996 C4S possible purchase

[Galahad]

I've been looking at getting my first Porsche and have been considering everything from a 997 C2S, to a 991 C2 and then a 718 Cayman S (or upcoming GTS). Budget started off at £40k and then crept to circa £60k ish as it does..
Anyway, was chatting with a friend about it and he mentions that his boss was offloading some of his collection to make way for some new toys.

He's got a 2003 C4S, black with black leather, manual, no sunroof and sports exhaust. 44k miles with full main dealer history.
It's not had the IMS done, but the engine was fully inspected when he bought it and given a clean bill of health and he's done less than 5k miles in the 3 years since. He said he planned to do it when he changed the clutch but has used it so little it's never needed doing yet.

It's not what I was looking for at all, but I drove it this morning and LOVED it! It felt as tight as a new car and pulled up and tracked straight with no play in the steering or looseness in the suspension. It sounded great too.

Prices for these seem to be all over the place, but he's been offered £25k by a trader who said they'd come and buy it immediately, so I have the opportunity to get it for that price.

I'm not normally an impulse buyer, but I have a good feeling about this. What does the PH Porsche massive think?

Edited by Galahad on Thursday 21st September 20:20

[Jefferson Steelflex]

I’m not sure if I represent the PH massive, especially as my own new C4S is getting its engine rebuilt after only 3 weeks of ownership, but 100% you should buy the car.

Might be worth agreeing to buy subject to a PPI, but honestly these are not going to get any cheaper and you’ll most likely get your money back in a year if you decide to move it on.

It’s easy to spend other people’s money, but these cars are “where it’s at” right now and if it’s in as good as a condition as you say then I’d be all over it.

[rubystone]

I was offered a similar car with similar mileage in the trade for the same money a couple of months ago (did your friend try to partex it for a Ferrari by any chance?) but turned it down because I believe that's its retail in the current market. Seems I'm wrong though if the trade is bidding £25k!

[IanG1]

That's a good offer from a trader, I have studied C4S values for a while with a view to a potential purchase and that car would probably currently retail at around £30K. Bearing in mind what these cars at 14 years old regardless of mileage can highlight at a PPI (coolant and aircon rads, suspension work, RMS leaks, corroded discs from standing) you can eat through a few grand easily. Good Luck. I've given up on a 996 C4S and decided a 997 C2 or C2S better suits me, I currently have a 986S and paying such a premium to sit and look at the same dash and interior is hard to justify LOL

[Galahad]

Jefferson Steelflex said:

I’m not sure if I represent the PH massive, especially as my own new C4S is getting its engine rebuilt after only 3 weeks of ownership, but 100% you should buy the car.

Might be worth agreeing to buy subject to a PPI, but honestly these are not going to get any cheaper and you’ll most likely get your money back in a year if you decide to move it on.

It’s easy to spend other people’s money, but these cars are “where it’s at” right now and if it’s in as good as a condition as you say then I’d be all over it.

Ouch - fingers crossed the same won't happen to this one but it sounds like you're taking it very well! Did you get it inspected before buying?

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The Rads and Brakes are original but he had it all checked before he bought it and they were fine. Worth getting looked at again thought I think,

rubystone said:

I was offered a similar car with similar mileage in the trade for the same money a couple of months ago (did your friend try to partex it for a Ferrari by any chance?) but turned it down because I believe that's its retail in the current market. Seems I'm wrong though if the trade is bidding £25k!

I don't think so but it's possibly the same car - he's very much a Porsche guy though.

IanG1 said:

That's a good offer from a trader, I have studied C4S values for a while with a view to a potential purchase and that car would probably currently retail at around £30K. Bearing in mind what these cars at 14 years old regardless of mileage can highlight at a PPI (coolant and aircon rads, suspension work, RMS leaks, corroded discs from standing) you can eat through a few grand easily. Good Luck. I've given up on a 996 C4S and decided a 997 C2 or C2S better suits me, I currently have a 986S and paying such a premium to sit and look at the same dash and interior is hard to justify LOL

I do like the look of 997s but the 996 C4S has always been a favourite of mine and I quietly hope that it might be a safer financial bet than a higher mileage, possibly tattier 997 for the same sort of money.

Edited by Galahad on Friday 22 September 13:32

[IanG1]

Galahad said:

I do like the look of 997s but the 996 C4S has always been a favourite of mine and I quietly hope that it might be a safer financial bet than a higher mileage, possibly tattier 997 for the same sort of money.

Edited by Galahad on Friday 22 September 13:32

To be honest they are pretty much the same the 997 is probably slightly cheaper for equivalent mileage etc but 996 C4S is certainly on the rise but values may have peaked in the short term around 30K

[Jefferson Steelflex]

Galahad said:

Ouch - fingers crossed the same won't happen to this one but it sounds like you're taking it very well! Did you get it inspected before buying?

Edited by Galahad on Friday 22 September 13:32

There’s another thread about it which I haven’t updated for a few days, but having bought from a specialist dealer I knew I had the chance to get the inspection done post-sale. The dealer is covering the repair so I’m ok with the whole thing.

If you’re buying one of these cars, you have to go in with eyes open and not be put off by the odd large repair. I’m lucky that mine is being covered.

I’ll update the other thread once I have a definitive outcome, but everything is moving along. Good luck with yours, if it’s clear then just get it bought.

[EGTE]

Do it; pretty sure you won't regret it.

IMS doesn't need "doing". At most, just remove outer dust seal when doing clutch.

My personal favourite to drive is the 996 C2, but the C4S does look fantastic and is the most likely model to never lose you money, I'd say.

[Roberty]

IanG1 said:

I currently have a 986S and paying such a premium to sit and look at the same dash and interior is hard to justify LOL

I made the same move from a 986S to a 996C4S some 4 years ago and had the very same concern. Paying a premium for what, sat in the drivers seat would look like and might feel like the same car.

Until I drove one! Obviously the interior looks outwardly the same, depends whether you have a gen 1 or 2 986. There are differences and the C4S comes with far more leather and other standard equipment than the Boxster every did which lifts the feel.

The drive is very different, there is a weight to the steering that the Boxster just doesn't have and the extra power is very noticeable. I had my old Boxster break away from me even with Traction control on on many an occasion which was entertaining to a point. I've pushed the C4S far harder than The Boxster could ever manage and although I've felt the front push wide and seen the traction control light flicker on a wet roundabout it's never broken away. The confidence in the grip and braking you have in the 911 is fantastic.

I've also driven a couple of 997 C2S and was a little underwhelmed. I expected a step on from the 996 but although the dash is very different in the 997 it is still the same as the equivalent generation Boxster and is about plasticky and doesn't seem to wear too well. The car doesn't come as well appointed as standard so finding one with full leather and other desirables is a chore. And to drive again slightly disappointing, the additional power isn't noticeable, not in a gen 1 anyway. And the handling although prodigious is not up to that of the C4S feeling Iight at the front and not inspiring you out of wet junctions. I guess that's down to the RWD driveline as much as anything. The brakes too don't feel as good as the C4S either which I believe has bigger discs and calipers than the 997.

You really need to try both back to back and then consider whether the interior still bothers you.

[kev.RS]

IanG1 said:

Bearing in mind what these cars at 14 years old regardless of mileage can highlight at a PPI (coolant and aircon rads, suspension work, RMS leaks, corroded discs from standing) you can eat through a few grand easily

Exactly as Ian says, there will always be something to do on a car that age whether it be mechanical or cosmetic but what you do put it will help its value so not all dead money
I would personally have the clutch, ims and rms done at the start as it will make sure that nothing drastic happens and will tick 3 things off of any future buyers list.

Look out for the rear boxes splitting at the seams as that is where the water sits and they rust through also look at the rest of the exhaust system as if original I expect the bolts are pretty much dust!

Check for rust around the door latches and from under the kick plates as 996 suffer with rust from there and also inside edge of tyres as 4wd does go through them

The C4s is a really nice car that is getting rarer and I would say one of the best cars to put money into especially as you have had a bit of a head start in the price and with their prices going up slowly it should be pretty much free motoring.

[Galahad]

Thanks all - very useful feedback. Have agreed to buy the car subject to a PPI which I'm booking in at RPM Technik next week.
Watch this space!

[BK911]

That's a really good deal... I read only yesterday on the 911uk forum someone paying about £20k for a car with over 100k miles on it from 911virgin...

Great opportunity. PPI will reveal anything costly and engine health.

996 C4s has that modern classic appeal about it, gathering a bit of a cult following.

good luck

[WojaWabbit]

PPI should pick up any issues however, as pointed out already, fourteen year old pork can throw up some bills!

Although everyone seems to love a low mileage example, cars that are regularly driven often present less issues, aside from wear and tear. Things like bushes, seals, hoses and clips still perish or corrode unless looked after with regular servicing. A few threads on IMS seem to suggest that low mileage cars are more affected than high milers, due to the seal being well lubricated and not deteriorating.

Things that might appear ok now but could possibly be missed at PPI or could crop up at any time:

Oil filler neck cracking
Coolant tank cracking
Coolant pipes and/or clips corroding; coolant hoses perishing and/or rubbing - 997 upgrade fixed this
Air/Oil separator diaphragm failing
Coil packs cracking
Manifold studs corroding, only really noticed if you need to change the manifold.

Issues with all the other common points like coffin arms, bushes, top mounts, exhaust back boxes, rads, RMS, brakes etc. should be picked up during PPI.

I'd doubt any trader is offering £25k tbh, as most were offering me around £14-15k for my admittedly high miler. 45k mile cars being marketed around £27-30k don't seem to be shifting quickly. That being said, if you could pick it up privately for £25k it would be a decent buy. I'd certainly go for it!

Keep us posted on the results of the PPI!

[Galahad]

I have no reason to doubt the trade offer - he's the boss of a very long term and trusted friend of mine, and my friend has been dealing with the sale and offers etc. I know it was one of 2 or 3 cars of his that the same trader was bidding on so maybe that allowed his bid to be generous.

Rather excited now and fingers crossed the PPI comes back positive!

[WojaWabbit]

Galahad said:

I have no reason to doubt the trade offer - he's the boss of a very long term and trusted friend of mine, and my friend has been dealing with the sale and offers etc. I know it was one of 2 or 3 cars of his that the same trader was bidding on so maybe that allowed his bid to be generous.

Rather excited now and fingers crossed the PPI comes back positive!

Good stuff, perhaps there are some decent traders out there after all!