Factory shutdown for 6 months??? Why?

[Cheib]

psmerr said:

. My only concern is that the current pricing is very favourable in Sterling and that Porsche UK may well have to put up prices before my order comes through. Any thoughts on this...am I being paranoid?

.

Price rise was announced in March/April last year and was low single digit's %...IIRC it was applicable to all cars built after the end of May approximately. I doubt on a car that hasn't even started prodcution yet that the price rise would be significant....especially when you look at the overall cost of owning the car. Get the car you want!

[Krikkit]

So said:

996TT02 said:

So said:

BaronMcLaren said:

New emissions regulatory software device if Autocar was to be believed.

.

I had a 1980 911 with emissions reduction on it. It was basically a chuffing great air pump that diluted exhaust gases with lots of air. Still the same crap coming out the exhaust, just mixed with air. Cheating emissions testing is nothing new.

Not at all, air pump served to ensure complete combustion, in the days of carbs and crude mechanical fuel injection unburnt fuel commonly left the tailpipe which is why the odour of petrol was so common.

So how did the air pump ensure complete combustion?

Sorry if already answered, but the idea is that the fuel-rich, but oxygen-low hot exhaust is mixed with a bit more fresh air, allowing the burn to continue in the exhaust (slowly compared to in-cylinder, so heat isn't as much of an issue), reducing the fuel content in the tailpipe.

[5to1]

psmerr said:

I placed an order for new model base Cayenne V6 in early Jan at Bristol OPC with a theoretical build slot of May. The dealer called yesterday to explain the factory shutdown from April until September and said that there are no build slots for base V6 model until November. He offered me a build slot for Cayenne S in April and offered to contribute 1K as a gesture.

I am tempted to wait until the end of the year, as I don't really need the S model. It seems a lot of extra cash for an extra second off the 0-60 time. My only concern is that the current pricing is very favourable in Sterling and that Porsche UK may well have to put up prices before my order comes through. Any thoughts on this...am I being paranoid?

I can see why they would give build slots on base model to other, more profitable, markets...

Been having a dialogue due to a separate issue with some people higher up the food chain. They confirmed the shutdown starting May for approx 6 months. Was advised to get my April build Cayenne spec in sooner rather then later, normally would have till ~March.

Looking at some other threads, I've seen people mention their builds have been pushed to Nov/Dec or even later. This is for all 3 models, so I suspect the dealer is offering you one of their own April slots for the S or they've had someone drop out. I agree its a lot extra for the bump in performance, so can see why you don't want to take the slot.

I wonder what this will do for short term residuals on the new Cayenne. Effectively they're going to get ~1 months deliveries out and then shut down for 6 months. If there had been a bigger difference in the exterior design, I'd be more sure in predicting phenomenal first year residuals due to the shutdown.

Edited by 5to1 on Thursday 1st February 14:04

[psmerr]

OK, so I had my head turned by the offer of a Cayenne S with a small discount. Even though I managed to find a dealer with build slot for a base model, the prospect of 440 BHP was too tempting. I ended up cutting back on some options and ordering the S model on the theory that it would have more "Porscheness" with the 2.9 biturbo.

[neilf]

5to1 said:

psmerr said:

I placed an order for new model base Cayenne V6 in early Jan at Bristol OPC with a theoretical build slot of May. The dealer called yesterday to explain the factory shutdown from April until September and said that there are no build slots for base V6 model until November. He offered me a build slot for Cayenne S in April and offered to contribute 1K as a gesture.

I am tempted to wait until the end of the year, as I don't really need the S model. It seems a lot of extra cash for an extra second off the 0-60 time. My only concern is that the current pricing is very favourable in Sterling and that Porsche UK may well have to put up prices before my order comes through. Any thoughts on this...am I being paranoid?

I can see why they would give build slots on base model to other, more profitable, markets...

Been having a dialogue due to a separate issue with some people higher up the food chain. They confirmed the shutdown starting May for approx 6 months. Was advised to get my April build Cayenne spec in sooner rather then later, normally would have till ~March.

Looking at some other threads, I've seen people mention their builds have been pushed to Nov/Dec or even later. This is for all 3 models, so I suspect the dealer is offering you one of their own April slots for the S or they've had someone drop out. I agree its a lot extra for the bump in performance, so can see why you don't want to take the slot.

I wonder what this will do for short term residuals on the new Cayenne. Effectively they're going to get ~1 months deliveries out and then shut down for 6 months. If there had been a bigger difference in the exterior design, I'd be more sure in predicting phenomenal first year residuals due to the shutdown.

Edited by 5to1 on Thursday 1st February 14:04

Residuals should be amazing. My OPC mentioned they were sitting on 15+ new Cayenne orders but only had 3 confirmed build slots for 2018 due to the shutdown. Could be quite a wait for some.

[brakedwell]

moonigan said:

This is what I was told today by OPC. Factory will continue production but no cars for EU so they can say they have met the quotas for emissions. The only people who will suffer are the guys and girls who are still expected to hit targets to get their commission.

That makes a lot of sense !

[OkRight]

Porsche have shut down rather than face a registration/delivery embargo as per Mercedes Benz. MB are on an embargo for almost all 2.1 engined cars and vans. MB dealers across all of Europe are affected by this. Porsche were facing the same issue and just decided to halt production instead. The wait for your car could be longer than that. They have to solve the problem then get approval from the German Federal MOT to start registering vehicles again. This problem is much bigger than people can imagine.

[Westkirbyman]

Has the shutdown and resulting loss of new 911 had any appreciable difference in residual prices? Can't say I have detected any major change.

Just that I have a high specification one owner ultra low mileage 997.2 C2S which I have considered selling - would now be an opportune time to consider a sale?

[So]

Westkirbyman said:

Has the shutdown and resulting loss of new 911 had any appreciable difference in residual prices? Can't say I have detected any major change.

Just that I have a high specification one owner ultra low mileage 997.2 C2S which I have considered selling - would now be an opportune time to consider a sale?

It's not going to hurt its value, but the buyer who wants a brand new 911 isn't necessarily the same as someone who wants a 997.2. Personally I'd go for the 997 every time, but plenty of people just want the latest and (in their minds) best.

[jonttt]

OkRight said:

Porsche have shut down rather than face a registration/delivery embargo as per Mercedes Benz. MB are on an embargo for almost all 2.1 engined cars and vans. MB dealers across all of Europe are affected by this. Porsche were facing the same issue and just decided to halt production instead. The wait for your car could be longer than that. They have to solve the problem then get approval from the German Federal MOT to start registering vehicles again. This problem is much bigger than people can imagine.

This ie its much more serious than people realise and it affects the whole VAG group. In simple terms they have continued to produce cars within the group that the regulatory bodies are not happy with and they have zero tolerance now. Other parts of the VAG group are sitting on tens of thousands of cars that they cannot sell and if they can;t find a retrofit solution soon they are faced with scraping a lot of brand new cars as that will be cheapest option compared to the fines they face (and potential other actions against the various boards etc....). Porsche have simply had to stop making cars full stop or likely face the same situation.

No doubt they will use it to do other things but make no mistake they have not done this through choice but necessity.

BMW meanwhile are making hey eg we have just flipped company car orders from VAG group to BMW who met our requirements from stock within 14 days. But the rumor mill is BMW will be next.

In simple terms they have all been at it for years re taking the Michael out of the regulatory bodies and now they are paying a price.

Edited by jonttt on Sunday 8th July 12:05

[RSVP911]

jonttt said:

OkRight said:

Porsche have shut down rather than face a registration/delivery embargo as per Mercedes Benz. MB are on an embargo for almost all 2.1 engined cars and vans. MB dealers across all of Europe are affected by this. Porsche were facing the same issue and just decided to halt production instead. The wait for your car could be longer than that. They have to solve the problem then get approval from the German Federal MOT to start registering vehicles again. This problem is much bigger than people can imagine.

This ie its much more serious than people realise and it affects the whole VAG group. In simple terms they have continued to produce cars within the group that the regulatory bodies are not happy with and they have zero tolerance now. Other parts of the VAG group are sitting on tens of thousands of cars that they cannot sell and if they can;t find a retrofit solution soon they are faced with scraping a lot of brand new cars as that will be cheapest option compared to the fines they face (and potential other actions against the various boards etc....). Porsche have simply had to stop making cars full stop or likely face the same situation.

No doubt they will use it to do other things but make no mistake they have not done this through choice but necessity.

BMW meanwhile are making hey eg we have just flipped company car orders from VAG group to BMW who met our requirements from stock within 14 days. But the rumor mill is BMW will be next.

In simple terms they have all been at it for years re taking the Michael out of the regulatory bodies and now they are paying a price.

Edited by jonttt on Sunday 8th July 12:05

Interesting post , thanks - you refer below to them doing other things - I can’t think what ?

“No doubt they will use it to do other things but make no mistake they have not done this through choice but necessity. “

[arcamalpha]

It’s all such a nonsense isn’t it. New regs to reduce emissions which are measured in such a synthetic way. There will just be more pointless tech to squeeze higher performance cars through the test e.g. start stop which no-one ever uses!

Glad I got one just in time as it will be a while before the new tech matures.

Edited by arcamalpha on Sunday 8th July 22:08

[grumpynuts]

It is to do with the new way of testing emissions and economy. With the new WLTP regs, EVERY car has to be tested, so manufacturers who have a myriad of engine and spec options, have to have every model and spec tested. This takes a lot of time and there is a waiting list. Also, many models which will test really badly, will have to be re engineered in order to come out of the tests OK. This proves that a lot of the German cars are actually pretty awful in terms of real world emissions and economy, but have been able to hide behind the old EU way of testing. the new regulations are World regs (hence the W ) and other car makers are ahead of the Europeans in getting their acts together. Whichever way you cut it, it is a disaster for European car manufacturers, and not sure why they left it so long to act.
On a positive note, any cars currently in stock at dealers or in the UK distributors compounds will need to be registered by the 1st September or scrapped as they won't be able to register them. There could be some mind boggling deals going round over the next 6 weeks as dealers battle to offload no compliant stock.

[5to1]

grumpynuts said:

It is to do with the new way of testing emissions and economy. With the new WLTP regs, EVERY car has to be tested, so manufacturers who have a myriad of engine and spec options, have to have every model and spec tested. This takes a lot of time and there is a waiting list. Also, many models which will test really badly, will have to be re engineered in order to come out of the tests OK. This proves that a lot of the German cars are actually pretty awful in terms of real world emissions and economy, but have been able to hide behind the old EU way of testing. the new regulations are World regs (hence the W ) and other car makers are ahead of the Europeans in getting their acts together. Whichever way you cut it, it is a disaster for European car manufacturers, and not sure why they left it so long to act.
On a positive note, any cars currently in stock at dealers or in the UK distributors compounds will need to be registered by the 1st September or scrapped as they won't be able to register them. There could be some mind boggling deals going round over the next 6 weeks as dealers battle to offload no compliant stock.

As I understand it they haven't left it late, but rather they don't have the capacity to get all the testing done. There are a limited number of test rigs and personal trained to do the testing. Therefore, there is a significant lead time to increase testing capacity. So they've been running what testing capacity they have 24/7.

Also whilst I'd love some stonking deals, I fear it wont be as straightforward as that. As I understand it MB/VAG have huge lead times building up for new orders and BMW will soon be drawn into this mess. So in the absence of new stock on the horizon, we may see a lot of these non compliant cars snapped up by the dealer network and pre-regd. Because what will they sell otherwise :/

[Twinfan]

I see Nissan has today admitted issues with their emission testing, so it's not just the Europeans who are facing re-engineering.

It's a massive problem for the car industry.

[Cheib]

jonttt said:

This ie its much more serious than people realise and it affects the whole VAG group. In simple terms they have continued to produce cars within the group that the regulatory bodies are not happy with and they have zero tolerance now. Other parts of the VAG group are sitting on tens of thousands of cars that they cannot sell and if they can;t find a retrofit solution soon they are faced with scraping a lot of brand new cars as that will be cheapest option compared to the fines they face (and potential other actions against the various boards etc....). Porsche have simply had to stop making cars full stop or likely face the same situation.

No doubt they will use it to do other things but make no mistake they have not done this through choice but necessity.

BMW meanwhile are making hey eg we have just flipped company car orders from VAG group to BMW who met our requirements from stock within 14 days. But the rumor mill is BMW will be next.

In simple terms they have all been at it for years re taking the Michael out of the regulatory bodies and now they are paying a price.

Edited by jonttt on Sunday 8th July 12:05

One thing I really don't understand is why Audi/VW are all still producing Diesel cars and Porsche aren't.

[ellroy]

Not just Germans having issues it would seem:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44763905

[aeropilot]

ellroy said:

Not just Germans having issues it would seem:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44763905

A bit misleading though, as article says all cars EXCEPT the GT-R conformed to the testing..........so this is really a GT-R only issue (which is perhaps hardly surprising)

[Beefmeister]

Just to add to the info already here, the reason there’s such a backlog is that the WLTP reg introduction was brought forward by a year from the initial date. With only a few months notice.

So suddenly a year’s worth of testing needed to be done in a much shorter timeframe.

[kbf1981]

So is now a good time to buy a stock 991.2?