Driving a 991 GTS Targa 4 and 991 GTS 4 Coupe
Discussion
You've got the targa all wrong.
I have just spend some little time with this manual targa 4, on loan to PCGB.
It's not even that big - mirror to mirror it fitted in my tandem garage the same as my Cayman.
PASM best left out of sport mode, get the roof down, enjoy the wind in your hair and sports exhaust. It's a lovely thing.
I have just spend some little time with this manual targa 4, on loan to PCGB.
It's not even that big - mirror to mirror it fitted in my tandem garage the same as my Cayman.
PASM best left out of sport mode, get the roof down, enjoy the wind in your hair and sports exhaust. It's a lovely thing.
Nice review cmoose.
I drove a 991GTS cab pdk recently and found pretty much the same as your points on the targa.
It was surprisingly loose and allowed quite a lot more slip than I was expecting.
The exhaust is childish and not in a good way.
I drove a 991GTS cab pdk recently and found pretty much the same as your points on the targa.
It was surprisingly loose and allowed quite a lot more slip than I was expecting.
The exhaust is childish and not in a good way.
Edited by mollytherocker on Monday 21st September 21:01
rob.kellock said:
You've got the targa all wrong.
I have just spend some little time with this manual targa 4, on loan to PCGB.
It's not even that big - mirror to mirror it fitted in my tandem garage the same as my Cayman.
PASM best left out of sport mode, get the roof down, enjoy the wind in your hair and sports exhaust. It's a lovely thing.
Nice colour that - what is it ? I have just spend some little time with this manual targa 4, on loan to PCGB.
It's not even that big - mirror to mirror it fitted in my tandem garage the same as my Cayman.
PASM best left out of sport mode, get the roof down, enjoy the wind in your hair and sports exhaust. It's a lovely thing.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks, a great comprehensive article....I've just come out of a 991 GTS 2 PDK coupe. It had the standard PASM suspension, I did around 2000 miles in it before swapping into a GT4.
I didn't really gel with the car for the first few weeks, but eventually, it really grew on me.
The engine really does make some great noises (as you say, sounds best with PSE off). It really breathes and revs much harder at the top end than a regular 3.8. My main gripe with it was the way it transferred its weight around when moving at moderate speeds on A roads. Even in the firmer sport PASM setting, the rear wiggles under power, and the front end goes light. These are fine handling traits, and not the easiest aspect of the way it drives to put into words, but I guess you may know what I mean..?
I agree with you 100% regarding the artificial exhaust noises from the PSE, and yes the PDK gearshift 'thump' in Sport-Plus is totally pointless, and its exactly the same on a 991 GT3. I really don't understand what the engineers are thinking here, so Sport plus was a setting I never used on either car.
I cant say I found the brake pedal over servoed, and I do hate an overly light brake pedal.
The GT4 is an improvement in all the aspects above which I didn't like on the 991 GTS, but I wont hijack your thread with the reasons..!
Edited by Big Al. on Monday 21st September 21:05
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I know what you mean . I love my 997.2 RS because of many things , but mostly because it's manual , and I also love my 1973 2.7 RS (ish) for the same reason - but as much as I love to drive them , I loved my 991 GT3 as well - different I agree , but no less engaging - an engineering masterpiece - a precision instalment , truly amazing. I've ready our reviews (which are great btw ) and I would love to know what you think of the 3 - I think anyone who loves driving would find it hard not to fall for its charms RSVP911 said:
Oh , go on and also while your at it - your view of the 4 vs the 3 ?
So, GT4 has a great gearchange, better than a 997 GT3, the lever is fractionally shorter than a GT3s, and the shift feel is nigh on perfect. Engine feels really strong, especially above 5k, and it'll get better with some more miles on it I'm sure. Sounds good too, although you're always aware its just a regular 911 engine behind you. On balance, a 997 GT3 engine sounds better, but I'm not certain feels any faster. The 997 and 991 GT3 both win on the mechanical noise and rattle they make on idle, the GT4 does sound rather more tame here. There's no benefit to this 'busy' noise the GT3s make, but it does add to the drama. The GT4's auto blip on the downchange in Sport mode, while I thought it 'gimicky' to start with, is actually very good. GT4's ESC system feels just like that of the 991 GT3, so it intervenes quite late, and with quite a significant slip angle - Contrast the 991 GTS (or Cayman S) when it intervenes much earlier. So I commented above how the 991 GTS's weight transfer under power in medium corners was something I didn't like...a reminder of all that weight behind you. The GT4 is so much better in this regard. When you push on in medium speed corners, it just feels so composed, you can feel the rear squatting (only a little) and the front end loses a fraction of its weight through the steering wheel just to let you know the weight transfer thats going on....Feels perfect, and its impossibly hard to imagine the engineering work behind the scenes to make it feel this good.
In contrast, the low speed comfort and compliance of the GT4's chassis is brilliant when driving at normal speeds, and cabin noise (tyre roar) isn't noticeable. a 991 GT3 feels more busy and noisier, and therefore more tiring to live with. 997 GT3 even more so
Folding buckets are fractionally more comfortable than the 918 lightweight buckets, but as the 918 seats have height adjustment, and sit lower, I do prefer them.
My order of preference 991 GT3; GT4; 997 GT3; 991 GTS. The 991 GT3 just pips the GT4, and only because of the spine tingling noises it makes during that last 500rpm...stupid I know...!
IREvans said:
So, GT4 has a great gearchange, better than a 997 GT3, the lever is fractionally shorter than a GT3s, and the shift feel is nigh on perfect. Engine feels really strong, especially above 5k, and it'll get better with some more miles on it I'm sure. Sounds good too, although you're always aware its just a regular 911 engine behind you. On balance, a 997 GT3 engine sounds better, but I'm not certain feels any faster. The 997 and 991 GT3 both win on the mechanical noise and rattle they make on idle, the GT4 does sound rather more tame here. There's no benefit to this 'busy' noise the GT3s make, but it does add to the drama. The GT4's auto blip on the downchange in Sport mode, while I thought it 'gimicky' to start with, is actually very good. GT4's ESC system feels just like that of the 991 GT3, so it intervenes quite late, and with quite a significant slip angle - Contrast the 991 GTS (or Cayman S) when it intervenes much earlier.
So I commented above how the 991 GTS's weight transfer under power in medium corners was something I didn't like...a reminder of all that weight behind you. The GT4 is so much better in this regard. When you push on in medium speed corners, it just feels so composed, you can feel the rear squatting (only a little) and the front end loses a fraction of its weight through the steering wheel just to let you know the weight transfer thats going on....Feels perfect, and its impossibly hard to imagine the engineering work behind the scenes to make it feel this good.
In contrast, the low speed comfort and compliance of the GT4's chassis is brilliant when driving at normal speeds, and cabin noise (tyre roar) isn't noticeable. a 991 GT3 feels more busy and noisier, and therefore more tiring to live with. 997 GT3 even more so
Folding buckets are fractionally more comfortable than the 918 lightweight buckets, but as the 918 seats have height adjustment, and sit lower, I do prefer them.
My order of preference 991 GT3; GT4; 997 GT3; 991 GTS. The 991 GT3 just pips the GT4, and only because of the spine tingling noises it makes during that last 500rpm...stupid I know...!
Cheers - can you elaborate on why the blip on the down shift isn't a gimmick - what's the benefit ? Either way , it sounds like great fun , I'd love a 4 or the new Spyder - lovely manual fun things to counter the seriousness of the RS - I would imagine all great cars So I commented above how the 991 GTS's weight transfer under power in medium corners was something I didn't like...a reminder of all that weight behind you. The GT4 is so much better in this regard. When you push on in medium speed corners, it just feels so composed, you can feel the rear squatting (only a little) and the front end loses a fraction of its weight through the steering wheel just to let you know the weight transfer thats going on....Feels perfect, and its impossibly hard to imagine the engineering work behind the scenes to make it feel this good.
In contrast, the low speed comfort and compliance of the GT4's chassis is brilliant when driving at normal speeds, and cabin noise (tyre roar) isn't noticeable. a 991 GT3 feels more busy and noisier, and therefore more tiring to live with. 997 GT3 even more so
Folding buckets are fractionally more comfortable than the 918 lightweight buckets, but as the 918 seats have height adjustment, and sit lower, I do prefer them.
My order of preference 991 GT3; GT4; 997 GT3; 991 GTS. The 991 GT3 just pips the GT4, and only because of the spine tingling noises it makes during that last 500rpm...stupid I know...!
Cmoose, any comments on the 4WD aspect of the cars? Aside from the obvious weight penalty of course.
I didnt really notice it that much, maybe a little in the steering accelerating out of a corner, but the steering is fairly synthetic anyways so not sure that was a real or imagined 'feeling'.
I didnt really notice it that much, maybe a little in the steering accelerating out of a corner, but the steering is fairly synthetic anyways so not sure that was a real or imagined 'feeling'.
RSVP911 said:
Cheers - can you elaborate on why the blip on the down shift isn't a gimmick - what's the benefit ? Either way , it sounds like great fun , I'd love a 4 or the new Spyder - lovely manual fun things to counter the seriousness of the RS - I would imagine all great cars
Auto blip - So regardless of engine and road speed, the 'blip' is delivered with just the right magnitude, and timed just as the gear lever goes through the last few mm of travel of the gate. For some reason, a PDK 'blip' feels synthetic, yet the the GT4's blip doesn't...strange...!I love the engineering of it..! You can switch it off, and try and do it yourself, but whats the point when it does a better job than me flexing my right toe..!
The GT4 has made me want a Boxster Spyder too...!
IREvans said:
So, GT4 has a great gearchange, better than a 997 GT3, the lever is fractionally shorter than a GT3s, and the shift feel is nigh on perfect. Engine feels really strong, especially above 5k, and it'll get better with some more miles on it I'm sure. Sounds good too, although you're always aware its just a regular 911 engine behind you. On balance, a 997 GT3 engine sounds better, but I'm not certain feels any faster. The 997 and 991 GT3 both win on the mechanical noise and rattle they make on idle, the GT4 does sound rather more tame here. There's no benefit to this 'busy' noise the GT3s make, but it does add to the drama. The GT4's auto blip on the downchange in Sport mode, while I thought it 'gimicky' to start with, is actually very good. GT4's ESC system feels just like that of the 991 GT3, so it intervenes quite late, and with quite a significant slip angle - Contrast the 991 GTS (or Cayman S) when it intervenes much earlier.
So I commented above how the 991 GTS's weight transfer under power in medium corners was something I didn't like...a reminder of all that weight behind you. The GT4 is so much better in this regard. When you push on in medium speed corners, it just feels so composed, you can feel the rear squatting (only a little) and the front end loses a fraction of its weight through the steering wheel just to let you know the weight transfer thats going on....Feels perfect, and its impossibly hard to imagine the engineering work behind the scenes to make it feel this good.
In contrast, the low speed comfort and compliance of the GT4's chassis is brilliant when driving at normal speeds, and cabin noise (tyre roar) isn't noticeable. a 991 GT3 feels more busy and noisier, and therefore more tiring to live with. 997 GT3 even more so
Folding buckets are fractionally more comfortable than the 918 lightweight buckets, but as the 918 seats have height adjustment, and sit lower, I do prefer them.
My order of preference 991 GT3; GT4; 997 GT3; 991 GTS. The 991 GT3 just pips the GT4, and only because of the spine tingling noises it makes during that last 500rpm...stupid I know...!
'Just pips it'....please....it's Robin v Batman So I commented above how the 991 GTS's weight transfer under power in medium corners was something I didn't like...a reminder of all that weight behind you. The GT4 is so much better in this regard. When you push on in medium speed corners, it just feels so composed, you can feel the rear squatting (only a little) and the front end loses a fraction of its weight through the steering wheel just to let you know the weight transfer thats going on....Feels perfect, and its impossibly hard to imagine the engineering work behind the scenes to make it feel this good.
In contrast, the low speed comfort and compliance of the GT4's chassis is brilliant when driving at normal speeds, and cabin noise (tyre roar) isn't noticeable. a 991 GT3 feels more busy and noisier, and therefore more tiring to live with. 997 GT3 even more so
Folding buckets are fractionally more comfortable than the 918 lightweight buckets, but as the 918 seats have height adjustment, and sit lower, I do prefer them.
My order of preference 991 GT3; GT4; 997 GT3; 991 GTS. The 991 GT3 just pips the GT4, and only because of the spine tingling noises it makes during that last 500rpm...stupid I know...!
ST back next week....proper 'tingler' ...no button there
Edited by Robbo66 on Monday 21st September 23:47
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Trust me, I do get the whole 'doing it yourself'...I used to have a Group A Evo 6 rallycar with a dog box. Few things focus the mind like flying along at over 100mph on a wet gravel road down to a hairpin....you're braking hard with your left foot, and banging the gears in while rev matching.....its off the scale as far as excitement goes, and the loss of traction when the transmission locks up if you don't get it right is pretty hairy, and keeps you on your toes. But I still find the auto blip a novelty in the GT4.....Re a GT4 PDK, it wouldn't suit the character of the car. The 991 GT3 is perfectly suited to a PDK, and I like that car too.....
What have we started with this discussion....!
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