997 Carrera S Engine Rebuild - Opinions

[John Laverick]

Morning all,

I’m after some opinions on a car I’m going to be viewing later today which is advertised with a full engine rebuild after bore scoring.

I’ve been following the 997 Carrera S market for a few months and I’ve looked at a couple of cars but not taken the plunge yet. I’m fully aware of the engine reliability issues (bore score and IMS) and whilst I could afford a £10k rebuild should the worst happen I’d very much like to avoid it!

When I was in the market for a Cayman S a few years ago I ended up buying a Gen 2 as I didn’t feel I could risk it …. a Gen 2 911 is out of budget though I’m afraid.

I’ve been looking for a car with less than 70k miles and with a full Hartech rebuild and less than £30k. Either that or a cheap car at circa. £22kish to allow for a rebuild.

The car I’ve seen is advertised with a ‘full-rebuild’ by Portiacraft but only new liners on cylinders 4/5/6. Here is the list of work:

Remove & strip engine then rebuild with new liners and pistons on cylinders 4/5/6, piston rings on all 6 cylinders and new timing chain set. Oil fed IMS bearing kit. This was done about 2500 miles / 15 months ago under a Portiacraft used car warranty (I believe).

It's also had a borescope within the last fortnight with no issues found.

What are peoples opinions on this? Will it make for a reliable engine going forward?

My concerns are:

At only 2500 miles since the work is the re-build ‘proven’?

Is the partial repair (i.e. not liners in all 6) a concern?

Is the Portiacraft work up to scratch compared to a Hartech build?

Thanks for your help, John

[John Laverick]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thanks for your post, it's much appreciated.

Your opinion echos my concerns exactly arrgggghhh .... everything else about the car seems spot on and the exact spec. I want but it's circa. £28k.

I can ask the question regarding bearing shells & heads but the fact they're not listed tells me they've probably not been done. If I were in Portiacrafts shoes at the time and I had to rebuild a recently sold car under warranty i'd be doing the 'bare-minimum'. It would seem a no-brainer to put new shells in during the build but they would have had no incentive to do so.

Years ago I bought an import Impreza Type R with a fresh rebuild which only lasted 500 miles .... i'm keen to avoid that disaster again!!

Edited by John Laverick on Monday 19th March 08:58

[Mousem40]

Portiacraft lol. What do they know about engine 'rebuilds' ?

[Jefferson Steelflex]

You want a full rebuild to at least include all 6 cylinders - I don't get the halfway house process as it is really not that much more for the proper job, and smacks of doing something on the cheap.

The market does attach a certain provenance to the Hartech rebuild moniker, cmoose and I have discussed before whether this is fair or not, but a warranted, documented rebuild by anyone is (in my opinion) better than nothing.

I hadn't realised that rebuilds were priced into cars with that much of a premium, but if it were my money I'd not be spending £28k on a car with half a rebuild.

[ooid]

You should check portiacraft's warranty section. Not sure about their engine rebuilding skills/experience but they had decent warranty terms as far as I can remember.

[John Laverick]

ooid said:

You should check portiacraft's warranty section. Not sure about their engine rebuilding skills/experience but they had decent warranty terms as far as I can remember.

Thanks but any warranty it had at the time will be expired now as it was done 15/16 months ago.

[John Laverick]

I went to look at the car .... lovely bit of kit.

It needed a few bits and bobs sorting but overall very nice.

One to have a think about but £28k for a partially re-built engine is holding me back!

[AinsleyB]

Why not think about it differently. What sort of price would you pay for a car that hasn't had any rebuild. If that's around £18k then you have a nice budget for a rebuild and perhaps a respray and tidy up ?

[ooid]

John Laverick said:

Thanks but any warranty it had at the time will be expired now as it was done 15/16 months ago.

I assumed you are buying directly from the dealer, apologies than. I think it sounds a bit expensive, I've seen a few more cars with low-miles from non-trade sales.

[BertBert]

What did you find out about the rebuild itself? Who did, what parts, top end only etc?

John Laverick said:

I went to look at the car .... lovely bit of kit.

It needed a few bits and bobs sorting but overall very nice.

One to have a think about but £28k for a partially re-built engine is holding me back!

Edited by BertBert on Tuesday 20th March 22:52

[John Laverick]

BertBert said:

Edited by BertBert on Tuesday 20th March 22:52

Exactly as per the first post .... basic repair of cylinders 4/5/6 with new liners (type unknown) and upgrade IMS. No other work .... I think I've decided to keep looking.

[thegoose]

Portiacraft used to always use Hartech for rebuilds (they wouldn't necessarily go over the top with non-essential stuff for sales cars - but they stand by them properly so must be doing enough that they don't come back, which would cost them more money). Maybe they're doing their own assembly now but could still be sourcing parts from Hartech? I'd call them and ask though rather than speculating.

[river_rat]

thegoose said:

Portiacraft used to always use Hartech for rebuilds (they wouldn't necessarily go over the top with non-essential stuff for sales cars - but they stand by them properly so must be doing enough that they don't come back, which would cost them more money). Maybe they're doing their own assembly now but could still be sourcing parts from Hartech? I'd call them and ask though rather than speculating.

+1 I chatted to them about this a few years back now, and they were sending engines to Hartech then for rebuilds.

Their adverts also seem to specifically mention Hartech in them aswell?

Edited by river_rat on Wednesday 21st March 14:02

[Pearcy]

Sounds like a red C2s I looked at around a year ago as a private sale in London. I looked into it in some detail, contacted Portiacraft etc. - They used Westwood cast iron liners on that bank and as has been suggested due to it being a warrantee repair rather than a rebuild only the damaged parts were replaced, so no bottom end bearings etc. which did put me off.

Also, the oil fed IMS bearing used is a serviceable item, not a 'fit and forget' item - I seem to recall every 3 or 5 years. At the expense incurred it seemed strange to not just fit the latest Porsche bearing.

[John Laverick]

Pearcy said:

Sounds like a red C2s I looked at around a year ago as a private sale in London. I looked into it in some detail, contacted Portiacraft etc. - They used Westwood cast iron liners on that bank and as has been suggested due to it being a warrantee repair rather than a rebuild only the damaged parts were replaced, so no bottom end bearings etc. which did put me off.

Also, the oil fed IMS bearing used is a serviceable item, not a 'fit and forget' item - I seem to recall every 3 or 5 years. At the expense incurred it seemed strange to not just fit the latest Porsche bearing.

That's the one!

[Pearcy]

John Laverick said:

That's the one!

It had Carrera Sport alloys - really clean cosmetically. I believe it was up for around £26.5k this time last year and sold for around 25. For me it simply had too many questions around the 'repair', and other examples with Hartech rebuilds were available for the same or less.

As has been said on the thread, either buy a cheaper one and keep a good £10k in the kitty in case it needs a rebuild and then get it done properly by the likes of Hartech or be patient, pay more and seek out an example that has already had the work done.

With either, then you of course still need to do your homework and the necessary checks. With a rebuilt one ensure the original Hartech itemised invoice is available, it will list any advised work versus actual work done. Is it all 6 liners or just bank 2 etc? IMS/RMS, clutch etc? -Not everyone carries out 'all' recommended work, no doubt for cost reasons. Also it may be some time since the rebuild so how the car has been driven and maintained since needs to be understood. Get a proper PPI carried out by a specialist and then you can make an informed decision.

[ronnie middlemis]

It’s a sore topic to talk about because no one wants to part with 10k . No one has mentioned how many miles a 997 engine is good for , regardless about the bore score or ims. 100k is probably about as good as your going to get , your big end bearings will be on there way out by then , and if you don’t address this problem the whole engine might be unrebuildable , I’ve seen rods smash through engine casings , you will then have to buy a second hand engine just to have it rebuilt. Mine has done 125k I have bore score on 4,5,6 bank and I know it needs a rebuild sooty lhs tail pipe and very tapperty, drinks oil , still not sure about a 3.9 or standard 3.6 but at some stage I must face reality or walk away from the 911 scene and buy a mass produced euro box