Paul Stephens Le Mans Classic Clubsport
Discussion
its actually 'not that old a Porsche with a 'stuck on' duck tail'...........................exactly what I was saying - emperors new clothes - don't be sucked in by this tosh, these cars are being 'created' to exploit the market (and fair play to the company involved if they pull that off).
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.
They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.
They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
Cheib said:
Nobody commissions a "hot rotted" or "restomod" etc in their right mind thinking they'll come out on top if they sell the car.....they might because the car market has gone up in general but such projects are ones that will generally cost you money. This is where Singer is different because they've created genuine brand value which is much the same with Eagle E-Types and also I suppose possibly with Alfaholics and their GTA-R cars.
Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
Autofarm and Tuthill's have both been doing it for years.....as a bespoke service just like Singer, they just don't advertise them as special runs of set numbers of similar spec. like these PS cars.Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
aeropilot said:
Cheib said:
Nobody commissions a "hot rotted" or "restomod" etc in their right mind thinking they'll come out on top if they sell the car.....they might because the car market has gone up in general but such projects are ones that will generally cost you money. This is where Singer is different because they've created genuine brand value which is much the same with Eagle E-Types and also I suppose possibly with Alfaholics and their GTA-R cars.
Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
Autofarm and Tuthill's have both been doing it for years.....as a bespoke service just like Singer, they just don't advertise them as special runs of set numbers of similar spec. like these PS cars.Whether it's Paul Stephens or Theon there are a few companies trying to create said value around their brand. Be interesting to see if they succeed, I can't see it personally. Products don't look to be differentiated enough from the competition. My feeling is that if the likes of Tuthill or Autofarm tried they'd have more success as their businesses both have more gravitas and a longer standing expertise/reputation.
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.
They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
Maybe it’s more ‘fools and their money then’.......
Edit to add
Whilst I don’t think you can directly compare a Singer here (cost of materials used in construction are more ‘exotic’ significantly higher in the singer and I suspect build time is significantly longer), Singer definitely trade to some extent on brand strength, hence they can command a premium. Given the length of time they have been about, to create that degree of brand strength is truely impressive, probably Pagani ‘esque). Do you think PS has that brand strength (honest question, they’ve been around for a while), to warrant such sums for purchase?
Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Saturday 7th July 08:41
Upnorthgt3 said:
aeropilot said:
Upnorthgt3 said:
They may be created to a high standard, but you can buy an actual, real Porsche model which has been restored for the same money, which over a reasonable timeframe (outwith any current bubble) will still appreciate (even if its in 20 years) - I don't think you can say the same about these creations.
You seem to be missing the point......The people who these cars appeal to are not the same type of person who is interested in a factory original spec car or its investment potential.
They want a classic shape, but 'hot rodded' 911........ and probably aren't interested whether it will be worth 'X' or 'Y' in 10 years time.
Maybe it’s more ‘fools and their money then’.......
Edit to add
Whilst I don’t think you can directly compare a Singer here (cost of materials used in construction are more ‘exotic’ significantly higher in the singer and I suspect build time is significantly longer), Singer definitely trade to some extent on brand strength, hence they can command a premium. Given the length of time they have been about, to create that degree of brand strength is truely impressive, probably Pagani ‘esque). Do you think PS has that brand strength (honest question, they’ve been around for a while), to warrant such sums for purchase?
Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Saturday 7th July 08:41
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think its fair. The Only reason the Singer cars are worth anything is the fact they are actually Porsches. Lets see how much they get for a Singer Ford Fiesta.... If the Singer was not a Porsche in the first place there’s no way they would get that additional premium so while its not unjustified on Singer terms it would not even exist without Porsche terms (Unless it was a Singer Ferrari :-))So, for me, they are totally trading on Porsche’s brand equity first and foremost. Their “product” would not exist without it.
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