Scam avoidance advice - selling to a Channel Islands buyer..

[TheMorgster]

Hi, I am selling my car privately and have had interest from a guy located in the Channel Islands, he's so interested he's coming over to see it on the weekend. Key facts:
1. The car is advertised for ~£17k
2. The guy called from a channel islands number, and has texted me from that same number. (I am aware that this can be faked etc)
3. The guy sounded genuine enough. (but don't they all...)
4. I am a genuine seller, own the car outright & there is nothing wrong with it.
In the past, when I have sold cars privately (for a significant amount), I go to their bank with them, get them to withdraw the money, walk across to my bank and pay it in. The theory being that cash transactions can't be reversed. This however rings alarm bells for the buyer, and the bank, who then tell the police - not that I'm too bothered, as its not illegal. The alternative is to have them pay by cheque, then wait the 7 days for it to fully clear (also irreversible). My question is, either way (cash or cheque), where (if anywhere) is the scam?

I like to believe the best of people, but I also like to keep hold of my hard earned cash!

[Lee540]

Don't need to take a lump of cash from one bank to another, you can do a online cash transfer.

Scams often come in the form of people tampering with the car, for example, squirting oil in the exhaust or coolant bottle, disconnecting a coil pack.. claiming the car is broken and then offering you half of the money.

[BMWBen]

All you need to do is look up the "faster payments" limit for the sellers bank, and check that they can do an instant transfer of the balance.

If they can, you can take a bank transfer and give them the car when it arrives 5 minutes later.

[TheMorgster]

Lee540 said:

Don't need to take a lump of cash from one bank to another, you can do a online cash transfer.

Scams often come in the form of people tampering with the car, for example, squirting oil in the exhaust or coolant bottle, disconnecting a coil pack.. claiming the car is broken and then offering you half of the money.

The problem with bank transfers is that, if the source of the funds are suspect (i.e. identity theft / ill gotten gains etc), the transaction can be traced & reversed, and I am left with no car & no cash. Cash transactions are much harder to trace and reverse (still possible through serial numbers - bank-to-bank... if you pay it in), which is why crim's like cash (not suggesting that I am a crim'!).

Re: tampering with my car - I'll watch 'em like a hawk!

Cheers for the advice, so there is no specific, export-to-Channel-Islands scam I need to be aware of then?

[E36GUY]

TheMorgster said:

I like to believe the best of people, but I also like to keep hold of my hard earned cash!

I wouldn't discount them unless they start cocking about and wasting time. A buddy of mine was selling a nice yellow Integrale Evo 2 and got a call from a fellow in Ireland who decided to fly over the next day to view but upon hearing that there was another interested party coming to view before he could make it there decided to buy it unseen. Buddy and Irishman got to talking and buddy mentioned he was also selling a rare Lotus Turbo Esprit. Irishman decided he'd have that too and within 24hrs, half the money had been wired, followed a couple of days later by the balance then a couple of days after that, a low loader and away they went.

Obvioulsy there are horror stories and my mate was extrememly fortunate but it does happen!

[spookly]

BMWBen said:

All you need to do is look up the "faster payments" limit for the sellers bank, and check that they can do an instant transfer of the balance.

If they can, you can take a bank transfer and give them the car when it arrives 5 minutes later.

Lol. 5 minutes. I've used 'faster payments' for buying and selling cars a few times. When buying it took a number of phone calls to my bank to get the payment past the fraud team - in total took almost an hour. When selling, it took the other guys bank about 3 1/2 hours to get the money into my account despite multiple calls to his bank and mine.

[Denis O]

I didn't use "faster payments" when I bought SWMBO's FFRR. Just a plain old transfer on my tablet. The money was in the sellers account, instantly.

That's pretty fast.

[Gavia]

E36GUY said:

I wouldn't discount them unless they start cocking about and wasting time. A buddy of mine was selling a nice yellow Integrale Evo 2 and got a call from a fellow in Ireland who decided to fly over the next day to view but upon hearing that there was another interested party coming to view before he could make it there decided to buy it unseen. Buddy and Irishman got to talking and buddy mentioned he was also selling a rare Lotus Turbo Esprit. Irishman decided he'd have that too and within 24hrs, half the money had been wired, followed a couple of days later by the balance then a couple of days after that, a low loader and away they went.

Obvioulsy there are horror stories and my mate was extrememly fortunate but it does happen!

Why “extremely fortunate”? You make it sound like most car sales are scammers and you have have exceptional luck to get a genuine sale.

[johnao]

TheMorgster said:

Hi, I am selling my car privately and have had interest from a guy located in the Channel Islands, he's so interested he's coming over to see it on the weekend. Key facts:
1. The car is advertised for ~£17k
2. The guy called from a channel islands number, and has texted me from that same number. (I am aware that this can be faked etc)
3. The guy sounded genuine enough. (but don't they all...)
...

This may be perfectly legitimate; let's hope it is and you sell the car for a good price.

But, beware of receiving a cheque for more than the asking price! The fraudster gives you a cheque for (say) £17,750 and asks you to pay the UK based "shipping agent" £750 out of the £17,750. The cheque bounces/is fraudulent and you're £750 worse off. You do get to keep the car though!

[TheMorgster]

I don’t mind negotiating on price, but any sort of nonsense and I walk away (or rather they do).

I’m not desperate to sell, I just don’t drive it much anymore and its an expensive drive ornament! I’m not planning to replace it with anything. If nobody genuine comes along & offers my bottom line, then I’ll keep it and the wife can drive it.

[BrettMRC]

I wouldn't be overly concerned - UK cars tend to be sought after because we have MOTs and tend to routinely make an effort to keep it roadworthy!

[Pdelamare]

Channel Islanders pop over to the mainland all the time to buy cars, bikes, furniture, anything really. Don’t be stressed.

[anonymous-user]

After a bank transfer the money cannot be reversed, even if it is from I'll gotten gains, at least that's what Halifax told me.

A French guy sent me £14k for a car without seeing it. Then asked for it back a anfew days later when he realised he could not import it. I was worried the initial deposit might be reversed after I'd refunded it, thereby scamming me. Halifax said categorically that once it showed cleared in my account (balance updated) it was unreverseable.

I've sold many cars with direct transfers. Get the buyer to send you a small amount as a test transaction. This shows you both that you have speedy banking in place and it works, plus I think it reduces the chance of the subsequent big transaction flagging as fraud. Do the main transfer on a day when both banks man their helpdesks. Halifax is 24\7 now.

[Blanchimont]

I sold my Megane 250 for 10,400 a few months back, privately.

Bloke turned up, transferred 10k in 1 transaction, and £400 in another (due to the 10k transfer limit on his acc). Signed paperwork and away we went.

[anonymous-user]

Faster payments is the answer. But do it in a series of payments under 10k and it seems to get through ok.

Go over that and all hell breaks loose with the fraud check. Sold my car and the payment (30k) kept getting blocked.

After an hour on the phone to the bank I suggested to the buyer to try 3 lots of 10k and they all went through immediately.

[anonymous-user]

It really does vary by bank. My recent transactions - Me-Halifax, other bank - varied.

Car sale: £32k - took an hour extra - fraud checks.
Car sale £22k - instant
Car Purchase £8.5k instant
Car sale £10k instant
Car purchase £12.5k instant
Car sale £14.5k instant
Car purchase £20,500 instant.

None of them done in chunks. All in one payment. Only the very first one had a delay. All private transactions

[superlightr]

for the last 4 cars ive used https://www.tootle.co.uk/ to sell to a dealer. Instant bank transfer day before or at the time. no issue.

[PurpleTurtle]

My brother lives in Jersey, buys and sells cars mainly locally, but has done some mainland purchases, and also sold his classic 911 to a guy from Madrid who was happy to send him €30k without ever having met, then fly in a week later. They've remained internet buddies so he can see how his car is getting on - all done with a bit of trust. I appreciate that scamming does go on, but most people are still genuine.

As said above, faster payments is generallly a good system.

Jersey has a lot of low mileage cars for sale (the 911 jokingly referred to as 'the Jersey Capri'!) so one assumes your car is one that cannot be sourced locally for whatever reason? Is it sufficiently special that it cannot be sourced for less money in the CI's? Bearing in mind the buyer will be having to factor a few hundred quid in for a flight/ferry to get to the UK, and a ferry to get it back there.

There is very little car crime in the CI's. Years ago I took a family owned Sierra XR4i over for my brother to use, but got stopped at Weymouth by Customs - turns out my Dad had bought it off his mate but forgotten to transfer the V5 to his name. As the V5 name didn't tally with my ferry booking name on my outbound trip I got a thorough questioning but was able to tell them the name and address of the person on the V5 so they let it ride. It was good to see such things being checked, they had already run it va the PNC to see if stolen etc.

At the time my bro' lived in an apartment block where the neighbour had a 5yo Golf convertible. The owner used to regualrly leave the top down and keys in the ignition most of the time yet it was never stolen. He took the view that it was difficult to get cars off the Island, and most people already had a decent car, that it wasn't worth bothering carrying his keys about. Madness to someone from the mainland, but still it never got robbed!

Edited by PurpleTurtle on Tuesday 24th April 11:49

Edited by PurpleTurtle on Tuesday 24th April 11:50

[TooMany2cvs]

Denis O said:

I didn't use "faster payments" when I bought SWMBO's FFRR. Just a plain old transfer on my tablet. The money was in the sellers account, instantly.

That's pretty fast.

That is "faster payments". It replaced the old BACS, which took a couple of days between banks, a couple of years ago.

http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/how-faster-paymen...

[darreni]

I live in Guernsey & due to limited local choice, I've bought most of my cars from the mainland, as have a lot of friends.

I usually agree a deal over the phone, subject to any pre purchase inspection, they fly over & collect.