My Toyota Mr2 project… V8!
Discussion
OlberJ said:
And there's the money shot!
Stick one of those on and you'll get the engine in, your new driveshaft angle will only be going back to the current rear "boot" firewall and it will sit on top of a modified subframe.
You're still going to lose a tunnel of boot space where the gearbox will sit but that's nothing really.
Just in case you missed it.Stick one of those on and you'll get the engine in, your new driveshaft angle will only be going back to the current rear "boot" firewall and it will sit on top of a modified subframe.
You're still going to lose a tunnel of boot space where the gearbox will sit but that's nothing really.
My personal and completely uninformed opinion would be to move the engine forward. I've owned a Mk2 MR2 and there is room if you remove bits of the firewall and possibly take the woofers behind the seats out. If it's a rev 3 then they seem to understeer if pushed (I had free access to an expanse of private concrete, so played)
The reason I suggest considering the centre of gravity is because the balance of the X 1/9s I owned was sublime and despite being heavy and under-powered gave me the best through-the-twisties experiences of my life. Some folk stuck in the FIAT 16v 2L twin cam but the balance was destroyed and they were novelty but awful cars.
ETA It looks like a coupe from the pics so you don't need the storage behind the seats for the roof panels either.
The reason I suggest considering the centre of gravity is because the balance of the X 1/9s I owned was sublime and despite being heavy and under-powered gave me the best through-the-twisties experiences of my life. Some folk stuck in the FIAT 16v 2L twin cam but the balance was destroyed and they were novelty but awful cars.
ETA It looks like a coupe from the pics so you don't need the storage behind the seats for the roof panels either.
Edited by CunningPlan on Monday 2nd May 21:37
If you put the V8 in longitudinally, the weight will be moving forward, the only thing further back will be the gearbox than the current setup.
It will be an improvement, not a set back.
You don't want driveshafts running straight, they're supposed to run at an angle or it fecks the CV joints.
I have measured up the Mk2 i have sitting on my drive with no engine and if you use the gearbox mentioned above then it will go in with the driveshaft flange outputs on the gearbox just in front of the subframe. You're only going to need to modify the subframe and the boot floor.
Trust me, i've put a lot of thought into this.
It will be an improvement, not a set back.
You don't want driveshafts running straight, they're supposed to run at an angle or it fecks the CV joints.
I have measured up the Mk2 i have sitting on my drive with no engine and if you use the gearbox mentioned above then it will go in with the driveshaft flange outputs on the gearbox just in front of the subframe. You're only going to need to modify the subframe and the boot floor.
Trust me, i've put a lot of thought into this.
bamberwell said:
try this site....
http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/content.php
There is a chappy on that site based in one of the Nordic countries who has fitted his V8 using a new engine/suspension subframe. Seems to be pretty good.http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/content.php
Progress Report!
Thanks for all your posts everyone, it has been helping a lot. I checked out the a4 2008 gearbox but im not sure it would connect up to the engine perfect plus they're quite expensive! However on saturday i went to heaven (a Car salvage Yard) and found myself this….
(next to the burnt out Audi TT) A 1999 VW Passat TDI 1.9 - which is built with the same parts as the audi a4! i started to take the front apart and got as far identifying the gearbox as a 01A manual 5 speed. The Yard staff said to call them monday so that i can get a price quote and they would also remove it for me to collect later on in the week if i want it! I have been doing research on the gearbox, Paul Woods and another person use the 01x six speed manual gearbox with the ABZ engine, only problem with the 01X is that its made from aluminium which means it's weaker and can take less bhp/torque before the metal starts cracking or warping in the main bearing case. Whereas the 01A has been proven to withstand much higher torque and even 600 bhp which sounds a much safer option! (plus its cheaper for me to source this gearbox rather than the 01).
So with a gearbox on the way i thought its time to start preparing the mr2! Over the weekend i begun removing the audi wiring loom from the interior and packed into about 5 large boxes!
After removing the lump of electrics, i moved onto disconnecting the fuel tank, brake lines and coolant pipes that all ran through the centre of the mr2 so i could cut the metal without damaging anything.
After doing some measurements i worked out where i need to cut….
One problem i've come across is that there are two supporting bars in the area i am cutting, one below the rear window and one along the floor plan. I have to cut into one of them for the engine to fit. I think the best option is to cut the support along the floor plan and then re-attatch a bar along the the bottom of the engine. Or Weld a new supporting bar just in front of the engine where the new firewall will be welded onto!
As you can see in the photo i have not cut all the way down to the floor plan! And unfortunately i could not finish cutting due to running out of angle grinder discs! grrr! will try to finish the job tomorrow in the evening if the neighbours aren't in!!!
-Alex
Thanks for all your posts everyone, it has been helping a lot. I checked out the a4 2008 gearbox but im not sure it would connect up to the engine perfect plus they're quite expensive! However on saturday i went to heaven (a Car salvage Yard) and found myself this….
(next to the burnt out Audi TT) A 1999 VW Passat TDI 1.9 - which is built with the same parts as the audi a4! i started to take the front apart and got as far identifying the gearbox as a 01A manual 5 speed. The Yard staff said to call them monday so that i can get a price quote and they would also remove it for me to collect later on in the week if i want it! I have been doing research on the gearbox, Paul Woods and another person use the 01x six speed manual gearbox with the ABZ engine, only problem with the 01X is that its made from aluminium which means it's weaker and can take less bhp/torque before the metal starts cracking or warping in the main bearing case. Whereas the 01A has been proven to withstand much higher torque and even 600 bhp which sounds a much safer option! (plus its cheaper for me to source this gearbox rather than the 01).
So with a gearbox on the way i thought its time to start preparing the mr2! Over the weekend i begun removing the audi wiring loom from the interior and packed into about 5 large boxes!
After removing the lump of electrics, i moved onto disconnecting the fuel tank, brake lines and coolant pipes that all ran through the centre of the mr2 so i could cut the metal without damaging anything.
After doing some measurements i worked out where i need to cut….
One problem i've come across is that there are two supporting bars in the area i am cutting, one below the rear window and one along the floor plan. I have to cut into one of them for the engine to fit. I think the best option is to cut the support along the floor plan and then re-attatch a bar along the the bottom of the engine. Or Weld a new supporting bar just in front of the engine where the new firewall will be welded onto!
As you can see in the photo i have not cut all the way down to the floor plan! And unfortunately i could not finish cutting due to running out of angle grinder discs! grrr! will try to finish the job tomorrow in the evening if the neighbours aren't in!!!
-Alex
Edited by AlexTatar on Sunday 8th May 23:17
Edited by AlexTatar on Sunday 8th May 23:22
I love the project and the Audi V8 is an excellent choice, there is absolutlelly nothing wrong with your goal as it could be an awsome car.
it could also be a very bad car and the deciding factor is going to be the application.... So Im going to go straight into lecture/advice mode...
The extra power you will be putting into the chassis is likely to cause real issues, I suspect weight will not be a huge difference as the Audi package is light for a V8 drivetrain.... So I would recomend putting in some proper structure with tube... just patching up sections that you have cut out wont be adequate IMO.
Have you thought about drive shafts yet? getting them made to suit will not be cheap and not sure if a std one will fit your package... pleeeaase don't be tempted to cut and shut 2 shafts together.
dont worry about adding weight at front to offset the engine, makes the project totally pointless IMO if you do... spend as much time as you can planning to fit heavy items in the front, battery, fuel tank etc... if you have to cut and redesign like you have the rear the so be it!
Reseach the gearbox properly, I know the 6 speed A4 diesel box can take the torque and power, don't know about the 5 speed so ensure you check.
good luck, I will be following with interest
it could also be a very bad car and the deciding factor is going to be the application.... So Im going to go straight into lecture/advice mode...
The extra power you will be putting into the chassis is likely to cause real issues, I suspect weight will not be a huge difference as the Audi package is light for a V8 drivetrain.... So I would recomend putting in some proper structure with tube... just patching up sections that you have cut out wont be adequate IMO.
Have you thought about drive shafts yet? getting them made to suit will not be cheap and not sure if a std one will fit your package... pleeeaase don't be tempted to cut and shut 2 shafts together.
dont worry about adding weight at front to offset the engine, makes the project totally pointless IMO if you do... spend as much time as you can planning to fit heavy items in the front, battery, fuel tank etc... if you have to cut and redesign like you have the rear the so be it!
Reseach the gearbox properly, I know the 6 speed A4 diesel box can take the torque and power, don't know about the 5 speed so ensure you check.
good luck, I will be following with interest
eliot said:
I dont understand why you are cutting the body up before you have the engine and box bolted to one another and sat in front of you to take measurements and do a little more pondering?
Because that's how the OP rolls. I look forward to the post later on that says he is looking for a new shell.
Thanks for all the messages guys, will respond to them tomorrow and also do an update tomorrow.
Quit with all the negativity guys! Let's be optimistic, because you should all trust me! Trust me enough to shred a car shell into pieces with an angle grinder
(well not quite like that, bur y'know what i mean!).
Anyway, I'll upload all the pics tomorrow as tonight has been very hectic... I was using the ol' angle grinder cutting away until I was rudely interrupted by a miserable neighbor of mine who decided to give me a lecture on noise levels and the appperant law against using power tools in a domestic area!? Oh wondeful. Another loud sound from me and theyll be on the phone to the police unfotunatly (I'll have to do loud work when they're not in!). So after getting rid of them, I cut the last few inches of body work using the minimal amount of quiet tools I owned!
So even though i was pissed off with what happened (and still am) i have been quite productive. Keep an eye out for the update tomorrow! -Alex
Quit with all the negativity guys! Let's be optimistic, because you should all trust me! Trust me enough to shred a car shell into pieces with an angle grinder
(well not quite like that, bur y'know what i mean!). Anyway, I'll upload all the pics tomorrow as tonight has been very hectic... I was using the ol' angle grinder cutting away until I was rudely interrupted by a miserable neighbor of mine who decided to give me a lecture on noise levels and the appperant law against using power tools in a domestic area!? Oh wondeful. Another loud sound from me and theyll be on the phone to the police unfotunatly (I'll have to do loud work when they're not in!). So after getting rid of them, I cut the last few inches of body work using the minimal amount of quiet tools I owned!
So even though i was pissed off with what happened (and still am) i have been quite productive. Keep an eye out for the update tomorrow! -Alex
OlberJ said:
And to think, if you'd used the other gearbox...
Exactly. They ain't quite as cheap as 01X or 01E gearboxes, but would allow this engine to be fitted in that chassis with minimal cutting, with the exception of the engine to boot firewall and cross-member, which are relatively minor items in relation to rear chassis strenghth - the one your about to cut Alex is more critical.I also put alot of thought and research in to and ended up buying both that engine and the OB1 gearbox (I effectively 'discovered' the OB1 combo, Paul Woods was the first to put the two together), and the engine should fit. Yes the front pulleys will run close to the fire wall, and you'll have to remove the heat shield and any sound deadening on that side of the bay, and re-route some of the services in that part of the car, but all relatively minor in comparision to cutting the passesnger cell fire wall and shortening the fuel tanks etc., let alone stretching the chassis!
If you want anymore info, please let me know
Only just seeing this thread now, i'm guessing since there are no updates since May that the project stalled, but i'm not surprised to be honest, the OP was not going about the swap the correct way, and ignoring advice from people who really know what they are talking about.
I built my V8 Mk1 Mr2 and it successfully drives, but i did not have the luxury of the OB1 gearbox available when i started that project, it would have saved me sooo much time and work being able to mount the engine 7 inches further back, no firewall cutting! I only had the older OBX 6 speed to use but i had to extract every last mm of space to get that to work in my Mk1, in future i would use the OB1 in a heartbeat which we proved works on the V8 but will need a custom flywheel /flexplate making, big deal!
If the project is still ongoing please listen to us, ditch your OBX and go for the OB1.
P.Woods
I built my V8 Mk1 Mr2 and it successfully drives, but i did not have the luxury of the OB1 gearbox available when i started that project, it would have saved me sooo much time and work being able to mount the engine 7 inches further back, no firewall cutting! I only had the older OBX 6 speed to use but i had to extract every last mm of space to get that to work in my Mk1, in future i would use the OB1 in a heartbeat which we proved works on the V8 but will need a custom flywheel /flexplate making, big deal!
If the project is still ongoing please listen to us, ditch your OBX and go for the OB1.
P.Woods
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