Feedback from Gen 2 engine failures
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I know being mindbogglingly arrogant is your specialty, as many on this forum have called you out on over the years that we have had to suffer this, but you can't actually change the definition of a word to suit your own purpose. Intent is not mentioned in the dictionary definition that I posted for you above. And actually, if you look again, you got nasty first. Old chum.
There is only one criminal intent and nasty group of people on this topic, and that can be layed right back to Germany.
The reason people get nasty on this Porsche forum is because Porsche sold cars to people who bought in good faith, but quite a few have payed the price of depreciation and an engine rebuild just to rub it in?
I fully understand Baz asking the question, and there may be part of the question that seems that he is touting for business, but don't worry there are plenty of other Porsche cars out there for him to repair for many years to come before they start finding the odd gen2 car.
At least when TVR had problems they did their best,with limited funds to try to do the right thing, but failed, and went bust!!!
For all you people who appear to live in make pretend world that Porsche gen1s actually don't break down any more than any other modern sports cars, tell me anywhere else where there are companies around the country making a living rebuilding another manufacturers sports car engines at the same rate as Porsche cars.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I have bought a 981 cayman and love it to bits.....
I looked at quite a few 996, 997 gen1s and they all had problems with the engines, some had been repaired to a good standard.
The last one 997 gen1 had a replacement engine at 25k.
I thought that must be a great buy with 47k on the clock in pristine condition, from a highly reputable dealer.
I asked the salesman who I know well, to please have the engine tested for bore score............. He did....... And refused to sell me the car ????
That tells the whole story really doesn't it.
I feel that sorry for all those people that bought in good faith and had to explain to the wife that he has to have a new engine fitted to the car although he cosited the car and did everything to look after it thinking he didn't need a warrenty as it runs beautiful dear.......
To my knowledge, and experience, if there is anyone left out there that still thinks he just has to have any gen1 car, just have a visit to where Baz works, and only ever get it repaired there.....
Or the best thing is to buy one that has just been repaired by Baz, and still get a good warrenty, just in case...........
Gadgit
The reason people get nasty on this Porsche forum is because Porsche sold cars to people who bought in good faith, but quite a few have payed the price of depreciation and an engine rebuild just to rub it in?
I fully understand Baz asking the question, and there may be part of the question that seems that he is touting for business, but don't worry there are plenty of other Porsche cars out there for him to repair for many years to come before they start finding the odd gen2 car.
At least when TVR had problems they did their best,with limited funds to try to do the right thing, but failed, and went bust!!!
For all you people who appear to live in make pretend world that Porsche gen1s actually don't break down any more than any other modern sports cars, tell me anywhere else where there are companies around the country making a living rebuilding another manufacturers sports car engines at the same rate as Porsche cars.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I have bought a 981 cayman and love it to bits.....
I looked at quite a few 996, 997 gen1s and they all had problems with the engines, some had been repaired to a good standard.
The last one 997 gen1 had a replacement engine at 25k.
I thought that must be a great buy with 47k on the clock in pristine condition, from a highly reputable dealer.
I asked the salesman who I know well, to please have the engine tested for bore score............. He did....... And refused to sell me the car ????
That tells the whole story really doesn't it.
I feel that sorry for all those people that bought in good faith and had to explain to the wife that he has to have a new engine fitted to the car although he cosited the car and did everything to look after it thinking he didn't need a warrenty as it runs beautiful dear.......
To my knowledge, and experience, if there is anyone left out there that still thinks he just has to have any gen1 car, just have a visit to where Baz works, and only ever get it repaired there.....
Or the best thing is to buy one that has just been repaired by Baz, and still get a good warrenty, just in case...........
Gadgit
gadgit said:
There is only one criminal intent and nasty group of people on this topic, and that can be layed right back to Germany.
The reason people get nasty on this Porsche forum is because Porsche sold cars to people who bought in good faith, but quite a few have payed the price of depreciation and an engine rebuild just to rub it in?
I fully understand Baz asking the question, and there may be part of the question that seems that he is touting for business, but don't worry there are plenty of other Porsche cars out there for him to repair for many years to come before they start finding the odd gen2 car.
At least when TVR had problems they did their best,with limited funds to try to do the right thing, but failed, and went bust!!!
For all you people who appear to live in make pretend world that Porsche gen1s actually don't break down any more than any other modern sports cars, tell me anywhere else where there are companies around the country making a living rebuilding another manufacturers sports car engines at the same rate as Porsche cars.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I have bought a 981 cayman and love it to bits.....
I looked at quite a few 996, 997 gen1s and they all had problems with the engines, some had been repaired to a good standard.
The last one 997 gen1 had a replacement engine at 25k.
I thought that must be a great buy with 47k on the clock in pristine condition, from a highly reputable dealer.
I asked the salesman who I know well, to please have the engine tested for bore score............. He did....... And refused to sell me the car ????
That tells the whole story really doesn't it.
I feel that sorry for all those people that bought in good faith and had to explain to the wife that he has to have a new engine fitted to the car although he cosited the car and did everything to look after it thinking he didn't need a warrenty as it runs beautiful dear.......
To my knowledge, and experience, if there is anyone left out there that still thinks he just has to have any gen1 car, just have a visit to where Baz works, and only ever get it repaired there.....
Or the best thing is to buy one that has just been repaired by Baz, and still get a good warrenty, just in case...........
Gadgit
Okay okay hold on a minute, I am an economist and work with data and facts and I can tell you comprehensively data analysis always means rationally a gen 1 should be purchased over a gen 2 7 days of the week.The reason people get nasty on this Porsche forum is because Porsche sold cars to people who bought in good faith, but quite a few have payed the price of depreciation and an engine rebuild just to rub it in?
I fully understand Baz asking the question, and there may be part of the question that seems that he is touting for business, but don't worry there are plenty of other Porsche cars out there for him to repair for many years to come before they start finding the odd gen2 car.
At least when TVR had problems they did their best,with limited funds to try to do the right thing, but failed, and went bust!!!
For all you people who appear to live in make pretend world that Porsche gen1s actually don't break down any more than any other modern sports cars, tell me anywhere else where there are companies around the country making a living rebuilding another manufacturers sports car engines at the same rate as Porsche cars.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I have bought a 981 cayman and love it to bits.....
I looked at quite a few 996, 997 gen1s and they all had problems with the engines, some had been repaired to a good standard.
The last one 997 gen1 had a replacement engine at 25k.
I thought that must be a great buy with 47k on the clock in pristine condition, from a highly reputable dealer.
I asked the salesman who I know well, to please have the engine tested for bore score............. He did....... And refused to sell me the car ????
That tells the whole story really doesn't it.
I feel that sorry for all those people that bought in good faith and had to explain to the wife that he has to have a new engine fitted to the car although he cosited the car and did everything to look after it thinking he didn't need a warrenty as it runs beautiful dear.......
To my knowledge, and experience, if there is anyone left out there that still thinks he just has to have any gen1 car, just have a visit to where Baz works, and only ever get it repaired there.....
Or the best thing is to buy one that has just been repaired by Baz, and still get a good warrenty, just in case...........
Gadgit
Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
YoungMD said:
Okay okay hold on a minute, I am an economist and work with data and facts and I can tell you comprehensively data analysis always means rationally a gen 1 should be purchased over a gen 2 7 days of the week.
Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
Totally disagree!Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
A good gen 1 S 2008 with say 80k miles is what £30k+(y X £11k) + Z for worry every time you start up!
Where as recently saw a good 1 owner 80k miles 2009 gen 2 for £33k - Z for no worry of the engine imploding!
I know which one I would buy!
Everyone (mostly anyway) on this forum loves their Porsche, I'am very appreciative of Hartech taking a pro-active interest in any potential engine issues with these cars after all it's a horrendously expensive part to replace if it fails, if these people didn't exist we would be well and truly stuck with blown engines and worthless cars.
Baz ask as many questions as you like...we may all need your services at some point.
Baz ask as many questions as you like...we may all need your services at some point.
YoungMD said:
Okay okay hold on a minute, I am an economist and work with data and facts and I can tell you comprehensively data analysis always means rationally a gen 1 should be purchased over a gen 2 7 days of the week.
Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
There are other improvements to Gen 2 cars over and above the replacement engine though....and Gen 2 weren't I believe made in the same volumes either. Also for a lot of people having a car that hasn't been repaired however well is important. You can also still get an OPC Warranty on a Gen 2 which you can't on a repaired Gen 1 I believe. Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
GT4P said:
YoungMD said:
Okay okay hold on a minute, I am an economist and work with data and facts and I can tell you comprehensively data analysis always means rationally a gen 1 should be purchased over a gen 2 7 days of the week.
Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
Totally disagree!Gen 1 car = £20- £25k + (y x £11k) x p
Gen 2 car = £33- £37k × p
Y = the % chance of a gen 1 engine failing in your ownership
P = the fact that some people prefer a gen 1 car or a gen 2 car. In my example it's always 100%, subject for another thread.
Market economics tells you to buy a gen 1 unless your p value is not 100%
A good gen 1 S 2008 with say 80k miles is what £30k+(y X £11k) + Z for worry every time you start up!
Where as recently saw a good 1 owner 80k miles 2009 gen 2 for £33k - Z for no worry of the engine imploding!
I know which one I would buy!
It always amazes me how emotional some people beome on this subject. Its like you're criticising their children!
Guess what, engines dont last forever. Some Porsche engines are more fragile in some areas than others.
Where exactly would we be without the likes of Baz coming up with innovative solutions?
Guess what, engines dont last forever. Some Porsche engines are more fragile in some areas than others.
Where exactly would we be without the likes of Baz coming up with innovative solutions?
mollytherocker said:
It always amazes me how emotional some people beome on this subject. Its like you're criticising their children!
Guess what, engines dont last forever. Some Porsche engines are more fragile in some areas than others.
Where exactly would we be without the likes of Baz coming up with innovative solutions?
Yeh, what dumb f*cks, I'm sure I wouldn't feel in the least bit "emotional" if I'd been a 996 or 997 owner whose engine had just D chunked it's liners, scored its bores or shat it's IMS bearing a few months out of warranty, only for Reading or Stuttgart to respond by saying "Tough, you're on your own buddy".Guess what, engines dont last forever. Some Porsche engines are more fragile in some areas than others.
Where exactly would we be without the likes of Baz coming up with innovative solutions?
But you're right, engines don't last forever, but there's a subtle difference between an engine wearing out over many tens of thousands of miles, and an engine failures such as many 996/7 owners experienced.
Well said slippy diff.....
Just to confirm the info I had with the 997 gen1 which had an engine self distruct at 25k miles, I contacted the Porsche main dealer who repaired the 997 for the owner to see if that 997 had been updated in any way to offset problems.
The main dealer technician told me they just put in another engine off the shelf with no mods and therefore identical to the original.
Thats why 23k miles later the bores were scored again.
Apparently thats a better buy than a gen2...........after having two engines fitted in 48k miles....
If you have an engine replaced by Porsche for a gen1 don't expect them to do what Baz does, just expect to fit another engine 30k miles later if you are prepared to take the risk in the first place.
Only a mad man would do that.
Gadgit
Just to confirm the info I had with the 997 gen1 which had an engine self distruct at 25k miles, I contacted the Porsche main dealer who repaired the 997 for the owner to see if that 997 had been updated in any way to offset problems.
The main dealer technician told me they just put in another engine off the shelf with no mods and therefore identical to the original.
Thats why 23k miles later the bores were scored again.
Apparently thats a better buy than a gen2...........after having two engines fitted in 48k miles....
If you have an engine replaced by Porsche for a gen1 don't expect them to do what Baz does, just expect to fit another engine 30k miles later if you are prepared to take the risk in the first place.
Only a mad man would do that.
Gadgit
Magic919 said:
I already have.
Have you? All I can see is this:Magic919 said:
I'm sure Baz appreciates that the number is small. When he first posted the topic (elsewhere) there were a couple being repaired, not at Hartech. I expect a few have been replaced or fixed under warranty at Porsche.
I think there's a larger market for PDK repair, but time will tell.
I meant, has anyone got a report of an actual failure, what happened, when, etc?I think there's a larger market for PDK repair, but time will tell.
There's nothing I could have done differently, IMO. I bought mine used in 2013 and suspect the damage was already done. It turned into a catastrophic failure when I'd only had it for some weeks.
Of all the Gen 2 997s, I've not seen another failure on PH. There are a couple that I've seen elsewhere. I think it's worth keeping it in perspective.
There are plenty of other things that afflict the Gen 2s, but other than the PDK box they are pretty moderate costs. Don't have nightmares.
Of all the Gen 2 997s, I've not seen another failure on PH. There are a couple that I've seen elsewhere. I think it's worth keeping it in perspective.
There are plenty of other things that afflict the Gen 2s, but other than the PDK box they are pretty moderate costs. Don't have nightmares.
The fact that there really aren't many people coming forward after nearly 9 years of production suggests that the engines are more reliable. I accept that Porsche's regular M96 handling was especially poor and engendered real ill will and so magnified the problem. However, there are many examples of IMS failure on relatively young cars (2-3 years) and indeed bore scoring and D-chunking on cars not that much older. Surely from a statistical point of view if there is a meaningful problem then we would have seen signs of it so far.
Conclusion: from what Baz has had to say about design and materials, having owned 2 996 Carreras, having been on the Hartech scheme for 6 years, I would not think of buying a 997.1. The 997.2 is far better and it's that peace of mind every time you get in the car or fancy driving to France in it. Oddly, perhaps, I still like 996.1 Carreras. But they cost £15K not the £25K of the 997. I am a teacher and need to consider maintenance and residuals quite seriously. I bought a 996 Turbo.
Conclusion: from what Baz has had to say about design and materials, having owned 2 996 Carreras, having been on the Hartech scheme for 6 years, I would not think of buying a 997.1. The 997.2 is far better and it's that peace of mind every time you get in the car or fancy driving to France in it. Oddly, perhaps, I still like 996.1 Carreras. But they cost £15K not the £25K of the 997. I am a teacher and need to consider maintenance and residuals quite seriously. I bought a 996 Turbo.
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