Questions on taking on a GT4 using PCP.
Discussion
Alright all. This is something I’ve wanted to ask, but daren’t. I’ve plucked up the courage to ask, so please go easy on me 
I was looking around an OPC recently and looking at the details in the window on a 2016 GT4. I think the details were as follows
Deposit - £15k
Car price - £80k
Balloon - £43k (I think it was)
Monthly - £1000
Term - 36 months
Apr- 7.8
Annual miles- 10000
It sparked my curiosity. I broadly understand how PCP works.
1/ If you actually drove a GT4 for 10000 miles per year, how much would that knacker the value after the 36 months? Just looking at the balloon payment I can’t invisage it would be worth less than £43k. It would be 5 years old with 36000 miles. I appreciate it wouldn’t remain it’s lofty worth they currently sit at!
2/ Miles notwithstanding, do you see GT4 values remaining solid or shallow drop? If after 3 years would it be unreasonable to expect the residual to be north of 55k?
3/ with that in mind could you hand the car back after 3 years and use the equity towards another, newer GT4 to lower the monthlies? Could you then repeat the process again, each time putting more and more into the next? What is the limit on how much you can put towards pcp?
4/ I’m aware they run on expensive cup tyres. The car comes with extended warranty for 2 years. I’m not familiar with the extended warranty. Are there any “gotchas” on it for something like a GT4, say bushings that wear easily that aren’t covered etc.
5/ With PCP are things like stone chips classed as wear and tear? A front end blow over could badly eat into your residual I imagine.
6/ I shamelessly would want to use it as a prime car (some of you are fainting now, I can hear the thumps). I fly to work so it would only be for days off. My current Porsche is my only car. I can live with noise and hard suspension. Comfort doesn’t bother me. I just love to use them, all the time. I’m not a for special days person
7/ I understand GT cars lack decent underseal protection. Is that right? Would any surface corrosion underneath from driving in the wet be deducted on pcp?
Thanks for your tolerance. I’m not a high end P car owner as you can rightly tell ha. And I appreciate my questions might smack of naivety. Thanks.
I was looking around an OPC recently and looking at the details in the window on a 2016 GT4. I think the details were as follows
Deposit - £15k
Car price - £80k
Balloon - £43k (I think it was)
Monthly - £1000
Term - 36 months
Apr- 7.8
Annual miles- 10000
It sparked my curiosity. I broadly understand how PCP works.
1/ If you actually drove a GT4 for 10000 miles per year, how much would that knacker the value after the 36 months? Just looking at the balloon payment I can’t invisage it would be worth less than £43k. It would be 5 years old with 36000 miles. I appreciate it wouldn’t remain it’s lofty worth they currently sit at!
2/ Miles notwithstanding, do you see GT4 values remaining solid or shallow drop? If after 3 years would it be unreasonable to expect the residual to be north of 55k?
3/ with that in mind could you hand the car back after 3 years and use the equity towards another, newer GT4 to lower the monthlies? Could you then repeat the process again, each time putting more and more into the next? What is the limit on how much you can put towards pcp?
4/ I’m aware they run on expensive cup tyres. The car comes with extended warranty for 2 years. I’m not familiar with the extended warranty. Are there any “gotchas” on it for something like a GT4, say bushings that wear easily that aren’t covered etc.
5/ With PCP are things like stone chips classed as wear and tear? A front end blow over could badly eat into your residual I imagine.
6/ I shamelessly would want to use it as a prime car (some of you are fainting now, I can hear the thumps). I fly to work so it would only be for days off. My current Porsche is my only car. I can live with noise and hard suspension. Comfort doesn’t bother me. I just love to use them, all the time. I’m not a for special days person
7/ I understand GT cars lack decent underseal protection. Is that right? Would any surface corrosion underneath from driving in the wet be deducted on pcp?
Thanks for your tolerance. I’m not a high end P car owner as you can rightly tell ha. And I appreciate my questions might smack of naivety. Thanks.
You have to factor into the numbers to include depreciation on the car & 30k miles on a car of this nature will undoubtedly hit the value quite hard, plus you've dealer profit and their VAT that you'll never see back. You can't use the current base rate as a borrowing figure comparison as you couldn't borrow at that level on car finance, though I'd suggest there's room in their figures to negotiate a trimming of their finance rates & if not try another dealer OP. I'd suggest you'd lose a large chunk of your initial deposit come the time to change it.
OP, have you considered an equivalent age/mileage Cayman GTS as an alternative? - you'd be starting with a circa £25k lower purchase price and hence the level of deposit you've suggested should (you'd hope) give a better finance cost....I appreciate its not a GT4, though it might be worth a straight comparison as its certainly not 70% of the enjoyment level of a GT4 IMO in £ for £ terms.
PS, the GT4 tyres don't like very cold weather apparently which would be a factor to consider if you lived in the north of the country and drove it all year round.
OP, have you considered an equivalent age/mileage Cayman GTS as an alternative? - you'd be starting with a circa £25k lower purchase price and hence the level of deposit you've suggested should (you'd hope) give a better finance cost....I appreciate its not a GT4, though it might be worth a straight comparison as its certainly not 70% of the enjoyment level of a GT4 IMO in £ for £ terms.
PS, the GT4 tyres don't like very cold weather apparently which would be a factor to consider if you lived in the north of the country and drove it all year round.
Thanks chaps. I appreciate the replies. I was surpised at the 10k pa mileage on the information sheet. I thought OPCs didn’t like people driving these things ha. In all honesty the way I use my current P car I’d not put on 10k pa, but still likely do 7000.
That is a very good point re tyres. So you’d have to factor in a set of winters. And I’d need somewhere to store the summers.
Thanks for suggestion re the GTS. You know I have actually that’s a good suggestion. I’m still not discounting the GTS. The GT4 just bowled me over when I sat in one at an open day, that’s without driving it.
I presumed the depreciation would have been shallower on the GT4 than the GTS although whether that amounts to losing more in numbers I’ve no idea. I could see handing it back with miles on would hit hard. Given they’re quite young cars I can’t find any examples to see how hard. Anyway, not that bothers me in principle - I like driving them. I was thinking as long as the equity is enough at the end that I have the same £14k to put into another. But I can see like you say, most likely not.
That is a very good point re tyres. So you’d have to factor in a set of winters. And I’d need somewhere to store the summers.
Thanks for suggestion re the GTS. You know I have actually that’s a good suggestion. I’m still not discounting the GTS. The GT4 just bowled me over when I sat in one at an open day, that’s without driving it.
I presumed the depreciation would have been shallower on the GT4 than the GTS although whether that amounts to losing more in numbers I’ve no idea. I could see handing it back with miles on would hit hard. Given they’re quite young cars I can’t find any examples to see how hard. Anyway, not that bothers me in principle - I like driving them
. I was thinking as long as the equity is enough at the end that I have the same £14k to put into another. But I can see like you say, most likely not. Buggyjam said:
Alright all. This is something I’ve wanted to ask, but daren’t. I’ve plucked up the courage to ask, so please go easy on me
I was looking around an OPC recently and looking at the details in the window on a 2016 GT4. I think the details were as follows
Deposit - £15k
Car price - £80k
Balloon - £43k (I think it was)
Monthly - £1000
Term - 36 months
Apr- 7.8
Annual miles- 10000
It sparked my curiosity. I broadly understand how PCP works.
1/ If you actually drove a GT4 for 10000 miles per year, how much would that knacker the value after the 36 months? Just looking at the balloon payment I can’t invisage it would be worth less than £43k. It would be 5 years old with 36000 miles. I appreciate it wouldn’t remain it’s lofty worth they currently sit at!
2/ Miles notwithstanding, do you see GT4 values remaining solid or shallow drop? If after 3 years would it be unreasonable to expect the residual to be north of 55k?
3/ with that in mind could you hand the car back after 3 years and use the equity towards another, newer GT4 to lower the monthlies? Could you then repeat the process again, each time putting more and more into the next? What is the limit on how much you can put towards pcp?
4/ I’m aware they run on expensive cup tyres. The car comes with extended warranty for 2 years. I’m not familiar with the extended warranty. Are there any “gotchas” on it for something like a GT4, say bushings that wear easily that aren’t covered etc.
5/ With PCP are things like stone chips classed as wear and tear? A front end blow over could badly eat into your residual I imagine.
6/ I shamelessly would want to use it as a prime car (some of you are fainting now, I can hear the thumps). I fly to work so it would only be for days off. My current Porsche is my only car. I can live with noise and hard suspension. Comfort doesn’t bother me. I just love to use them, all the time. I’m not a for special days person
7/ I understand GT cars lack decent underseal protection. Is that right? Would any surface corrosion underneath from driving in the wet be deducted on pcp?
Thanks for your tolerance. I’m not a high end P car owner as you can rightly tell ha. And I appreciate my questions might smack of naivety. Thanks.
Firstly , are you looking to keep the car beyond 36 months ? It will make a big difference. You can get cheaper APR`s if you shop elsewhere and a higher deposit will lessen the monthly payment. I was looking around an OPC recently and looking at the details in the window on a 2016 GT4. I think the details were as follows
Deposit - £15k
Car price - £80k
Balloon - £43k (I think it was)
Monthly - £1000
Term - 36 months
Apr- 7.8
Annual miles- 10000
It sparked my curiosity. I broadly understand how PCP works.
1/ If you actually drove a GT4 for 10000 miles per year, how much would that knacker the value after the 36 months? Just looking at the balloon payment I can’t invisage it would be worth less than £43k. It would be 5 years old with 36000 miles. I appreciate it wouldn’t remain it’s lofty worth they currently sit at!
2/ Miles notwithstanding, do you see GT4 values remaining solid or shallow drop? If after 3 years would it be unreasonable to expect the residual to be north of 55k?
3/ with that in mind could you hand the car back after 3 years and use the equity towards another, newer GT4 to lower the monthlies? Could you then repeat the process again, each time putting more and more into the next? What is the limit on how much you can put towards pcp?
4/ I’m aware they run on expensive cup tyres. The car comes with extended warranty for 2 years. I’m not familiar with the extended warranty. Are there any “gotchas” on it for something like a GT4, say bushings that wear easily that aren’t covered etc.
5/ With PCP are things like stone chips classed as wear and tear? A front end blow over could badly eat into your residual I imagine.
6/ I shamelessly would want to use it as a prime car (some of you are fainting now, I can hear the thumps). I fly to work so it would only be for days off. My current Porsche is my only car. I can live with noise and hard suspension. Comfort doesn’t bother me. I just love to use them, all the time. I’m not a for special days person
7/ I understand GT cars lack decent underseal protection. Is that right? Would any surface corrosion underneath from driving in the wet be deducted on pcp?
Thanks for your tolerance. I’m not a high end P car owner as you can rightly tell ha. And I appreciate my questions might smack of naivety. Thanks.
1 & 2. If you plan to keep the car mileage is totally irrelevant. What you have to imagine is will the car be worth more or less than the final balloon payment considering what you want to do with the car. Even if you do realistic mileage I cannot see a halo car like this dropping into the £40k`s price band in 3 years.
3. Different companies have different rules about how much you can deposit on a PCP. However it makes zero difference because if they will not let you put the amount down initially , you just pay the max deposit allowable and then overpay the rest after the first month effectively letting you put down what ever deposit you want.
4. The bumper to bumper Porsche warranty is probably the best out there. They are not fussy if you track the car or put any stipulations on how the car is to be used. Normal wear and tear items wont be covered but that should not be a surprise.
5. Not really. If you hand the car back they will go over it with a fine tooth comb and charge you overs to correct the defect. get the front wrapped with a PPF to protect against stone chips or save for a respray.
6 & 7 . No idea !
For example if you dropped £25k as a deposit on the same deal , your monthlies would be nearer £650
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When you say better deal, lower payments maybe but more loss of money over all.I guess most people who have pcp are happy to pay say £350 a month and hand the car back. But it’s a s
t way to buy a car imo and I would not let my son get tied up in the pits of finance esp pcp rip offs.Porsche911R said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When you say better deal, lower payments maybe but more loss of money over all.I guess most people who have pcp are happy to pay say £350 a month and hand the car back. But it’s a s
t way to buy a car imo and I would not let my son get tied up in the pits of finance esp pcp rip offs.Re-sale values of GT4s are difficult to predict. Who knows what the value will be in three years time? Less than today for sure but the depreciation curve may not be so steep. However, you are paying over the odds to join the GT4 club, so you need to factor that in as well.
I fitted a winter wheel and tyre set to my GT4 - cost was around £3,600 and worth every penny this winter. My OPC stored the summer set for free and refitted the summer set a couple of weeks ago, also for free.
Old fashioned type here but PCP'd once and got burnt, even going in I thought it a con and it is - keep your eyes open it really is not the ideal way to buy a car. It is however the ideal way to tie you into a lifetime of rental if you wish to change every 3 years or face paying what is essentially the depreciation plus a chunk more plus the balloon at the end.
PCP was invented in a way to generate a constant revenue stream and bailed the motor industry out, its also why we have too many cars on the road and remember, the house always wins/collects.
PCP was invented in a way to generate a constant revenue stream and bailed the motor industry out, its also why we have too many cars on the road and remember, the house always wins/collects.
George Smiley said:
Old fashioned type here but PCP'd once and got burnt, even going in I thought it a con and it is - keep your eyes open it really is not the ideal way to buy a car. It is however the ideal way to tie you into a lifetime of rental if you wish to change every 3 years or face paying what is essentially the depreciation plus a chunk more plus the balloon at the end.
PCP was invented in a way to generate a constant revenue stream and bailed the motor industry out, its also why we have too many cars on the road and remember, the house always wins/collects.
While overall you are correct it generally costs more to finance than cash buy there are good deals out there and a lot of people lease now and just hand the car back at the end of the term and start again. Generally you have to accept a base car without options as options are usually costed totally over the lease period. There are good well equipped base cars BMW for example but you have to shop around and be prepared to take whatever the deal is at the time. As an example a couple of weeks ago I was offered an Abarth 124 convertible list approx £30k, a stock car for £2k down and £120 per month on a 2 year term. The depreciation would be more than that so why spend your own money. There will always be a deal to be had if you are prepared to wait and look hard enough.PCP was invented in a way to generate a constant revenue stream and bailed the motor industry out, its also why we have too many cars on the road and remember, the house always wins/collects.
Taffy66 said:
Basically you're paying £14k interest to borrow £65k over three years..Seems expensive to me compared to base rate at 0.5%.
Hi Taffy, would that be only the case if you handed the car back and it was worth the same or less than the balloon? Say some simplified figures...Car cost £80,000
Balloon £40000
Actual Final value after 3 years £40000
Payments £36000 ( over 3 years)
Deposit at the beginning £14000
So I can see if you hand it back and it’s worth the same as the balloon there’s nothing to put down for a newer car. So on top of the monthlies you’ve lost the £14k. But if the car was still worth more than the balloon you’d have some to put to the next car, so not all of the £14k is lost?
I’m trying to get my head around it all still
Buggyjam said:
Thanks for suggestion re the GTS. You know I have actually that’s a good suggestion. I’m still not discounting the GTS. The GT4 just bowled me over when I sat in one at an open day, that’s without driving it.
If it bowled you over by just sitting in it, I think it will be a done deal that you want one if you have a drive in it. 
Then it's up to you how you buy it IMO. As rightly said above it will cost you £14K in interest doing it by PCP. I would be very surprised if you did not get the balloon and deposit value back in 3 years time (£58K). So hopefully the cost of ownership to you will only be £14K + maintenance + a further year warranty but always be prepared for the market to go up and down.
Far Cough said:
Firstly , are you looking to keep the car beyond 36 months ? It will make a big difference. You can get cheaper APR`s if you shop elsewhere and a higher deposit will lessen the monthly payment.
Hi Far cough, thanks for taking the time to help with all the questions. Useful info. I’m not sure about whether I’d want to keep it or not. I could see I’d be tempted to see how bad it depreciates over the course of the 3 years. I accept it’s going to go down a good chunk with use. It is a car. Still the value at the end means nothing if I keep it, as I’d still have paid £90 odd thousand.
Other factor is a 5 year old Gt4 will a few years later start need increasing bits and bobs to keep it ship shape.
I can see it’s a really expensive way to buy if you pay the balloon off.
Mm. I’ve had some really good points on pcp raised on here. Food for thought.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
way of the world !!! the world is what YOU make of it .You think I am Porsche super owner ! lol I bought my 1st new Porsche age 45 !!!! and lost money on it. (GT4)
your lad wants a new car at 20 years old he will pay through the nose for it and be left with nothing !!!
At 20 I was in a £6k 5 year old Celica GT.
Porsche911R said:
.
You think I am Porsche super owner ! lol I bought my 1st new Porsche age 45 !!!! and lost money on it. (GT4)
Hi You think I am Porsche super owner ! lol I bought my 1st new Porsche age 45 !!!! and lost money on it. (GT4)
See you owned a Gt4. At what point did you lose money on it? Did you buy new and sell after a few years or buy at the peak? Absolutely please tell me to bog off and mind my own business. Just curious as researching into these cars I kind of got the impression after they were released. they all went up a in price on the nearly new/ slightly used market, peaked and have dropped slightly but still seem more expensive than when new. It seems a fair lot are held on opc stock looking around online. My analysis is most likely totally wrong and open to be put straight
Anything pertinent to gt4 ownership you found yourself? Any surprises or gotchas?
Edited by Buggyjam on Monday 23 April 18:17
Buggyjam said:
Hi
See you owned a Gt4. At what point did you lose money on it? Did you buy new and sell after a few years or buy at the peak? Absolutely please tell me to bog off and mind my own business. Just curious as researching into these cars I kind of got the impression after they were released. they all went up a in price on the nearly new/ slightly used market, peaked and have dropped slightly but still seem more expensive than when new. It seems a fair lot are held on opc stock looking around online. My analysis is most likely totally wrong and open to be put straight
Anything pertinent to gt4 ownership you found yourself? Any surprises or gotchas?
I Paid list in 2015 for it so had it from new, but part ex'ed it at below list.See you owned a Gt4. At what point did you lose money on it? Did you buy new and sell after a few years or buy at the peak? Absolutely please tell me to bog off and mind my own business. Just curious as researching into these cars I kind of got the impression after they were released. they all went up a in price on the nearly new/ slightly used market, peaked and have dropped slightly but still seem more expensive than when new. It seems a fair lot are held on opc stock looking around online. My analysis is most likely totally wrong and open to be put straight
Anything pertinent to gt4 ownership you found yourself? Any surprises or gotchas?
Edited by Buggyjam on Monday 23 April 18:17
yes they went up in price , I was offered £25k over for mine when new as it was one of the 1st batch in the UK.
Great value cars which had a nice market due to no manual GT3's at the time.
unless you sell private, the swing from dealers is quite big.
Miles = smiles for the driver but miles = less value when selling, a 5k mile car is classed as high miles after 2 years !!!! it's all madness.
Porsche911R said:
Miles = smiles for the driver but miles = less value when selling, a 5k mile car is classed as high miles after 2 years !!!! it's all madness.
I can see the cost of some of them at 2 years old sitting on OPC stock they must be laughing as they’ve sold them once when new for less money. It’s like a rinse and repeat haI’d be going (if I do) into it to just use it and that’ll tank the value. If (big if) I did use pcp and use it properly I’ve also got to factor in things like obvious paint damage from chips. That’ll be a few grand for film or respray too. Things like that. I read unless you track them or bang the discs, the pccbs last a long time.
I’ve heard stories (true or not I don’t know) of opcs basically telling people not to use them much. If that’s the case I was surprised to see on that pcp propostion an annual of 10,000miles. Given the cars invariably end up back on the stock sheet for a second go with someone else, I would have thought they’d want to slap a lower limit on?
PCP = buying what you can't afford. Set your sights a bit lower and buy what you can afford.
Motor dealers don't sell cars, they sell credit. I really wanted a GT3 and my OPC uttered that well used phrase: I can get you into it. What he really meant was: I can get you into debt, so I bought a GT4 instead. Lovely car, no debt.
Best advice I was given, by someone with more money than I will ever see, was don't borrow high against a depreciating asset. Remember, getting into debt is easy, getting out of debt is something else.
Motor dealers don't sell cars, they sell credit. I really wanted a GT3 and my OPC uttered that well used phrase: I can get you into it. What he really meant was: I can get you into debt, so I bought a GT4 instead. Lovely car, no debt.
Best advice I was given, by someone with more money than I will ever see, was don't borrow high against a depreciating asset. Remember, getting into debt is easy, getting out of debt is something else.
Asking questions on here or any other forum about pcp is just asking for trouble...
Some people will tell you if you can’t afford to buy it outright you can’t afford to buy it full stop... bullsh*t
If you can afford the monthlies then you can afford it, a pcp is just a lease. Whether or not that’s a financially astute decision is up for debate, but so is throwing down a chunk of change on a depreciating asset.
If you are going to PCP don’t use dealer finance, there are much lower APR deals out there. The larger the deposit the better, yes you are effectively paying for the lease up front, but the total interest will drop significantly.
Just as an example, with current balloons on offer, you could get into an £80k car with a £30k deposit for just £300 a month and roughly £7k total interest over the term.
Some people will tell you if you can’t afford to buy it outright you can’t afford to buy it full stop... bullsh*t
If you can afford the monthlies then you can afford it, a pcp is just a lease. Whether or not that’s a financially astute decision is up for debate, but so is throwing down a chunk of change on a depreciating asset.
If you are going to PCP don’t use dealer finance, there are much lower APR deals out there. The larger the deposit the better, yes you are effectively paying for the lease up front, but the total interest will drop significantly.
Just as an example, with current balloons on offer, you could get into an £80k car with a £30k deposit for just £300 a month and roughly £7k total interest over the term.
Edited by P-MJH on Monday 23 April 22:01
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