Discussion
Thanking everybody for their advice...and thanks ZeroH for the PM - certainly narrows things down.
Baby Blue said:
Fearnsport are very much the bigger picture and with their own ECU sources [ FWIW I ASKED THEM TO USE WAYNE AND THEY DID]
Baby Blue...not quite sure what you mean here? Are you saying I should go for Wayne over Fearnsport, as they also use Wayne? Most have pointed me towards Fearnsport or 9E...to be clear i dont know 9E so just have nt commented
On ecu mapping as someone else said Wayne is simply the best ,hes done both my GT2 S [ old ones not 996] and produced fantatstic smooth power curves
Hes also done my 993 Cup and exxtracted enough for speed but kept it reliable
His experience is very wide .
Fearnsport have also worked on the mechanical side of my kit and ar very precise and exacting standard s ,although they now have a very close liason with another ecu man [ now i believe inhouse ] i prefre they use Wayne
I also believe as otheres have said its essential the state of the current engine etc is thoroughly known before u start ............on turbos a lak down test IMO wud be far from over kill
Good luck .................use either of the above and u wont be disappointed
On ecu mapping as someone else said Wayne is simply the best ,hes done both my GT2 S [ old ones not 996] and produced fantatstic smooth power curves
Hes also done my 993 Cup and exxtracted enough for speed but kept it reliable
His experience is very wide .
Fearnsport have also worked on the mechanical side of my kit and ar very precise and exacting standard s ,although they now have a very close liason with another ecu man [ now i believe inhouse ] i prefre they use Wayne
I also believe as otheres have said its essential the state of the current engine etc is thoroughly known before u start ............on turbos a lak down test IMO wud be far from over kill
Good luck .................use either of the above and u wont be disappointed
Just a little update. Have narrowed it down to the three most recommended on this thread, have spoke to all and there are various pros/cons. They all have a different 'philosophy' it seems when it comes to remaps. They all sounded like they knew exactly what they are talking about, which I am sure they do coming so highly recommended on here:
9E:
Pros: Real-world performance figures given on the road,not too far away
Cons: No rolling road data, price is the highest of the three at over 2grand, seems they raise the rev limiter (which I don't like the idea of)
Fearn:
Pros: Good value, over 1200 cheaper than 9E, not too far away
Cons: No road data and no rolling road (tell me they will make sure car is right before release)
Chip Master (Wayne):
Pros: Rolling road used - hence before and after data given, Good value at 600quid
Cons: No road testing (although assured not required), Furthest away from London approx 500mile round trip (and need car for about 7 hours!)
Will continue to think about it...if anyone has any further advice please let me know!
Thanks
9E:
Pros: Real-world performance figures given on the road,not too far away
Cons: No rolling road data, price is the highest of the three at over 2grand, seems they raise the rev limiter (which I don't like the idea of)
Fearn:
Pros: Good value, over 1200 cheaper than 9E, not too far away
Cons: No road data and no rolling road (tell me they will make sure car is right before release)
Chip Master (Wayne):
Pros: Rolling road used - hence before and after data given, Good value at 600quid
Cons: No road testing (although assured not required), Furthest away from London approx 500mile round trip (and need car for about 7 hours!)
Will continue to think about it...if anyone has any further advice please let me know!
Thanks
Vixpy1 said:
You should always road test, don't like the sound of that at all.
I was thinking the same thing...but think this is perhaps the official line as in reality they don't want to admit they are going to take the car out on the road and rip it to 100mph plus...the impression I got is that they may take it for a drive - in the case of Fearn...but no-one is offering the real-world data that 9E provide (or at least not openly)...but is this really worth over a grand more? 
Real road data is the one that counts. Strap a turbo to a 4 wheel drive RR (if you can find someone to do it) as they are really hard to keep cool under load.
Charlie, when you doing your Turbo RR open day with power runs???
The reson for upping the rev limiter is so the car will reach 200 mph, Base k16 and K24 turbos power tail off at 6400 - 6700 even on mapped cars.
Ask 9e to not move the Rev Limiter if your worried about it.
Mr F
Charlie, when you doing your Turbo RR open day with power runs???
The reson for upping the rev limiter is so the car will reach 200 mph, Base k16 and K24 turbos power tail off at 6400 - 6700 even on mapped cars.
Ask 9e to not move the Rev Limiter if your worried about it.
Mr F
Mr Freefall said:
Real road data is the one that counts. Strap a turbo to a 4 wheel drive RR (if you can find someone to do it) as they are really hard to keep cool under load.
Charlie, when you doing your Turbo RR open day with power runs???
The reson for upping the rev limiter is so the car will reach 200 mph, Base k16 and K24 turbos power tail off at 6400 - 6700 even on mapped cars.
Ask 9e to not move the Rev Limiter if your worried about it.
Mr F
Remap and exhaust X50 will do 204 according to my gearing calculations based on rpm @ 190mph with the stock limiter, but for simple remap agree prob need to increase the limiter to hit 200.Charlie, when you doing your Turbo RR open day with power runs???
The reson for upping the rev limiter is so the car will reach 200 mph, Base k16 and K24 turbos power tail off at 6400 - 6700 even on mapped cars.
Ask 9e to not move the Rev Limiter if your worried about it.
Mr F
ZeroH said:
Remap and exhaust X50 will do 204 according to my gearing calculations based on rpm @ 190mph with the stock limiter, but for simple remap agree prob need to increase the limiter to hit 200.
Miras, the ECU will start to pull timing before you hit 200 as you get that close to the limiter, thus reducing power, so while on paper you are geared for 204 the reality of hitting it is very slim. Raise the limiter and timing is not pulled, you will reach 200. Typical raise is to 7300 for 200 mph runs. That's where mine is set...Gary
davyblue662 said:
9E:
Pros: Real-world performance figures given on the road,not too far away
Cons: No rolling road data, price is the highest of the three at over 2grand, seems they raise the rev limiter (which I don't like the idea of)
Fearn:
Pros: Good value, over 1200 cheaper than 9E, not too far away
Cons: No road data and no rolling road (tell me they will make sure car is right before release)
Chip Master (Wayne):
Pros: Rolling road used - hence before and after data given, Good value at 600quid
Cons: No road testing (although assured not required), Furthest away from London approx 500mile round trip (and need car for about 7 hours!)
Will continue to think about it...if anyone has any further advice please let me know!
Thanks
So in summary you have a choice between someonePros: Real-world performance figures given on the road,not too far away
Cons: No rolling road data, price is the highest of the three at over 2grand, seems they raise the rev limiter (which I don't like the idea of)
Fearn:
Pros: Good value, over 1200 cheaper than 9E, not too far away
Cons: No road data and no rolling road (tell me they will make sure car is right before release)
Chip Master (Wayne):
Pros: Rolling road used - hence before and after data given, Good value at 600quid
Cons: No road testing (although assured not required), Furthest away from London approx 500mile round trip (and need car for about 7 hours!)
Will continue to think about it...if anyone has any further advice please let me know!
Thanks
who doesn't give you any rolling road data
who doesn't give you any rolling road data (or road data)
who will give you before and after rolling road data, but won't drive your car
On that basis it looks pretty obvious
doesn't it.It might be a pain to travel to Rochdale for you, and allow Wayne to spend the time needed to do a remap on your car, but if you want a proper job that's the choice you make.
How do I know ? - he does my race cars, has done for years, and an awful lot of the cars I race against (including ones prepared by the large teams).
If you look through the thread there are other people for whom the answer to the question is equally as easy
Good luck
Mr Freefall said:
Miras, the ECU will start to pull timing before you hit 200 as you get that close to the limiter, thus reducing power, so while on paper you are geared for 204 the reality of hitting it is very slim. Raise the limiter and timing is not pulled, you will reach 200. Typical raise is to 7300 for 200 mph runs. That's where mine is set...
Gary
Not sure thats right on an X50 mate. My IAT's at 190mph were well under 10deg below the point at which the car would pull timing - I can't see it heating up enough to prevent the last 10-14mph... I do believe the gearing calculation is accurate therefore, albeit I do admit that I have not actually hit 200 to verify !Gary
Once my new clutch goes in I'll try and resolve the question
937carrera said:
So in summary you have a choice between someone
who doesn't give you any rolling road data
who doesn't give you any rolling road data (or road data)
who will give you before and after rolling road data, but won't drive your car
On that basis it looks pretty obvious doesn't it.
It might be a pain to travel to Rochdale for you, and allow Wayne to spend the time needed to do a remap on your car, but if you want a proper job that's the choice you make.
How do I know ? - he does my race cars, has done for years, and an awful lot of the cars I race against (including ones prepared by the large teams).
If you look through the thread there are other people for whom the answer to the question is equally as easy
Good luck
I know from experience that if you want a rolling road print out Fearns can do this for you, but its entirely unecessary. who doesn't give you any rolling road data
who doesn't give you any rolling road data (or road data)
who will give you before and after rolling road data, but won't drive your car
On that basis it looks pretty obvious
doesn't it.It might be a pain to travel to Rochdale for you, and allow Wayne to spend the time needed to do a remap on your car, but if you want a proper job that's the choice you make.
How do I know ? - he does my race cars, has done for years, and an awful lot of the cars I race against (including ones prepared by the large teams).
If you look through the thread there are other people for whom the answer to the question is equally as easy
Good luck
The map has already been developed on dyno and road, as most decent maps have been. People shouldnt get hung up on the whole "custom map" thing.... go to any of the German firms providing stage 1 tuning files, whether it be RS Tuning, Sportec, Ruf etc etc, and they will download you a tried an tested map that will work right first time. Dyno tuning not required or provided.
That said, if you have a specific race engine or custom built engine thats not porsche stock spec, then yes, having a talented mapper who can write code and uses a dyno to assist is certainly the way to go. But not necessary for a bog standard turbo.
ZeroH said:
937carrera said:
So in summary you have a choice between someone
who doesn't give you any rolling road data
who doesn't give you any rolling road data (or road data)
who will give you before and after rolling road data, but won't drive your car
On that basis it looks pretty obvious doesn't it.
It might be a pain to travel to Rochdale for you, and allow Wayne to spend the time needed to do a remap on your car, but if you want a proper job that's the choice you make.
How do I know ? - he does my race cars, has done for years, and an awful lot of the cars I race against (including ones prepared by the large teams).
If you look through the thread there are other people for whom the answer to the question is equally as easy
Good luck
I know from experience that if you want a rolling road print out Fearns can do this for you, but its entirely unecessary. who doesn't give you any rolling road data
who doesn't give you any rolling road data (or road data)
who will give you before and after rolling road data, but won't drive your car
On that basis it looks pretty obvious
doesn't it.It might be a pain to travel to Rochdale for you, and allow Wayne to spend the time needed to do a remap on your car, but if you want a proper job that's the choice you make.
How do I know ? - he does my race cars, has done for years, and an awful lot of the cars I race against (including ones prepared by the large teams).
If you look through the thread there are other people for whom the answer to the question is equally as easy
Good luck
The map has already been developed on dyno and road, as most decent maps have been. People shouldnt get hung up on the whole "custom map" thing.... go to any of the German firms providing stage 1 tuning files, whether it be RS Tuning, Sportec, Ruf etc etc, and they will download you a tried an tested map that will work right first time. Dyno tuning not required or provided.
That said, if you have a specific race engine or custom built engine thats not porsche stock spec, then yes, having a talented mapper who can write code and uses a dyno to assist is certainly the way to go. But not necessary for a bog standard turbo.
What is difficult is understanding the whole system - for example very few people know that the 996/997 Turbo have boost adaption values and their impact, are very sensitive to cracking pressures and have a 50c IAT threshold at which point the DME take preventive measures.
What is important is what the customer will use the car for...whether that be for fast road, track or top speed runs. Tuning for fast road compromises high speed unless you upgrade additional hardware. These are decisions that you should discuss with your tuner.
All our maps were developed firstly on dyno/rolling roads, but that is no substitute for real world on the road performance.
What is important is that your car when remapped performs how it is meant to - driving the car to check the boost is correct afterwards is not testing - only checking the car against the benchmark figures is. For example a car can be boosting to 1 bar afterwards, but that does not mean it is correct - your n75 valve, plugs, hoses, dvs, cracking pressures could affect expected performance. You might be losing 1 second of performance without realising - the fact that the car may be quicker (well you would expect so) does not mean the remap is correct.
It is very rare that when doing remaps on these turbos that everything with the car is perfect to get a perfect result.
Whilst price is generally a factor you do need to compare what is actually being delivered. All is not the same.
I don't know Wayne so cannot comment but he has a good reputation. I do know Matt @ Fearnsport and he does a great job and having tested his maps before myself it is one that I would be happy to recommend.
Ken, MD of 9E
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff