Paul Stephens Le Mans Classic Clubsport

Paul Stephens Le Mans Classic Clubsport

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v8ksn

Original Poster:

4,711 posts

184 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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n12maser

580 posts

92 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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silly price for that

Cheib

23,248 posts

175 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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I saw that car last night parked on Pall Mall at what must have been the launch event. Didn't look like a £250k car to me.

Upnorthgt3

605 posts

143 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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'fools and their money' or 'emperor's new clothes' - take your pick........................

PGNSagaris

2,934 posts

166 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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Agreed. Mental to pay that for this

MDL111

6,940 posts

177 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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Posted the question in the GG topic, but maybe better Herr - why are they not basing these on a T instead of a 3.2, then it would at least be period correct chassis etc?

fergus

6,430 posts

275 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
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Upnorthgt3 said:
'fools and their money' or 'emperor's new clothes' - take your pick........................
"Emperor's new clothes" please

Upnorthgt3

605 posts

143 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
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I think you're right..........................it would be entirely appropriate to point out to anyone buying one of these at the quoted price that you have indeed lost the plot...........................

You can buy a nice 911s for that money, or a L/T and a GT4

sundayjumper

529 posts

282 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
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It's an old Porsche with a ducktail - it's automatically worth that asking price, and will only go up in value.




(apparently, in this bizarre world we seem to live in now)


Upnorthgt3

605 posts

143 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
quotequote all
its actually 'not that old a Porsche with a 'stuck on' duck tail'...........................exactly what I was saying - emperors new clothes - don't be sucked in by this tosh, these cars are being 'created' to exploit the market (and fair play to the company involved if they pull that off).

They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.

aeropilot

34,589 posts

227 months

Friday 6th July 2018
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Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......

The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.

They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.


Cheib

23,248 posts

175 months

Friday 6th July 2018
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......

The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.

They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
Nobody commissions a "hot rotted" or "restomod" etc in their right mind thinking they'll come out on top if they sell the car.....they might because the car market has gone up in general but such projects are ones that will generally cost you money. This is where Singer is different because they've created genuine brand value which is much the same with Eagle E-Types and also I suppose possibly with Alfaholics and their GTA-R cars.

Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.

aeropilot

34,589 posts

227 months

Friday 6th July 2018
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Nobody commissions a "hot rotted" or "restomod" etc in their right mind thinking they'll come out on top if they sell the car.....they might because the car market has gone up in general but such projects are ones that will generally cost you money. This is where Singer is different because they've created genuine brand value which is much the same with Eagle E-Types and also I suppose possibly with Alfaholics and their GTA-R cars.

Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
Autofarm and Tuthill's have both been doing it for years.....as a bespoke service just like Singer, they just don't advertise them as special runs of set numbers of similar spec. like these PS cars.



Wozy68

5,390 posts

170 months

Friday 6th July 2018
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fergus said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
'fools and their money' or 'emperor's new clothes' - take your pick........................
"Emperor's new clothes" please
Are we talking here about the PS Porsche, Tesla book value or both hehe

Cheib

23,248 posts

175 months

Friday 6th July 2018
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
Cheib said:
Nobody commissions a "hot rotted" or "restomod" etc in their right mind thinking they'll come out on top if they sell the car.....they might because the car market has gone up in general but such projects are ones that will generally cost you money. This is where Singer is different because they've created genuine brand value which is much the same with Eagle E-Types and also I suppose possibly with Alfaholics and their GTA-R cars.

Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
Autofarm and Tuthill's have both been doing it for years.....as a bespoke service just like Singer, they just don't advertise them as special runs of set numbers of similar spec. like these PS cars.
Yes I understand that and if I was looking for a car like this I wouldn't look beyond the two of them I think. Both hugely successful...probably depend what you were looking for from the car to decide which one you went with.

Upnorthgt3

605 posts

143 months

Saturday 7th July 2018
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......

The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.

They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
I don’t think I’m missing the point at all - the cost of purchasing these cars (complete) is significantly more than the build costs and yes, I have reaserched it because I like the look and am likewise not worried about book value in ten years time.

Maybe it’s more ‘fools and their money then’.......

Edit to add

Whilst I don’t think you can directly compare a Singer here (cost of materials used in construction are more ‘exotic’ significantly higher in the singer and I suspect build time is significantly longer), Singer definitely trade to some extent on brand strength, hence they can command a premium. Given the length of time they have been about, to create that degree of brand strength is truely impressive, probably Pagani ‘esque). Do you think PS has that brand strength (honest question, they’ve been around for a while), to warrant such sums for purchase?

Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Saturday 7th July 08:41

Koln-RS

3,864 posts

212 months

Saturday 7th July 2018
quotequote all
Upnorthgt3 said:
Do you think PS has that brand strength (honest question, they’ve been around for a while), to warrant such sums for purchase?
No. I don't think they have any brand strength.

These are just modified old cars. Look on the V5 it will tell you what it really is.

ttdan

1,091 posts

193 months

Saturday 7th July 2018
quotequote all
Upnorthgt3 said:
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......

The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.

They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
I don’t think I’m missing the point at all - the cost of purchasing these cars (complete) is significantly more than the build costs and yes, I have reaserched it because I like the look and am likewise not worried about book value in ten years time.

Maybe it’s more ‘fools and their money then’.......

Edit to add

Whilst I don’t think you can directly compare a Singer here (cost of materials used in construction are more ‘exotic’ significantly higher in the singer and I suspect build time is significantly longer), Singer definitely trade to some extent on brand strength, hence they can command a premium. Given the length of time they have been about, to create that degree of brand strength is truely impressive, probably Pagani ‘esque). Do you think PS has that brand strength (honest question, they’ve been around for a while), to warrant such sums for purchase?

Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Saturday 7th July 08:41
Whilst the likes of Singer do trade on a brand strength or equity its a fair bit more Porsche’s than theirs. As great as their cars are if it was the same depth of excellence applied to a Ford Fiesta it would not work. :-)

Steve Rance

5,446 posts

231 months

Sunday 8th July 2018
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I can’t help thinking that a 964 is probably nicer as a 964.

ttdan

1,091 posts

193 months

Sunday 8th July 2018
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think its fair. The Only reason the Singer cars are worth anything is the fact they are actually Porsches. Lets see how much they get for a Singer Ford Fiesta....

If the Singer was not a Porsche in the first place there’s no way they would get that additional premium so while its not unjustified on Singer terms it would not even exist without Porsche terms (Unless it was a Singer Ferrari :-))So, for me, they are totally trading on Porsche’s brand equity first and foremost. Their “product” would not exist without it.