks in the centre console?
Along with the a/c and the C pillar mounted rear speakers they were one of the rarer BX options I believe.
Yup, most mid-higher end BXs had the jacks, along with a 12v power socket (which wasn't the standard 12v size, and therefore useless). C-pillar speakers were standard fit pretty early on as the mk1s only had two small speakers in the dash, and a 'bass box'. They had no speakers in the doors at all, so it was just 4 speakers and the bass box. The mk2 ditched the bass box (possibly because it didn't fit behind the new dash, or possibly because it was sAlong with the a/c and the C pillar mounted rear speakers they were one of the rarer BX options I believe.
t) and had 6 speakers: Two tweeters in the dash, two mids in the front doors and the two tiny ones in the C-pillars. A/C.....yeah, that's probably one of the rarest options, along with leather.My 16v doesn't have the headphone jacks anymore, because I've got the folding armrest/cubby box in the middle. It bolts into the slots the jacks used to sit in.
hidetheelephants said:
Perusing the BX page on bookfarce I see DUG is for sale; do you much know about it? Seeing the propensity of BAH for absorbing a lot of manhours and miles of mig wire I'd sooner buy a good 'un and count on a good few years driving before having to tickle it with the sparkler.
Indeed, DUG is up for sale again. I used to own DUG, so I've got a pretty good idea! The engine is great - one of the sweetest I've driven. The gearbox, drivetrain etc all pretty good. The body is what was letting it down. It needs a full respray, and all the areas that had major rust repair work done years ago (by the guy who started the BXC forum) was painted with Hammerite, rather than something decent, so you can imagine what it looks like now. Current owner says it's been undersealed, but to me that's a bad thing as it's probably just gone on all over the rust.It's still a nice one, but in my opinion about £1500 too strong. I sold it for £1k to Alex Robbins, who ran it as a PH staff car, and he sold it on again sometime later for the same(ish) figure. It's got potential and I can't think of many cars I've owned which deserved a mini-resto more than that one.
BAH isn't too bad, rust wise. It's just a very original car which I ragged into the ground (I bought it when I was 20!) Some models are rust-free almost, but I think the chances of finding a 16v like that are very, very slim now. The youngest BX 16v is 23 years old, and there are 23 registered on the road (22 now, seeing as BAH just came off ticket). Of that 22 cars, how many will be for sale, and of those for sale, how many will be rust-free? I think anyone who buys one, has to go in with their eyes open expecting it to need some TLC. That said, other than the rear legs/subframe mounts, they're really not too hard to work on.
deltashad said:
A good friend of mine had one of these. A wonderful car, the running costs were crippling him so he got rid of it, was a joy to be a passenger in and very quick on the B-roads.
I'd love to see one of these again.
Running costs are pretty cheap, unless you get a run of bad luck and can't pick up a spanner yourself, but then I guess that goes for nearly all cars.I'd love to see one of these again.
When I drove it over to the garage it's staying in, I went through the Meon Valley (hence the railway bridge pic) and had a couple of chances to give it some beans along the roads I used to welly it along just after I bought it. A-B, it just seems to eat countryside roads. I've owned faster cars, and driven MUCH faster cars, but in that one I'll wind it up and go attack a B-road, only to often approach corners faster than I was expecting. I'll often look down at the speedo to get some bearing (the suspension/setup of these old Citroens isolates you a little bit from the sensation of speed) and realise I'm going about 10mph faster than I thought I was. It just doesn't happen in most other cars, and the way it can go swiftly point-to-point across pretty much any road is probably its best party trick. Even 12 and a bit years after I bought it, I'm not bored of driving it in the slightest.
ecsrobin said:
Great write up Kitch 
Allwhite Robin 
Kitchski said:
...along with a 12v power socket (which wasn't the standard 12v size, and therefore useless).
It is a standard - just not the ciggy-lighter standard. It's a DIN standard - there's one in the dash of our Westfalia VW T25, too.One of these, and job jobbed...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0042EYTEI
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