Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?
Poll: Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?
Total Members Polled: 867
Discussion
I agree it is probably impossible to calculate good statistics without finding out from Porsche in Germany and all the engine rebuilders Worldwide - how many are being replaced with new ones - replaced with used ones or being repaired.
Our typical engine rebuild customer does not join PCGB, does not read Porsche Internet forums and is not a Porsche fanatic - so his statistics are largely lost to us. Probably about 50% do and 50% don't - until their engine fails then most do consult the internet but do not participate in postings.
Because I don't know how many others are fixing or replacing engines - I cannot help and our own numbers are too small as a part of the whole to pay attention to.
It is clearly at a much higher level than previous Porsche engines - but then they sold more too. Taking everything into account (including how many of the older engines we used to repair compared to the numbers sold) - I would guess they are failing at a rate of about 10 times more often - but I expect that number to increase with age (as many of the older cars managed over 250K on the same engines) only time will tell.
I don't think Porsche could have maintained the comparative performance if they had made the new engines as robustly as the old ones and then they would have had to run them too rich to get suitable performance out of them and would not then be able to export them to the USA etc.
For my money - the only problem with owning one of these otherwise brilliant cars is the lack of support from the manufacturer when they do go wrong.
Baz
Our typical engine rebuild customer does not join PCGB, does not read Porsche Internet forums and is not a Porsche fanatic - so his statistics are largely lost to us. Probably about 50% do and 50% don't - until their engine fails then most do consult the internet but do not participate in postings.
Because I don't know how many others are fixing or replacing engines - I cannot help and our own numbers are too small as a part of the whole to pay attention to.
It is clearly at a much higher level than previous Porsche engines - but then they sold more too. Taking everything into account (including how many of the older engines we used to repair compared to the numbers sold) - I would guess they are failing at a rate of about 10 times more often - but I expect that number to increase with age (as many of the older cars managed over 250K on the same engines) only time will tell.
I don't think Porsche could have maintained the comparative performance if they had made the new engines as robustly as the old ones and then they would have had to run them too rich to get suitable performance out of them and would not then be able to export them to the USA etc.
For my money - the only problem with owning one of these otherwise brilliant cars is the lack of support from the manufacturer when they do go wrong.
Baz
No problem with that Globs - I think it is far too long.
Not only does oil and coolant loose quality over time but things like exhaust leaks and radiators weeping etc can result in wrong mixtures and loss of coolant pressure (which allows bubbling or localised boiling at temperatures it was previously running OK at).
This is why we did not exploit the new longer service intervals under our Lifetime Maintenance Plan and believe that 12 months is the maximum safe period between inspecting and servicing the car - even though it costs us 50% more to do it.
Baz.
Not only does oil and coolant loose quality over time but things like exhaust leaks and radiators weeping etc can result in wrong mixtures and loss of coolant pressure (which allows bubbling or localised boiling at temperatures it was previously running OK at).
This is why we did not exploit the new longer service intervals under our Lifetime Maintenance Plan and believe that 12 months is the maximum safe period between inspecting and servicing the car - even though it costs us 50% more to do it.
Baz.
There are lots of problems trying to obtain statistics - perhaps the most obvious of all being that many engines are being driven around today with a scored bore or a weakened cylinder due to crack - that the owner has yet to experience enough symptoms of to take somewhere to investigate and find out.
The worrying thing is that two UK engine rebuilders (one a direct compatitor) claim that the later 3.6 and 3.8 engines are "pretty well trouble free" - yet we are getting far higher numbers of these through for scored bores than we even did for all the other problems afflicting the previous models (cracked "D" chunks, IMS failures, cracked heads etc) and as they are newer and have covered fewer miles (and are already failing in greater numbers than before) those optimistic conclusions are so far from reality as to be totally misleading.
Baz
The worrying thing is that two UK engine rebuilders (one a direct compatitor) claim that the later 3.6 and 3.8 engines are "pretty well trouble free" - yet we are getting far higher numbers of these through for scored bores than we even did for all the other problems afflicting the previous models (cracked "D" chunks, IMS failures, cracked heads etc) and as they are newer and have covered fewer miles (and are already failing in greater numbers than before) those optimistic conclusions are so far from reality as to be totally misleading.
Baz
hartech said:
There are lots of problems trying to obtain statistics - perhaps the most obvious of all being that many engines are being driven around today with a scored bore or a weakened cylinder due to crack - that the owner has yet to experience enough symptoms of to take somewhere to investigate and find out.
The worrying thing is that two UK engine rebuilders (one a direct compatitor) claim that the later 3.6 and 3.8 engines are "pretty well trouble free" - yet we are getting far higher numbers of these through for scored bores than we even did for all the other problems afflicting the previous models (cracked "D" chunks, IMS failures, cracked heads etc) and as they are newer and have covered fewer miles (and are already failing in greater numbers than before) those optimistic conclusions are so far from reality as to be totally misleading.
Baz
So if someone held a water pistol to your head and said pick one that's least likely to fail. You suggest a high mile 3.4?The worrying thing is that two UK engine rebuilders (one a direct compatitor) claim that the later 3.6 and 3.8 engines are "pretty well trouble free" - yet we are getting far higher numbers of these through for scored bores than we even did for all the other problems afflicting the previous models (cracked "D" chunks, IMS failures, cracked heads etc) and as they are newer and have covered fewer miles (and are already failing in greater numbers than before) those optimistic conclusions are so far from reality as to be totally misleading.
Baz
(this would make me happy. Those are the only ones I could afford)
where is this thread going?
performance engine eh?
heres a bit of advice
buy one if its had all the liners done and anything else that is out of spec for what we now know to be a problem or budget to have to do this.
Ims bearing to be the later one and depending on the miles that all the components up to rebuild spec when the engine was taken down
any other option is a gamble and before someone pipes up and says about a warranty don't because by the time you pay for that and the servicing to keep all you ducks in a line its gonna cost you 3K a year
thats a new rebuild every 3 years in money
these cars will no longer be a viable option soon to pay out all that per year and if they have not had the work done nobody will want one
Ive got one!
performance engine eh?
heres a bit of advice
buy one if its had all the liners done and anything else that is out of spec for what we now know to be a problem or budget to have to do this.
Ims bearing to be the later one and depending on the miles that all the components up to rebuild spec when the engine was taken down
any other option is a gamble and before someone pipes up and says about a warranty don't because by the time you pay for that and the servicing to keep all you ducks in a line its gonna cost you 3K a year
thats a new rebuild every 3 years in money
these cars will no longer be a viable option soon to pay out all that per year and if they have not had the work done nobody will want one
Ive got one!
nelly997s said:
where is this thread going?
performance engine eh?
heres a bit of advice
buy one if its had all the liners done and anything else that is out of spec for what we now know to be a problem or budget to have to do this.
Ims bearing to be the later one and depending on the miles that all the components up to rebuild spec when the engine was taken down
any other option is a gamble and before someone pipes up and says about a warranty don't because by the time you pay for that and the servicing to keep all you ducks in a line its gonna cost you 3K a year
thats a new rebuild every 3 years in money
these cars will no longer be a viable option soon to pay out all that per year and if they have not had the work done nobody will want one
Ive got one!
I wonder if people in the US will be sticking an LS7 or something in them sometime?performance engine eh?
heres a bit of advice
buy one if its had all the liners done and anything else that is out of spec for what we now know to be a problem or budget to have to do this.
Ims bearing to be the later one and depending on the miles that all the components up to rebuild spec when the engine was taken down
any other option is a gamble and before someone pipes up and says about a warranty don't because by the time you pay for that and the servicing to keep all you ducks in a line its gonna cost you 3K a year
thats a new rebuild every 3 years in money
these cars will no longer be a viable option soon to pay out all that per year and if they have not had the work done nobody will want one
Ive got one!
Some do to the old air-cooled ones, apparently they fit quite well.. the rest of the cars pretty sweet so why not?
3 x 997's. (1 x 05 plate, 1 x 55 plate and current 57 plate)
No engine failures. No Leaks. No Overheating. No loss of Performance (albeit the steering loosens up past say 20,000 miles). No electrical problems (I do use the Porsche battery charger thingie thou). No IMS failures. No Radiator problems. Current 57 plate car (14K miles) uses less oil per 2000 mile driven that previous older 2 cars (Motorway/A road combo).
I MAF sensor replaced on 55 plate car....although that was a bit of epic to identify that particular problem with the OPC.
Some of the stuff on here about 997 engines, really surprises me........ questionable on how they have been looked after/service history etc??
Totally agree about the long service interval and many owners get additional minor service whether the OPC says so or not......
No engine failures. No Leaks. No Overheating. No loss of Performance (albeit the steering loosens up past say 20,000 miles). No electrical problems (I do use the Porsche battery charger thingie thou). No IMS failures. No Radiator problems. Current 57 plate car (14K miles) uses less oil per 2000 mile driven that previous older 2 cars (Motorway/A road combo).
I MAF sensor replaced on 55 plate car....although that was a bit of epic to identify that particular problem with the OPC.
Some of the stuff on here about 997 engines, really surprises me........ questionable on how they have been looked after/service history etc??
Totally agree about the long service interval and many owners get additional minor service whether the OPC says so or not......
Thanks my fellow BWFC supporter - that just goes to show what I always point out - that failures are statistically low in numbers - some are related to how they are driven and cared for - some unfortunately are not.
The 997 mainly has failures of scored bores (due to the oil film between the thrust face and the piston being inadequate due to high temperatures and low viscosity), but crankshaft shells will not last like they did on the older air cooled and 4 cylinder cars due to being much smaller and thinner.
Baz
The 997 mainly has failures of scored bores (due to the oil film between the thrust face and the piston being inadequate due to high temperatures and low viscosity), but crankshaft shells will not last like they did on the older air cooled and 4 cylinder cars due to being much smaller and thinner.
Baz
hartech said:
Thanks my fellow BWFC supporter - that just goes to show what I always point out - that failures are statistically low in numbers - some are related to how they are driven and cared for - some unfortunately are not.
The 997 mainly has failures of scored bores (due to the oil film between the thrust face and the piston being inadequate due to high temperatures and low viscosity), but crankshaft shells will not last like they did on the older air cooled and 4 cylinder cars due to being much smaller and thinner.
Baz
..Well hopefully my current car remains free of any issues... I see your sign is back up at the Reebok too! ..things must be looking up then! The 997 mainly has failures of scored bores (due to the oil film between the thrust face and the piston being inadequate due to high temperatures and low viscosity), but crankshaft shells will not last like they did on the older air cooled and 4 cylinder cars due to being much smaller and thinner.
Baz
I hope yours is trouble free too, but if not you know where we are.
The sign was up there all the time - they just moved it a bit I think - thank goodness we had something to celebrate last time (about time too).
We are developing a second offering to add to the lower temperature thermostat - to reduce the chance of engine failures even further without the need to strip and rebuild the engine - may be a few months off releasing yet - but keep and eye on it - it could make a big difference.
Baz
The sign was up there all the time - they just moved it a bit I think - thank goodness we had something to celebrate last time (about time too).
We are developing a second offering to add to the lower temperature thermostat - to reduce the chance of engine failures even further without the need to strip and rebuild the engine - may be a few months off releasing yet - but keep and eye on it - it could make a big difference.
Baz
daveco said:
I was thinking about buying a well loved 996. Would an engine rebuild be always be documented as such? i.e. could it be described as something else?
Not sure what you mean there? Why would somebody go to the trouble of hiding a 996 engine rebuild? It's usually a good selling point. But if it was done on the cheap by somebody unreputable I guess they could document it as anything they wanted or more likely not document it at all. HoHoHo said:
This thread was a result of comments suggesting Porsche had a significant number of engine failures (one quote was 'it happens to them all' or words to that effect) which it would appear (based on figures in so far) as not being the case.
I dont understand this attitude. I wouldnt expect any internal engine failiure in a properly serviced modern car before 100k miles and probably 150 to 200. So whether the figue is 10% or 5% or even 2%, itsa surely unacceptable.100 bhp/litre on the common spec cars is hardly an exotic high output engine.
Edited by bordseye on Sunday 27th November 21:15
bordseye said:
HoHoHo said:
This thread was a result of comments suggesting Porsche had a significant number of engine failures (one quote was 'it happens to them all' or words to that effect) which it would appear (based on figures in so far) as not being the case.
I dont understand this attitude. I wouldnt expect any internal engine failiure in a properly serviced modern car before 100k miles and probably 150 to 200. So whether the figue is 10% or 5% or even 2%, itsa surely unacceptable.As it happens the percentage is higher than I thought it would be but at the same time I do not believe it's representative of the real figure in the real world.
I can't remember the exact figure, but there have been somewhere around a couple of hundred thousand 997's sold with suspect engines and I can't remember them being featured on Watchdog or similar because there's a major design fault affecting owners.
I'm not suggesting there may not be a problem, but depending on who you talk to in the trade, some make it their aim to find and eliminate the cause, others say the problem is not as widespread as might be thought, go drive it and the chances are extremely high that you won't have a problem.
As I said, no attitude, simply trying to establish what's what.
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