991 GT3 - latest pics

[mollytherocker]

Dblue said:

The Ferrari experience suggests that even hardcore models get almost no manual take up when buyers are offered both.

Agreed.

And why do you think that is?

[Old Trout]

Helicopter123 said:

But how many GT3 buyers would really buy the slower "old school" manual? Ferrari have no demand for a manual.

Dblue said:

The Ferrari experience suggests that even hardcore models get almost no manual take up when buyers are offered both.

And I sirs, have absolutely no demand for a Ferrari, even moreso given my first hand experience of them this week.

[DMC2]

mollytherocker said:

Dblue said:

The Ferrari experience suggests that even hardcore models get almost no manual take up when buyers are offered both.

Agreed.

And why do you think that is?

Because if you drive a hardcore Ferrari in a hardcore fashion it breaks

[spareparts]

HokumPokum said:

I think the manual is dead. The PDK transmission is so good why does a manual make sense on track? on the road it prolly does but if you extricate enough performance out of the car, you are already way over the speed limit in a manual. Instead a PDK Gt3 that allows one to drive sensibly on the road and give the required speed on track should be a no-brainer.

On track, the speed brings focus and excitement and challenge. I dun see any of that diminishing unless you are not driving properly or fast enough.

long live the new king........PDK

Acceleration of the fastest 911s (eg TurboS) is now at a rate where a manual really does not make sense and can become a dynamic liability. Dynamic stability brought about of PDK is a huge benefit when shifting between gears in 3second sprints to 60 or 6 seconds to 100. A manual would otherwise turn the car into a pitching and lurching donkey under such fierce acceleration as you came off the throttle, clutched in, then back on the throttle hard. The TurboS isn't even available with a manual.

[Steve Rance]

Ha ha. Gearboxes don't do that. Drivers do! The art of driving is not dead... But if manufacturers continue to target and pander to the lowest common denominator it probably soon will be. The CGT struggles along quite well with a stick as does the GT2RS!!

[DMC2]

Steve Rance said:

Ha ha. Gearboxes don't do that. Drivers do! The art of driving is not dead... But if manufacturers continue to target and pander to the lowest common denominator it probably soon will be. The CGT struggles along quite well with a stick as does the GT2RS!!

Here here. Well said.

[Dblue]

Old Trout said:

Helicopter123 said:

But how many GT3 buyers would really buy the slower "old school" manual? Ferrari have no demand for a manual.

Dblue said:

The Ferrari experience suggests that even hardcore models get almost no manual take up when buyers are offered both.

And I sirs, have absolutely no demand for a Ferrari, even moreso given my first hand experience of them this week.

What Fezza have you been experiencing Trouty? Would have to say I have my reservations about some aspects of Ferrari ownership but I don't think there's any credible reason to try and argue they are anything less than brilliant drivers cars.
And mechanically speaking they're pretty bulletproof. Engines and transmissions very strong.

[mollytherocker]

DMC2 said:

Steve Rance said:

Ha ha. Gearboxes don't do that. Drivers do! The art of driving is not dead... But if manufacturers continue to target and pander to the lowest common denominator it probably soon will be. The CGT struggles along quite well with a stick as does the GT2RS!!

Here here. Well said.

[Mermaid]

mollytherocker said:

DMC2 said:

Steve Rance said:

Ha ha. Gearboxes don't do that. Drivers do! The art of driving is not dead... But if manufacturers continue to target and pander to the lowest common denominator it probably soon will be. The CGT struggles along quite well with a stick as does the GT2RS!!

Here here. Well said.

But would the average owner (not all are highly talented drivers) be able to drive these better?

[spareparts]

Steve Rance said:

Ha ha. Gearboxes don't do that. Drivers do! The art of driving is not dead... But if manufacturers continue to target and pander to the lowest common denominator it probably soon will be. The CGT struggles along quite well with a stick as does the GT2RS!!

True - but not everyone is Steve Rance

[mollytherocker]

Mermaid said:

But would the average owner (not all are highly talented drivers) be able to drive these better?

Of course not. That's the whole point of these cars! They are meant to be a challenge and reward skill and effort.

[spareparts]

mollytherocker said:

Mermaid said:

But would the average owner (not all are highly talented drivers) be able to drive these better?

Of course not. That's the whole point of these cars! They are meant to be a challenge and reward skill and effort.

But first and foremost, the GT3 is about going fast on track. And on track, if you want to be fast, you also want the car stable. PDK helps make the car both fast and stable. If Porsche did not offer PDK on the GT3, I would question whether Porsche were being true to the ethos of the GT3.

[OlberJ]

I thought the GT3 was a road car you can track and the GT3 RS a track car that you can drive on the road?

[Mermaid]

spareparts said:

But first and foremost, the GT3 is about going fast on track. And on track, if you want to be fast, you also want the car stable. PDK helps make the car both fast and stable. If Porsche did not offer PDK on the GT3, I would question whether Porsche were being true to the ethos of the GT3.

BMW, in their infinite wisdom, decided SMG was better for the track focused M3 CSL/M3 GTS.

[mollytherocker]

spareparts said:

But first and foremost, the GT3 is about going fast on track. And on track, if you want to be fast, you also want the car stable. PDK helps make the car both fast and stable. If Porsche did not offer PDK on the GT3, I would question whether Porsche were being true to the ethos of the GT3.

How does PDK make the car more stable?

[J-P]

mollytherocker said:

How does PDK make the car more stable?

You can change up the gears under lateral load without upsetting the car - I'd still prefer a manual though!

[spareparts]

Mermaid said:

spareparts said:

But first and foremost, the GT3 is about going fast on track. And on track, if you want to be fast, you also want the car stable. PDK helps make the car both fast and stable. If Porsche did not offer PDK on the GT3, I would question whether Porsche were being true to the ethos of the GT3.

BMW, in their infinite wisdom, decided SMG was better for the track focused M3 CSL/M3 GTS.

Absolutely. Terrible on the road. Brilliant on track

mollytherocker said:

How does PDK make the car more stable?

Minimises duration of a disengaged drivetrain. And with PDK (twin clutch), power is constantly maintained to the drivetrain = control. Brake hard into a corner, change down 1-2-3 gears in an instant without upsetting the balance of a car. Under power, change through the gears in milliseconds without unbalancing the car... especially midbend. Why does Steve Rance flatshift in a race to go fast[er]? All he is doing is simulating what a PDK does for mortals. And PDK is more reliable than Rancey, without requiring gearbox rebuilds every couple of trackdays!

[Old Trout]

Dblue said:

What Fezza have you been experiencing Trouty? Would have to say I have my reservations about some aspects of Ferrari ownership but I don't think there's any credible reason to try and argue they are anything less than brilliant drivers cars.
And mechanically speaking they're pretty bulletproof. Engines and transmissions very strong.

The limited brand experience was very poor and the cars, whilst glamorous and well engineered, do not seem to have the value for money as Porsche.

At the end of the day I was very happy to get back in the 911 and was hugely reassured as to how good and well integrated these cars are.

[SFO]

if they make a manual gearbox for standard 991s, why not for GT3 too?

[spareparts]

SFO said:

if they make a manual gearbox for standard 991s, why not for GT3 too?

Maybe they will?