Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test
Discussion
I don't think so. I just think that its a different car for a different time.
Here is what I liked:
(1) Incredible cornering ability and grip. There is no way that an equivalent level 997 could come close, in my view. This whole package moves the game forward dynamically. I was talking this morning to a neighbour who owns a part of a race team and who has driven Porsches at the Sebring 12 hours. He has recently spent some time with a 991 at Road Atlanta and feels it has huge potential when the track versions arrive. If this is the first shot from the 991, its is very ,very quick. THe 997 would not be competitive long term with the new cars coming, (Supra,anyone?) - the new platform will allow substantial future development.
There is a view that numbers don't matter as much as feel. Not everyone goes to track to evaluate a car, and things like Ring times have an impact on many people who may never visit a track. If Porsche build mid pack car with great feel, purists would buy it, but the larger market would not, in my view. The 991 will spawn some astonishing cars, and its very impressive as it is. However, you have to push it to find to how good it is.
(2) I like the upgraded interior. There is a view that a high performance car should have an austere interior, and certainly my own Porsches do not exude luxury, but this does not get in the way. Much prefer the thicker steering wheel also. I assume that the interior for the more track focused cars will have a lot of delete options in any case. The nav system is outstanding,the Bose sound system competent rather than brilliant.
(3) Seat are wonderful, supportive, infinitely adjustable. Not track seats, not designed to be.
(4) I think the PDK is about the best DSG type box out there, ( No, have not tried the well-regarded Ferrari box). As someone who has had shift cars for a lifetime, this is razor sharp and amazingly quick. I will continue to keep my existing cars indefinitely and have fun with the 6 speeds, but my current bias is to buy a PDK if they offer it on an upcoming RS.
(5) Overall, the shape is a success, with a much nicer profile than the 997. Maybe not a perfect as the 993 aesthetically in my biased view, but really nice. The car looks a bit clumsy from a rear three quarter view, however. I was surprised how many people commented on it favourably, and even more surprised that the colour was a big hit. Rear and mid engined cars have a huge advantage with the EU safety regulations about the height of the front over the top of the engine, that is producing cars I find ugly, ( frightful new SL, Panamera, a host of block nosed cars such as Jags,square fronted BMWs and so on. )
(6) Braking ( standard S brakes) continues Porsche's tradition of truly excellent braking.
(7) Wet handling is very good...found some wet country roads and tried gradually more aggressive braking and cornering - the thing is rock solid and predictable.
The concerns:
(8) OK - the steering is not as utterly perfect as it used to be. At low speeds particularly it seems to be fairly dead, but light. However, at the end of a fairly extensive set of runs in multiple conditions, in my view it is nowhere near as bad as some people have written. If you had never driven a 911 you would likely very happy with it. That being said, there is some work to be done before the track focused cars show up.
(9) It is a car that does not transmit an immediate personality when you first drive it. It takes time to get the best out of it, and then I started to really like it a lot.
(10)The rest of my negatives are more minor:
- as a poster mentioned here you do not see the passenger side wing , so the traditional 911 being able to use the edges of the car is no long there. .Would have been nice to keep it, but in practical terms it is not a big adjustment.
- minor quibbles...silly cupholders, windshield reflections, not sure about the exhaust note when using sport plus. There is no perfect car and we each have specific preferences.
What I would like to see on the RS version ( all the lightweight stuff and interior presumably will be done automatically):
- I might think of a manual if its not the 7 speed, but a traditional 6 speed rather than a variant of the PDK architecture. Otherwise the PDK.
- Steering obviously improved
- a high revving, dry sump engine now that the Mezger has left us, maybe no DFI.
Where does it fit?...It it an SL competitor,a Panamera Coupe , to use some of the discussions above.?.. As I have a mixed garage with cars ranging from a Smart to the Porsches, I would say that it is a superior chassis to any of them, certainly not anything like an SL. As mentioned, I love the handling. However it is not the slow-in,fast out,ready for oversteer car of the past. Many people have commented on PH threads about the fact that the more mid-engined Cayman handled better than the 997, so I think we sometimes apply retroactive status to the car of the past
.( I have tried the Cayman S on track). You could track this car as is and have a great time.
For me, competition is the R8 personally.
.
As mentioned, this is one man's view, and I think there have been very well stated views to the contrary. I was impressed. Its a dual personality car that can take anything you can throw at it. I started as a sceptic, ended as an enthusiast. Thanks for all of the civil and constructive viewpoints!...
' Nuff said. I'm going out for a drive.
Here is what I liked:
(1) Incredible cornering ability and grip. There is no way that an equivalent level 997 could come close, in my view. This whole package moves the game forward dynamically. I was talking this morning to a neighbour who owns a part of a race team and who has driven Porsches at the Sebring 12 hours. He has recently spent some time with a 991 at Road Atlanta and feels it has huge potential when the track versions arrive. If this is the first shot from the 991, its is very ,very quick. THe 997 would not be competitive long term with the new cars coming, (Supra,anyone?) - the new platform will allow substantial future development.
There is a view that numbers don't matter as much as feel. Not everyone goes to track to evaluate a car, and things like Ring times have an impact on many people who may never visit a track. If Porsche build mid pack car with great feel, purists would buy it, but the larger market would not, in my view. The 991 will spawn some astonishing cars, and its very impressive as it is. However, you have to push it to find to how good it is.
(2) I like the upgraded interior. There is a view that a high performance car should have an austere interior, and certainly my own Porsches do not exude luxury, but this does not get in the way. Much prefer the thicker steering wheel also. I assume that the interior for the more track focused cars will have a lot of delete options in any case. The nav system is outstanding,the Bose sound system competent rather than brilliant.
(3) Seat are wonderful, supportive, infinitely adjustable. Not track seats, not designed to be.
(4) I think the PDK is about the best DSG type box out there, ( No, have not tried the well-regarded Ferrari box). As someone who has had shift cars for a lifetime, this is razor sharp and amazingly quick. I will continue to keep my existing cars indefinitely and have fun with the 6 speeds, but my current bias is to buy a PDK if they offer it on an upcoming RS.
(5) Overall, the shape is a success, with a much nicer profile than the 997. Maybe not a perfect as the 993 aesthetically in my biased view, but really nice. The car looks a bit clumsy from a rear three quarter view, however. I was surprised how many people commented on it favourably, and even more surprised that the colour was a big hit. Rear and mid engined cars have a huge advantage with the EU safety regulations about the height of the front over the top of the engine, that is producing cars I find ugly, ( frightful new SL, Panamera, a host of block nosed cars such as Jags,square fronted BMWs and so on. )
(6) Braking ( standard S brakes) continues Porsche's tradition of truly excellent braking.
(7) Wet handling is very good...found some wet country roads and tried gradually more aggressive braking and cornering - the thing is rock solid and predictable.
The concerns:
(8) OK - the steering is not as utterly perfect as it used to be. At low speeds particularly it seems to be fairly dead, but light. However, at the end of a fairly extensive set of runs in multiple conditions, in my view it is nowhere near as bad as some people have written. If you had never driven a 911 you would likely very happy with it. That being said, there is some work to be done before the track focused cars show up.
(9) It is a car that does not transmit an immediate personality when you first drive it. It takes time to get the best out of it, and then I started to really like it a lot.
(10)The rest of my negatives are more minor:
- as a poster mentioned here you do not see the passenger side wing , so the traditional 911 being able to use the edges of the car is no long there. .Would have been nice to keep it, but in practical terms it is not a big adjustment.
- minor quibbles...silly cupholders, windshield reflections, not sure about the exhaust note when using sport plus. There is no perfect car and we each have specific preferences.
What I would like to see on the RS version ( all the lightweight stuff and interior presumably will be done automatically):
- I might think of a manual if its not the 7 speed, but a traditional 6 speed rather than a variant of the PDK architecture. Otherwise the PDK.
- Steering obviously improved
- a high revving, dry sump engine now that the Mezger has left us, maybe no DFI.
Where does it fit?...It it an SL competitor,a Panamera Coupe , to use some of the discussions above.?.. As I have a mixed garage with cars ranging from a Smart to the Porsches, I would say that it is a superior chassis to any of them, certainly not anything like an SL. As mentioned, I love the handling. However it is not the slow-in,fast out,ready for oversteer car of the past. Many people have commented on PH threads about the fact that the more mid-engined Cayman handled better than the 997, so I think we sometimes apply retroactive status to the car of the past
.( I have tried the Cayman S on track). You could track this car as is and have a great time.For me, competition is the R8 personally.
.
As mentioned, this is one man's view, and I think there have been very well stated views to the contrary. I was impressed. Its a dual personality car that can take anything you can throw at it. I started as a sceptic, ended as an enthusiast. Thanks for all of the civil and constructive viewpoints!...
' Nuff said. I'm going out for a drive.
I'm a nearly 991 Cab owner.I was going to have white but already have a white 2.9 Boxster and I'm struggling keeping the plastic stone chip guards clean and turning yellow. And as I object to paying for metallic I'm having my 1st 911 in Guards Red. I nearly had the Sport Design steering wheel but preferred the multi function one. PDK of course, heated seats and telephone module. It'll do for me. Happy days.
Ady128 said:
I'm a nearly 991 Cab owner.I was going to have white but already have a white 2.9 Boxster and I'm struggling keeping the plastic stone chip guards clean and turning yellow. And as I object to paying for metallic I'm having my 1st 911 in Guards Red. I nearly had the Sport Design steering wheel but preferred the multi function one. PDK of course, heated seats and telephone module. It'll do for me. Happy days.
Congrats and best of luck with it. The best colour of a 991 I have seen was white with black wheels, which was superb, ( had no camera with me. I find that the Porsche stone guards do yellow and I have always replaced them with VentureShield, which does not. My white RS has had this done and there is no yellowing.mollytherocker said:
Diesel130 said:
RDMcG said:
lots of interesting and informative stuff
I've been following this epic thread from the beginning.. I'm sure I speak for many on here to say thanks for your detailed and valuable insights...Thanks again!
RDMcG said:
For me, competition is the R8 personally.
Thanks for your review RDMcG. I agree with pretty much everything you said, however I took an R8 out for a test drive yesterday and was utterly amazed at how apalling the R-Tronic gearbox is. The PDK 991 would run circles round it whilst it was deciding which gear to clunk into next.
Personally, I have no interest in manual boxes anymore. If Audi updates the auto box on the R8 I'll take another look. They'd also need to have a rethink of the interior, though, which is low-rent compared to the 991.
So, on paper and probably on the track the R8 might well be competition for the 991. On the road and as a rounded package the 991 knocks it into a cocked hat.
Manks said:
RDMcG said:
For me, competition is the R8 personally.
Thanks for your review RDMcG. I agree with pretty much everything you said, however I took an R8 out for a test drive yesterday and was utterly amazed at how apalling the R-Tronic gearbox is. The PDK 991 would run circles round it whilst it was deciding which gear to clunk into next.
Personally, I have no interest in manual boxes anymore. If Audi updates the auto box on the R8 I'll take another look. They'd also need to have a rethink of the interior, though, which is low-rent compared to the 991.
So, on paper and probably on the track the R8 might well be competition for the 991. On the road and as a rounded package the 991 knocks it into a cocked hat.
Thanks for your comments and also your earlier observations
GuillaumeB said:
Manks said:
Thanks for your review RDMcG.
I agree with pretty much everything you said
+1 I agree with pretty much everything you said
Very good review indeed. I must confess to being a big fan of the Lime Gold too! Not too sure I would have the balls to spec it though.
. I bought a green RS when nobody specced them new. Now people want them. I think its a safe choiceFantastic thread. I am new to PH and joined to read about the new 991 before taking the plunge. Clearly two camps here. I looked at 997 in the past and decided not to as i found the interior pre-historic and the drive bit tricky and not in control. Accept that a longer drive would have possibly given me comfort with the 997. Ended up buying M3 E92 with screaming v8. Loved it, great engine, superb build quality. The 991 gives me what i was missing with the 997, better interior and relexed drive till you push it. The car is seriously quick, i mean 12 sec quarter mile for 991 s is impressive. Maybe time to sign the order form.
W
W
Wudee said:
Fantastic thread. I am new to PH and joined to read about the new 991 before taking the plunge. Clearly two camps here. I looked at 997 in the past and decided not to as i found the interior pre-historic and the drive bit tricky and not in control. Accept that a longer drive would have possibly given me comfort with the 997. Ended up buying M3 E92 with screaming v8. Loved it, great engine, superb build quality. The 991 gives me what i was missing with the 997, better interior and relexed drive till you push it. The car is seriously quick, i mean 12 sec quarter mile for 991 s is impressive. Maybe time to sign the order form.
W
I have owned and driven lots of BMWs _ great cars. Still,my experience with Porsches across the board has just kicked things up a level. At least where I live there is a very strong community around Porsches which really adds to the ownership experience.W
Wudee said:
Fantastic thread. I am new to PH and joined to read about the new 991 before taking the plunge. Clearly two camps here. I looked at 997 in the past and decided not to as i found the interior pre-historic and the drive bit tricky and not in control. Accept that a longer drive would have possibly given me comfort with the 997. Ended up buying M3 E92 with screaming v8. Loved it, great engine, superb build quality. The 991 gives me what i was missing with the 997, better interior and relexed drive till you push it. The car is seriously quick, i mean 12 sec quarter mile for 991 s is impressive. Maybe time to sign the order form.
W
This is exactly the point. There are no right or wrongs here. I personally didn't get on with the e92 M3. It was too comfortable and GT like. I am impressed by the technical tour-de-force which is the 991. It's not a car I warmed to over the 3 days I had it. I found it too GT like (there's a theme here!). It's a wonderful thing, and i'm glad it exists; I simply feel it's not for me, and probably a few others who like their cars a bit more edgy and connected, irrespective of speed.W
Thanks for your very well balanced and very informative post RDMcG. It has been a great thread. I've yet to drive a 997 although this should be remedied shortly courtesy of a GTS2 with pdk. They'll probably be announcing the 992 before I get actually get to drive a 991 
Edited by graemel on Tuesday 8th May 23:57
Peter Cee said:
Manks said:
Was this a GTS4?
Not driven one of those around Porsche's track, but I've driven the 2wd 997 there and 2wd 991 and the latter was quite a bit quicker round the track.
Can well imagine the GTS4 would be well suited to that track though.
Just remembered - it was the 4 (thay said no 991 4's were available yet)Not driven one of those around Porsche's track, but I've driven the 2wd 997 there and 2wd 991 and the latter was quite a bit quicker round the track.
Can well imagine the GTS4 would be well suited to that track though.
But it felt pretty obvious to me that the GTS felt quicker than a normal 997 and so it should with 408 horsepower - but I was surprised that the 991 felt no better as I was expecting good things after all the hype - but then a small test track isn't the 'Ring.
You could definately feel a difference in handling between the 2 cars - personally I preferred the GTS which felt like there was more driver feedback.
Edited by Peter Cee on Tuesday 8th May 14:44
Manks' comparison of his old 997.1 vs 991S will always see the 991 as the dynamically more capable car. However, the 997.1 is a far less capable car compared to the 997.2 GTS or GTS4. Even the 7.2C4S Manks borrowed will lack the power and responsiveness of the GTS engine. The GTS4 raises the dynamic capabilities of the GTS even higher. Manks raised the point many moons ago that he does not push his car that hard - shame, as the differences are less than one imagines: the GTS4 reveals more ability the harder one pushes in an organic way, whereas the 991 serves up instantly in its own synthetic manner. PTM is remarkable imho. Different behaviours, and some people just prefer the greater feedback offered up by the 997 platform. In the GTS4, Porsche were able to really hit a sweetspot in its dynamics with extra power.
The variety of views of this thread added much more than any view I could have contributed, and I agree with those who said that there is no right answer. It is always so.
We all have our own experience,bias,and tastes, and also different functional needs. It is always interesting to see the collected experience of PH'rs, many of whom have more or different experience than mine. I will hang onto my 997s permanently , not because they are the ultimate Porsches, but because they have given me so much pleasure and continue to do so.
Technology always advances, and I have no doubt that something else will show up to accompany them as the auto world advances. I have a sneaky feeling it will be a 991 RS. However, that's just my angle. Others will choose a GTR, or a 991 Turbo, or whatever car that connects functionally, aesthetically and emotionally, and those choices are just as appropriate as mine. Still, a couple of years will pass, and who knows what will show up.
For me, the best looking car in years is the Acura NSX concept car. It will price well beyond what I want to pay, but you never know what the manufacturers will drop on us next. That's what makes the whole thing such a great hobby.
We all have our own experience,bias,and tastes, and also different functional needs. It is always interesting to see the collected experience of PH'rs, many of whom have more or different experience than mine. I will hang onto my 997s permanently , not because they are the ultimate Porsches, but because they have given me so much pleasure and continue to do so.
Technology always advances, and I have no doubt that something else will show up to accompany them as the auto world advances. I have a sneaky feeling it will be a 991 RS. However, that's just my angle. Others will choose a GTR, or a 991 Turbo, or whatever car that connects functionally, aesthetically and emotionally, and those choices are just as appropriate as mine. Still, a couple of years will pass, and who knows what will show up.
For me, the best looking car in years is the Acura NSX concept car. It will price well beyond what I want to pay, but you never know what the manufacturers will drop on us next. That's what makes the whole thing such a great hobby.
Manks said:
I wasn't comparing my Gen 1 with the 991, that would have been ureasonable. I have driven the Gen 2s a fair bit, including the 4S I've got at the moment and it remains my opinion that the 991 outclasses them. A view shared, it appears, by most of the contributors here who have driven both cars at length and who have no axe to grind.
I also don't recall saying that I don't push my car very hard. Though I have had to run it in of course. I've driven several already run in 991s and I drove those pretty hard.
This is never going to end in agreement. Samantha Cameron outclasses Carla Bruni but I know who I'd rather shag.I also don't recall saying that I don't push my car very hard. Though I have had to run it in of course. I've driven several already run in 991s and I drove those pretty hard.
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