Porsche 997 3.8 needs a new engine

[Beaky59]

I may have missed it somewhere but isn't your first port of call to have a full inspection, borescope etc, get a definitive revirw of what is wrong before you chose your next more.

[ooid]

Rossco196x said:

I've had the weekend to think and ideally I would like to get another engine to rebuild with Hartech performing the mods to the block . IMHO the only bit that's difficult about reassembly of an engine is getting the can timing correct . if any one has a short engine that doesn't need a rebuild then let me know the cost but unless its already been rebuilt by Hartech its value is probably limited

I know it sounds horrible, but you might easily wbac it? Those guys never check anything with the engine, just basic cosmetic condition and service history. Would not be suprised, if it is not only you!

You can purchase something newer later on.

[catsey]

Rossco196x said:

thanks cmoose

i did tick the heads option aso. I did look into how much i'd save doing it myself but also hadn't factored in the cost of oil, gaskets etc etc.

next on the list is do i fork out anoth grand and have a set of Wossner ? pistons fitted instead of re using the standard original items. I must admit that i paid far too much for this car which will stand me in over £30k after the engine work. Will wait until i get the results of the bore inspection next Friday before i commit the additional £10k investment in a stolen recovered 997 !

For my penny worth im a Marine Engineer of 50 years in the Industry, I have read Baz posts and also the Hartech work Analysis of the failures of these engines and from what i read, i personally would not hesitate to go the Hartech Route, from what i see they have investigated the failures in a thorughly professional way and their reasoning is sound . Not only that they have not closed the book on it but i reckon they are very close too and are very confident in their research and analysis
Id ask Hartech at the present stage of their development how many failures of Hartech rebuilds of these Engines have occurred and why!
good luck with the rebuild

[gadgit]

I was told categorically from a main dealer that a gen2 engine will not fit in an 997 that was a gen1 car. I requested that they could do that for me on a borescored 997.
The first engine had borescored at 25k, and now after fitting a new off the shelf engine in the car, this was badly scored at 48k.... Disgraceful is the only word.
Porsche were not willing to attempt even trying...
Still what do you expect when you put water in an engine pretending that its oil?
Remember, you need to warm your engine for at least 10 miles before you start hammering it. Driving off with mobil 1 when still cold and hitting it hard will destroy the engine from 25k.
So for all you out there, and its been said before just see what Hartech say about mobil 1.
Don't use it in your engine, its just not up to the job, unless you are very lucky!
Go to the porsche recommended oils and you will see 5w40 in the list that can be used in this country and your warrenty will still be in tact.
Some people are lucky of course.......

Gadgit.

[grumpynuts]

A lot of the issues with bore scoring are down to 2 year service intervals. The instance of scoring is higher in cars post 2003 when Porsche moved from annual oil changes to bi annual. Change you oil every year and you'll help your engine last longer. I agree though, the M96 and M97 engines were not fully developed by Porsche, despite being great engines, it has taken Hartech to finish the job,and engineer them properly. Get your car to them and you will get back an amazing sports car with an amazing engine.

[Rossco196x]

Thanks guys and i agree totally ref Hartech and oil change interval. I'm going to first swop out the £80 of Mobil1 0W40 to see if this stops the tapping sound coming from the right hand bank and then get the car to AW Motor Sport next Friday for a bore inspection. Having looked at the exhaust valve whilst changing the exhaust manifolds after drilling out 7 broken exhaust bolts i discovered that no. 4 pot is sooty compared to the others so i thinks its a case of how much bore scoring there is on No. 4

Will do an update if any one is interested

[Tony 1234]

Rossco196x said:

Will do an update if any one is interested

[The Selfish Gene]

me too!!

Scary is as it - such a wonderful car..............if a big bill comes, it comes............

[hilly10]

Any update on this

[Rossco196x]

Hi Guys (and Gals) The snow earlier in the month meant i had to cancel the boroscope with AW motor sport and also the re booking was cancelled but hopefully i will be able to get the car booked in for an inspection next week.

I'm going to repost a new question as i'm loathed to spend any more money on a Gen 1 engine rebuild

[EGTE]

Hartech also recommend a thicker oil, specifically Millers Nanodrive NT (now +) 1oW-50.

My M96 car starts and runs much more smoothly on that stuff than the Mobil 1. I order from Opie oils every time they have a 15%-off sale.

[thewatchbloke]

Rossco196x said:

Many thanks for the comments, i must admit i'm concerned about how long even the rebuilds from Hartech are lasting are there any high mileage cars still going with 100k +?

Mine had a full Hartech rebuild at 77k, liners, pistons, chains, chain guides, main, big end and thrust bearings, conrod bolts, heads decoked and skimmed, valves lapped, tandem oil pump etc, etc. That was 30k ago and as you'd expect it's still running as sweet as a nut and uses no oil.

[tr7v8]

EGTE said:

Hartech also recommend a thicker oil, specifically Millers Nanodrive NT (now +) 1oW-50.

My M96 car starts and runs much more smoothly on that stuff than the Mobil 1. I order from Opie oils every time they have a 15%-off sale.

I ran the Boxster on 5W/50 (Comma Motorsport) & it definitely ran better & quieter on it. Also did yearly oil changes, although as an early 986S that was the schedule.
The Cayenne runs on the same stuff again with yearly changes..

[Rossco196x]

Thanks for all the advice, the cash finally came available to be spent on the car and hopefully i get it back next week from Hartech.

I did the decent thing and didn't cut corners and had all the bores replaced, new bottom end and chains and a heads rebuilt together with a few coolant pipes, water pump and an IMS upgrade as this was an early smaller bearing IMS. Main cause of failure was bore scoring and piston damage after barely a 1000 miles of ownership. I also replaced the clutch so hopefully i should have a 3.8 that will last another 100k miles but either way it will be treated to oil services every 6k miles or 12 months rather than the rediculous schedule Porsche advise.

[Paynewright]

Do you mind sharing what the cost was? Did Hartech remove / refit the engine?

Ian

[thewatchbloke]

Mine was £13,300 in Dec 2013, the car was driven to Hartech and they did everything.

[Rossco196x]

Hartech submitted a reasonable quote to get the car back on the road but i wanted the job doing once and for all so i opted for a fully comprehansive rebuild to future proof the engine. OPC offered to rebuild justing the same components that have been proven to fail time and time again.

I don't have the final, final bill but Hartech bent over backwards to accomodate my requirements for the rebuild and im satisfied with what their charging as OPC wanted circa £20k inc vat to remove, strip and replace with a short block on an exchange basis and that didn't include any extra's like a new clutch kit etc. If any one wants the copy of the OPC quote then feel free to PM me.

Grant at Hartech will probably tell you that every customers approach and requirements are different and yes there are other companies claiming to offer rebuilds on an exchange basis on ebay for £5k if you take them an engine but i did a fair bit of research and Hartech seem to have a good reputation with the troublesome 997 3.8 unit. Sure i also could have saved some money if i removed the engine but to be honest i don't have the time or a four poster so i did some overtime to offset the additional cost


Whilst the engine was out i did a few extra's like the clutch and a few coolant pipes that will need replacement at somepoint. This wasn't even talked about by OPC and hence its fairly easy to see the £20k rising to £25k and hence beyond the economic value of my stolen recovered 997. Yes i know i've spent far more than i should have but i really like the car so will be keeping it unless i can find a reasonable turbo as a replacement.

[m444ttb]

Getting those extra done is definitely a good idea. My final bill a few years ago was £11,760 which, beyond the usual full six cylinder rebuild, included:
- Exhaust valve guide inserts
- Air - Oil separator
- Brake pipes in the rear
- New exhaust clamps
- Second hand oil cooler
- Rubber propshaft joints
- PSE valves
- Water pump
- Clutch
- Cam sensor

My only regret is the 3.9L conversion wasn't available at the time.

[Rossco196x]

I asked about the 3.9l conversion but was advised that the gain over a standard 3.8 would not be that noticeable compared to converting a 3.6 engined car.

Ulitametly i will probably sell my 964 C2 and get a 997 turbo so if any one knows of a good car coming up for sale mid 2019 please contact me

[Mariosbt]

I own a 2007 3.6 997.1 C2 and am dreading the possibility of engine failure! I wasn’t aware of the 3.9 conversion . Hopefully the car won’t need a rebuild. She’s done 51K and only does about 3K miles a year... oil changed annually ( not Mobil 1 ).. runs nice, no tapping. I read the 3.6 engines were less likely to fail but no definite proof of that. Really sorry for your predicament and I agree that Hartech by all accounts is the best decision... finding that sort of money is another thing. Good luck anyway and let us know your thoughts when she’s sorted pal.