Can anyone share their experiences of their early Panamera
Discussion
DangerMonkey said:
Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true
I bet it won't get sold at £42k.When I traded in my 62 plate GTS back in June with nearly 50k miles, I was offered £34k p/x value by two non-Porsche dealers before eventually getting offered £40k p/x value by the two OPCs I called, but that was also against cars they'd had in stock for a while.
The spec on mine was quite low other than having Bose and being GT Silver but the condition was good. It was on the market at Porsche Silverstone for ages, first at maybe £48.5k before being reduced to £46k or thereabouts...I've no idea what it sold for but I bet the trade price for the car would be around £30k now, maybe less.
I thought I would add some thoughts from my Panamera search.
I drove a couple of GTS / 4s and Turbo's (2009-2012) in the search for my Panamera. Specification is an absolute minefield with these cars and the poorly loaded ones hang round in the classifieds forever whereas the 'right' ones go very quickly. I've got the original price list here with all the options, it's something like 80 pages long! Check howmanyleft, Porsche didn't sell that many V8's in the UK so in the used market it really is a case of waiting carefully for the right car with the right options, don't rush into it. Get very used to looking at centre consoles in classifieds and working out the buttons....
Controversial this but coming from a powerful diesel saloon I was underwhelmed by the performance of the 4s, it simply wasn't quick enough. The GTS on the other hand is hilarious, it also solves the options list conundrum a little bit as the GTS is basically a well specified 4s as standard, it really engages, wills you to rev it out and the sports exhaust sounds amazing on the overrun. You don't get the hilarious pops etc that the GTS provides with the sports exhaust on the 4s and Turbo. PDK is awesome. The GTS probably shifted the best, it was the newest car though. In the end I went for a Turbo as more of the options become standard. It also has the torque at low revs which I have come to expect as was well the ability to merge the horizon your present position. It really is that quick. Steering is excellent on all of them, it really disguises the mass being lugged around behind you. Check the radiators at the front, like most Porsche's they can pick up road damage and in any case I would get the car inspected ideally before purchase.
Ideal options list in my opinion, feel free to disagree
Must haves?
Sound system - at least Bose (standard on Turbo), Burmester even better
Multi function steering wheel (why wasn't this standard?)
Insulating Glass
Interior carbon pack (must for me, wood trims
)
Powerlift rear
Sports Chrono Plus (standard on Turbo)
Heated Steering Wheel (never had one before, fantastic)
Heated seats (standard on Turbo)
Sports seats / comfort memory / seat package (you can tell by the different pattern on the seat centres)
Keyless go / entry and drive (standard on Turbo)
Park assist (absolute must have, pain to maneuver otherwise, standard on Turbo. Later cars have a parking display on the PCM rather than just beeps)
Adaptive Air Suspension (again, standard on Turbo. You could argue this is just another big bill waiting to go wrong....)
Nice haves?
Sports design kit (brings the front up to date on earlier cars)
Adaptive lighting (headlights turn with the steering, standard on Turbo)
Switchable sports exhaust (it's fun to rev that V8 at a standstill but doesn't make a tremendous difference inside on the move)
Rear Seat Entertainment (TV screens)
Sunroof (not something I'm fused about)
20" wheels / Turbo II alloys (the Panamera needs big wheels to look acceptable in my opinion)
Not haves?
Rear wiper (why why why waste money on this, it's completely pointless)
Carbon brakes (PCCB's - get a stone caught and the potential bill could be large. As a general rule, 4s => Grey Calipers, Turbo => Red, PCCB's => Yellow )
4-zone air con (it looks great as an option but reality we rarely use it)
Electric sunroof
Servicing
Actually quite a cheap proposition as it's bi-annual / 20,000 miles although Porsche will probably badger you for 'check-ups' in between. The services alternate between minor and major. The interesting bit is this - lots of cars are temptingly for sale now at, coming up to, or older than the six year mark. Check the service history as at the 6 year mark it will likely be due the following
- Service (probably a major)
- Brake fluid (bi-annual like the service)
- Air filter change (6yr requirement)
- Drive Belt (6yr requirement)
- PDK oil change and PDCC reservoir replacement (6yrs or 60,000 miles)
- Spark plugs (6yrs or 60,000 miles? Can't remember off the top of my head, may be sooner)
Tyres
Look for the 'N', Porsche rating on the sidewall otherwise you won't be able to take out an OPC warranty without changing them if that's your thing. Otherwise standard fit tends to be continentals. Having said that I'm going to swap to Pilot Super Sports next having had good experiences of them but the Continentals are harder wearing.
Warrenty
Engine replacement or PDK could be huge bills so
a) gamble / self insure as they are pretty reliable, not too many horror stories on the internet
b) go comprehensive with OPC and 111 point check (£200 inspection + £1500ish/yr. Inspection is included in premium if it passes, I think you have to take out the warranty on the day)
c) warranty direct or similar to cover the big mechanical bits (£70 inspection + £700ish/yr)
Hope that helps, they are awesome beasts in which to transport the family
I drove a couple of GTS / 4s and Turbo's (2009-2012) in the search for my Panamera. Specification is an absolute minefield with these cars and the poorly loaded ones hang round in the classifieds forever whereas the 'right' ones go very quickly. I've got the original price list here with all the options, it's something like 80 pages long! Check howmanyleft, Porsche didn't sell that many V8's in the UK so in the used market it really is a case of waiting carefully for the right car with the right options, don't rush into it. Get very used to looking at centre consoles in classifieds and working out the buttons....
Controversial this but coming from a powerful diesel saloon I was underwhelmed by the performance of the 4s, it simply wasn't quick enough. The GTS on the other hand is hilarious, it also solves the options list conundrum a little bit as the GTS is basically a well specified 4s as standard, it really engages, wills you to rev it out and the sports exhaust sounds amazing on the overrun. You don't get the hilarious pops etc that the GTS provides with the sports exhaust on the 4s and Turbo. PDK is awesome. The GTS probably shifted the best, it was the newest car though. In the end I went for a Turbo as more of the options become standard. It also has the torque at low revs which I have come to expect as was well the ability to merge the horizon your present position. It really is that quick. Steering is excellent on all of them, it really disguises the mass being lugged around behind you. Check the radiators at the front, like most Porsche's they can pick up road damage and in any case I would get the car inspected ideally before purchase.
Ideal options list in my opinion, feel free to disagree
Must haves?
Sound system - at least Bose (standard on Turbo), Burmester even better
Multi function steering wheel (why wasn't this standard?)
Insulating Glass
Interior carbon pack (must for me, wood trims
)Powerlift rear
Sports Chrono Plus (standard on Turbo)
Heated Steering Wheel (never had one before, fantastic)
Heated seats (standard on Turbo)
Sports seats / comfort memory / seat package (you can tell by the different pattern on the seat centres)
Keyless go / entry and drive (standard on Turbo)
Park assist (absolute must have, pain to maneuver otherwise, standard on Turbo. Later cars have a parking display on the PCM rather than just beeps)
Adaptive Air Suspension (again, standard on Turbo. You could argue this is just another big bill waiting to go wrong....)
Nice haves?
Sports design kit (brings the front up to date on earlier cars)
Adaptive lighting (headlights turn with the steering, standard on Turbo)
Switchable sports exhaust (it's fun to rev that V8 at a standstill but doesn't make a tremendous difference inside on the move)
Rear Seat Entertainment (TV screens)
Sunroof (not something I'm fused about)
20" wheels / Turbo II alloys (the Panamera needs big wheels to look acceptable in my opinion)
Not haves?
Rear wiper (why why why waste money on this, it's completely pointless)
Carbon brakes (PCCB's - get a stone caught and the potential bill could be large. As a general rule, 4s => Grey Calipers, Turbo => Red, PCCB's => Yellow )
4-zone air con (it looks great as an option but reality we rarely use it)
Electric sunroof
Servicing
Actually quite a cheap proposition as it's bi-annual / 20,000 miles although Porsche will probably badger you for 'check-ups' in between. The services alternate between minor and major. The interesting bit is this - lots of cars are temptingly for sale now at, coming up to, or older than the six year mark. Check the service history as at the 6 year mark it will likely be due the following
- Service (probably a major)
- Brake fluid (bi-annual like the service)
- Air filter change (6yr requirement)
- Drive Belt (6yr requirement)
- PDK oil change and PDCC reservoir replacement (6yrs or 60,000 miles)
- Spark plugs (6yrs or 60,000 miles? Can't remember off the top of my head, may be sooner)
Tyres
Look for the 'N', Porsche rating on the sidewall otherwise you won't be able to take out an OPC warranty without changing them if that's your thing. Otherwise standard fit tends to be continentals. Having said that I'm going to swap to Pilot Super Sports next having had good experiences of them but the Continentals are harder wearing.
Warrenty
Engine replacement or PDK could be huge bills so
a) gamble / self insure as they are pretty reliable, not too many horror stories on the internet
b) go comprehensive with OPC and 111 point check (£200 inspection + £1500ish/yr. Inspection is included in premium if it passes, I think you have to take out the warranty on the day)
c) warranty direct or similar to cover the big mechanical bits (£70 inspection + £700ish/yr)
Hope that helps, they are awesome beasts in which to transport the family
Edited by DangerMonkey on Thursday 4th January 10:20
DangerMonkey said:
Mosdef said:
DangerMonkey said:
Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true
I bet it won't get sold at £42k.
DangerMonkey's post sums up my experience of the car really well and having had a poorly specced 2012 GTS for 20k miles followed by a pretty much loaded 2014 Turbo S, the ownership experience is significantly different.
The only differences I would add are:
- 4 zone climate control is very useful if you have sensitive passengers/family members. I also think the rear console looks too blank without it.
- vented seats are excellent and are a nice-to-have. The A/C can be left on a more gentle setting so the driver's hands don't get frozen but back and bum stay cool.
- rear seat entertainment is so dated and inferior to an iPad as to be irrelevant in my experience.
- PCCBs I'm still quite undecided on. I've never met anyone who has had them replaced and there is barely any mention of it on the web. The only replacements seem to be have been on tracked cars, which isn't really what the Panamera is intended for. I have grown to really enjoy the feel of the PCCBs on mine, the clean wheels are a bonus and I believe they improve the ride quality to some extend (970.2 has much better suspension than the 970).
- the sports exhaust on a turbo s makes a big difference in the cabin, when switched on. I didn't find the same in the turbo.
- blinds on rear windows and behind rear seats are fantastic if you can find a car with them.
Regarding tyres, I had Pirellis on my GTS, which I changed for Yokohamas when they wore out. The Yokohamas were far better in terms of ride and noise. The Pirellis also cracked despite quite frequent (weekly/fortnightly) use. They were N rated and about £850 all in on the GTS.
For what it's worth, I would not consider running one without a warranty, my GTS had so many suspension faults, not to mention issues with PDK and electrical gremlins. I saw one bill for something like £5.5k during my ownership, for replacement bushes and other parts, to cure creaking over speed bumps. Luckily it didn't cost me a penny but left me without the car for a week.
The only differences I would add are:
- 4 zone climate control is very useful if you have sensitive passengers/family members. I also think the rear console looks too blank without it.
- vented seats are excellent and are a nice-to-have. The A/C can be left on a more gentle setting so the driver's hands don't get frozen but back and bum stay cool.
- rear seat entertainment is so dated and inferior to an iPad as to be irrelevant in my experience.
- PCCBs I'm still quite undecided on. I've never met anyone who has had them replaced and there is barely any mention of it on the web. The only replacements seem to be have been on tracked cars, which isn't really what the Panamera is intended for. I have grown to really enjoy the feel of the PCCBs on mine, the clean wheels are a bonus and I believe they improve the ride quality to some extend (970.2 has much better suspension than the 970).
- the sports exhaust on a turbo s makes a big difference in the cabin, when switched on. I didn't find the same in the turbo.
- blinds on rear windows and behind rear seats are fantastic if you can find a car with them.
Regarding tyres, I had Pirellis on my GTS, which I changed for Yokohamas when they wore out. The Yokohamas were far better in terms of ride and noise. The Pirellis also cracked despite quite frequent (weekly/fortnightly) use. They were N rated and about £850 all in on the GTS.
For what it's worth, I would not consider running one without a warranty, my GTS had so many suspension faults, not to mention issues with PDK and electrical gremlins. I saw one bill for something like £5.5k during my ownership, for replacement bushes and other parts, to cure creaking over speed bumps. Luckily it didn't cost me a penny but left me without the car for a week.
Agree with above (and DangerMonkey). No real problems and I'm running a Turbo as well (only a few K more than 4S, for +150BHP and air.).
Rear blinds really good at cutting down on glare from following cars at night, plus ignoring hate-stares from those eating your dust :-)
Michelin Pilot Sports are my tyre of choice (was actively dissuaded from using PS4S by Camskill/Michelin).
Rear blinds really good at cutting down on glare from following cars at night, plus ignoring hate-stares from those eating your dust :-)
Michelin Pilot Sports are my tyre of choice (was actively dissuaded from using PS4S by Camskill/Michelin).
The only thing I find an arse are the rear view is quite limited and on full luck under load it seems to want to skip its inside front wheel,I am not looking forward to my first multi story!
Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel s
te
Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel s
tedarronwall said:
The only thing I find an arse are the rear view is quite limited and on full luck under load it seems to want to skip its inside front wheel,I am not looking forward to my first multi story!
Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel ste
The size/blindspots take some getting used to. I had blind spot assist on my first one but not my current car and I do miss it. Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel s
teAckermann effect is quite pronounced on Panameras in colder temperatures.
Avoid multi storey car parks like the plague!
Mosdef said:
The size/blindspots take some getting used to. I had blind spot assist on my first one but not my current car and I do miss it.
Ackermann effect is quite pronounced on Panameras in colder temperatures.
Avoid multi storey car parks like the plague!
The sound in sport plus is quite epic thoAckermann effect is quite pronounced on Panameras in colder temperatures.
Avoid multi storey car parks like the plague!
George Smiley said:
I'd rather go heavily speced than lightly, it really does make a big difference (no poking at the previous poster just spec makes the car)
Couldn’t agree more. My lightly speced GTS was a very different car to my current almost fully speced Turbo S. Makes it far more enjoyable and luxurious. I quite fancy a Panny GTS as a Daily Driver despite the fact we already have a relatively new Cayenne V8 S Diesel which my wife uses. Going to keep an eye on the market and see what comes up. Spec seems to be everything which is certainly the case with the Cayenne too.
Info above is very helpful indeed!
Info above is very helpful indeed!
It’s not so much the profile of the tyres - it’s the huge width of the tyres coupled with the long wheelbase that causes it. My Vantage used to do similar although nowhere near to the same extent...
Given the space, I find if I start with full lock and progressively unwind as I go through the turn I can lesson it to a large degree.
Given the space, I find if I start with full lock and progressively unwind as I go through the turn I can lesson it to a large degree.
I just got my Panamera with 20" wheels at the weekend. I am astounded at how bad the 'Ackerman Affect' is on it.
Even turning into my drive at around 10-15mph, you feel the tyres jumping. It has been cold though, and as above, I think it is meant to be worse in the cold.
But I have never had a car with such a pronounced amount of tyre skipping. Even my California hardly does it unless on full lock
Was going to get it checked out - but by the sounds of it, it is quite normal. Big wheels and wide tyres.
Even turning into my drive at around 10-15mph, you feel the tyres jumping. It has been cold though, and as above, I think it is meant to be worse in the cold.
But I have never had a car with such a pronounced amount of tyre skipping. Even my California hardly does it unless on full lock
Was going to get it checked out - but by the sounds of it, it is quite normal. Big wheels and wide tyres.
Dr mojo said:
Ackermann effect is this the same with all tyres? I have been surprised how noticeable it is on my turbo S. never had that on any previous car even with very low profile tyres.
I think if you use winter tyres it makes a big difference...it certainly has on my Cayenne S. I suspect that Porsche specification "NO" tyres are made of a slighly stiffer (maybe that's not the right technical term) compound than other manufacturers tyres. Never had a similar issue on my old X5 for example and that had run flats.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff