Chris Harris drives the 991 GT3 enjoy
Discussion
Skrambles said:
It's difficult not to be seduced by the car, but I'm not sure I'd pay £100k for it. A used 997 gt3 looks like amazing value by comparison.
The biggest difference between the old and new is the chassis - a decade has brought major improvements. Never understood the fascination with manual over PDK given that nobody complains about race cars having sequential boxes - even Chris states in this video he would rather have the PDK over manual at that moment.
Also have not understood the lack of concern over the 1430kg weight. Preuninger stated the additional weight cost of the new GT3 was worth it for the improvement in performance. Never heard an F1 team say that. Its 1430kg ffs - perhaps this highlights the new customer base.
Great (mixed) review by the way. Would I have one? Yes - if I didn't want a sports car that ticked all the boxes (engine, weight, performance, etc)
sleep envy said:
SonnyM said:
Never understood the fascination with manual over PDK given that nobody complains about race cars having sequential boxes
racing cars are ultimately built to beat the clock/guy alongside you. Road cars aren't unless you wear nomex undercrackers on your way to Tesco.There is no doubt the 991 GT3 will be a fabulous road car.
It looks great, sounds great, looks like it goes great.
However, with the debate over weight and PDK, people really need to stop making comparisons between F1 and race cars. It is a road car, optimised for road performance. I think even the RS versions are still quite some way off being a stripped out race car.
I can't afford a car like this, however the PDK would put me off. Diesel saloon with an auto, great.
Any car I've driven with a box like this and paddles as an option, I always end up just leaving it in auto. There is simply no pleasure from using the paddles. Initial novelty value, but the fun soon runs out.
This car especially will cause debate over the manual/pdk thing. I just wish they offered an option of both.
However, with the debate over weight and PDK, people really need to stop making comparisons between F1 and race cars. It is a road car, optimised for road performance. I think even the RS versions are still quite some way off being a stripped out race car.
I can't afford a car like this, however the PDK would put me off. Diesel saloon with an auto, great.
Any car I've driven with a box like this and paddles as an option, I always end up just leaving it in auto. There is simply no pleasure from using the paddles. Initial novelty value, but the fun soon runs out.
This car especially will cause debate over the manual/pdk thing. I just wish they offered an option of both.
SonnyM said:
Point taken, however the marketing for the new 3 constantly states the (sub 7:30) lap times and that the PDK and rear wheel steer are contributors to those amazing track times.
In that case they should use someone with an adenoidal voice to do the voiceovers.SonnyM said:
There is no doubt the 991 GT3 will be a fabulous road car.
Agreed.hunter 66 said:
The only POrk I still have is air cooled 993 GT2R ....sadly , but this is another level the 7.25 Ring time on two differing types of tyre , 0-100 in 7.5 etc etc .
And all the comforts of a fine car.
Loved the launch control start at the end .
Best just got a lot better
but it's now like a GTR but slower and £30k more !And all the comforts of a fine car.
Loved the launch control start at the end .
Best just got a lot better
It is a lovely, lovely car, but in some respects I am still disappointed.
I know I am risking flame and fire being thrown at me here, but stay with me..
Let us consider the Nissan GT-R. Yes, the GT-R is very heavy, very Japanese, very "playstation". In many ways it is the opposite to a GT3, representing all the things that Porsche drivers do not want. It is a truck in comparison. I get that, I really do.
But.
The GT-R - even though it weighs a lot more and is like a Range Rover in comparison - is faster than the GT3, even in standard trim before people start mapping it. The GT-R has the dual clutch gearbox, massive traction, lots of technology. The thing is, the GT3 has lots of technology as well now, with PDK and rear wheel steering. It is a much rawer experience than a GT-R, I know they cannot and maybe should not be compared. But the fact remains that the GT-R has to some extent already taken the same road that Porsche is going down with the GT3. And the GT-R is nearly 6 years old now.
Now 6 years is a long time. Am I wrong in thinking Porsche should have achieved more in this space of time, when even their most hardcore sports car still has to give so much away to a 2 tonne Japanese lump that was conceived and designed when Porsche was still with the 996?
Imagine a GT-R in "GT3" spec, weighing 20% less. The Porsche would be annihilated.
The new GT3 confuses me a bit.
I'm not sure if I want one.
I'm not sure if this is enough.
Or maybe I'm approaching things all wrong. But I find it hard to shake off a recent drive of the GT-R and the standards it still sets for what is now quite an old, heavy and "like it or hate it" kind of car. The fact is that the big Datsun can still show Porsche a thing or two and after all these years I find that surprising.
Maybe the 991 Turbo is going to address this better than the GT3 can. But with PDK now compulsory, maybe the GT3 and the Turbo are going to be closer than they should be? Maybe too close?
This is a rant that lacks some eloquence, so apologies. But I see the GT3 with its PDK and 4 wheel steering and I find myself wondering if it is the right road for Porsche to be going down.
All IMO.
I know I am risking flame and fire being thrown at me here, but stay with me..
Let us consider the Nissan GT-R. Yes, the GT-R is very heavy, very Japanese, very "playstation". In many ways it is the opposite to a GT3, representing all the things that Porsche drivers do not want. It is a truck in comparison. I get that, I really do.
But.
The GT-R - even though it weighs a lot more and is like a Range Rover in comparison - is faster than the GT3, even in standard trim before people start mapping it. The GT-R has the dual clutch gearbox, massive traction, lots of technology. The thing is, the GT3 has lots of technology as well now, with PDK and rear wheel steering. It is a much rawer experience than a GT-R, I know they cannot and maybe should not be compared. But the fact remains that the GT-R has to some extent already taken the same road that Porsche is going down with the GT3. And the GT-R is nearly 6 years old now.
Now 6 years is a long time. Am I wrong in thinking Porsche should have achieved more in this space of time, when even their most hardcore sports car still has to give so much away to a 2 tonne Japanese lump that was conceived and designed when Porsche was still with the 996?
Imagine a GT-R in "GT3" spec, weighing 20% less. The Porsche would be annihilated.
The new GT3 confuses me a bit.
I'm not sure if I want one.
I'm not sure if this is enough.
Or maybe I'm approaching things all wrong. But I find it hard to shake off a recent drive of the GT-R and the standards it still sets for what is now quite an old, heavy and "like it or hate it" kind of car. The fact is that the big Datsun can still show Porsche a thing or two and after all these years I find that surprising.
Maybe the 991 Turbo is going to address this better than the GT3 can. But with PDK now compulsory, maybe the GT3 and the Turbo are going to be closer than they should be? Maybe too close?
This is a rant that lacks some eloquence, so apologies. But I see the GT3 with its PDK and 4 wheel steering and I find myself wondering if it is the right road for Porsche to be going down.
All IMO.
Edited by toppstuff on Thursday 13th June 10:34
toppstuff said:
It is a lovely, lovely car, but in some respects I am still disappointed.
I know I am risking flame and fire being thrown at me here, but stay with me..
Let us consider the Nissan GT-R. Yes, the GT-R is very heavy, very Japanese, very "playstation". In many ways it is the opposite to a GT3, representing all the things that Porsche drivers do not want. It is a truck in comparison. I get that, I really do.
But.
The GT-R - even though it weighs a lot more and is like a Range Rover in comparison - is faster than the GT3, even in standard trim before people start mapping it. The GT-R has the dual clutch gearbox, massive traction, lots of technology. The thing is, the GT3 has lots of technology as well now, with PDK and rear wheel steering. It is a much rawer experience than a GT-R, I know they cannot and maybe should not be compared. But the fact remains that the GT-R has to some extent already taken the same road that Porsche is going down with the GT3. And the GT-R is nearly 6 years old now.
Now 6 years is a long time. Am I wrong in thinking Porsche should have achieved more in this space of time, when even their most hardcore sports car still has to give so much away to a 2 tonne Japanese lump that was conceived and designed when Porsche was still with the 997?
Imagine a GT-R in "GT3" spec, weighing 20% less. The Porsche would be annihilated.
The new GT3 confuses me a bit.
I'm not sure if I want one.
I'm not sure if this is enough.
Or maybe I'm approaching things all wrong. But I find it hard to shake off a recent drive of the GT-R and the standards it still sets for what is now quite an old, heavy and "like it or hate it" kind of car. The fact is that the big Datsun can still show Porsche a thing or two and after all these years I find that surprising.
Maybe the 991 Turbo is going to address this better than the GT3 can. But with PDK now compulsory, maybe the GT3 and the Turbo are going to be closer than they should be? Maybe too close?
This is a rant that lacks some eloquence, so apologies. But I see the GT3 with its PDK and 4 wheel steering and I find myself wondering if it is the right road for Porsche to be going down.
All IMO.
Well put. It all comes down to how engaging the GT3 will be. I have no doubt it's quick, that's already proven, but being just quick is not engaging, something the GTR proves.I know I am risking flame and fire being thrown at me here, but stay with me..
Let us consider the Nissan GT-R. Yes, the GT-R is very heavy, very Japanese, very "playstation". In many ways it is the opposite to a GT3, representing all the things that Porsche drivers do not want. It is a truck in comparison. I get that, I really do.
But.
The GT-R - even though it weighs a lot more and is like a Range Rover in comparison - is faster than the GT3, even in standard trim before people start mapping it. The GT-R has the dual clutch gearbox, massive traction, lots of technology. The thing is, the GT3 has lots of technology as well now, with PDK and rear wheel steering. It is a much rawer experience than a GT-R, I know they cannot and maybe should not be compared. But the fact remains that the GT-R has to some extent already taken the same road that Porsche is going down with the GT3. And the GT-R is nearly 6 years old now.
Now 6 years is a long time. Am I wrong in thinking Porsche should have achieved more in this space of time, when even their most hardcore sports car still has to give so much away to a 2 tonne Japanese lump that was conceived and designed when Porsche was still with the 997?
Imagine a GT-R in "GT3" spec, weighing 20% less. The Porsche would be annihilated.
The new GT3 confuses me a bit.
I'm not sure if I want one.
I'm not sure if this is enough.
Or maybe I'm approaching things all wrong. But I find it hard to shake off a recent drive of the GT-R and the standards it still sets for what is now quite an old, heavy and "like it or hate it" kind of car. The fact is that the big Datsun can still show Porsche a thing or two and after all these years I find that surprising.
Maybe the 991 Turbo is going to address this better than the GT3 can. But with PDK now compulsory, maybe the GT3 and the Turbo are going to be closer than they should be? Maybe too close?
This is a rant that lacks some eloquence, so apologies. But I see the GT3 with its PDK and 4 wheel steering and I find myself wondering if it is the right road for Porsche to be going down.
All IMO.
Everything these days seems to be moving towards semi-autos, which are definitely quicker than a manual change, but deperately boring after a while. In some ways it's a good thing that the new GT3 appears to be so different to the 997, as it shows some evolution and gives the consumer some choice.
sleep envy said:
mrdemon said:
but it's now like a GTR but slower and £30k more !
you do this on purpose, don't you?
Porsche should feel relieved that Nissan have not taken the GT-R, put it on a diet so it weighs 10-20% less, adjust it's settings to increase feedback and involvement and pump it out to the market at £100k. I fear that if Datsun offered a "GT-R GT3 spec" it would utterly humiliate the Porsche. After all, the standard Datsun is so heavy it must have a hot tub in the boot, but it is still quicker.
Porsche should be happy that Nissan prefer not to sell a more hardcore GT-R. Nissan clearly choose to deliberately dial down driver feedback and involvement in the GT-R rather than increase involvement and interaction. Nissan are not smart enough, it seems, to realise the impact they could make if they tried.
I think people need to stop comparing the GTR to GT3 etc and look at the bigger picture. Facts and figures alone don't make up the reason why we buy cars - budget plays a huge part, and how many owners of 458's, Scuds, Lambo's, GT3's etc buy the GTR, just because it's as quick - if not quicker! The GTR is a great car, but it isn't a Porsche or Ferrari
Alpinestars said:
In some ways it's a good thing that the new GT3 appears to be so different to the 997, as it shows some evolution and gives the consumer some choice.
no choice if you want the latest and greatest though as a lot of people DO only buy new cars and want the latest, then, it PDK only.I think it's a great shame there is not a manual choice.
MCSL said:
I think people need to stop comparing the GTR to GT3 etc and look at the bigger picture. Facts and figures alone don't make up the reason why we buy cars - budget plays a huge part, and how many owners of 458's, Scuds, Lambo's, GT3's etc buy the GTR, just because it's as quick - if not quicker! The GTR is a great car, but it isn't a Porsche or Ferrari
I agree. Agree totally. But I think the "bigger picture" is that we know that it is possible to make cars that perform much better than the GT3 - even when the "driver involvement" is dialled out and they weigh as much as a small truck. The GT-R proves this.
I just find myself imagining what a GT-R would be like if it was lighter and had its suspension and steering calibrated to bring more "involvement". It would end up so far ahead of anything Porsche make, it would be embarrassing. And the GT-R is old. I can't shake off the sense that Porsche should have achieved more.
Not that Porsche care, of course. I am sure they will sell everything they can make.
MCSL said:
I think people need to stop comparing the GTR to GT3 etc and look at the bigger picture. Facts and figures alone don't make up the reason why we buy cars - budget plays a huge part, and how many owners of 458's, Scuds, Lambo's, GT3's etc buy the GTR, just because it's as quick - if not quicker! The GTR is a great car, but it isn't a Porsche or Ferrari
The bigger picture is the GT3 range was starting to look very slow on paper.At 100k on paper states sells cars, people want faster cars, most cars like Ferrari, GT3 etc are bought without a test drive.
Faster is not better, but it sells cars and looks good.
Ring times and the like have gone mental in terms of selling cars.
mrdemon said:
The bigger picture is the GT3 range was starting to look very slow on paper.
At 100k on paper states sells cars, people want faster cars, most cars like Ferrari, GT3 etc are bought without a test drive.
Faster is not better, but it sells cars and looks good.
Ring times and the like have gone mental in terms of selling cars.
I don't agree with that. Many people don't want faster cars per se. If they did, GT3 buyers would presumably all buy the 991 Turbo S, which would no doubt be much quicker on the road in the hands of an average driver. Take it to it's logical conclusion, and you'd end up buying an Evo or GTR which most cars cannot live with on the road, in all conditions.At 100k on paper states sells cars, people want faster cars, most cars like Ferrari, GT3 etc are bought without a test drive.
Faster is not better, but it sells cars and looks good.
Ring times and the like have gone mental in terms of selling cars.
People buy Lambos and Ferraris to fulfil dreams/to achieve aspirations largely - not necessarily to be the quickest. As part of paying over £100k for a car, it has to have a certain level of performance, but it's not about performance per se. Look at the prices of Macs - I've never driven one, but by all accounts it's a very quick car, probably quicker than a 458 on the road, but unloved.
I've never extracted the best out of really quick cars on the road, for any length of time, because there is just too much performance. So what works for me, is something that involves me when I drive it, slowly or quickly. I don't give 2 hoots about being the fastest. If I want to do that, I jump into my GTR, annihilate everything else, and feel pretty bored and unsatisfied in the process.
Part of the GT3's philosophy was to engage the driver, and at the same time be a quick car, in the right hands. It was never meant to be the fastest car around as soon as you jump into it. So it comes back to my point about hoping the car is an engaging drive, as well as being quick.
toppstuff said:
But with PDK now compulsory, maybe the GT3 and the Turbo are going to be closer than they should be? Maybe too close?
The same thought occurred to me, when looking at the 991 GT3 brochure. If buying a 991, I doubt that I'd go for a turbo (unless needing 4 seats) as the new gt3 is already so fast and so refined (compared to its predecessor) that it would make just as good a GT/everyday car. Plus, the exhaust on the turbo tends to be so disappointing by comparison with the spine-tingling gt3 notes.Just out of curiosity (honest), has the full allocation of 2013/2014 cars been pre-ordered?
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