I've just bought some poverty Pork…

[Luke.]

Went to view this today.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031...

In pretty good nick on the whole. However the clamshell didn't sit flush with the bodywork when the roof was open. Anyone know if that's an easy fix/common problem?

Ta.

[snotrag]

The roof and the rear clam shell is driven by rods attached to a large cam - the plastic rod ends often break or dislodge, I would hazard a guess its related to that. With the roof in the halfway position you can see how it all works. There are also adjustable stops too as I recall


Replacement rod ends are cheap and it's all pretty simple for a DIYer but not a job to hand over to a garage if you don't have the skills, you'll be paying for time spent "faffing".

It wouldn't put me off personally if that was all you could find wrong.

[TROOPER88]

Luke. said:

Went to view this today.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031...

In pretty good nick on the whole. However the clamshell didn't sit flush with the bodywork when the roof was open. Anyone know if that's an easy fix/common problem?

Ta.

GT One are a very well respected Indy and if it was a simple fix, they would do it.

I am a 986 specialist with my workshop being only 3 miles from GT One funnily enough.

The clam journey is identical when opening the roof and closing the roof. If the clam closes perfectly with the roof closed, this tells you that it is the roof itself causing the issue.

It is extremely common and is usually where the roof material has become stiff.


Hope this helps


Paul

[barryrs]

I’ve decided to bite the bullet and replace my exhaust manifolds with the stainless pair I purchased a few months ago.

Got the bumper, heat shields and back boxes off the other day and might tackle the manifold to cat brackets today. In most cases the bolts have completely disintegrated so I will cut them off and drill them out so I can fit new nuts and bolts. That leaves me with the manifolds which will be a pain but it will take as long as it takes.

As usual the scope has crept as I also have braided lines to replace the brake pipe that passes over the engine along with new flex’s and calliper lines.

I was also planning a gearbox service soon and whilst looking the other day I think I also need replacement diff output shaft seals!

[Smollet]

barryrs said:

I’ve decided to bite the bullet and replace my exhaust manifolds with the stainless pair I purchased a few months ago.

Got the bumper, heat shields and back boxes off the other day and might tackle the manifold to cat brackets today. In most cases the bolts have completely disintegrated so I will cut them off and drill them out so I can fit new nuts and bolts. That leaves me with the manifolds which will be a pain but it will take as long as it takes.

As usual the scope has crept as I also have braided lines to replace the brake pipe that passes over the engine along with new flex’s and calliper lines.

I was also planning a gearbox service soon and whilst looking the other day I think I also need replacement diff output shaft seals!

There’s a template you can buy that aids the fitting of the new studs. You’ll need it.

[eltax91]

Smollet said:

There’s a template you can buy that aids the fitting of the new studs. You’ll need it.

A stomski jig. Some owners rent them. Assuming some of the bolts actually come out ok, then you’ll be able to fit the jig to assist with the drilling of the others

Did mine overhead, with a battery drill. Nightmare job

[barryrs]

Started with the OS

5 snapped bolts and 1 head drilled off!

This is a test fit with 4 newly threaded bolts with 2 left to do but I’m knackered so called it a day.



As expected an awful job all round

[shalmaneser]

Get the best drill bits you can. I had to drill out 6 snapped bolts. Went much faster after I bought some fancy drill bits!

[vinnie07]

Sorry if I am posting in the wrong section a fellow member pointed me in this direction.

I've decided to purchase a Boxster or Cayman 987 2.7L (me and the missus in dispute as to which ha ha)

I initially asked what owners mpg generally was when driven sensibly. Is one of the Boxster or Cayman slightly more efficient than the other?
Or is it negligible? I have a budget of around 16-17k but looking for low mileage sub 40k if possible as we generally keep our cars a while and it will be driven daily. The .2 2.9 version is also within budget at stretch, are they more thirsty than the .1 model being a slightly larger engine?

Prior to purchasing I will use Click Mechanic to do a pre purchase inspection on the car but is there anything in particular I should be especially looking out for when purchasing these cars?

Many thanks

[ATM]

vinnie07 said:

Sorry if I am posting in the wrong section a fellow member pointed me in this direction.

I've decided to purchase a Boxster or Cayman 987 2.7L (me and the missus in dispute as to which ha ha)

I initially asked what owners mpg generally was when driven sensibly. Is one of the Boxster or Cayman slightly more efficient than the other?
Or is it negligible? I have a budget of around 16-17k but looking for low mileage sub 40k if possible as we generally keep our cars a while and it will be driven daily. The .2 2.9 version is also within budget at stretch, are they more thirsty than the .1 model being a slightly larger engine?

Prior to purchasing I will use Click Mechanic to do a pre purchase inspection on the car but is there anything in particular I should be especially looking out for when purchasing these cars?

Many thanks

The gen 1 and gen 2 engines are very different. I'd suggest you go for the gen 2 if you can afford it. Although there are 2 gen 2 engines where one is 2.9 and one is 3.4 and these are also different.

There might also be a road tax difference so if running costs are a concern I'd check this too. I believe some early gen 1 2.7 cars are 660 road tax. Generally every generation so gen 1 and then gen 2 get more and more economical and therefore produce less emissions and therefore cost less road tax.

Most hardened and experienced owners here will tell you fuel costs are irrelevant compared to everything else. If you get some big 1000 to 2000 bills then saving 30 per month on fuel could seem a bit insignificant.

I'd recommend a gen 2 over a gen 1 because of the different engines. And also gen 2 carries a premium because lots of better educated buyers know the difference and want a gen 2 for this very reason.

So even though this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to buying an older Porsche in the poverty end of the market - hence the thread name - I hope this helps.

[Escy]

ATM said:

Most hardened and experienced owners here will tell you fuel costs are irrelevant compared to everything else. If you get some big 1000 to 2000 bills then saving 30 per month on fuel could seem a bit insignificant.

I was thinking that, questioning an MPG difference between a Cayman or a Boxster seems a bit naive to the reality of owning one, especially if it's a daily driver where instant fixes are needed. Even if you do buy a nice low mileage example I expect you'll get some fat bills coming your way eventually. Things like the corroded water pipe problem is due to age rather than mileage. I'd focus on finding a nice example over just low mileage.

If you are paying for an inspection, I'd recommend you get a Porsche specialist to check it over. I once saw a report from a company that deal with all cars, forensic detail on all the stone chips but they missed some important stuff. I found 3 or 4 issues not on their report that should have been.

[2Btoo]

vinnie07 said:

Sorry if I am posting in the wrong section a fellow member pointed me in this direction.

I've decided to purchase a Boxster or Cayman 987 2.7L (me and the missus in dispute as to which ha ha)

I initially asked what owners mpg generally was when driven sensibly. Is one of the Boxster or Cayman slightly more efficient than the other?
Or is it negligible? I have a budget of around 16-17k but looking for low mileage sub 40k if possible as we generally keep our cars a while and it will be driven daily. The .2 2.9 version is also within budget at stretch, are they more thirsty than the .1 model being a slightly larger engine?

Prior to purchasing I will use Click Mechanic to do a pre purchase inspection on the car but is there anything in particular I should be especially looking out for when purchasing these cars?

Many thanks

I did something very similar about 3 years ago and ended up with a 987.1 2.7 Cayman.

ATM is right when he says that .2 (or 'gen 2') 987's have more robust engines as the .1 has a bad reputation for bore scoring on the 3.4 engines. Whether the reputation is deserved or not is much discussed, but the 987.1 2.7 engine is a very robust unit and highly unlikely to give problems of any kind when properly serviced. Baz Hart of Hartech (a guru on Porsche engines) described the 987.1 2.7 as being 'bombproof', so I'd lose no sleep on that front.

You asked about MPG. My car shows 34.4mpg on the dashboard at the moment as an average over the last 18 months or so and this is pretty much spot on. That's mixed driving, although I know it's lower on shorter journeys. It drops by about 10% in the winter months (all cars do). There may be a scrap of difference in MPG between Boxster and Cayman but it will be only the tiniest scrap.

What is important is buying a good example. Buy the best you can find (which is not necessarily the lowest mileage nor the most expensive.) Mine had just under 100,000 on the clock when I bought it and it's now about 125,000. It has cost me a bit of money but I DIY all my maintenance which has made it cheap to run. As an example, I've spent about £300 on front end coolant pipework, about £400 on new suspension, £90 or so on a water pump and probably £200 on coil packs and spark plugs. Oh and £40 on a second-hard set of injector rails. Plus servicing costs. If you are practical then working on these cars is quite possible and they don't need specialist tools (other than a code reader, which is extremely useful).

Best advice for you would be to read every buying guide you can find and search out good cars to buy. Also I'd not bother with Click Mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection as these cars are a bit specialist and a specialist garage will know what to look for where Click Mechanic won't. If you put your location in your profile then people will be able to recommend local garages to you for an inspection, or a kind PHer may even come and cat an eye over it an example for you for some beer money. If you are local to Cheltenham then I'd be happy to oblige.

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

Most hardened and experienced owners here will tell you fuel costs are irrelevant compared to everything else. If you get some big 1000 to 2000 bills then saving 30 per month on fuel could seem a bit insignificant.

Spot on.

To be blunt, OP, if you're planning to DD an old Porsche a few MPG either way will be the last of your concerns.

[vinnie07]

ATM said:

The gen 1 and gen 2 engines are very different. I'd suggest you go for the gen 2 if you can afford it. Although there are 2 gen 2 engines where one is 2.9 and one is 3.4 and these are also different.

There might also be a road tax difference so if running costs are a concern I'd check this too. I believe some early gen 1 2.7 cars are 660 road tax. Generally every generation so gen 1 and then gen 2 get more and more economical and therefore produce less emissions and therefore cost less road tax.

Most hardened and experienced owners here will tell you fuel costs are irrelevant compared to everything else. If you get some big 1000 to 2000 bills then saving 30 per month on fuel could seem a bit insignificant.

I'd recommend a gen 2 over a gen 1 because of the different engines. And also gen 2 carries a premium because lots of better educated buyers know the difference and want a gen 2 for this very reason.

So even though this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to buying an older Porsche in the poverty end of the market - hence the thread name - I hope this helps.

Cheers ATM I will look towards the gen 2 987. Thanks for your invaluable advice as a total Porsche novice there is a lot to learn

[vinnie07]

[quote=2Btoo]

I did something very similar about 3 years ago and ended up with a 987.1 2.7 Cayman.

ATM is right when he says that .2 (or 'gen 2') 987's have more robust engines as the .1 has a bad reputation for bore scoring on the 3.4 engines. Whether the reputation is deserved or not is much discussed, but the 987.1 2.7 engine is a very robust unit and highly unlikely to give problems of any kind when properly serviced. Baz Hart of Hartech (a guru on Porsche engines) described the 987.1 2.7 as being 'bombproof', so I'd lose no sleep on that front.

You asked about MPG. My car shows 34.4mpg on the dashboard at the moment as an average over the last 18 months or so and this is pretty much spot on. That's mixed driving, although I know it's lower on shorter journeys. It drops by about 10% in the winter months (all cars do). There may be a scrap of difference in MPG between Boxster and Cayman but it will be only the tiniest scrap.

What is important is buying a good example. Buy the best you can find (which is not necessarily the lowest mileage nor the most expensive.) Mine had just under 100,000 on the clock when I bought it and it's now about 125,000. It has cost me a bit of money but I DIY all my maintenance which has made it cheap to run. As an example, I've spent about £300 on front end coolant pipework, about £400 on new suspension, £90 or so on a water pump and probably £200 on coil packs and spark plugs. Oh and £40 on a second-hard set of injector rails. Plus servicing costs. If you are practical then working on these cars is quite possible and they don't need specialist tools (other than a code reader, which is extremely useful).

Best advice for you would be to read every buying guide you can find and search out good cars to buy. Also I'd not bother with Click Mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection as these cars are a bit specialist and a specialist garage will know what to look for where Click Mechanic won't. If you put your location in your profile then people will be able to recommend local garages to you for an inspection, or a kind PHer may even come and cat an eye over it an example for you for some beer money. If you are local to Cheltenham then I'd be happy to oblige.

Thank you for your sound advice there it is most helpful. Your mpg average over the last 18 months is much better than I expected to be honest, I was just worried about constantly returning low 20's from one when driven sensibly but that doesn't seem to be the case. The running costs you have experienced over 25,000 miles doesn't sound so bad either I was starting to wonder if they are big money pit's with some of the comments I have read so I am pleased to know when serviced regular etc they are not as I have always loved these cars.
Great advice regarding the pre purchase inspection I will look into a specialist Porsche inspection as when buying at the lower end like I will be you cannot be too careful.

[Escy]

vinnie07 said:

Thank you for your sound advice there it is most helpful. Your mpg average over the last 18 months is much better than I expected to be honest, I was just worried about constantly returning low 20's from one when driven sensibly but that doesn't seem to be the case. The running costs you have experienced over 25,000 miles doesn't sound so bad either I was starting to wonder if they are big money pit's with some of the comments I have read so I am pleased to know when serviced regular etc they are not as I have always loved these cars.
Great advice regarding the pre purchase inspection I will look into a specialist Porsche inspection as when buying at the lower end like I will be you cannot be too careful.

I wouldn't put too much faith in that MPG figure, think it's higher than even Porsche quote. I'd expect closer to mid 20's for MPG. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Also, if you aren't working on the car yourself, they are expensive to maintain. I've just looked through my last Boxster's invoices from a Porsche specialist to give you a more realistic idea on running costs.

Water pump and aux belt - £550 (2021, 115k)
Supply and fit inner outer tie rods/track rods (pair), gear cables, bank 1 adjuster, roof ball joint - £1200 (2021, 110k)
Sachs clutch kit and RMS seal, supply and fit window reg - £1200 (2020, 95k)
Misfire investigation (replace cam actuators amongst other stuff) - £600 (2016, 65k)
Rectify water ingress issue - £1400 (2015, 62k)
Replacing rear silencer (just labour, not including cost of replacement exhaust) - £280 (2014, 58k)

This is on top of your standard servicing costs, tyres, etc.

This car did have 115k on it by the end but some of these failures are fairly common even at lower mileage, like the water pump and gear cables, along with front coolant pipes (this is quite expensive). Water ingress on a Boxster is fairly common also (I've been caught out twice!).

If you buy nice low mileage example you might be problem free but you could also be hit with some bills, especially if it's a car that's spent lots of time sitting and you put it into regular use.

[shalmaneser]

Agreed saving a couple of quid on fuel costs is neither here nor there compared to servicing, even DIY it's pricey as parts are much more expensive than 'normal' cars. If you're farming the work out then it's super expensive.

[2Btoo]

Escy said:

I wouldn't put too much faith in that MPG figure, think it's higher than even Porsche quote. I'd expect closer to mid 20's for MPG. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Also, if you aren't working on the car yourself, they are expensive to maintain. I've just looked through my last Boxster's invoices from a Porsche specialist to give you a more realistic idea on running costs.

Water pump and aux belt - £550 (2021, 115k)
Supply and fit inner outer tie rods/track rods (pair), gear cables, bank 1 adjuster, roof ball joint - £1200 (2021, 110k)
Sachs clutch kit and RMS seal, supply and fit window reg - £1200 (2020, 95k)
Misfire investigation (replace cam actuators amongst other stuff) - £600 (2016, 65k)
Rectify water ingress issue - £1400 (2015, 62k)
Replacing rear silencer (just labour, not including cost of replacement exhaust) - £280 (2014, 58k)

This is on top of your standard servicing costs, tyres, etc.

This car did have 115k on it by the end but some of these failures are fairly common even at lower mileage, like the water pump and gear cables, along with front coolant pipes (this is quite expensive). Water ingress on a Boxster is fairly common also (I've been caught out twice!).

If you buy nice low mileage example you might be problem free but you could also be hit with some bills, especially if it's a car that's spent lots of time sitting and you put it into regular use.

I'll stand by the MPG figure but you're right when you say that maintenance can be pricey if you don't DIY things. Those invoices you quote are eye watering, but believable. I suspect that you were unlucky to cop all of those but sometimes things don't go in your favour.

[Escy]

I didn't cop any of them, I work on my own cars, I couldn't afford one if I didn't. I've bought a load of old Porsche's, Cayenne's and 986 / 987 Boxster's. They all come with a wad of invoices like those. It's the norm, not an exception. There's nothing in those Boxster invoices where you'd consider it unlucky, they are all pretty much run of the mill/known issues.

What you can see, is there is decent time/mileage intervals in between big spends. I'm sure plenty of people buy a car that's had loads spent, spend nothing themselves and get rid after a 20k and a couple of years declaring them cheap up run.

The older the car the less chance there is of that. Also, some owners find it easier than others to defer maintenance and forget about things. The A/C stops working, you open the window, etc. There's been plenty of people just on this thread that buy them and need to sink thousands into them to get them up to standard.

A lower mileage example isn't likely to be as bad but I wouldn't bet the house on no issues at all.

[ATM]

Escy said:

A lower mileage example isn't likely to be as bad but I wouldn't bet the house on no issues at all.

I bought a lower mileage garage queen. Its basically been dry stored for 20 years. The PO had it for 2 years and used it occasionally. He started working through some bits and pieces with a plan to actually use the car. He had the car fully repainted, new clutch, new discs and pads, some other bits and pieces. But thats not the end of it as I have a reasonably long list of stuff to make it good. Suspension is loose. Engine and box wobble around. The gear shift isn't quite right. I think the drive shaft gaiters are perished. You get the idea. It might look brand new underneath but that doesn't mean it is good. Parts underneath these cars will not last 20 years even if you don't drive the car.