Porsche 'conning' uk GT4 owners out of their cars 4 profit?!
Discussion
king mad.I live in North Norfolk and talking to a local specialist he knows of 4 GT4s in the area and one of those was bought for well in excess of £100k when new.
My opinion is they will level off around £65-75 K as there are more around than people think, and all are manual which will limit the market a bit more.
My opinion is they will level off around £65-75 K as there are more around than people think, and all are manual which will limit the market a bit more.
He made one good point. The current speculation has resulted in cars that can no longer be driven for fear of resale, which is absolutely ridiculous but now the case. You buy the best going road car and cannot drive it unless you clock it (which I do not condone) or you accept the depreciation. As most buy on finance, convincing themselves it is the sensible option, then it forces their hand with regards to the amount of fun they can have.
burman said:
I live in North Norfolk and talking to a local specialist he knows of 4 GT4s in the area and one of those was bought for well in excess of £100k when new.
If used then 100k yes but not when new. You couldn't get to 100k even if you ticked all the options.So this guy in the OP's link bought a used GT4 hoping that they'd continue to rise?!
He really didn't do his homework did he and now he's grumpy and slagging people off.
The GT4's value was always going to follow that of the 991 GT3's in behaviour, rise straight away to a point / value and from there decline slowly over the coming years albeit quite slowly still making them a good buy in terms of not losing your shirt.
This guy needs an office job. He's not made for TV.
nw942 said:
How mileage sensitive are they ATM?
There is a fair spread of prices and mileages on the Approved Site. If you put 3k on a car that's done 4k, is it really going to knock that much off?
It's not just the effect of adding miles that has to be taken into account; as with all cars, you also have to factor in the 'hysteresis cost' of buying a car at a retail price (let's say from an OPC with their retail margin included) and then selling back at a lower trade price (allowing room for the OPC's overhead costs and mark-up again in this example). There is a fair spread of prices and mileages on the Approved Site. If you put 3k on a car that's done 4k, is it really going to knock that much off?
I'm guessing here but let's say that the typical buy-to-sell margin on a representive GT4 priced at around £85k is, what, about £6k at present? Maybe more... So any further reduction in value caused by adding miles has to be added on top of this not insignificant figure. I'd like to think that the mileage factor should not be as important in this mix of costs as you might think, but there again with around 22 cars in the OPC network (and a similar number available elesewhere), most with very low miles, perhaps it's the case that a low-miler car will simply be easier to sell than one with more on the clock. With so much choice, surely you'd choose a low-mileage car every time unless a higher mileage car was available at a significantly lower cost?
Edited by short-shift on Wednesday 26th July 20:42
leemanning said:
So let me get this straight
He bought a car (regardless that it's a GT4 over list etc)
The dealer called and offered him a part ex price and talked down the value of it
He then part ex'd it, bought another car and the dealer sold it on for profit?
What part of that is not OK?
You missed the bit where he obviously wanted to pile the miles on it and then flip it as a pension fund. A bit of a dreamer but it's someone elses fault not his.He bought a car (regardless that it's a GT4 over list etc)
The dealer called and offered him a part ex price and talked down the value of it
He then part ex'd it, bought another car and the dealer sold it on for profit?
What part of that is not OK?
I really don't understand the mentality underpinning this.
A car isn't a precious metal nor is it a stock nor a work of art to be bought as an investment
ITS A CAR
It was made to be driven. If you buy it, drive it (hopefully you enjoy it) and it happens to break even or make money when you sell it then fantastic, but the point of buying a car it to drive it, not to park it in an air conditioned garage and mentally masturbate over what it'll be worth in months or years.
The only notable exception to this is if you are car dealer.
The idea that someone would buy a Porsche from the GT range whether it's a GT2, 3 or 4 (RS or not) and not drive it because they're afraid it might devalue is simply madness. Buy the car you want to drive, drive it and accept it'll cost you money to drive it as practically every new car always has. By all means buy smart and buy something that gives you maximum fun for minimum cost of ownership but the constant paranoia over what your car will be worth when you sell it must surely detract hugely from the whole experience of owning one of these truly great cars.
DRIVE IT, THAT'S WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR!
Rant Over...and yes I do feel better now.
A car isn't a precious metal nor is it a stock nor a work of art to be bought as an investment
ITS A CAR
It was made to be driven. If you buy it, drive it (hopefully you enjoy it) and it happens to break even or make money when you sell it then fantastic, but the point of buying a car it to drive it, not to park it in an air conditioned garage and mentally masturbate over what it'll be worth in months or years.
The only notable exception to this is if you are car dealer.
The idea that someone would buy a Porsche from the GT range whether it's a GT2, 3 or 4 (RS or not) and not drive it because they're afraid it might devalue is simply madness. Buy the car you want to drive, drive it and accept it'll cost you money to drive it as practically every new car always has. By all means buy smart and buy something that gives you maximum fun for minimum cost of ownership but the constant paranoia over what your car will be worth when you sell it must surely detract hugely from the whole experience of owning one of these truly great cars.
DRIVE IT, THAT'S WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR!
Rant Over...and yes I do feel better now.
Unfortunately with GT porsches and special limited run cars it's simply supply and demand that has meant people who perhaps cannot afford one or can just about afford one buy one hoping to make money. So they'll probably flip it. But then you have people who can perhaps just about to afford one used at over list so they're extremely careful and don't want to lose much and it's those that we perhaps hear from most on this topic plus those that are thinking about buying at over list.
I think it's got to the point that even people who can comfortably afford one are in the mindset that they don't want to lose money!
Mines outside, covered in crap and flies with plenty of miles under its belt but I do find myself wondering if I should take the other car sometimes to keep the miles down! I don't very often but it's still a niggle in the back of my mind!
As long as we have a limited run model, we'll have this situation so it's not really going to go away. Be it a Rolex, a Ferrari or a GT4.
I think it's got to the point that even people who can comfortably afford one are in the mindset that they don't want to lose money!
Mines outside, covered in crap and flies with plenty of miles under its belt but I do find myself wondering if I should take the other car sometimes to keep the miles down! I don't very often but it's still a niggle in the back of my mind!
As long as we have a limited run model, we'll have this situation so it's not really going to go away. Be it a Rolex, a Ferrari or a GT4.
Edited by Fokker on Wednesday 26th July 21:39
ORD said:
George Smiley said:
Of course Porsche have cashed in on this by now making it neigh on impossible for actual driving enthusiasts to buy their drivers cars.
See GT2 thread.
Why? It's an expensive car. It's not surprising that it's not available to people on benefits.See GT2 thread.
ORD said:
Why? It's an expensive car. It's not surprising that it's not available to people on benefits.
Stupid comment !with only 100 or so cars many people who love Porkers and have the money cannot goto a showroom and buy one,
GT cars now fetch overs so you have 1000's people dealing in cars now to make money, like Rolex, RC models, even Lego.
Porsche don't mind the overs really as it's selling all their cars without having spend any money on adverts etc, ALL cars are pre sold out with zero discounts.
The issue is we will see GT3's and GT2 RS on day one at Top555, Romans etc so it's not really fun any more.
Before if you really liked a car you could buy a 2nd hand one 3 years old etc now the ave person will never own any of the Sports range.
The big winners are McLaren and if Porsche want to loose a loads of buyers to other markets they have done a good job so far.
But while there are people willing to pay more than retail to own these cars there will be people flipping them for money, it's not hard to work out is it ?
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff